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#2567873 - 07/28/12 10:02 AM 96 Town Car surging and stalling
d73805 Offline
n00b

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 13
Loc: Long Island, NY

I've searched the forum and haven't found any good answers. Hopefully someone's got an idea.
My 96 Town car, after it comes to temperature, the idle surges up and down. Mostly down. Many times so violently that it will stall. Some days it's fine, but yesterday it was so bad that I couldn't drive it home from work. My mechanic has been working on it on and off for the last month and things haven't improved. He tends to be pretty sharp and worked as a Ford mechanic up until the mid 90s.
So far we've changed: (Some for the sake of maintenance)
Plugs, wires, fuel filter, air filter, pcv
Intake manifold, thermostat, all hoses
IAC valve
Mass air flow sensor
EGR valve and EGR solenoid
Throttle position sensor
Temperature sensor
Catalytic converters


There are no external vacuum leaks, fuel pressure is good. Any ideas? My next step will be to call Car Talk, so they can publicly humiliate me by forcing me to make engine noises on the air. Thanks.
_________________________
dave sobel
01 LX Sport
85 Crown Vic LTD - crashed
86 Grand Marquis - retired
Dad's 96 Town Car

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#2567889 - 07/28/12 11:02 AM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
RollinX151 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1566
Loc: Hollywood, FL
Wow everyhing I would have recommended you to do you already did. I had the same problen in my 96 towncar last week and it was the plugs and wires. A few months ago I had a problem that the car would just turn off sometimes when i came to a stop. I changed the air filter, cleaned throttle body, cleaned maf, cleaned IAC, replaced fuel filter and added Lucas fuel additive and problem went away. I wish you luck because i know what a headache problem solving can be. I am currently on a mission to find a gas smell
_________________________
1996 Lincoln Town Car "Cartier" - 157K miles, 70mm TB, ADTR high flow intake tube, Magnaflow mufflers w/ high flow cats, MSD wires, MSD coils packs, Autolite Double Platinum plugs, 99' Presidential wheels, 01' Wood steering wheel, All LED interior, 8K HID's...






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#2567901 - 07/28/12 11:35 AM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: RollinX151]
d73805 Offline
n00b

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 13
Loc: Long Island, NY

At least I know I'm not alone.
I had it running for a while this morning, running fine at about 800 rpm. I revved it to about 2000 and it came down and stalled. Started it back up and it was surging from 1100-400 RPM.
_________________________
dave sobel
01 LX Sport
85 Crown Vic LTD - crashed
86 Grand Marquis - retired
Dad's 96 Town Car

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#2567919 - 07/28/12 12:13 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
Leadfoot Offline
Climber

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 977
Loc: Montreal, Qc, Canada
your fuel pump could potentially be on it's way out

Engine surging happens when too much engine fuel is squirted into the car's engine. A bad fuel pump may work fine at certain times, and then at other times it may over-pump, sending an excess of fuel into the engine. This will cause a short period of surging or acceleration.


Edited by Leadfoot (07/28/12 12:15 PM)
_________________________
-Dave

2003 P74 Crown Victoria LX Spruce Green- TR3650 5speed swap, Marauder Cluster and gauge pod, Marauder spoiler, 04 cvpi, maf and zip tube, dual exhaust, 4.10 gears, metro rear control arms, SQ roll bar without partition, headlight relay upgrade, Pioneer Avic 930BT head unit + Axxess Metra ASWC-1 for steering wheel controls, 17" CVPI rims.
2004 Manual CVPI aka Guinevere - RIP

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#2568011 - 07/28/12 03:19 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
d73805 Offline
n00b

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 13
Loc: Long Island, NY

I wouldn't have thought the fuel pump, being that I can keep a steady idle with a little pressure on the gas pedal. If I get a little more desperate, I may try it.
_________________________
dave sobel
01 LX Sport
85 Crown Vic LTD - crashed
86 Grand Marquis - retired
Dad's 96 Town Car

Top
#2568081 - 07/28/12 05:03 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
Leadfoot Offline
Climber

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 977
Loc: Montreal, Qc, Canada
considering you have done everything else that would be suspect that is about the only conclusion I can come to, I am sure someone might know better though smile
_________________________
-Dave

2003 P74 Crown Victoria LX Spruce Green- TR3650 5speed swap, Marauder Cluster and gauge pod, Marauder spoiler, 04 cvpi, maf and zip tube, dual exhaust, 4.10 gears, metro rear control arms, SQ roll bar without partition, headlight relay upgrade, Pioneer Avic 930BT head unit + Axxess Metra ASWC-1 for steering wheel controls, 17" CVPI rims.
2004 Manual CVPI aka Guinevere - RIP

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#2568287 - 07/28/12 10:52 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
Originally Posted By: d73805

I wouldn't have thought the fuel pump, being that I can keep a steady idle with a little pressure on the gas pedal. If I get a little more desperate, I may try it.
This sounds an awful lot like a bad IAC.

Mine does it too, but I figure its the IAC. Gonna swap the known good one over from te Merc and it hopefully goes away.
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

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#2568309 - 07/28/12 11:29 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
Leadfoot Offline
Climber

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 977
Loc: Montreal, Qc, Canada
he said he changed the IAC . . .
_________________________
-Dave

2003 P74 Crown Victoria LX Spruce Green- TR3650 5speed swap, Marauder Cluster and gauge pod, Marauder spoiler, 04 cvpi, maf and zip tube, dual exhaust, 4.10 gears, metro rear control arms, SQ roll bar without partition, headlight relay upgrade, Pioneer Avic 930BT head unit + Axxess Metra ASWC-1 for steering wheel controls, 17" CVPI rims.
2004 Manual CVPI aka Guinevere - RIP

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#2568310 - 07/28/12 11:30 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
Leadfoot Offline
Climber

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 977
Loc: Montreal, Qc, Canada
otherwise that would have been my first thought
_________________________
-Dave

2003 P74 Crown Victoria LX Spruce Green- TR3650 5speed swap, Marauder Cluster and gauge pod, Marauder spoiler, 04 cvpi, maf and zip tube, dual exhaust, 4.10 gears, metro rear control arms, SQ roll bar without partition, headlight relay upgrade, Pioneer Avic 930BT head unit + Axxess Metra ASWC-1 for steering wheel controls, 17" CVPI rims.
2004 Manual CVPI aka Guinevere - RIP

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#2568316 - 07/28/12 11:36 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
olopezm Offline
Member

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 483
Loc: Irapuato, Mexico
Make sure the Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR) is ok. It has a vacuum hose on top of it and I think in the 96 model is on the passenger side fuel rail (previous models was on driver side). Remove the hose and make sure no fuel comes out of either the hose or the FPR, turn the key to the RUN position to prime the fuel pump and see if any fuel comes out from the regulator. There should be none.

Oscar.
_________________________
1995 Lincoln Town Car Signature
1997 Pontiac Grand Prix GT
2000 Ford Windstar SE

"If you don't agree with me I respect you; if I don't agree with you I'm an ignorant? Nice thinking smart guy...

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#2568555 - 07/29/12 12:30 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
d73805 Offline
n00b

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 13
Loc: Long Island, NY

Even with the IAC unplugged, it does the same thing.
Oscar, I tried what you suggested with the pressure regulator this morning. No fuel leaks.

It started and ran great this morning. I drove about 10 minutes, parked, and came back 5 minutes later. As soon as I started, it stalled. After a few tries and goosing the throttle a bit, it straightened out.

Someone just suggested to me to clean out the throttle body. I assume my mechanic did this, but you know what happens when we assume. Someone also suggested the cam and crank sensors, but I'm sure he was just guessing.
_________________________
dave sobel
01 LX Sport
85 Crown Vic LTD - crashed
86 Grand Marquis - retired
Dad's 96 Town Car

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#2568569 - 07/29/12 12:48 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
Leadfoot Offline
Climber

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 977
Loc: Montreal, Qc, Canada
still sounds like a fuel problem to me, fuel injectors?
_________________________
-Dave

2003 P74 Crown Victoria LX Spruce Green- TR3650 5speed swap, Marauder Cluster and gauge pod, Marauder spoiler, 04 cvpi, maf and zip tube, dual exhaust, 4.10 gears, metro rear control arms, SQ roll bar without partition, headlight relay upgrade, Pioneer Avic 930BT head unit + Axxess Metra ASWC-1 for steering wheel controls, 17" CVPI rims.
2004 Manual CVPI aka Guinevere - RIP

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#2568687 - 07/29/12 05:28 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
Has anyone tested the "new" TPS? I've had bad luck with them being shot right out of the box. Test is simple, all you need is an analogue volt meter.

probe 2 wires, usually the center and 1 of the two outer wires, 1 combo will give you a steady 5V with the key on, engine off, the other should be around 1V.

On the pair that should give you 1V, slowly open the throttle, watch the needle on the meter, it should move smoothly according to the throttle position, and should read slightly under 5V when the throttle is fully open.

If the voltage is less than 0.5V or more than 1.2V with the throttle closed, replace the sensor. If it reads less than 4.5V throttle full open, replace the sensor. If there are any skips, drops, jumps in the needle sweep that do not correspond to the throttle position, replace the sensor.

The above is pretty general and applies to almost any 3-wire TPS on any EFI system. The TPS on these cars is a sealed, not adjustable unit, so if anything is out of whack, they need to be replaced.
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

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#2569250 - 07/30/12 02:22 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
d73805 Offline
n00b

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 13
Loc: Long Island, NY

Tested the TPS. No joy. The old one had a bad spot in it, but nothing that would have caused my problem.
_________________________
dave sobel
01 LX Sport
85 Crown Vic LTD - crashed
86 Grand Marquis - retired
Dad's 96 Town Car

Top
#2569297 - 07/30/12 03:25 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
hmmm.. Well I swapped all kinds of things from my Merc over the last week, and my Townie still surges too. The Merc didn't do anything like it. Does your town car seem to surge more when the AC is on? Mine does. Needless to say, I'll keep trying to figure it out while I still have a parts car, and I'll keep this thread posted, as well as watch this thread for any updates.

I almost wonder if its a electrical supply issue. hmmm...
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

Top
#2569306 - 07/30/12 03:39 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: BigMerc96]
d73805 Offline
n00b

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 13
Loc: Long Island, NY

It actually improves with the AC on.

My mechanic had the idea of it being an electrical issue, also. He said that when the voltage dropped below 14v, the surging would start. I think the voltage drop was a result of the surging rather than the other way around, but I replaced it any way. No change.

I think that it's some sort of internal vacuum leak (if that's possible), or that the computer isn't reacting to the air intake volume correctly. Further details as they arise. Thanks for the support.
_________________________
dave sobel
01 LX Sport
85 Crown Vic LTD - crashed
86 Grand Marquis - retired
Dad's 96 Town Car

Top
#2569314 - 07/30/12 03:48 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
RollinX151 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1566
Loc: Hollywood, FL
Its seems like the Towncars are in a problematic season. So many years of owning towncars and I have never had the problems I have been having with my current one. (nothing major, just annoying) I think my desperation on finally owning a Cartier pushed me to buy it. From day one I regretted getting this current Towncar just because it was the first time I was on the fence in buying a car. Usually I am completely 100% sure and with this one I was 50, 50 and bought it anyway. It has kind of grown on me but I am waiting to save up some money to sell it and buy something else.
_________________________
1996 Lincoln Town Car "Cartier" - 157K miles, 70mm TB, ADTR high flow intake tube, Magnaflow mufflers w/ high flow cats, MSD wires, MSD coils packs, Autolite Double Platinum plugs, 99' Presidential wheels, 01' Wood steering wheel, All LED interior, 8K HID's...






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#2569501 - 07/30/12 08:46 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
Piranah Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 2114
Loc: Iowa
Ah man, and I was just looking at buying a Town Car. Gonna keep my eye on this thread to see what it could be.
_________________________


1990 Lincoln Town Car Cartier. Best of both worlds.

88 LTD Crown Victoria. Fully optioned. Sold.
01 Grand Marquis. Sold
1994 Lincoln Town Car. Gone.

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#2569535 - 07/30/12 09:22 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
RollinX151 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1566
Loc: Hollywood, FL
It's not common in the towncars. Like I said, I have had quite a few and never had an issue. After all, its a panther with all the same parts as the crown vics and grand marquis.
_________________________
1996 Lincoln Town Car "Cartier" - 157K miles, 70mm TB, ADTR high flow intake tube, Magnaflow mufflers w/ high flow cats, MSD wires, MSD coils packs, Autolite Double Platinum plugs, 99' Presidential wheels, 01' Wood steering wheel, All LED interior, 8K HID's...






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#2569544 - 07/30/12 09:28 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
My next step is to check all the grounds. My neighbor's F150 was having starting issues, along with a surging idle and a few other issues, ended up being the ground strap between the engine and firewall had corroded and was almost gone.
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

Top
#2569811 - 07/31/12 09:41 AM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
d73805 Offline
n00b

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 13
Loc: Long Island, NY

I like the bad ground idea. I've seen a lot of problems in the past traced back to a bad ground. I'll check that out.

Please guys, don't condemn all Town Cars. Especially this generation. They look great, ride great, are extremely safe, reliable, and cheap to maintain.
_________________________
dave sobel
01 LX Sport
85 Crown Vic LTD - crashed
86 Grand Marquis - retired
Dad's 96 Town Car

Top
#2569855 - 07/31/12 11:01 AM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
I may be on to something here... I so much as looked at the ground cable between the rear of the engine and the firewall, and the end of its all like, "I'm gonna go over here". It fell off of the badly corroded cable. So 2 ring terminals, a foot of 10-gauge, some heat shrink, and plenty of curse words and its changed. Fair warning, the bolt it attaches to on the back of the engine is like the worst possible space to try and work with. Its a good thing I've got bony hands, otherwise the wiper cowl might have to come out. I think if I ever have to do another one, I'll just find a different bolt on the engine block, save myself the headache.

I'll update you guys as to whether its fixed or not after I drive it a bit.
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

Top
#2569930 - 07/31/12 01:13 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
RollinX151 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1566
Loc: Hollywood, FL
I never shot down all towncars. In fact the opposite. I actually mentioned on my last comment that the minor problems I am having now have been the only time in my past 6 towncars.

Bigmerc, can you post some pictures of what you saw and did. It would he good info.
_________________________
1996 Lincoln Town Car "Cartier" - 157K miles, 70mm TB, ADTR high flow intake tube, Magnaflow mufflers w/ high flow cats, MSD wires, MSD coils packs, Autolite Double Platinum plugs, 99' Presidential wheels, 01' Wood steering wheel, All LED interior, 8K HID's...






Top
#2570863 - 08/01/12 03:46 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
It still surges. frown All well, that ground was definitely bad anyway. Mine only seems to surge when the AC is on, so I'm still thinking electrical. Might try the bigger (and newer) battery out of the Mercury next since that's easy.

As for the ground I replaced, look just below the wiper cowl behind the passenger side valve cover, you'll see a braided copper ground strap. It goes from a tab on the firewall to the bolt for the DPFE bracket behind the head. Can't miss it.
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

Top
#2570897 - 08/01/12 05:00 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
Jeff_from_jeffco Offline
Climber

Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 538
Loc: Mo, jefferson country
anyone thought maybe the compressor is starting to slip/lockup
_________________________
2000 p71 police interceptor from Town n County
Aftermarket stereo with 4 12 inch audiopipe subwoofers and 2 1500w rms amps 1 ohm stable smile
top speed run so far of 135
159,xxx Still running like a champ
jmod- with no springs
99 PCM/MAF, bumper tucked, 200 amp alternator upgrade, headlamp relay mod, wig wags, 102 inch whip with cb. - all done with ctrichsler's help

Other vehicles:
2004 cummins turbo diesel - 111k
2005 dodge SRT-10 pickup 37k miles
1995 dodge 1500 206k miles

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#2570898 - 08/01/12 05:04 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
Derek19CrownVic Offline
Traitor.
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/24/09
Posts: 4835
Loc: Deh Island
A few months ago, my '97 would stall out at intersections and drive thru's, whenever the car was stopped. People said that it was the IAC. I never changed the IAC, but the car has since stopped stalling. Don't know if this could be related, but trying to give some insight.


Kinda weird ..


& no, I will not be giving up on aero town cars or any panthers.
_________________________
U all 'N


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#2570908 - 08/01/12 05:19 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
RollinX151 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1566
Loc: Hollywood, FL
Yeah my towncar was stalling out like 4 months ago and I got a CEL. I changed the air filter, cleaned the throttle body, cleaned the IAC, cleaned MAF, changed fuel filter and added lucas fuel additive. It never did again and CEL has not come back. It actually stalled out the other day randomly when i got to a red light. This has happened with my 2 past 97's as well. It has never been a big deal since it does it every few months and it starts right back up. It's weird though.
_________________________
1996 Lincoln Town Car "Cartier" - 157K miles, 70mm TB, ADTR high flow intake tube, Magnaflow mufflers w/ high flow cats, MSD wires, MSD coils packs, Autolite Double Platinum plugs, 99' Presidential wheels, 01' Wood steering wheel, All LED interior, 8K HID's...






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#2570918 - 08/01/12 05:36 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
RollinX151 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1566
Loc: Hollywood, FL
I might just change the IAC since its pretty inexpensive
_________________________
1996 Lincoln Town Car "Cartier" - 157K miles, 70mm TB, ADTR high flow intake tube, Magnaflow mufflers w/ high flow cats, MSD wires, MSD coils packs, Autolite Double Platinum plugs, 99' Presidential wheels, 01' Wood steering wheel, All LED interior, 8K HID's...






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#2570945 - 08/01/12 06:04 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
QuicksterP71 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 2114
Loc: Ma.
i suspect something dealing with fuel. I would be interested in seeing what the fuel pressure was doing while it was surging
_________________________

1997 Crown Vic P71 95.000 miles Formerly Mass Correctional Vehicle, Buying a new Vic one part at a time. Ported and polished plenum, 70mm throttle body, Remote starter, Body Work and New Paint Job, 35% window tint, HPP Wheels off a 96, Pioneer deh-1100mp, Pioneer TS-A6882R 6*8, Pioneer Premier TS-A933P 6*9

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#2570958 - 08/01/12 06:29 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
I did a new fuel filter today, still surging.

I'm using the IAC, TPS, MAF, TB, Airbox and filter all from the Mercury, which didn't surge, and doesn't now with all the Town Car parts on it. Which officially rules out all the parts I'd usually suspect. Granted I can't really drive the Merc what with the bent frame and busted suspension, but it seems to idle fine.

IDK if its at all related, but the mechanical fan in the Town Car seems to run alot more than the Mercury's did, so I'll probably either delete it, or grab the one from the other car.
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

Top
#2570967 - 08/01/12 06:45 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: BigMerc96]
olopezm Offline
Member

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 483
Loc: Irapuato, Mexico
Originally Posted By: BigMerc96
officially rules out all the parts I'd usually suspect.

IDK if its at all related, but the mechanical fan in the Town Car seems to run alot more than the Mercury's did, so I'll probably either delete it, or grab the one from the other car.


Maybe an ECT or IAT problem?

Testing procedure

Oscar.
_________________________
1995 Lincoln Town Car Signature
1997 Pontiac Grand Prix GT
2000 Ford Windstar SE

"If you don't agree with me I respect you; if I don't agree with you I'm an ignorant? Nice thinking smart guy...

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#2571091 - 08/01/12 10:01 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
DOdoubleGMarquis Offline
Rookie

Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 74
Loc: .aL ,tropeverhS
Originally Posted By: d73805

I've searched the forum and haven't found any good answers. Hopefully someone's got an idea.
My 96 Town car, after it comes to temperature, the idle surges up and down. Mostly down. Many times so violently that it will stall. Some days it's fine, but yesterday it was so bad that I couldn't drive it home from work. My mechanic has been working on it on and off for the last month and things haven't improved. He tends to be pretty sharp and worked as a Ford mechanic up until the mid 90s.
So far we've changed: (Some for the sake of maintenance)
Plugs, wires, fuel filter, air filter, pcv
Intake manifold, thermostat, all hoses
IAC valve
Mass air flow sensor
EGR valve and EGR solenoid
Throttle position sensor
Temperature sensor
Catalytic converters


There are no external vacuum leaks, fuel pressure is good. Any ideas? My next step will be to call Car Talk, so they can publicly humiliate me by forcing me to make engine noises on the air. Thanks.



Any way to test the PCM to be certain its not the culprit?

Reason I ask; I had an '89 Olds Cutlass Cierra years ago that put me through the same exercise.

Random surging and stalling.

From reading the codes and comparing to the Haynes, I went on a wild goose chase of replacing all manner of sensors and such. IAC, MAF, TPS, O2, EGR etc.

Problem continued to get worse.

Finally had a retired mechanic friend go over the car & history with me. He then suggested a performance shop take a look at it with their "big computer". Right away they identified the little black box that sat under the drivers seat. The brain that all those sensors fed information to. IIRC had a crack in a trace on the pcb. They replaced it with a new one and all the problems and codes vanished.


Edited by DOdoubleGMarquis (08/01/12 10:02 PM)
_________________________
'97 Grand Marquis LS (aero) -- virtually unmodded ~160k miles

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#2571250 - 08/02/12 08:20 AM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: olopezm]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
Originally Posted By: olopezm
Originally Posted By: BigMerc96
officially rules out all the parts I'd usually suspect.

IDK if its at all related, but the mechanical fan in the Town Car seems to run alot more than the Mercury's did, so I'll probably either delete it, or grab the one from the other car.


Maybe an ECT or IAT problem?

Testing procedure

Oscar.
I have the IAT from the Merc on the town car. I'll grab the ECT sensors tho, they were replaced with the intake on the Merc, so 3x,000 miles ago. I don't see alot of point in testing these easy to swap sensors when I have a whole car that ran fine that I can grab them from.

Wonder in the '96 Merc PCM can run a '97 Town Car...I bet it could.. Hope it doesn't come to that tho.
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

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#2571338 - 08/02/12 11:12 AM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
RollinX151 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1566
Loc: Hollywood, FL
BigMerc, what is it exactly that your car does? When does it do it?
_________________________
1996 Lincoln Town Car "Cartier" - 157K miles, 70mm TB, ADTR high flow intake tube, Magnaflow mufflers w/ high flow cats, MSD wires, MSD coils packs, Autolite Double Platinum plugs, 99' Presidential wheels, 01' Wood steering wheel, All LED interior, 8K HID's...






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#2571408 - 08/02/12 12:43 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
Surges really badly at idle, just like the OPs. Only difference is that mine hasn't stalled yet, but it gets close. Mine surges at idle all the time, but only slightly unless I have the AC on, then its bad enough that it feels like its going to stall. Also seems to be worse when its at running temp.

Its more annoying than anything, car runs fine otherwise and seems to be getting good gas mileage seeing as I have yet to get less than 21mpg mixed driving.
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

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#2571433 - 08/02/12 01:10 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
RollinX151 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1566
Loc: Hollywood, FL
Does it have any hesitation when driving? Mine started doing that randomly after it got a major power loss on the highway and stalled. Then it would start and sputter. I changed the plugs and wires and its fine now.

Or you'd never know, maybe the towncar is cammed LOL
_________________________
1996 Lincoln Town Car "Cartier" - 157K miles, 70mm TB, ADTR high flow intake tube, Magnaflow mufflers w/ high flow cats, MSD wires, MSD coils packs, Autolite Double Platinum plugs, 99' Presidential wheels, 01' Wood steering wheel, All LED interior, 8K HID's...






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#2571550 - 08/02/12 04:08 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
well, it does have the original plugs and wires, so its due for a change. Was gonna do that soon anyway. Might move that up on my list. It does not seem to be down on power at all, starts easy, no hesitation, just the surging at idle.
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

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#2571612 - 08/02/12 05:55 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
RollinX151 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1566
Loc: Hollywood, FL
Mine was the same. It was perfectly fine and then one day I lose power and it starts, surges and sometimes stalls. Changed the plugs and wires about 2 weeks ago and it's still fine. I used Bosch platinum plugs and bosch wires. I would normally buy motorcraft but it was an emergency. these work fine anyway and I had used them before on my 97 towncar without problems. My car also had the original plugs and wires but at 136,000 miles and 1 year older lol.
_________________________
1996 Lincoln Town Car "Cartier" - 157K miles, 70mm TB, ADTR high flow intake tube, Magnaflow mufflers w/ high flow cats, MSD wires, MSD coils packs, Autolite Double Platinum plugs, 99' Presidential wheels, 01' Wood steering wheel, All LED interior, 8K HID's...






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#2571653 - 08/02/12 07:27 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: BigMerc96]
olopezm Offline
Member

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 483
Loc: Irapuato, Mexico
Originally Posted By: BigMerc96
Surges really badly at idle, just like the OPs. Only difference is that mine hasn't stalled yet, but it gets close. Mine surges at idle all the time, but only slightly unless I have the AC on, then its bad enough that it feels like its going to stall. Also seems to be worse when its at running temp.

Its more annoying than anything, car runs fine otherwise and seems to be getting good gas mileage seeing as I have yet to get less than 21mpg mixed driving.


Mine used to surge at idle in gear and seemed like it was about to stall too. Problem was old spark plugs and got fouled somehow. After changing them everything got back to normal.

Dd you try the ECT or IAT?

Oscar.
_________________________
1995 Lincoln Town Car Signature
1997 Pontiac Grand Prix GT
2000 Ford Windstar SE

"If you don't agree with me I respect you; if I don't agree with you I'm an ignorant? Nice thinking smart guy...

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#2572084 - 08/03/12 12:18 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
New plugs are in. No change. I thought maybe I had fixed it, then I took it on the highway, when I got off, it started surging just as bad as always. Think I'll grab the wires and coolant sensors from the Merc. I ordered a set of wires because the only ones I could get locally are the same ones I have on the Merc, and those never did fit right.

It does seem to have a bit more power tho. The old plugs looked pretty healthy, just a touch lean which is to be expected with how much it was pinging when I got it (very dirty MAF). The gap on them was quite large, didn't measure them, but probably at least .06". New ones went in at .052".
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

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#2572154 - 08/03/12 03:05 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
watkd Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 4352
Loc: Tucson, AZ
BigMerc nice car.

Time to go to dealership?
_________________________
1996 Grand Marquis GS
247K

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#2572205 - 08/03/12 04:44 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
David1996 Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 32
Loc: Richland, WA State, USA
Have the fuel pressure checked. It should be at a minimum 35 psi. When was your last fuel filter done? You could have a clogged fuel filter? You could stall if the Idle Air Control (IAC) valve is bad/has carbon build-up. The IAC is located on the side of the throttle body on top of the intake. Might try a new IAC if you find it is dirty, I bet it is if it is the original one. Hope this Helps.
_________________________
I hope this is helpful.

1996 P71 (red with black fender)

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#2572224 - 08/03/12 05:18 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: David1996]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
Originally Posted By: David1996
Have the fuel pressure checked. It should be at a minimum 35 psi. When was your last fuel filter done? You could have a clogged fuel filter? You could stall if the Idle Air Control (IAC) valve is bad/has carbon build-up. The IAC is located on the side of the throttle body on top of the intake. Might try a new IAC if you find it is dirty, I bet it is if it is the original one. Hope this Helps.
IAC is from the wrecked Merc which didn't surge, idled fine, that was the first thing I tried since I had one. I changed the fuel filter the other day with no change.

Following my theory that it was a voltage issue, I swapped the battery from the Merc into the Town Car. And!! wait for it!! NO MORE SURGING IDLE! The two batteries are both group 65, 650CCA batteries, the one from the Merc is even older, but it seems that was what it was. Be interesting to see if it comes back in a few days, but I hope not.
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

Top
#2572233 - 08/03/12 05:43 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
QuicksterP71 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 2114
Loc: Ma.
congrats on finding the problem Merc.
_________________________

1997 Crown Vic P71 95.000 miles Formerly Mass Correctional Vehicle, Buying a new Vic one part at a time. Ported and polished plenum, 70mm throttle body, Remote starter, Body Work and New Paint Job, 35% window tint, HPP Wheels off a 96, Pioneer deh-1100mp, Pioneer TS-A6882R 6*8, Pioneer Premier TS-A933P 6*9

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#2572246 - 08/03/12 06:26 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
Chevyguy Offline
Poobah

Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 8281
Loc: Winchester Mass
Yeah stuff like this is a 23$#@23#@$@#$#@$. Hate to see people listing off several hundreds of $$ worth of parts swapping only to have the exact same problem.

My 96 always ran good even with the blown piston, would shake in drive and misfired till you got moving but sill idled smooth.
_________________________
2004 MarauderM79 104K miles Jmod!! Lidio 93 tune for the track BOC 91 octane street tune 14.85 @95.63
2004 Crown Vic LX 145K Silver Birch Light flint leather FMX1 04 P-71 PCM swap 70 mm TB Custom shorting wire harness. 28/ 21mm MM swaybars Monroe severe duty shocks. Marauder subwoofer and painted cap heated mirrors. GT-500 Wheels NEED DUAL EXHAUST


Project car 74 Chevy Laguna type S-3, # match 400 SBC

Previous rides
93 P-71 2001 P-73, 94 TC Exec, 96 TC Signature

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#2572249 - 08/03/12 06:40 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
Well, parts car FTW I guess, all the parts swapping I did cost me nothing but a bit of time. The stuff that did cost money were maintenance items that needed done anyway. TBH, I was never really worried about it, just annoyed with it because I don't like not being able to figure things out.

All well, I'll keep you guys posted as to whether or not it comes back. If it does, I'll probably swap the Alt too since I have one. I'm more convinced now than ever that its a voltage thing.
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

Top
#2573045 - 08/05/12 11:00 AM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
300+ mile road trip yesterday in 90* heat with the AC on. No surging at all. Never seen a battery that would still start the car with zero issues that would fail that bad under load.
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

Top
#2573113 - 08/05/12 02:05 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: Chevyguy]
David1996 Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 32
Loc: Richland, WA State, USA
Yeah cars do weird things when the battery is about to go.
_________________________
I hope this is helpful.

1996 P71 (red with black fender)

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#2573170 - 08/05/12 04:10 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
RollinX151 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1566
Loc: Hollywood, FL
I might have to swap my battery. my car does stupid things at night. I can see the lights flickering and dim.
_________________________
1996 Lincoln Town Car "Cartier" - 157K miles, 70mm TB, ADTR high flow intake tube, Magnaflow mufflers w/ high flow cats, MSD wires, MSD coils packs, Autolite Double Platinum plugs, 99' Presidential wheels, 01' Wood steering wheel, All LED interior, 8K HID's...






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#2576329 - 08/10/12 01:13 AM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
Stinkin Offline
n00b

Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 39
Loc: NJ, USA
I have the same problem also, My Panther is a 1997 Lincoln TC EXEC.

by surging do you mean: does the car feels like its breathing, the rpms would rise and lower in a manner that sounds like its breathing?

now I changed the IAC the fuel filter, spark plugs and did a seafoam intake treatment which by the way I was expecting a huge amount of smoke coming from my exhaust that i told my local FD not to think there is a fire going on and all I get is a couple of puffs... (talk about disappointment)

anyway I still have the surging in my TC, BUT in my case when I stomp on it nothing happens, wait for it..., then goes but doesnt rev smooth you know it feels as if she is running out of gas, a sputter then keeps on revving.

Maybe Fuel Pump? I dont even know how to test the pressure on this thing.

I also have a Hiss right next to some doohickey thats hanging on top of the black A/C cylinder box (under the hood)it has a round top, made out of plastic.
_________________________
2000 Honda Accord: Living on a Prayer, 120K miles, no timing belt change no trans flush, TICK-TOCK....

1997 Lincoln Town Car: found in the junkyard, rescued, patched up runs good.

when your wife lets you buy a car from the junkyard, you know she loves you!

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#2576403 - 08/10/12 09:14 AM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: Stinkin]
QuicksterP71 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 2114
Loc: Ma.
Originally Posted By: Stinkin
I have the same problem also, My Panther is a 1997 Lincoln TC EXEC.

by surging do you mean: does the car feels like its breathing, the rpms would rise and lower in a manner that sounds like its breathing?

now I changed the IAC the fuel filter, spark plugs and did a seafoam intake treatment which by the way I was expecting a huge amount of smoke coming from my exhaust that i told my local FD not to think there is a fire going on and all I get is a couple of puffs... (talk about disappointment)

anyway I still have the surging in my TC, BUT in my case when I stomp on it nothing happens, wait for it..., then goes but doesnt rev smooth you know it feels as if she is running out of gas, a sputter then keeps on revving.

Maybe Fuel Pump? I dont even know how to test the pressure on this thing.

I also have a Hiss right next to some doohickey thats hanging on top of the black A/C cylinder box (under the hood)it has a round top, made out of plastic.


Is this the thing that is hissing if so it is called an EGR vacuum solenoid. Might want to grab some carb cleaner and spray it around the device and see if you have a vacuum leak. make sure you spray the vacuum line that attach to it also.

[img]http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/additional-prod-images/en/US/wl2/EVS58/14/image/4/[/img]
_________________________

1997 Crown Vic P71 95.000 miles Formerly Mass Correctional Vehicle, Buying a new Vic one part at a time. Ported and polished plenum, 70mm throttle body, Remote starter, Body Work and New Paint Job, 35% window tint, HPP Wheels off a 96, Pioneer deh-1100mp, Pioneer TS-A6882R 6*8, Pioneer Premier TS-A933P 6*9

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#2608005 - 10/08/12 11:24 AM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
d73805 Offline
n00b

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 13
Loc: Long Island, NY
If anyone is still reading this, I fixed my problem! I found a service bulletin (98-22-3) that showed some of my symptoms. It shows an updated PCM that is less sensitive than the original. I replaced mine with a Cardone reman. My symptoms got much less severe, but they were still there.
Mostly on a guess, I tried diagnosing the injectors. While the engine was surging, I unplugged each individual injector. With one certain injector unplugged, the surge cleared up.
Then I pulled all the injectors and put each one in a glass, pressurized the system, and looked for leaking injectors. One was really bad, five were not so good. I replaced them all.
Problem solved. It's like a new car. Thanks for all the support.
_________________________
dave sobel
01 LX Sport
85 Crown Vic LTD - crashed
86 Grand Marquis - retired
Dad's 96 Town Car

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#2608010 - 10/08/12 11:35 AM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
Originally Posted By: d73805
If anyone is still reading this, I fixed my problem! I found a service bulletin (98-22-3) that showed some of my symptoms. It shows an updated PCM that is less sensitive than the original. I replaced mine with a Cardone reman. My symptoms got much less severe, but they were still there.
Mostly on a guess, I tried diagnosing the injectors. While the engine was surging, I unplugged each individual injector. With one certain injector unplugged, the surge cleared up.
Then I pulled all the injectors and put each one in a glass, pressurized the system, and looked for leaking injectors. One was really bad, five were not so good. I replaced them all.
Problem solved. It's like a new car. Thanks for all the support.
Good, I was looking for this thread. Yes, I found that TSB as well, and it matches pretty close to my symptoms. If you guys give me awhile I'll post up the TSB.

My car started surging again after a few weeks after swapping the battery, and I wanted to update this thread but couldn't find it. I'll have to swap out my injectors I guess maybe. I do have another set, so..

My surge/stall did get a ton better after replacing my filler neck, the old one's vent tube was completely snapped off. Cut the amount of times it surged/stalled in 1/2.
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

Top
#2608014 - 10/08/12 11:47 AM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
Chevyguy Offline
Poobah

Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 8281
Loc: Winchester Mass
Well howdy there, injectors leaking like that will certainly cause drivablity issues. I will file this under stuff to consider in the future.

I would be worried about shooting a few injectors off pressurizing the fuel rail while disconnected from the intake. Perhaps Zip ties would be sufficient, though they do "Snap" in place pretty good

Unplugging the injectors while running would be the next best way. The leaky injectors will drop far less rpm vs the good ones and the car may even run with all the injectors unplugged!!
_________________________
2004 MarauderM79 104K miles Jmod!! Lidio 93 tune for the track BOC 91 octane street tune 14.85 @95.63
2004 Crown Vic LX 145K Silver Birch Light flint leather FMX1 04 P-71 PCM swap 70 mm TB Custom shorting wire harness. 28/ 21mm MM swaybars Monroe severe duty shocks. Marauder subwoofer and painted cap heated mirrors. GT-500 Wheels NEED DUAL EXHAUST


Project car 74 Chevy Laguna type S-3, # match 400 SBC

Previous rides
93 P-71 2001 P-73, 94 TC Exec, 96 TC Signature

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#2608024 - 10/08/12 12:07 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
RollinX151 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1566
Loc: Hollywood, FL
I had the same surging> I poured some milk in the oil and gas tank and it drives perfect now. lol j/k
_________________________
1996 Lincoln Town Car "Cartier" - 157K miles, 70mm TB, ADTR high flow intake tube, Magnaflow mufflers w/ high flow cats, MSD wires, MSD coils packs, Autolite Double Platinum plugs, 99' Presidential wheels, 01' Wood steering wheel, All LED interior, 8K HID's...






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#2608139 - 10/08/12 04:32 PM Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling [Re: d73805]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11404
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
I attached a PDF of the Ford TSB 98-22-03


Attachments
tw2203~us~en~file=tw2203.pdf~gen~ref.pdf (95 downloads)
Description: TSB 98-22-03


_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

Top
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Happily consuming the fuel saved by Prius owners!