#1144385 - 03/09/07 10:18 AM
Re: question about mini spool
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98VicP71
223 RWHP/ 257 RWTQ
Grand Poobah
Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 10458
Loc: ATL
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a spool is not a good idea on a street driven car. They don't like it when you take a turn and it is possible to break teeth on a spider gear or other components in the diff. Spools are designed for high power trailered track cars. I would say stick with a t-loc so you don't run into any issues.
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1993 Lincoln Town Car 150k+ - Stock 1998 Ford Crown Victoria P71 - RIP 12/25/2006 2001 Ford Crown Victoria P71(Count blackula) 160k+ - Ummmmmm 
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#1144387 - 03/09/07 11:17 AM
Re: question about mini spool
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Steve83
Poobah
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7342
Loc: Memphis, TN 38002, USA, Earth,...
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Quote:
a spool ... possible to break teeth on a spider gear or other components in the diff.
A spool doesn't have spider gears, or other components because it's not a diff at all.
Read this post & the links in it.
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#1144390 - 03/09/07 02:22 PM
Re: question about mini spool
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ppap
Rookie
Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 68
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Quote:
a spool is not a good idea on a street driven car. They don't like it when you take a turn and it is possible to break teeth on a spider gear or other components in the diff. Spools are designed for high power trailered track cars. I would say stick with a t-loc so you don't run into any issues.
I think I've lectured you on this topic before? Let me try again since you didn't learn the last time... Lockers and spools do NOT damage differential components. (As mentioned above, learn about the components associated with spools and lockers before making stupid comments) Damage only occurs when the carriers aren't installed correctly or if subjected to abuse, which would occur with an open carrier as well. The only reason lockers and spools aren't put on street vehicles is because inexperienced drivers have the potential to end up losing control of their vehicle under slippery conditions, i.e. rain, snow, ice.
I'm running a Detroit Locker on my ZR2, which stays locked whenever torque is applied (95% of the time in motion) and I haven't even come close to damaging anything. As far as tire wear, unless you plan to do donuts all the time, its negligible. You may actually save some tread wear because of the decreased ability to spin both wheels. I have close to 70k miles on original BFG AT's and there is still plenty of tread left.
The only other differences I've noticed is that tight corners under throttle sometimes cause the inside wheel to chirp or shudder until the turn is complete. If you can deal with this and are able to maintain control under slippery conditions, a spool is fine. In my opinion, a Ford limited slip carrier is just as easy to install, relatively cheap and behaves better on pavement. That's why its so popular.
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#1144392 - 03/09/07 04:12 PM
Re: question about mini spool
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dRock96Marquis
Da Governator
Posting Addict
Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 23849
Loc: Frederick County, MD
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Stick with a Track-lok - it is the best option for most panthers.
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#1144393 - 03/10/07 06:58 PM
Re: question about mini spool
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PANZERSCHRECK!
Card Carrying
Member
Registered: 03/06/07
Posts: 184
Loc: Kent, Ohio, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
a spool is not a good idea on a street driven car. They don't like it when you take a turn and it is possible to break teeth on a spider gear or other components in the diff. Spools are designed for high power trailered track cars. I would say stick with a t-loc so you don't run into any issues.
I think I've lectured you on this topic before? Let me try again since you didn't learn the last time... Lockers and spools do NOT damage differential components. (As mentioned above, learn about the components associated with spools and lockers before making stupid comments) Damage only occurs when the carriers aren't installed correctly or if subjected to abuse, which would occur with an open carrier as well. The only reason lockers and spools aren't put on street vehicles is because inexperienced drivers have the potential to end up losing control of their vehicle under slippery conditions, i.e. rain, snow, ice.
I'm running a Detroit Locker on my ZR2, which stays locked whenever torque is applied (95% of the time in motion) and I haven't even come close to damaging anything. As far as tire wear, unless you plan to do donuts all the time, its negligible. You may actually save some tread wear because of the decreased ability to spin both wheels. I have close to 70k miles on original BFG AT's and there is still plenty of tread left.
The only other differences I've noticed is that tight corners under throttle sometimes cause the inside wheel to chirp or shudder until the turn is complete. If you can deal with this and are able to maintain control under slippery conditions, a spool is fine. In my opinion, a Ford limited slip carrier is just as easy to install, relatively cheap and behaves better on pavement. That's why its so popular.
First of all, what's up with that attitude, "Professor"? I think you may want to further YOUR education on this subject.
Secondly, in my opinion, spools and lockers are not intended for street use for various, extremely important reasons! I usually call or e-mail the manufacturers of the products I'm considering and talk to their tech or engineering departments. I think it's always good to get a professional, experienced opinion when making such important and potentially dangerous decisions. I would approach all advice found on this or any message board,(Including this and any of my posts!) with caution. After all, you never truly know the qualifications of the source!
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WARNING! The above statement and all statements posted by this user are merely his opinion and are for entertainment purposes only. No information provided by this user should be taken as advice or instruction, or even considered necessarily correct. Consult an expert in the subject before drawing your own conclusions.
1995 Crown Vic P74, HPP, Medium Willow Green, stock, with a Sniper tune! Other Rides: 1998 Mustang GT, Rio Red Clearcoat, MANY modifications!, 1978 Chrysler Lebaron, silver, for sale or scrap!, 1982 Honda CM450E, customized, custom paint!, Brand New '07 Victory Vegas 8-Ball!
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#1144394 - 03/11/07 01:42 AM
Re: question about mini spool
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ppap
Rookie
Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 68
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Quote:
First of all, what's up with that attitude, "Professor"? I think you may want to further YOUR education on this subject.
Secondly, in my opinion, spools and lockers are not intended for street use for various, extremely important reasons! I usually call or e-mail the manufacturers of the products I'm considering and talk to their tech or engineering departments. I think it's always good to get a professional, experienced opinion when making such important and potentially dangerous decisions. I would approach all advice found on this or any message board,(Including this and any of my posts!) with caution. After all, you never truly know the qualifications of the source!
Where do I start with your comment since you missed the point? My post was aimed at 98vicP71. He stated that spools cause components within a differential, such as spider gears and "other components", to break. As stated earlier, spools and lockers do NOT contain spider or side gears so how is it not possible to break them? This is the same guy who posted a similar comment a few months ago based on his uncle's experience with a LSD that was used on a "1000 hp" Chevrolet for racing applications.
Can you further elaborate on your statement "spools and lockers are not intended for street use for various, extremely important reasons!"? The part about "extremely important reasons" is very vague and indicates your lack of understanding.
As far as education, I have been working on differentials for years specifically Fords and GM's. I have a BS in Engineering and am ASE A3 certified. I have run numerous LSD and locked configurations for both street and offroad applications. While I don't claim to know everything about differentials, I DO know what applications they are used for and how they work.
One point I agree with you on, my attitude was a bit critical. Very similar to your response. 
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#1144395 - 03/12/07 02:16 AM
Re: question about mini spool
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PANZERSCHRECK!
Card Carrying
Member
Registered: 03/06/07
Posts: 184
Loc: Kent, Ohio, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
First of all, what's up with that attitude, "Professor"? I think you may want to further YOUR education on this subject.
Secondly, in my opinion, spools and lockers are not intended for street use for various, extremely important reasons! I usually call or e-mail the manufacturers of the products I'm considering and talk to their tech or engineering departments. I think it's always good to get a professional, experienced opinion when making such important and potentially dangerous decisions. I would approach all advice found on this or any message board,(Including this and any of my posts!) with caution. After all, you never truly know the qualifications of the source!
Where do I start with your comment since you missed the point? My post was aimed at 98vicP71. He stated that spools cause components within a differential, such as spider gears and "other components", to break. As stated earlier, spools and lockers do NOT contain spider or side gears so how is it not possible to break them? This is the same guy who posted a similar comment a few months ago based on his uncle's experience with a LSD that was used on a "1000 hp" Chevrolet for racing applications.
Can you further elaborate on your statement "spools and lockers are not intended for street use for various, extremely important reasons!"? The part about "extremely important reasons" is very vague and indicates your lack of understanding.
As far as education, I have been working on differentials for years specifically Fords and GM's. I have a BS in Engineering and am ASE A3 certified. I have run numerous LSD and locked configurations for both street and offroad applications. While I don't claim to know everything about differentials, I DO know what applications they are used for and how they work.
One point I agree with you on, my attitude was a bit critical. Very similar to your response.
While I do agree that we probably both need to curb our attitudes, I was offended by you attack on the other member. It was harsh and pretentious. Let's try and keep it friendly. After all, we're all here for the same reasons, and not everybody has the benefit of full understanding of all things mechanical.
However, that is where our opinions diverge.
My vagueness was intentional, in order to avoid typing pages of explanation, that frankly, I don’t feel either of us are qualified to give.
However, I still disagree with your assertion that a mini spool, or full spool are OK for street use. And this is how I arrive at my opinion. I, too, have extensive training and experience in the automotive field. I, too, have a very good knowledge of the inner workings of a differential, spool, and mini spool. I have intimate knowledge of the 8.8 Ford axle. I speak with manufacturers of these types of pieces on a very regular basis. I have seen, first hand, what happens to axles and spools when they are used in a street environment. It's not pretty. Also, as I'm sure you know, since you have the engineering degree, "stock" type axle shafts in a production vehicle are usually case hardened and not through hardened. Therefore, a small amount of the outside metal is heat treated, while the center majority of the shaft is relatively soft. This, in an open or limited slip differential, allows the shaft to "twist" and absorb impact and torsion, and helps avoid axle shaft breakage. Well, this, coupled with the forces exerted on the outside wheel assembly in a tight turn while the axles are locked together, time and time again, causes the axle shafts to absorb the force that is not released through tire slippage. This fatigues the metal, eventually leading to the axle shaft failing. Since you claim to have experience with on and off road applications, you undoubtedly know that spools are designed to be used with aftermarket race type axle shafts, which are usually through hardened, and designed for such off road purposes. If, however, you try to run these through hardened axles on the street, they will break because the through hardening makes them too brittle to absorb the lateral and vertical forces caused by potholes, tight turns and differential forces. These components are not designed for longevity. They're designed to handle high loads several times, and then be replaced. Let alone, the fact that if you run a full spool, you must use c-clip eliminators, which usually use a ball bearing assembly to retain the axle. Because, for the most simple reason, the c-clip grooves on the axles are rendered inaccessible by the spool's construction. Plus the spool is not really designed to work with c-clip type axles. These ball bearings are great for straight line drag racing, since they have a low coefficient of friction. But, in a lateral load situation,(i.e. street driving,) they do not provide adequate support or longevity. All street vehicles I have encountered use a roller bearing, which supports the "street" type forces much better.
Now, as far as lockers go, they have many metal-on-metal surfaces and assemblies like castellated or toothed rings, which can quickly wear and chip. They were, in certain forms, original equipment in some earlier Fords, and some people do use them in street driven vehicles. But, they are very aggressive, noisy, and abrupt in their function. They, in my opinion, do not make a good choice for a daily driver. Also, as you mentioned, they can cause unpredictability in low traction situations, especially if the operator doesn't know what to expect. But, even lockers are much different than a mini spool, which is what his question was originally about.
All of this is exacerbated by the fact that we're dealing with a vehicle that weighs two-plus tons here, and, in most cases, is at least a decade old. This, in it's self, can cause additional handling issues if not dealt with properly.
So, in my opinion, (Which, to the best of my knowledge, is shared by the manufacturers,) these devices, especially spools and mini spools, are not for the street. They are designed and intended for off-road race use only. But, as I said, don't take my word for it! Ask the guys that design and build them. I should hope they know!
_________________________
WARNING! The above statement and all statements posted by this user are merely his opinion and are for entertainment purposes only. No information provided by this user should be taken as advice or instruction, or even considered necessarily correct. Consult an expert in the subject before drawing your own conclusions.
1995 Crown Vic P74, HPP, Medium Willow Green, stock, with a Sniper tune! Other Rides: 1998 Mustang GT, Rio Red Clearcoat, MANY modifications!, 1978 Chrysler Lebaron, silver, for sale or scrap!, 1982 Honda CM450E, customized, custom paint!, Brand New '07 Victory Vegas 8-Ball!
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