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#1115760 - 01/29/07 12:37 PM 429/460 swap into a vic
bb ford man Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 13
hi guys.....my first post in here, and it's kind of a dusey....I've done a huge amount of searching in here, and have yet to find any clear answers on this subject so here goes...

first and foremost, I have a 460, and a 429...both of them just begging for a new home....I also have an 85 2 door CV that needs an attitude adjustment....so I've decided the vic is going to get a big block

this leads me to the point of this post....What do I HAVE to do in order to make this swap happen?....and who makes the parts? I am plenty capable of fabricating just about anything i may need to during the process....but I'm quite sure some things are better to spend money on, than to invest the time fabbing them up......

another thing I'm curious about, is if you had both motors as I do......which would you transplant into the vic?....the 429, or the 460?

my mind is made up on the bigblock swap, so please, please, please....dont bother suggesting building a smallblock for the car....also what are the biggest 15" tires that will fit in the rear wheelwells without tire rub? I'll back half the car if absolutely nessecary...but not if I dont have to...I want to keep the car somewhat stock appearing with the exception of some decent wheels and a cowl induction hood...

anyway thanx for your time, and I look forward to spending some time in here

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#1115761 - 01/29/07 01:25 PM Re: 429/460 swap into a vic
AOD Offline

Grand Poobah

Registered: 12/06/00
Posts: 11494
Loc: Asheville, North Carolina
Aren't the 429 and 460 the same block? I'd go with whatever is going to have the most parts available for it, which will typically lower the price of the parts.

Personally, I've always liked the 429 CobraJet.

There is one guy here who has done a 460 swap into his 90-91 Crown Victoria. His name is Ed, but I can't remember his posting name on here. He may not come around that often...

Glad to see another 2-door CV owner, welcome!

~Adam
_________________________

'85 2-Door Crown Victoria - Faster than the Sig Police!
302 HO, -0.022" E7 Heads, Weiand Intake, Edelbrock 1406 Carb, Mechanical Fuel Pump, HEI Distributor, 180* T-stat, Shift Kit, HO Governor, Lokar Cables, B&M Torq Master Converter, FRPP Trans Cooler, Mustang Headers, 2.25" Dual Exhaust, Flowtech H-pipe, Hooker AeroChamber Mufflers, 2.5" Side-Exit Exhaust, Police Shocks, Cut PI Front Springs in the Rear, PI Rear Sway Bar, 17" Sport Wheels, 245/50/Z17 Tires, 4.10 Rear End Gears, Trac Lok Diff
'05 Crown Victoria LX Sport '02 Jeep Liberty '95 Mazda Miata '82 Honda MB5 Motorcycle

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#1115762 - 01/29/07 01:34 PM Re: 429/460 swap into a vic
88grandmarq Offline

4R70W rebuilder
Poobah

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 5528
Loc: North Georgia
_________________________
2006 F-250 XLT SuperCab 4wd - 6.0L Diesel, 5R110W Auto, 3.73 limited slip.
Retired U.S. Border Patrol Unit# K60012

2003 Lincoln Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 09/2011
89 Crown Victoria LX- HPP Box - SOLD 09/2010
88 Grand Marquis LS - The original - Totaled 5/2006

I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E Transmissions, check out my Facebook page for my latest project; https://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Georgia-Transmission-Auto-Repair/348414635312478

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#1115763 - 01/29/07 01:35 PM Re: 429/460 swap into a vic
bb ford man Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 13
hey AOD...thanx for the welcome......as far as I know the 429 and the 460 do share the same block.....they do in fact have the same bore, it's the stroke that is different....I'd have to check the main journals to verify first hand wether or not the cranks will interchange....the 2dr is pretty rough at the moment...needing a new bumper, and a fender, a couple of other misc. dents and dings fixed, and some new interior pieces....but hey, I've got 200 bux in the ol' girl ....now it's time to do some work, and get her running the way Ford ment her to.

p.s. food for thought....I live in kansas which means no stringent emissions testing....yeah, the gloves are off

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#1115764 - 01/29/07 01:39 PM Re: 429/460 swap into a vic
bb ford man Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 13
Quote:

I did quick search and found these posts:

http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB17&Number=720278&page=3&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB17&Number=751276&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Ray and Ed (93Marquis & 1FSTCAT)are the 2 you want to contact as they did the swap




hey....now we're getting somewhere.....thanx for the links....anybody else with thoughts on how this is gonna work, or things to watch for....feel free to add them

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#1115765 - 01/29/07 01:51 PM Re: 429/460 swap into a vic
Darkwriter77 Offline
Climber

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 514
Loc: Savannah, MO
I'd go for the 460, myself. Might as well have the extra cubes, and 460 parts tend to be just a little more easier to grab than those for a 429.

Longtube headers are going to be a problem, as a lot of folks have a hard time even managing to fit them onto a small-block Ford motor, let along a big-block. Might even be limited to a set of OEM-style exhaust logs to clear things like the steering shaft.

Motor mounts will probably have to be fab'ed. Bolt a good C6 behind the 460, probably need a custom driveshaft, and nothing higher than 3.55 gears in the back. Hood clearance is probably going to be a problem, too, depending on what kind of intake and air cleaner you're using - plan on either cutting a hole in the hood and/or fab'ing some kind of cowl or scoop for the hood to make it clear. An electrical fan up front is probably going to be a necessity for forward clearance reasons (I wouldn't recommend even attempting one of those flex fans, they're garbage), and if you do go that route, you'll need a decent alternator to back that up ... but I'm not sure how or if a 3G 130-amp alternator will bolt onto a 460's bracket arrangement. (Might be able to just find a universal high-output one-wire alt to throw on there and make that work.) I'd also look into picking up a better radiator than the stock unit, as that thing's only modestly adequate for even a stock 302.

Sorry I can't give too many specifics, as this isn't a very common swap you're attempting, but best of luck to ya'! Definitely post pics of whatever progress you make on it. We like eye candy.
_________________________
CURRENT:
1992 Chevrolet S10 Blazer 4x4 2DR, "Bubba Chubb" - 233k miles and still ticking (barely)

PAST:
1994 Ford Crown Victoria P71, "Friday" (SOLD, circa 2002)
1990 Lincoln Town Car, "Phat Bastard" - 200k+ miles on original motor/tranny (SOLD, circa 2006)

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#1115766 - 01/29/07 02:44 PM Re: 429/460 swap into a vic
bb ford man Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 13
yeah.....I'm sure headers wont be an easy fix, but I'll get to that in due time....as far as accessories being run on the motor.....water pump, alternator, and power steering.....I may even delete the power steering if I can find a manual steering box that will work on the car.....of course, turning the front wheels via "armstrong" steering might kinda suck with 700 lbs hanging over the top of them....but who cares...this things going together for one purpose.....1320 feet in a straight line, as fast as it can get there. I had already anticipated the hood clearance and cooling issues, and when the time comes, a large cowl induction scoop is going to be grafted onto the hood, as will a nicer radiator with electric fans..but first things first the ground needs to dry up a bit, so I can get my car out of it's current storage area, and get started on the old girl.....

a couple of things I'm curious about while I'm thinking about it...

1) did any of these cars come out WITHOUT air conditioning? I want to keep the heater, but hopefully without that huge hunk of plastic in the engine bay...all of the vics/marquis I've ever seen had AC

2) any ideas what manual boxes may fit the car?

3) I have a 460 bolted up to a tranny...it came from a van (rear sump YAY!!) I'm having some trouble identifying the trans bolted to it....it's either a c6 or an FMX I think...how would I tell for sure?

eventually I'll get a project outline figured out, so I dont stray from my original purpose for the car.....just need some dry weather so I can get this show on the road

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#1115767 - 01/29/07 02:55 PM Re: 429/460 swap into a vic
88grandmarq Offline

4R70W rebuilder
Poobah

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 5528
Loc: North Georgia
read the thread in the first link I posted, Ed mentions finding some conversion motor mounts on E-bay. you should probably PM him for more info.
_________________________
2006 F-250 XLT SuperCab 4wd - 6.0L Diesel, 5R110W Auto, 3.73 limited slip.
Retired U.S. Border Patrol Unit# K60012

2003 Lincoln Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 09/2011
89 Crown Victoria LX- HPP Box - SOLD 09/2010
88 Grand Marquis LS - The original - Totaled 5/2006

I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E Transmissions, check out my Facebook page for my latest project; https://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Georgia-Transmission-Auto-Repair/348414635312478

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#1115768 - 01/29/07 03:06 PM Re: 429/460 swap into a vic
bb ford man Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 13
Quote:

read the thread in the first link I posted, Ed mentions finding some conversion motor mounts on E-bay. you should probably PM him for more info.




one step ahead of ya there, but thanx for the suggestion

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#1115769 - 01/29/07 03:14 PM Re: 429/460 swap into a vic
Cowtown Cowboy Offline
Climber

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 799
Loc: Calgary Alberta Canada
Police models came without air but still have the plenum for the A/C evaporator. It could be cut away easy enough.
The van oil pan doesn't quite fit. Get an aftermarket pan for a 460 into Fox Mustang swap.
No manual boxes at all. Never available without power steering, maybe something else could be made to fit.
The transmission is a C6, which is the only auto ever offered behind a Lima series engine. There are some Lima pattern FMX's out there but they are from 351M applications. There's lots available for the C6. To go manual, it would probably be easier to go aftermarket for everything rather than trying to track down old and rare factory parts. You just don't see a lot of 429 4-speed XL's getting parted out.
As far as the engine itself, I'd use the 429 heads on the 460 block or put a stroker crank in the 429. Aluminum heads on the 460 would save about 80lbs too.


Edited by Cowtown Cowboy (01/29/07 03:17 PM)
_________________________
1984 LTD CV ex-RCMP unit #606, currently being rebuilt in the Twilight Zone, returning later...

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#1115770 - 01/29/07 03:23 PM Re: 429/460 swap into a vic
bb ford man Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 13
cowboy...thats my exact line of thinking....optimally, I would LOVE to back this with a manual....but when I have a fresh trans bolted behind the 460 already, the cost of finding a manual trans, plus the required fabrication involved to make it work....gets blown out of the water with the mere cost of adding a "stall" converter and shift kit to a trans I already have...

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#1115771 - 01/29/07 03:29 PM Re: 429/460 swap into a vic
Cowtown Cowboy Offline
Climber

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 799
Loc: Calgary Alberta Canada
Yeah, heck if you did have all of the factory parts, you could sell them and pay for most of the engine swap, too.
_________________________
1984 LTD CV ex-RCMP unit #606, currently being rebuilt in the Twilight Zone, returning later...

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#1115772 - 01/29/07 03:31 PM Re: 429/460 swap into a vic
Patrick Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/06
Posts: 180
Loc: Oakum Harbor, Oh!
Is the 429 an FE 429 or does it have the same trans bolt pattern as your 460? If it's the same as the 460 then use the 460. Get a real set of heads for it and a better cam. Step up to a set of pistons and shoot for 9:1 compression with a mild cam. You want to be able to have heat right? This is where a smoother cam comes in. You'd need a HUGE vacuum cannister to hold enough to keep the heat on the floor at idle with a lumpy cam. You can find plenty of cams with a decent amount of lift and a smoother idle.

Transmission is a C6, no doubt about it. It should have a square pan with one corner notched out of it. The most bullet proof and reliable transmission on the planet. You can rebuild it in your garage for $300, that includes a book and transmission fluid. Trust me if my little bro can rebuild a GM 700R4 in an afternoon (he's 20 years old) you should be able to do a C6 no sweat. It's very doable, try to find a '77 or '78 LTD or Grand Marquis with a 460 to rob things like the motor mounts from. They did share the same frame to an extent.
_________________________
1991 Grand Marquis - The Blue Bomber

1979 LTD 351w/c4 - The Beast (R.I.P. scrapped to buy tires for The Blue Bomber)

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#1115773 - 01/29/07 03:54 PM Re: 429/460 swap into a vic
bb ford man Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 13
patrick.....It's been a little while since I was out looking at the two....but I do remember that the 429 looked identical to the 460....

my plans as of right now are to get this monster in the car, and get the car running around while I work the bugs out of the car, and rebuild a fresh bullet for the car....I'm thinking a little more along the lines of 10-10.5:1 flattops, a healthy solid lifter cam, aluminum heads, and finally an intake/carb combo to match the curve of the cam....nothing too extreme really, but a fresh mill with a little more grunt.

as far as the heater goes...I want it for one reason....the defroster..as long as that works, I'll be happy. The car will see little no time in inclimate weather, but I do want to see should there be a sudden downpour "mid-cruise"

on the C6 transmission...you are quite right, they aren't anything to be afraid of rebuilding...for that matter no automatic transmission, or transaxle really is....once you've rebuilt a few, you get the hang of em...the important thing is to keep everything clean

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#1115774 - 01/29/07 04:41 PM Re: 429/460 swap into a vic
Black & Flames Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 1692
Loc: St-Jerome Qc Canada J7Z6W2
Quote:

did any of these cars come out WITHOUT air conditioning? I want to keep the heater, but hopefully without that huge hunk of plastic in the engine bay...all of the vics/marquis I've ever seen had AC




They all come with the huge plastic box... But it`s possible to fix that with plexiglass, heat, eurethane and creativity!







_________________________
rules
"Oversteer is when the passenger is scared"
"Understeer is when the driver is scared"

Well... My passengers are always scared !

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