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#2336283 - 07/20/11 11:59 AM Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine?
Robert_Allen Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 3212
Loc: Tuna, Texas
This is probably too pie in the sky to be practical, but what would it take to put a 3V engine in a Panther, assuming you locked out the cam phasers to disable the VVT system? The reason I ask is because I was reading a debat in another thread where the 5.4 makes more torque, due to its bigger displacement, but not necesarily more horsepower. Which sounds to me like the 2V head is the limiting factor. So a freer breathing head would make more horsepower, and the 5.4's added displacement can still keep intake velocity up at lower RPMs, which is where torque is made. I haven't heard od a DOHC 5.4 being installed in a CV, probably because its too wide, but would a 3V 5.4 fit? What kind of electronics would it take to get it to work in a Panther?
_________________________
1978 Grand Marquis
1996 Ford Thunderbird



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#2336293 - 07/20/11 12:20 PM Re: Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine? [Re: Robert_Allen]
interceptor1985 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 5824
Loc: OREGON
Read this over, has all the info needed, use your stock 4.6 mounts.
http://www.mylrs.com/blogs/lrs/archive/2009/01/12/Ford-Racing-4.6L-3-Valve-Fox-Body-Swap-Part-1.aspx
Then adjust for the extra size of the 5.4 (which might not fit under your hood when done)


Edited by interceptor1985 (07/20/11 12:21 PM)

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#2336307 - 07/20/11 12:38 PM Re: Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine? [Re: Robert_Allen]
2004_p71 Offline

no replacement for displacement
Grand Poobah

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 12061
Loc: Quebec Canada
The main problem right now with the 5.4 options is that there are only one intake designed to fit under the hood og the crown vic and it's the hps intake.
All other intake will be truck intake that will be sticking out of the hood.
There are other ways to improove the hp rating than trying to fit 3v heads with an intake on a 5.4.
Cams and ported heads will net you excelents gains on a 5.4.
_________________________


04 is getting back on track with the new 5.4 laugh

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#2337446 - 07/21/11 08:55 PM Re: Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine? [Re: Robert_Allen]
Bondfreak13 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 3668
Loc: Palm Bay, FL.
the 5.4 just needs air. Ask 2004_p71, all he did was make the motor breathe and the it woke up.
_________________________
2000 Crown Vic.
Click to reveal..
Pier P&P Factory plenum, ADTR intake pipe, Duals w/ H-pipe, Addco group buy 1 1/2(38mm)front Sway bar and 1 1/4 (31mm)rear sway bar w/ polly bushing. Bilstein stocks. Metco Upper and lower control arms, Metco Watts link, HPP Wheels.
5.4 SOHC swap coming Soon. (There is no Replacement for Displacement, no substitute for cubic inches)

Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is knowing not use a tomato in a fruit salad.

If your looking for a large comfortable ride with that Retro Feel without the Retro looks, then the Crown Vic is your Car. It's the best Modern car from 1979 you can buy.

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#2337460 - 07/21/11 09:22 PM Re: Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine? [Re: Robert_Allen]
CameronVic Offline
Coolest guy on CVN
Poobah

Registered: 03/25/09
Posts: 5189
Loc: In the beams!
The difficulty with 5.4s making HP is because they have the same bore as a 4.6, but a longer stroke. 5.4s were made (in my opinion) to have 4V heads on them (or TFS heads, now go finish your build bondfreak!) or some sort of power adder. They are more torquey because of their long stroke.
_________________________
1999 P71, Chevy 5.3, twin GT35s, 4L80e, 3.55s, E85, etc. 9.96 @ 139.

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#2337663 - 07/22/11 05:30 AM Re: Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine? [Re: Bondfreak13]
2004_p71 Offline

no replacement for displacement
Grand Poobah

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 12061
Loc: Quebec Canada
Originally Posted By: Bondfreak13
the 5.4 just needs air. Ask 2004_p71, all he did was make the motor breathe and the it woke up.


hell yeah a simple 70 mm tb plus an accufab plenum got me .7 sec faster
_________________________


04 is getting back on track with the new 5.4 laugh

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#2337772 - 07/22/11 10:17 AM Re: Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine? [Re: Robert_Allen]
Binding_Posts Offline
Climber

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 923
Loc: Loo-UH-Ville Ken-Tuc-E
From what I understand, you would benefit much more from a 4 valve vs. a 3 valve. The heads / intake are the limiting factor, and if you decide to run boost you will probably not make as much HP.
_________________________
I blame Binding_Posts for introducing us all to Kentucky Gentleman. - a_d_a_m
------...................1989 Crown Victoria Country Squire LX..

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#2337958 - 07/22/11 02:35 PM Re: Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine? [Re: Binding_Posts]
Robert_Allen Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 3212
Loc: Tuna, Texas
How much work will it take to fit a 4V 5.4 under a stock Panther hood. From what I've read, some of the changes to the Panther suspension in '03 were to fit the quad cam 4.6 in the Marauder. The 5.4 is even wider still. That is the main reason I was wondering about the feasability of the SOHC 3v. 90% of the 4V's airflow in a narrower package.

But yeah, if it fits, a quad cam 5.4 would be awesome. Time to hit the boneyards and start collecting parts laugh
_________________________
1978 Grand Marquis
1996 Ford Thunderbird



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#2337977 - 07/22/11 03:32 PM Re: Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine? [Re: Robert_Allen]
Bondfreak13 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 3668
Loc: Palm Bay, FL.
The 5.4 FAQ talks about the a 5.4 DOHC swap. But as of now it's guesstamates and math, until some one does it.


And Cameron, it takes money. Right now things are tight and I don't want to rush anything. It's taken me 8 years so far to get to where i am now. I don't want to mess it up.
_________________________
2000 Crown Vic.
Click to reveal..
Pier P&P Factory plenum, ADTR intake pipe, Duals w/ H-pipe, Addco group buy 1 1/2(38mm)front Sway bar and 1 1/4 (31mm)rear sway bar w/ polly bushing. Bilstein stocks. Metco Upper and lower control arms, Metco Watts link, HPP Wheels.
5.4 SOHC swap coming Soon. (There is no Replacement for Displacement, no substitute for cubic inches)

Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is knowing not use a tomato in a fruit salad.

If your looking for a large comfortable ride with that Retro Feel without the Retro looks, then the Crown Vic is your Car. It's the best Modern car from 1979 you can buy.

Top
#2338061 - 07/22/11 06:27 PM Re: Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine? [Re: Bondfreak13]
Gotts2BMe Offline
Member

Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 246
Loc: Canada
_________________________
1995 Lincoln Town Car - 5.4 swap, no cats, true dual magnaflow, trac loc, 4 link, ported intake, SCT tuning

2000 F150 5.4 - Long Tube headers, Gotts intake, magnaflow exhaust, UDP's, efans, ported intake, 75mm TB, SCT tuning, 33" Firestone M/T's

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#2341387 - 07/27/11 12:03 PM Re: Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine? [Re: Gotts2BMe]
prodigalson Offline
Banned
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 3167
Loc: Cleveland, OH USA
The 5.4 3v is almost as wide as the 4v. And maxing out the cam phasers pretty much defeats the whole purpose of the 3v setup. Yes it will breathe more than a 2v but you're taking away all the adjustability of the performance, so whats the point?

And I've already outlined the major trouble points of the 4v swap, as I believe it to be, in numerous other threads. I'm just taking the Bondfreak approach - do it once, do it right.
_________________________
Permanently banned.

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#2341479 - 07/27/11 01:48 PM Re: Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine? [Re: prodigalson]
2004_p71 Offline

no replacement for displacement
Grand Poobah

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 12061
Loc: Quebec Canada
Originally Posted By: prodigalson
And maxing out the cam phasers pretty much defeats the whole purpose of the 3v setup.
And I've already outlined the major trouble points of the 4v swap, as I believe it to be, in numerous other threads. I'm just taking the Bondfreak approach - do it once, do it right.

x2
Do it right the first time.
I'm more or less the guinea pig regarding mods on a 5.4 NA lol.
Wait till i'm done so you can learn from my good and bad experience lol
_________________________


04 is getting back on track with the new 5.4 laugh

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#2341508 - 07/27/11 02:34 PM Re: Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine? [Re: Robert_Allen]
GSDNH Offline
Banned
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 2724
Loc: MA
If you get a 3V computer, you can run the VVT and shut up these nay-sayers.
IIRC, the 3V 4.6 intake manifolds have the throttle body at the front of the motor.....
So you wouldn't have to use the HPS intake. Who knows what other intake options are out there?

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#2341537 - 07/27/11 03:09 PM Re: Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine? [Re: Robert_Allen]
2004_p71 Offline

no replacement for displacement
Grand Poobah

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 12061
Loc: Quebec Canada
anything can be done in this world.

the way i see it is that there are too many cons to justify the 5,4 3 v swap yet.
lack of option for the intake is just a big turn off if you want to upgrade performance wise down the road
_________________________


04 is getting back on track with the new 5.4 laugh

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#2341937 - 07/28/11 02:22 AM Re: Thinking out loud-5.4L 3V engine? [Re: Robert_Allen]
GSDNH Offline
Banned
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 2724
Loc: MA
But I just mentioned that 3V uses a different intake, of which several high-performance models exist.
Switching to 3V will give you MORE intake options besides the one HPS for the 2V.

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