#2325747 - 07/04/11 03:56 PM
Battery light / No charge 2003 CVPI
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n00b
Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 14
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Battery light comes on shortly after starting engine - stays on reguardless of engine speed. Replaced the battery since I believe it is the factory original (8-years old) and the "Red Eye" was showing. Voltage at battery with engine off was @ 13.2V with new battery installed - has been decreasing over time as I continue to troubleshoot the problem and now is at 12.6V. Voltage at alternator's B+ terminal is same as battery voltage. Disconnected wire from B+ and voltage at terminal is 0.5V with engine running. I removed the alternator and had tested at Advance Auto Parts and it tested "good" and showed that is was producing 14.2V output, but I question how much faith should I have in the alternator being "good", based on the test. I didn't check continuity of the two fusable links between B+ and the battery, but I assume since I have battery voltage at B+ with the engine off that that's not the problem. I also have battery voltage @ pin 3(A) of the 6G connector, which I believe proves the fuse is good (where *is* that fuse, anyway?). So ultimately, my questions are: Should I replace the alternator even though it bench-tested "good" out of the car? Is there an external voltage regulator I can/need to check? Is there a way to check the PCM other than to replace it? Here's a Reference Diagram
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#2325749 - 07/04/11 04:00 PM
Re: Battery light / No charge 2003 CVPI
[Re: lwbowers]
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Over the Hill
Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 1522
Loc: North of Detroit
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I can't answer your charging question but before I pay for a new alternator, I would find someone that rebuilds them. The cost of rebuilding the alternator is a lot less than a new one.
_________________________
2004 CVPI - 135,000 Miles
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#2325754 - 07/04/11 04:06 PM
Re: Battery light / No charge 2003 CVPI
[Re: lwbowers]
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Member
Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 449
Loc: Birchwood,TN
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I am pretty sure in '03 cars the charge state of the alternator is controlled by the PCM. So if it tests good,there might be a problem elsewhere.
Key word is might. I've had 2 BAD alternators test good on their machines before,so take anything they say with a grain of salt.
_________________________
My programs never have bugs,they just develop new features.
2000 CVPI,145K miles.
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#2325788 - 07/04/11 05:54 PM
Re: Battery light / No charge 2003 CVPI
[Re: lwbowers]
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Over the Hill
Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 1278
Loc: Charlotte NC
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Alternator sounds good. 14.2v is 14.2v. Sounds like you have a problem in the wiring. It is not getting to the battery. Best to test the whole charging system rather than testing each individual component. Where is the voltage regulator on the Panther's? If you have good ground on everything then start tracking the + till you find where it is not getting from the alt to the batt.
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#2325810 - 07/04/11 07:26 PM
Re: Battery light / No charge 2003 CVPI
[Re: NCHeel]
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n00b
Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 14
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I agree that this should be diagnosed systemically, and luckily there are only a few parts involved here - the battery, PCM, alternator and the interconnecting wires - and the battery has already been replaced. There's a nice writeup here that describes the PCMs function, along with some testing hints. I have (almost) the expected voltages on pins 1-3 on the 6G connector, but I have no way of measuring the frequency being produced on the GEN-GFS line and I don't have a code reader to see if it's stored any of the P124* codes - it may be worth taking a look for those. It's also not zero volts - it's floating to 0.09 - so that may or may not be an issue. I believe the correct voltages on the 6G connector give me reason to believe the connections to the PCM are correct. And having battery voltage present at the alternator end of the B+ wire confirms a good path to the battery through (at least one of) the fused links - which leaves the piece in the middle (alternator) or the PCM. I don't generally like to throw parts at problems, but I think the alternator is a reasonably good guess, assuming that the bench test uses a brute-force approach to get the alternator to produce output and that it's been proven (according to Hypnotoad) that bad alternators can appear to test "good".
Edited by lwbowers (07/04/11 07:46 PM)
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#2325911 - 07/05/11 01:50 AM
Re: Battery light / No charge 2003 CVPI
[Re: NCHeel]
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Over the Hill
Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 1756
Loc: Glendale, AZ
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Where is the voltage regulator on the Panther's? It's integrated into the Alternator.
_________________________
~Chris~2007 Smokestone LX HPP - 17.5K miles 1/2016 '05 PI Airbox/Ziptube, BOC 91 Octane Tune, PowerSlot F&R Rotors, Raybestos Police Patrol Pads F&R, 260A Mechman Alt w/OAD & Big 3, Ported Intake Plenum, Adco Front & Rear Swaybars, Metco Control Arms, Metco Watts Link, KYB Police Struts/Shocks F&R, Arnott HPP-spec "Limo" rear bags, Walker Quietflow 3's w/Resonator delete, 3.55 TracLoc conversion, 180 T-Stat, 22C Plugs, GY Eagle Sport AS Tires, Kenwood DNN992 Nav Headunit & Speakers, Viper 5901 Alarm/Remote Start & Street Guardian Dashcam MY ARTICLES Pulleys for Police Alternators | Replacing Door Weather Barriers | Exhaust Dampers and their importance
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#2326092 - 07/05/11 02:26 PM
Re: Battery light / No charge 2003 CVPI
[Re: lwbowers]
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Poobah
Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 8468
Loc: Rochester NY
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Battery light comes on shortly after starting engine - stays on reguardless of engine speed. Replaced the battery since I believe it is the factory original (8-years old) and the "Red Eye" was showing. Voltage at battery with engine off was @ 13.2V with new battery installed - has been decreasing over time as I continue to troubleshoot the problem and now is at 12.6V. Voltage at alternator's B+ terminal is same as battery voltage. Disconnected wire from B+ and voltage at terminal is 0.5V with engine running. I removed the alternator and had tested at Advance Auto Parts and it tested "good" and showed that is was producing 14.2V output, but I question how much faith should I have in the alternator being "good", based on the test. I didn't check continuity of the two fusable links between B+ and the battery, but I assume since I have battery voltage at B+ with the engine off that that's not the problem. I also have battery voltage @ pin 3(A) of the 6G connector, which I believe proves the fuse is good (where *is* that fuse, anyway?). So ultimately, my questions are: Should I replace the alternator even though it bench-tested "good" out of the car? Is there an external voltage regulator I can/need to check? Is there a way to check the PCM other than to replace it? Here's a Reference Diagram You need to test the alternator in the car! Those testers are totally unreliable as far as I am concerned. Just pick up a meter and check the voltage with the car running....... it should be between 13.9 and 14.3 ...depending on what accessories you have on when you test it... test it across the battery terminals... not at the alternator and go from there.... if its low its the alternator.... the drivebelt would have to be noticeably slipping and seriously worn to be causing this.... although it is possible but unlikely....
Edited by Big_Bad_Joe (07/05/11 02:28 PM)
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#2326321 - 07/05/11 07:57 PM
Re: Battery light / No charge 2003 CVPI
[Re: lwbowers]
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Over the Hill
Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 4379
Loc: Indiana
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Sounds like my alternator problems in my 2001. Also a 6G alternator, just a little bit different because it has the internal voltage regulator vs. your 2003 alternator being controlled by the PCM.
Replaced my battery with a brand new 850 CCA Motorcraft battery. I get around 13.9-14.2 volts at cold startup, but it will "bleed off" to around 13.5 after cruising for a little bit with no accessories on.
With A/C on MAX, blower on MAX, highbeams on, rear defroster on, wipers on, and interior lights on, I can get the voltage to dip to 11.3 volts...
But I am not getting a battery light. I see voltage at both pins on the regulator plug, 1 and 3 (pin 2 does not have a wire - yours may considering it is a different regulation system)
Most likely just a worn alternator. I never did install a new alternator in my car, just tried a few used ones, I guess used alternators aren't such a good idea, heh.
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#2326367 - 07/05/11 09:07 PM
Re: Battery light / No charge 2003 CVPI
[Re: BlaineB]
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n00b
Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 14
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The 2001 only uses pins 1 & 3 - see the diagrams here. Pin 1 provides feedback to the battery light, but must drop below a preset voltage before the light comes on.
Edited by lwbowers (07/05/11 09:10 PM)
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#2326966 - 07/06/11 03:28 PM
Re: Battery light / No charge 2003 CVPI
[Re: lwbowers]
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Over the Hill
Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 4379
Loc: Indiana
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Yes I understand, also that battery light pin is also a GENCOM pin or something. I didn't mean to hijack the thread, I was just providing input as I had already created a post about my issues.
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#2326976 - 07/06/11 03:41 PM
Re: Battery light / No charge 2003 CVPI
[Re: lwbowers]
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Member
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 234
Loc: Inland Empire, CA, US
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It is most likely the alternator. There are PIDs related to the problem of the sensing circuit. Voltage is regulated solely by the PCM - there is no on-board voltage regulator in the generator AFAIK. Since there is no ability to simulate PCM commands at the store's testing equipment - testing there will not detect issues with the sensing and command circuits in the alternator. for more info https://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbth...884#Post2046884There is a series of troubleshooting steps to be able to tell if the control connector (3 prong) works correctly. I cannot recall what the procedure is. Thank you.
_________________________
---
2003 Ford CVPI
Sasha
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#2358689 - 08/24/11 06:34 AM
Re: Battery light / No charge 2003 CVPI
[Re: lwbowers]
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Over the Hill
Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2191
Loc: SoCal High Desert
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Wow, lots of good info here. Thanks for doing all that research and sharing it with us! And thanks for bringing the thread 'home' with the final problem found.
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