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#2348842 - 08/08/11 08:08 AM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: sdiesel]
Big_Bad_Joe Offline
Poobah

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 8409
Loc: Rochester NY
Drops when You put it in gear... First clue!
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2006 LX with HPPBlue, Light Camel Interior,Magnaflow Exhaust,PI Zip Tube
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2000 HPP RESURECTION RIP 8/17/2012 died in Dayton OH

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#2348843 - 08/08/11 08:19 AM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: Big_Bad_Joe]
sdiesel Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/08
Posts: 409
Loc: 612
Originally Posted By: Big_Bad_Joe
Drops when You put it in gear... First clue!


Yep. If I start it, and put it in reverse, the voltage drops immediately and when I hit the brake the lights dim and voltage drops

Originally Posted By: 98VicP71


Isn't that a 6g? Whats the difference 4g-6g are they interchangeable?


Edited by sdiesel (08/08/11 08:20 AM)
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#2348848 - 08/08/11 08:43 AM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: Big_Bad_Joe]
98VicP71 Offline
14.6@93MPH
Grand Poobah

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 12731
Loc: ATL
Originally Posted By: Big_Bad_Joe
Drops when You put it in gear... First clue!


so what should we check? voltage goes to normal off idle in gear just at idle in gear the voltage drops for mine.

Stock/Factory alt works fine in our out of gear.
_________________________
1993 Lincoln Town Car 150k+ - RIP 5/10/2011
1998 Ford Crown Victoria P71 - RIP 12/25/2006
2001 Ford Crown Victoria P71(Count blackula) 180k+ - Ummmmmm evil

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#2349128 - 08/08/11 04:14 PM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: sdiesel]
99_03PantherS Offline
Poobah

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 9467
Loc: NW side Chicago
Idk..its just been that high.
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Jason G. Replaced 1st intake manifold at 15. haha
'03 Marquis: 67K,15.31 @ 91.19, MZT 93 octane tune, P&P Aviator T/B, duals with rear cats missing, 3.27 Trac loc 31 spline rear, sway bars, tints, badgeless grille..blahblah various exterior mods *NEW* Steeda pulleys and Towncar rims
'08 F-450 6.4 Powerstroke: DPF,EGR delete, Spartan powered tuner.

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#2349140 - 08/08/11 04:37 PM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: 98VicP71]
GrandMarq9807 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 2943
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: 98VicP71
Originally Posted By: Big_Bad_Joe
Drops when You put it in gear... First clue!


so what should we check? voltage goes to normal off idle in gear just at idle in gear the voltage drops for mine.

Stock/Factory alt works fine in our out of gear.


Does the new alt have a larger pulley??? Often they are just slightly larger which will cause charge problems at idle... Otherwise if the internal regulator is OK(likely)the new alt requires more RPMs to charge than does the stocker... Likely you need to raise idle speed and/or switch a undersize pulley...
_________________________
1998 Grand Marquis LS. 61K mi.
2007 Grand Marquis GS. 61K mi.
1996 F-150 XLT 5.0 E4OD 179K mi
1988 Turbocoupe 331 AOD
1972 Comet GT 306 C4
1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 4-Speed


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#2349223 - 08/08/11 07:23 PM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: sdiesel]
BlaineB Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 4183
Loc: *
6g has a bigger case than 4g. The 6g is deeper. Also 6g has better cooling and also better bearings compared against 4g. Of course over the lifetime it is said that the improved bearings and cooling really have no affect. 6g was the only alternator offered in 130 amps for Police although 4g and 6g were also wound for lower amps for civilian cars. It seems like Grand Marquiss always got 4g while Crown Victorias got 6g.

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#2349242 - 08/08/11 07:49 PM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: BlaineB]
Big_Bad_Joe Offline
Poobah

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 8409
Loc: Rochester NY
Ok... Your gauge and your measurements with a meter have concluded that the alternator is working okay except on idle in gear.

That is not unusual. There a two very common things that can cause that. One is the drive belt, the other battery connections including grounds.

Given the fact that it is not malfunctioning except for idling in gear you should make sure the tension on the belt is good when there is a load on the motor. You can do it by checking the tensioner. Given the age of the car that is a highly likely source.

You seem reluctant to check that part. It is not expensive or difficult to just replace. It should be hard to release the drive belt. If it is easy to release then the tensioner is too worn.

There is the possibility that since this is a higher output with therefore more windings, it may require a higher rpm. Ford set the idle higher in gear for police units for this very reason. They know what they are doing.

As suggested you could raise the idle with a tuner.


Edited by Big_Bad_Joe (08/08/11 07:50 PM)
_________________________
2006 LX with HPPBlue, Light Camel Interior,Magnaflow Exhaust,PI Zip Tube
Underdrives from ADTR.net
Pioneer AVIC X930BT Nav system, JL xD400/4amp, JL Speakers, Audiovox backup camera

2000 HPP RESURECTION RIP 8/17/2012 died in Dayton OH

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#2349285 - 08/08/11 08:59 PM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: Big_Bad_Joe]
sdiesel Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/08
Posts: 409
Loc: 612
I did check the tensioner.. Couldn't find anything wrong with it. I really am not sure how to tell if the tensioner is bad or not though.

It seemed to take quite a bit of force pushing down to release the tension.

Looks like my next step is to compare the pulleys on both alternators and see if one is larger than the other

Battery connections should be all good. It's grounded to the factory green ground
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#2349425 - 08/09/11 01:26 AM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: sdiesel]
sdiesel Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/08
Posts: 409
Loc: 612
Update.. Checked this pins on alternator harness, all good

I put my old alternator (stock, 12 years old) back on and my voltage is much better.

It no longer drops in gear. Slight drop when I turn on my ac (which is why I decided to get a new alt) but it's nothing bad.

I will be returning my alt and maybe just buy a new OEM one
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#2349480 - 08/09/11 06:50 AM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: sdiesel]
98VicP71 Offline
14.6@93MPH
Grand Poobah

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 12731
Loc: ATL
I know my tensioner is good cause it is brand new when I put the new motor in. Also belt is new and tight. it is a gatorback belt 1" shorter than stock.

I may see about getting a smaller pulley.
_________________________
1993 Lincoln Town Car 150k+ - RIP 5/10/2011
1998 Ford Crown Victoria P71 - RIP 12/25/2006
2001 Ford Crown Victoria P71(Count blackula) 180k+ - Ummmmmm evil

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#2349524 - 08/09/11 08:44 AM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: 98VicP71]
Big_Bad_Joe Offline
Poobah

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 8409
Loc: Rochester NY
okay well had you said that then I would have moved on earlier LOL cool

More than likely you have to step up the idle in gear. Bigger windings would do that if my fading knowledge of making electricity are correct. More windings but low speed making for an issue... seems to hold up in theory?

Anyway good luck...
_________________________
2006 LX with HPPBlue, Light Camel Interior,Magnaflow Exhaust,PI Zip Tube
Underdrives from ADTR.net
Pioneer AVIC X930BT Nav system, JL xD400/4amp, JL Speakers, Audiovox backup camera

2000 HPP RESURECTION RIP 8/17/2012 died in Dayton OH

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#2349546 - 08/09/11 09:34 AM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: BlaineB]
Roscoe Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 323
Loc: North Florida
My '99GM came with a 6G alternator.
_________________________
'99 GM LS, Steeda underdrives, ADTR ported plenum, BBK 70mm TB, JLT CAI w/80mm Maf, '04 ziptube,
dual exhaust, Reinhart tune, 3:27 w/limited slip diff., Heinous rear control arms, Hawk HPS Brakes,
Command Automotive Cryogenic rotors, Addco f/r sway bars,
KYB Gas-A-Just shocks.

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#2351690 - 08/12/11 01:27 PM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: sdiesel]
BlaineB Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 4183
Loc: *
Any update? What did DB Electric say about this issue?

P_Weston is running a 6G 130 amp P71 alternator in his Grand Marquis and he has not bumped his idle with a tune or P71 PCM swap and he is not having any voltage issues as far as I know.

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#2351888 - 08/12/11 10:17 PM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: BlaineB]
Big_Bad_Joe Offline
Poobah

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 8409
Loc: Rochester NY
Umm I thought he said he was running a 220amp?
_________________________
2006 LX with HPPBlue, Light Camel Interior,Magnaflow Exhaust,PI Zip Tube
Underdrives from ADTR.net
Pioneer AVIC X930BT Nav system, JL xD400/4amp, JL Speakers, Audiovox backup camera

2000 HPP RESURECTION RIP 8/17/2012 died in Dayton OH

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#2351955 - 08/13/11 01:19 AM Re: Low voltage at idle.. Not alternator prob.. [Re: sdiesel]
BlaineB Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 4183
Loc: *
I know he is, I was just saying that the 130 amp has more windings than the civilian alternator and yet it survives at the lower RPM of stock Grand Marquis programming...lower idle speed than the P71s.

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