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#1156136 - 03/27/07 06:47 PM 302 to 351
3Fords Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/02
Posts: 141
Loc: Tennessee
Bad news: The 302 in the 81 is on its last legs - horrible noise in the bottom end.

Good news: There is a guy with a 351w (out of a 74 pick up) willing to sell cheap.

What will have to be changed? I don't have the knowledge or a place to do the work, so I'll have to pay someone. I'm trying to get a feeling for what the nickel and dime costs are going to run.

I'm going to go hear it run tomorrow, and if it's not sounding bad and the swap costs are reasonable, buy it.

Thanks for all advice and comments.

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#1156138 - 03/27/07 06:55 PM Re: 302 to 351 [Re: 3Fords]
Mercracer Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 4146
Loc: Green Bay
Motor mounts and flexplate should be the same. The oil pan is different. You would have to do something with your accy brackets if you have AC. Is the 81 a carb?
_________________________
2002 P71 Spruce Green
2002 P71 Arizona Beige

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#1156143 - 03/27/07 07:00 PM Re: 302 to 351 [Re: Mercracer]
DuceAnAHalf Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 3147
Loc: Pinellas Park, Fl.
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#1156316 - 03/27/07 10:14 PM Re: 302 to 351 [Re: DuceAnAHalf]
3Fords Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/02
Posts: 141
Loc: Tennessee
Merc - the 81 currently has an Edelbrock intake and 600cfm carb. I'd like to stay with a 302 so I could use this setup, but the price is right for the 351.

Duce - tanks for the link.

Another Q: what sort of trans linkage issues? The 81 is AOD and I would like to keep it. The 351w has a stock Ford 2 barrel, so I assume no linkage for kick down rod or cable.

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#1156499 - 03/28/07 02:14 AM Re: 302 to 351 [Re: 3Fords]
Cowtown Cowboy Offline
Climber

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 799
Loc: Calgary Alberta Canada
There are a lot of differences in the timing cover, waterpump and accessory mountings between trucks and cars.
However all of it from your 302 will fit the 351. It just entails stripping 2 engines, cleaning all the parts and probably fixing some broken timing cover bolts as they are notorious for rusting and breaking off. And yes you'll need the aforementioned oilpan, as well as some minor exhaust mods and make sure to check the flexplate as all of the 351's are 28 oz imbalance and the later 302's are 50 oz.
The transmission throttle rod should hook up directly to the Motorcraft 2-bbl carb though.
Unless you can do some of the work yourself like strip the 351 and clean all the old gaskets and stuff, I see this as an expensive proposition because by the time it's all done as they will most likely end up transferring a bunch of parts. Which means they have take off the other parts first. Works out to about 1-1/2 times more work. And then, this would be a really good time to replace that 33 year old timing chain (use a pre-72 crank sprocket) and so on.

On the plus side, it would have way more power.....
_________________________
1984 LTD CV ex-RCMP unit #606, currently being rebuilt in the Twilight Zone, returning later...

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#1159514 - 04/01/07 01:47 PM Re: 302 to 351 [Re: Cowtown Cowboy]
Tiggie Offline
Climber

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 846
Loc: Moneta, VA
 Originally Posted By: Cowtown Cowboy
The transmission throttle rod should hook up directly to the Motorcraft 2-bbl carb though.


Not the one's I've seen. But if he's got an Edelbrock on there right now, something has already been changed.
_________________________
1982 LTD Crown Victoria - 302/VV, WR-AOD, Slicktop Conversion SOLD 06/07/08
1988 Crown Victoria LTD Wagon - Accidentally Tu-Tone, Dual 'Packs on Modified Sedan Tails


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#1160207 - 04/02/07 10:51 AM Re: 302 to 351 [Re: Tiggie]
Cowtown Cowboy Offline
Climber

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 799
Loc: Calgary Alberta Canada
 Originally Posted By: Tiggie
 Originally Posted By: Cowtown Cowboy
The transmission throttle rod should hook up directly to the Motorcraft 2-bbl carb though.


Not the one's I've seen. But if he's got an Edelbrock on there right now, something has already been changed.


The Edelbrock is on the existing 302. The possible 351 replacement still has a Motorcraft 2 bbl.
Depending on whether his AOD uses a rod or a cable, the rod usually slides right on to the kickdown lever on the 2 bbl. Sometimes a little clean up of the bushing is necessary.
With a manifold swap that can use the Edelbrock carb, the existing linkage could be re-used with a bit of tweaking due to the higher carb mounting.
_________________________
1984 LTD CV ex-RCMP unit #606, currently being rebuilt in the Twilight Zone, returning later...

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#1160239 - 04/02/07 11:45 AM Re: 302 to 351 [Re: Cowtown Cowboy]
Tiggie Offline
Climber

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 846
Loc: Moneta, VA
 Originally Posted By: Cowtown Cowboy


The Edelbrock is on the existing 302. The possible 351 replacement still has a Motorcraft 2 bbl.
Depending on whether his AOD uses a rod or a cable, the rod usually slides right on to the kickdown lever on the 2 bbl. Sometimes a little clean up of the bushing is necessary.
With a manifold swap that can use the Edelbrock carb, the existing linkage could be re-used with a bit of tweaking due to the higher carb mounting.


Interesting. I will have to check into this. All the Motorcraft 2-bbls that didn't come with AOD's I've had next to my VV wouldn't allow the mounting of the TV rod. Those that had a space to put it wouldn't have kept the proper geometry. What carb's have you seen that would allow this? I'm interesting in buying one :), my VV just ain't cuttin' it .

I think we are missing the bigger picture here. If it's a '74 model truck, it wouldn't have had a 351W or any 351. If you wanted something larger than the 302, the next step up was the 360 FE. F-Series didn't get a 351W until 1980. 3Fords, do you have any more info on the engine. Look for an Engine ID tag, I think they were usually mounted near the intake manifold, I don't remember exactly. Casting numbers from the block would be somewhat helpful too.
_________________________
1982 LTD Crown Victoria - 302/VV, WR-AOD, Slicktop Conversion SOLD 06/07/08
1988 Crown Victoria LTD Wagon - Accidentally Tu-Tone, Dual 'Packs on Modified Sedan Tails


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#1160369 - 04/02/07 02:41 PM Re: 302 to 351 [Re: Tiggie]
Cowtown Cowboy Offline
Climber

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 799
Loc: Calgary Alberta Canada
Autoline Rebuilders in Winnipeg used to offer a conversion carb to replace VV's that was a bolt on except for some slight air cleaner mods.
As far as connecting the AOD throttle rod, I dunno, I had them connected to a Motorcraft and a Holley 2 bbl and both seemed to work fine.

But as to the bigger question, yeah, you're right. 360's and 390's were common in pick ups and then the 351M and 400's in the later 70's. Hmmm, could this "351" actually be a 302? Or was it an engine swap?
_________________________
1984 LTD CV ex-RCMP unit #606, currently being rebuilt in the Twilight Zone, returning later...

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#1160553 - 04/02/07 07:20 PM Re: 302 to 351 [Re: Cowtown Cowboy]
gadget73 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 328
Loc: New Jersey
I think the only bolt-on factory 2v AOD setup are likely early box fox Tbirds. I think 81 or 82. Probably Canadian models as well, since they had a real 2v till 1985.
_________________________
86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica). 5.0 HO, big brakes, rear disc, poly bushings, and a new vinyl top.

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#1160563 - 04/02/07 07:35 PM Re: 302 to 351 [Re: gadget73]
3Fords Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/02
Posts: 141
Loc: Tennessee
Tiggie - you hit the nail smack on the head. We went to look at the 302 and it was a 360bb. So, the search for an inexpensive, decent sounding 302 continues.

As a side note, the 81 has the TV rod and it links up nicely to the Edelbrock 600. I am really going to try and find a 302, just to minimize the difficulties.

BTW - I took it out today and in the 80 degree bumper-to-bumper traffic, it got hot very quick and sounded so bad I went back home.

Do you think 15w-40 or 20w-50 will help me get a few more miles out of it? If my wife is gone, I'm stuck at home ):

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#1161005 - 04/03/07 01:30 PM Re: 302 to 351 [Re: 3Fords]
Tiggie Offline
Climber

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 846
Loc: Moneta, VA
HeHe I say drop the 360 in there \:\) . Prolly a little more work than it's work lol.

When did the noise develop? More importantly, why did the noise develop? Do you have any kind of oil pressure at any time? It does have proper levels of oil and coolant, correct?

Dump some Lucas and 20W-50 and that may let you drive it around town. It's gonna spin and bearing and lock up sooner or later if it's heating up like that. That's oil starvation.
_________________________
1982 LTD Crown Victoria - 302/VV, WR-AOD, Slicktop Conversion SOLD 06/07/08
1988 Crown Victoria LTD Wagon - Accidentally Tu-Tone, Dual 'Packs on Modified Sedan Tails


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#1161178 - 04/03/07 05:47 PM Re: 302 to 351 [Re: Tiggie]
3Fords Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/02
Posts: 141
Loc: Tennessee
It's made a little noise over the last year, but it was very noticeable the first few warm days we had back in Feb. I drove it around one day for several hours and at one point jumped on it pretty good to get around traffic. That was the first it sounded real loud.

I drove it early this morning with no AC and no stop-and-go traffic and it was hardly noticeable. The oil and coolant are both good. The only idea that came to my mind was one cold day in Jan my choke acted up and I was blowing black smoke as I drove. I may have washed out the bearings in gas that day. But it did not make noise that I recall.

I'm passing on the 360 and I hope to find a good 302 soon.

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#1178960 - 04/29/07 11:21 AM Re: 302 to 351 [Re: 3Fords]
3Fords Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/02
Posts: 141
Loc: Tennessee
Update - I put 1/2 down on a used 88 302 and AOD from a CV yesterday. The guy I bought it from said it blows a little blue smoke at higher rpms, but it should get me by for now. I'll give him the other 1/2 of the $300 when he drops it off tomorrow.

Sad but true - don't read if your squeamish about CVs! He runs demo derby with CVs. He just bought 5 from the local taxi company, and has a few others. He likes the 90+ CV because of the reinforced frame.

He says the Fords have it all over Chevy with the frames, but that Chevy motors and axles are better, so he rips the motors out of the CVs and welds in Chevy 350s! His claim is a lot of the derby guys do the same.

I guess it all worked out for me. I'll post when it's up and running.

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#1179943 - 04/30/07 08:38 PM Re: 302 to 351 [Re: 3Fords]
3Fords Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/02
Posts: 141
Loc: Tennessee
[shaking head] Chevy guys. The guy brought the motor today. He thought it was a CFI 302, but it's a 351 with the VV carb.

I bought it anyway. He did a good job pulling it - all accessories attached and the hoses aren't cut. Now I'm looking for a 4bb manifold so I can still use my Edelbrock 600.

Anyone have a manifold for sale/trade?

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