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#1929815 - 12/08/09 08:11 PM 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem?
JimmyKudo Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Southern California
I'm a newbie to cars so please go easy on me. \:\)

My 99cv won't start and I think it's the relay or the pump itself.

Right now I hear a ticking noise coming from the relay box when I turn the ignition key to power only. The noise is just two separate ticks about 2 or 3 seconds apart, which is the usual time that the fuel pump runs if it was working.

Normally I'd hear the ticking noise, then the fuel pump would cycle, or try to cycle, but now it's dead back there and I can't get pressure at the rails to start it. I'll try to have a video up with the noise tomorrow.

I don't have the technical knowledge or tools to replace the pump, the car won't start so I can't get it to a shop, and just looking at the fuel pump relay box makes me worry, there's no connectors for the wires and the box doesn't look like it opens.

Help please. \:\) Any ideas on how to just get her started would be of great help. I tried using jump cables this morning, hoping that maybe my battery was just going low on me, but that did nothing.
_________________________
--98 P71 NPI 175k--

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#1929825 - 12/08/09 08:17 PM Re: 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem? [Re: JimmyKudo]
JimmyKudo Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Southern California
Oh and also, the relay box actual moves very slightly when I turn the key (before trying ignition).

Just in case you were wondering as well, I don't think it's a starter problem because the starter sounds like it's working fine, and the battery has held the charge of me trying these past few days (until I charged it this morning) so I think that and the alternator is fine.

I think it's pump related... maybe it's not relay and the pump is just not getting the power from the relay because it's dead.
_________________________
--98 P71 NPI 175k--

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#1929838 - 12/08/09 08:24 PM Re: 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem? [Re: JimmyKudo]
Michigansquadcar Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 4908
Loc: Southeast michigan
There are a couple basic things you can check before really digging into diagnosing.

Turn the key to the on position (without attempting to start). Does the CEL come on. If so, your PCM has power to it.

Pop the trunk and see if the inertia switch was tripped. Its the little red button on the drivers side quarter panel.

Swap the fuel pump relay with another relay.

Any of this help???

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#1929847 - 12/08/09 08:29 PM Re: 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem? [Re: Michigansquadcar]
JimmyKudo Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Southern California
Yes my CEL comes on, but it flickers on, like one flick before turning on.

I can't tell if it's tripped, when it's pressed all the way down it's shutting off the pump? How can I reset the switch if so?

How can I swap the relays? There's wires coming out of the bottom of the pump relay box (no connectors), and the wires lead to another set of wires and they're all taped together and just continue further into the abyss. Also it looks like there's no way of getting into the relay box to disconnect/connect anything.

I'll try to have pictures up tomorrow in addition to that video. Thanks for the quick reply by the way, it does help. \:D
_________________________
--98 P71 NPI 175k--

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#1930240 - 12/09/09 09:59 AM Re: 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem? [Re: JimmyKudo]
1Fastvic Offline
Climber

Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 680
Loc: Florida USA
first of all make sure the fuses are all good. just find a relay that is the same one as the fuel pump one if you got a 98-02 theres 3 relays in the small box above the L/F wheel and they should all be the same and the fuel pump one is in there. swap it see if it will start. if no start. have a friend turn the key to the ON position but dont start. and you lie underneath the back of the car see if you can hear the pump turn on. if you dont hear it turn on after you check the fuses and relays they i would say your fuel pump is bad. p.s get a fuel pressure tester from advanced auto parts you can rent them for 30 then you bring it back when your done and you get all your money back.
_________________________
____________________old vic____________________________
1FastVic- 2001 P71, magnaflow custom exhaust, trick flow plenum, 75mm throttle body, Jmod, B&M Electronic Shift Improver, Gutted Cats.
Coming Soon: 3.73, drilled and slotted rotors, marauder intake, new head gaskets and oil pan gasket.

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#1930574 - 12/09/09 06:13 PM Re: 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem? [Re: 1Fastvic]
LTDteether Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 4450
Loc: Democratic Rep. of Southpaw
Shorting the contacts in the fuel pump prime connector should fire up the fuel pump. If that works, the relay or something on the control (coil) side of the relay is bad.

The connector sits on top of the driver side wheel well. The wires are LB/OG and DG/YE. It is kind of hard to miss as it is a connector to nowwhere.
_________________________
'99 GM GS HPP.
I may not be a rocket scientist, but I *am* a scientist.

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#1930586 - 12/09/09 06:29 PM Re: 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem? [Re: LTDteether]
Blackcvpi Offline
Cynical Jackass
Poobah

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 5301
Loc: Your mom's house
10 bucks says it's the fuel pump ......same thing happened to me last week.

My topic about my fuel pump going out
_________________________
2003 Crown Victoria ( AKA Car Craft Crown Vic ) ff, Trick Flow 38CC top end kit, Full SW exhaust, MM Airbox and MAF, ADTR zip tube, 78mm BBK Plenum and TB, Tuned by RET in Downey CA, Jmod, 3.73 with track lok, Naake coilover suspension, Henious control arms, Mettco watts link, Addco sway bars, 17" steel rims widened to 9.0 with 285/40/17 tire in the rear....more mods coming soon.

08 F250 Super Duty Lariat Crew Cab, 6.4 Powerstroke Turbo Diesel, Daystar leveling kit with Bilstien Shocks [/size]



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#1930947 - 12/10/09 01:08 AM Re: 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem? [Re: Blackcvpi]
JimmyKudo Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Southern California
 Originally Posted By: 1Fastvic
first of all make sure the fuses are all good. just find a relay that is the same one as the fuel pump one if you got a 98-02 theres 3 relays in the small box above the L/F wheel and they should all be the same and the fuel pump one is in there. swap it see if it will start. if no start. have a friend turn the key to the ON position but dont start. and you lie underneath the back of the car see if you can hear the pump turn on. if you dont hear it turn on after you check the fuses and relays they i would say your fuel pump is bad. p.s get a fuel pressure tester from advanced auto parts you can rent them for 30 then you bring it back when your done and you get all your money back.


I'm pretty sure I know what relays you're talking about but it doesn't look like that relay box opens. Is it the smaller box attached to another plastic box that's a bit larger?

Shoot I reallly have to get those pictures/vidoes up.... I'll try to remember this time.

Also, the fuel pump was loud enough to hear from the front when it used to work, but now it's completely dead back there. About a few weeks ago the car had problems starting; I had to hear the pump cycle a minimum of three times to get enough pressure at the rails to start her up, and the pump wouldn't cycle every time I turned the key to the ON position so I had to sit there fiddling with it for a few minutes every cold start.

Once the car was on it was fine, but on those occasions where the pump wouldn't cycle it would still make a noise (kind of like it was trying to cycle) but like I said, there's no noise back there whatsoever... just the sound of the relay up front.

I'll speak the details out when I make the video so it's easier to understand... I'll also double check if the box opens up.

 Originally Posted By: LTDteether
Shorting the contacts in the fuel pump prime connector should fire up the fuel pump. If that works, the relay or something on the control (coil) side of the relay is bad.

The connector sits on top of the driver side wheel well. The wires are LB/OG and DG/YE. It is kind of hard to miss as it is a connector to nowwhere.


I have no clue how to do that though... and I'm pretty sure I didn't see a connector there but I'll check again tomorrow morning... I'll also get pics up.

 Originally Posted By: AKA_Blackcvpi
10 bucks says it's the fuel pump ......same thing happened to me last week.

My topic about my fuel pump going out

Oh dang, I was just about to ask you where you got it done and how much it cost you but you did it yourself.

To be honest I'd love to learn how to do it myself, but I live in an apartment complex, I definitely don't have the right tools, and I don't have previous experience.

Also, I'm only 21 and I can't afford to make things worse because I don't have money (college, hope that pays off). This would also be the first car I really put my hands on so yeahhh, that explains the experience part.

My old mechanic told me that I should replace the evap hose that leads to there if I ever drop the tank since my car has previous evap problem history (now fixed)... should I do that if it is the pump (lets hope it's not here and stick with a relay gone bad). \:D
_________________________
--98 P71 NPI 175k--

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#1930956 - 12/10/09 01:22 AM Re: 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem? [Re: JimmyKudo]
JimmyKudo Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Southern California
Oh and your CV is gorgeous AKA_Blackcvpi, the picture makes it look gray (assuming that it's actually black like your name implies) but that looks amazing as hell too. \:D
_________________________
--98 P71 NPI 175k--

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#1930967 - 12/10/09 01:40 AM Re: 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem? [Re: JimmyKudo]
Nomad8326 Offline
A suspicious mind is a healthy mind.
Poobah

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 6082
Loc: Ohio
_________________________
2008 CVPI - Salem City Police Unit
2004 Explorer XLS
2005 CVPI - Black Lake Township PD #6 - SOLD

Oil Cooler Hose Replacement, Slow/Inoperative Window Repair - Cleaning Switches 95-02, 92+ Fuel Pump Replacement w/o Tank Drop, Broken Seat Bolt Repair, Vinyl Decal/Sticker Removal Tips

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#1931007 - 12/10/09 05:17 AM Re: 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem? [Re: Nomad8326]
Eaglegcil Offline
Rookie

Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Illinois
it's most definately the pump, you can change that with an 8mm socket and a pair of pliers and a flat screwdriver. not hard at all, just need to be sure the tank is under half. not a hard repair at all. i have done many of them. no need to remove the tank.
_________________________
1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
--2004 Tail Lights
--Blacked Out Tail Panel
--Head light relay addon setup
--Future J-Mod
--HPP Rims (Looks Great!)
--Few scratch repairs to come...

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#1931122 - 12/10/09 09:57 AM Re: 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem? [Re: JimmyKudo]
Blackcvpi Offline
Cynical Jackass
Poobah

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 5301
Loc: Your mom's house
 Originally Posted By: JimmyKudo
Oh and your CV is gorgeous AKA_Blackcvpi, the picture makes it look gray (assuming that it's actually black like your name implies) but that looks amazing as hell too. \:D



Thank you so much!!!!! \:D

Yeah it's black......it was a bit cloudy out when I took that picture, that's probably why it looks greyish. To be honest the picture make's it look better then it is. It has what I lovingly call a 10 foot paint job......looks great from 10 feet away but any closer and you can see the flaw's. Come spring she is getting a new paint job.

I priced out the cost of having the pump replaced for me. I was quoted between 400 at a local shop to 850 at my local Ford dealer.

The pump and strainer screen cost me 125 but I really had to fight the car to reinstall the tank. Above this Norman8326 provides a link on how to change the pump without dropping the tank, if I have to do this again I will try to do it that way.

Let us know if you have anymore question's we are here to help if we can. \:\)
_________________________
2003 Crown Victoria ( AKA Car Craft Crown Vic ) ff, Trick Flow 38CC top end kit, Full SW exhaust, MM Airbox and MAF, ADTR zip tube, 78mm BBK Plenum and TB, Tuned by RET in Downey CA, Jmod, 3.73 with track lok, Naake coilover suspension, Henious control arms, Mettco watts link, Addco sway bars, 17" steel rims widened to 9.0 with 285/40/17 tire in the rear....more mods coming soon.

08 F250 Super Duty Lariat Crew Cab, 6.4 Powerstroke Turbo Diesel, Daystar leveling kit with Bilstien Shocks [/size]



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#1931421 - 12/10/09 04:55 PM Re: 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem? [Re: Blackcvpi]
Blackcvpi Offline
Cynical Jackass
Poobah

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 5301
Loc: Your mom's house
By the way...don't let the fact that you live in a apartment stop you from working on your car. I changed my fuel pump while my car was parked on the street. My driveway is to steep to pull my car in without ripping the rear bumper off.
_________________________
2003 Crown Victoria ( AKA Car Craft Crown Vic ) ff, Trick Flow 38CC top end kit, Full SW exhaust, MM Airbox and MAF, ADTR zip tube, 78mm BBK Plenum and TB, Tuned by RET in Downey CA, Jmod, 3.73 with track lok, Naake coilover suspension, Henious control arms, Mettco watts link, Addco sway bars, 17" steel rims widened to 9.0 with 285/40/17 tire in the rear....more mods coming soon.

08 F250 Super Duty Lariat Crew Cab, 6.4 Powerstroke Turbo Diesel, Daystar leveling kit with Bilstien Shocks [/size]



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#1931549 - 12/10/09 07:20 PM Re: 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem? [Re: Blackcvpi]
JimmyKudo Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Southern California
I bought a new relay by the way, and it didn't work. I kept trying over and over again switching between both relays and nothing happened except for once. The pump actually did cycle once but there was too much noise to hear it while it was cycling so I didn't get to start it.

 Originally Posted By: Eaglegcil
it's most definately the pump, you can change that with an 8mm socket and a pair of pliers and a flat screwdriver. not hard at all, just need to be sure the tank is under half. not a hard repair at all. i have done many of them. no need to remove the tank.


Noooo!!! It's full. I filled it up a day or two before it died. FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.............

Now I have to siphon it. \:\(

 Originally Posted By: Nomad8326


It seems easy enough but I'm still not confident enough with my skill to do that. I couldn't even change my own spark plugs (I thought I had to remove the fuel rails) and I was very confident in doing that so I can't imagine how this'll turn out.

Also I don't have all the tools and I don't know what some are (what does he mean by extensions?).

If you guys are a hundred percent sure that it's very very easy to a noob then yes I'll do it (I'll find jackstands somewhere, once I'm sure of what they are).

 Originally Posted By: AKA_Blackcvpi
Thank you so much!!!!! \:D

Yeah it's black......it was a bit cloudy out when I took that picture, that's probably why it looks greyish. To be honest the picture make's it look better then it is. It has what I lovingly call a 10 foot paint job......looks great from 10 feet away but any closer and you can see the flaw's. Come spring she is getting a new paint job.

I priced out the cost of having the pump replaced for me. I was quoted between 400 at a local shop to 850 at my local Ford dealer.

The pump and strainer screen cost me 125 but I really had to fight the car to reinstall the tank. Above this Norman8326 provides a link on how to change the pump without dropping the tank, if I have to do this again I will try to do it that way.

Let us know if you have anymore question's we are here to help if we can. \:\)


You're still in better shape than I am, mine is a minimum of 30 feet... haha I won't repaint mine though... I'll probably repaint the next CV I get. :))

Also, what's a strainer screen?

My local shop is quoting me at 125 labor and the part is 60 so it's not too pricey, but I don't have that kind of money unfortunately.

Hmmmm I have to think about all these DIY suggestions... I just don't want to screw things up.
_________________________
--98 P71 NPI 175k--

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#1931594 - 12/10/09 07:50 PM Re: 99CV won't start. Fuel pump/relay problem? [Re: JimmyKudo]
Blackcvpi Offline
Cynical Jackass
Poobah

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 5301
Loc: Your mom's house
They never die on less then a half a tank.....it's the sad truth.

Where is socal are you?

Have you ever changed your own oil or wired a stereo?

I am just trying to see how mechanical you are. I am sorta a noob when it comes to these car's ( this site has helped me lots in that department).

The strainer screen is attached to the Fuel pump inside the
tank. I keeps big chunks of whatever may be floating in the gas tank from ruining the pump.

Extensions are just a tool that goes with a socket and ratchet tool set. It extends the reach of the socket. If you own a basic socket set you probably have a real short one in there.
_________________________
2003 Crown Victoria ( AKA Car Craft Crown Vic ) ff, Trick Flow 38CC top end kit, Full SW exhaust, MM Airbox and MAF, ADTR zip tube, 78mm BBK Plenum and TB, Tuned by RET in Downey CA, Jmod, 3.73 with track lok, Naake coilover suspension, Henious control arms, Mettco watts link, Addco sway bars, 17" steel rims widened to 9.0 with 285/40/17 tire in the rear....more mods coming soon.

08 F250 Super Duty Lariat Crew Cab, 6.4 Powerstroke Turbo Diesel, Daystar leveling kit with Bilstien Shocks [/size]



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