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#1069352 - 11/20/06 11:30 PM 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
GhostRider Offline

Posting Addict

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 15107
Loc: (Area of) Columbus, Ohio USA
What are the different axle ratios for 04+ CVPI?
What are the pros and cons?
Which is better?

Also, would traction lock/traction control (I am assuming its the same thing) be a positive in Ohio? I am mostly thinking in terms of winter.


Thanks in advance!
_________________________
-Tim

1997 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor (12-23-02 to 11-21-07)
2006 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor (7-11-07 to 8-31-13)
2013 Ford Taurus Limited (8-31-13 to Present)

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#1069353 - 11/20/06 11:53 PM Re: 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
cvpi71 Offline
Mr. Kozmo
Grand Poobah

Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 13886
Loc: member since 8/2001 lost in Ma...
traction lok and traction control are not the same thing, but if it's equipped with both then it's a great combination
_________________________

R.I.P Elfy 6/06
97 PI

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#1069354 - 11/21/06 10:07 AM Re: 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
GhostRider Offline

Posting Addict

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 15107
Loc: (Area of) Columbus, Ohio USA
Quote:

traction lok and traction control are not the same thing, but if it's equipped with both then it's a great combination


Can you explain the differences and what exactly they are?

Can you or anyone else answer the other questions? Thanks!
_________________________
-Tim

1997 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor (12-23-02 to 11-21-07)
2006 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor (7-11-07 to 8-31-13)
2013 Ford Taurus Limited (8-31-13 to Present)

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#1069355 - 11/21/06 11:26 AM Re: 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
bos20k Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 410
Loc: CT
Having an LSD or 'traction lok' means that when one of the rear wheels starts slipping the diff will lock the two of them together so they both turn at the same speed. That is a good thing in general but if you don't have traction control it can make the rear end swing around on you in slippery conditions if you aren't very careful.

Having traction control means that when one of the rear wheels start slipping the system applies the brakes to the slipping wheel to slow it down to the same speed as the other wheel that isn't. I believe the newer Vics (maybe the older ones too???) also have 'all speed traction control' which means it will also cut engine power to reduce slippage in certain situations.

Having either one is better than a plain open diff with no traction control. Having traction control by itself with good snow/ice tires would probably be enough for most people in the winter. Having both is the best you can get in a Vic.

For some reason I can't remember what the gear ratio should be for a newer CVPI. I know it's one of 3.27, 3.55 or 3.73. I would guess that it's 3.73 but I'm not sure...
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#1069356 - 11/21/06 01:51 PM Re: 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
ppap Offline
Rookie

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 68
Quote:

Having an LSD or 'traction lok' means that when one of the rear wheels starts slipping the diff will lock the two of them together so they both turn at the same speed. That is a good thing in general but if you don't have traction control it can make the rear end swing around on you in slippery conditions if you aren't very careful.




I'd like to add to this. The traditional Ford Traction Lok differential is configured with clutch and steel discs that provide friction whenever the axles rotate at a different rate from each other. This means they technically don't "lock" as the carrier is able to spin both axles whenever there is a torque difference between the axles that exceeds the friction of the discs. Over time, the discs wear out (mainly from going around corners) and it operates just like an open carrier.

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#1069357 - 11/21/06 02:52 PM Re: 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
GhostRider Offline

Posting Addict

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 15107
Loc: (Area of) Columbus, Ohio USA
I wonder what a dealer would charge to add Trac. Lock and Traction control?
_________________________
-Tim

1997 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor (12-23-02 to 11-21-07)
2006 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor (7-11-07 to 8-31-13)
2013 Ford Taurus Limited (8-31-13 to Present)

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#1069358 - 11/21/06 04:21 PM Re: 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
metroplex Offline
Metroplectic

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 49817
Loc: Motor City, USA
Quote:

I wonder what a dealer would charge to add Trac. Lock and Traction control?




It is usually a $87 to $250 factory option depending on the vehicle.

In terms of NEW parts, a new 28 spline 8.8" T-Lok carrier is about $200+. Start your price evaluation from there.

Doing burnouts, drifting, 360s, and getting on the gas in a corner will wear away the clutches faster. The mechanical LSDs are a better solution for auto-crossing but I can rebuild the clutches for $55-$100 within 30 minutes. A new Toyoda/Zexel/Gleason (whatever they want to call themselves) Torsen will run $400+.
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#1069359 - 11/21/06 06:42 PM Re: 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
GhostRider Offline

Posting Addict

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 15107
Loc: (Area of) Columbus, Ohio USA
Quote:

What are the different axle ratios for 04+ CVPI?
What are the pros and cons?
Which is better?




What about these questions?
_________________________
-Tim

1997 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor (12-23-02 to 11-21-07)
2006 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor (7-11-07 to 8-31-13)
2013 Ford Taurus Limited (8-31-13 to Present)

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#1069360 - 11/21/06 07:17 PM Re: 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
SteveS Offline

Administrator
Posting Addict

Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 15881
Loc: Groveland, MA
You do realize that each and every one of your questions has been discussed at length about a hundred times, right?
_________________________
Steve
**Boston SmartTraveler road unit 473**


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#1069361 - 11/21/06 07:49 PM Re: 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
gDMJoe Offline

Poobah

Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 7390
Loc: Timbuk3, MI
Quote:

SteveS - You do realize that each and every one of your questions has been discussed at length about a hundred times, right?



Oh god ... Don't use the S-word, lest the tirade commense.

*And you all know how unpleasant and uncomfortable that can be.
_________________________

-click the Vic-

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#1069362 - 11/21/06 10:29 PM Re: 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
dRock96Marquis Offline

Da Governator
Posting Addict

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 24351
Loc: Maryland
Quote:


What are the different axle ratios for 04+ CVPI?
What are the pros and cons?
Which is better?




1.) 3.27 std, 3.55 opt

2.)good, and gooder Slight reduction in gas mileage and top speed

3.) Depends on your taste and driving style. If mostly
highway, 3.27 like in your 97.



Quote:


I wonder what a dealer would charge to add Trac. Lock and Traction control?



Metro covered the Trac-lok well above.

Traction control cannot be added easily. You would need a new master cylinder w/ valve, new brake booster, new rear brake lines, new ABS HCU, new master cylinder to HCU lines, a Trac CNTRL equipped same year PCM, and a trac switch inside. If the car doesn't have ABS (all 03+ do, though), then forget it completely, as you would need to add the entire ABS system to the car.
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-'03 MB SL55 AMG (toy) -'08 MB GLK350 (d/d) -'95 Mark VIII (under renovations) -'02 Navigator ("beater")
-Panther info & FAQs-


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#1069363 - 11/21/06 10:29 PM Re: 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
cgarison Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 1566
Loc: Pennsyltucky
Quote:

I wonder what a dealer would charge to add Trac. Lock and Traction control?




There are better options than the TracLock differential that is offered by Ford. For dieharders who have losts of money, the Detroit Locker is by far superior to anything offered as stock.

Fot those who want to do something like this themselves, the PowerTrax by Richmond Gear is a superior device which replaces the spider gears in the carrier of an open differential.
_________________________
2009 Mercury Grand Marquis
Dual Exhaust
P71 Zip Tube
HPP Sway Bar

http://cgarison.blogspot.com

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#1069364 - 11/22/06 01:58 PM Re: 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
ppap Offline
Rookie

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 68
Quote:



There are better options than the TracLock differential that is offered by Ford. For dieharders who have losts of money, the Detroit Locker is by far superior to anything offered as stock.

Fot those who want to do something like this themselves, the PowerTrax by Richmond Gear is a superior device which replaces the spider gears in the carrier of an open differential.




Both the Detroit Locker carrier and PowerTrax unit are considered to act as "locking" differentials. For offroad use, they are far superior to the limited slip configurations as they'll always lock the axles regardless of traction however on the street, they can cause more problems than they solve. I'm running a Detroit Locker on my truck and the tires skip, scuff, bark, chatter, etc. around every corner whenever I apply torque. I also hear all sorts of clicking and banging noises whenever the carrier locks and unlocks. For a car that will never go offroad, a limited slip carrier is the best choice as its significantly quieter and much more predictable.

While the Ford Traction Lok carrier is inferior in durability and positive lock ratio (compared to other LSD's), it is cheap (compared to other LSD's) and significantly better than an open carrier. There are a variety of LSD's to choose from depending on how much you want to spend. Unless you plan to do some serious offroading with your car, a "locking" differential is a bad idea.

As a side note, Ford sometimes refers to its limited slip carriers as "lockers". Technically, they are not and the terminology causes confusion among those that do not know the difference.

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#1069365 - 11/22/06 07:45 PM Re: 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
cgarison Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 1566
Loc: Pennsyltucky
Yes, you are right about the Detroit being a true locker which I have seen in light offroad and racing applications.

The PowerTrax by Richmond Gear is a limited slip device that is more like the Ford Trac-Lock differential than a locker.


Quote:

The POWERTRAX® TRACTION SYSTEMS are the latest design in traction adding differential technology. It combines the smooth operation of a limited-slip differential, with the traction performance of a locking differential.

A precise synchronization mechanism eliminates the ratcheting sounds typical of other locking differentials. Special gear and spring design reduce the backlash and therefore driveline windup. Only ultra strength material is used which is 67% stronger than titanium.

Installation is simple because no ring and pinion set-up is required. In addition, no special tools or oils are needed. Step by step model specific instructions are provided with every kit.

The POWERTRAX® TRACTION SYSTEMS are the ideal solution for just about any light truck, sport utility, and muscle car on the road today. Whether you need the safety of added traction for daily commuting, recreation, work, or just so your muscle car puts power to the pavement instead of burning one wheel up, the POWERTRAX® TRACTION SYSTEMS are your answer.




From experience, any time power is taken away from the driveline, the PowerTrax releases. Yes, when you apply the power while cornering, you will make tire noise, but I did that with every factory LSD equipped vehicle I have driven. The good part of this traction device is that it is really the only aftermarket solution that is designed for use on pavement. The LockRite will shred itself over time leaving you with an open differential.
_________________________
2009 Mercury Grand Marquis
Dual Exhaust
P71 Zip Tube
HPP Sway Bar

http://cgarison.blogspot.com

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#1069366 - 11/22/06 10:58 PM Re: 04+ CVPI axle ?'s and traction lock question
ppap Offline
Rookie

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 68
Please let me clarify because you have misunderstood how the Powertrax units are configured. Powertrax currently makes 2 devices that provide traction to both axles. The LockRight and the "traction systems" which is a revised version of the LockRight that incorporates a minimal improvement in engagement and strength at a cost of an extra $100. As a side note, the "traction systems" unit used to be called "no-slip" but after some bad publicity regarding its durability, I suspect they changed the name to help revise its image. Both have been around for almost 10 years so there is nothing "new".

Both these units use your existing open or limited slip carrier, which explains why they cost so much less than a Detroit Locker, and merely replace the spider and side gears. They are commonly referred to as "lunchbox lockers" because of this configuration. Because of their use of the existing carrier case, they are also much weaker than the Detroit.

Now to the revised "traction systems" unit: its configuration is almost IDENTICAL to the LockRight. They both use couplers and drivers that are engaged by dog teeth however the "traction systems" unit uses synchro rings to make the engagement smoother. As far as operation, BOTH are unquestionably lockers. That means when they engage, even under severe offroad conditions (one wheel in the air, one wheel on solid ground - full traction one side NO traction on the other) the axles will be fully locked. There is NO limited slip differential that will operate under those conditions.

If you read the Powertrax posting, it doesn't state its a limited slip but that it operates as smoothly as one. On a side note, Lockers (whether they be cheap lunchbox or Detroit) are activated when torque is applied. If you go around a corner and coast through it, the locker will NOT engage. Likewise, when you have a suspended housing and spin one wheel, the other side will not turn unlike a limited slip differential which will have both wheels spinning in the same direction. A limited slip differential is always applying pressure to keep both axles together regardless of whether torque is applied. This pressure or friction between the axles can eventually be overcome (offroad example from above, coasting through a corner, etc.) with enough of a torque difference between the two sides. Both of the Powertrax units will NOT disengage regardless of the conditions when torque is applied.

All you have to do is look at the pictures of each unit posted on the Powertrax website and realize they are almost identical.

I have spent a lot of time and money working on differentials for offroad applications. Trust me when I tell you both these units are made for trucks and modified drivetrains that exceed the torque characteristics of limited slip differentials. 99.99% of the Crown Vic owners are better suited for a limited slip carrier than either of these because of their driving properties on the street.

Regarding the limited slip carriers, there are a variety of specifications. While Ford's Traction Lok (without the heavy duty spring and extra disc mod) is definitely the weakest configuration, it is still significantly better than an open carrier and more than suitable for daily street driving and infrequent burnout.

Here is a pic of the Powertrax "traction systems" unit. Once those dog teeth engage, they are locked until torque is no longer applied.

traction systems


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