#2570967 - 08/01/12 07:45 PM
Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling
[Re: BigMerc96]
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Member
Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 483
Loc: Irapuato, Mexico
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officially rules out all the parts I'd usually suspect.
IDK if its at all related, but the mechanical fan in the Town Car seems to run alot more than the Mercury's did, so I'll probably either delete it, or grab the one from the other car. Maybe an ECT or IAT problem? Testing procedure Oscar.
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1995 Lincoln Town Car Signature 1997 Pontiac Grand Prix GT 2000 Ford Windstar SE
"If you don't agree with me I respect you; if I don't agree with you I'm an ignorant? Nice thinking smart guy...
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#2571091 - 08/01/12 11:01 PM
Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling
[Re: d73805]
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Rookie
Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 74
Loc: .aL ,tropeverhS
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I've searched the forum and haven't found any good answers. Hopefully someone's got an idea. My 96 Town car, after it comes to temperature, the idle surges up and down. Mostly down. Many times so violently that it will stall. Some days it's fine, but yesterday it was so bad that I couldn't drive it home from work. My mechanic has been working on it on and off for the last month and things haven't improved. He tends to be pretty sharp and worked as a Ford mechanic up until the mid 90s. So far we've changed: (Some for the sake of maintenance) Plugs, wires, fuel filter, air filter, pcv Intake manifold, thermostat, all hoses IAC valve Mass air flow sensor EGR valve and EGR solenoid Throttle position sensor Temperature sensor Catalytic converters
There are no external vacuum leaks, fuel pressure is good. Any ideas? My next step will be to call Car Talk, so they can publicly humiliate me by forcing me to make engine noises on the air. Thanks.
Any way to test the PCM to be certain its not the culprit? Reason I ask; I had an '89 Olds Cutlass Cierra years ago that put me through the same exercise. Random surging and stalling. From reading the codes and comparing to the Haynes, I went on a wild goose chase of replacing all manner of sensors and such. IAC, MAF, TPS, O2, EGR etc. Problem continued to get worse. Finally had a retired mechanic friend go over the car & history with me. He then suggested a performance shop take a look at it with their "big computer". Right away they identified the little black box that sat under the drivers seat. The brain that all those sensors fed information to. IIRC had a crack in a trace on the pcb. They replaced it with a new one and all the problems and codes vanished.
Edited by DOdoubleGMarquis (08/01/12 11:02 PM)
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'97 Grand Marquis LS (aero) -- virtually unmodded ~320k miles
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#2571250 - 08/02/12 09:20 AM
Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling
[Re: olopezm]
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I know nothing
Posting Addict
Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 19872
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
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officially rules out all the parts I'd usually suspect.
IDK if its at all related, but the mechanical fan in the Town Car seems to run alot more than the Mercury's did, so I'll probably either delete it, or grab the one from the other car. Maybe an ECT or IAT problem? Testing procedure Oscar. I have the IAT from the Merc on the town car. I'll grab the ECT sensors tho, they were replaced with the intake on the Merc, so 3x,000 miles ago. I don't see alot of point in testing these easy to swap sensors when I have a whole car that ran fine that I can grab them from. Wonder in the '96 Merc PCM can run a '97 Town Car...I bet it could.. Hope it doesn't come to that tho.
_________________________
-Steve 2006 Audi A6 ~132k miles, stock. 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~100k miles, slowly acquiring modifications. 1997 Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, cats deleted, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Projector retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit, holistic weight reduction as the parts fall off.. 1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12
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#2571338 - 08/02/12 12:12 PM
Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling
[Re: d73805]
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Over the Hill
Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1633
Loc: Miami, FL
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BigMerc, what is it exactly that your car does? When does it do it?
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2003 Ford Crown Victoria LX Sport - SOLD 2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited X - Family Car 2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Daily 2011 Ford Crown Victoria P71 - SOLD
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#2571408 - 08/02/12 01:43 PM
Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling
[Re: d73805]
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I know nothing
Posting Addict
Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 19872
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
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Surges really badly at idle, just like the OPs. Only difference is that mine hasn't stalled yet, but it gets close. Mine surges at idle all the time, but only slightly unless I have the AC on, then its bad enough that it feels like its going to stall. Also seems to be worse when its at running temp.
Its more annoying than anything, car runs fine otherwise and seems to be getting good gas mileage seeing as I have yet to get less than 21mpg mixed driving.
_________________________
-Steve 2006 Audi A6 ~132k miles, stock. 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~100k miles, slowly acquiring modifications. 1997 Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, cats deleted, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Projector retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit, holistic weight reduction as the parts fall off.. 1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12
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#2571433 - 08/02/12 02:10 PM
Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling
[Re: d73805]
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Over the Hill
Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1633
Loc: Miami, FL
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Does it have any hesitation when driving? Mine started doing that randomly after it got a major power loss on the highway and stalled. Then it would start and sputter. I changed the plugs and wires and its fine now.
Or you'd never know, maybe the towncar is cammed LOL
_________________________
2003 Ford Crown Victoria LX Sport - SOLD 2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited X - Family Car 2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Daily 2011 Ford Crown Victoria P71 - SOLD
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#2571550 - 08/02/12 05:08 PM
Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling
[Re: d73805]
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I know nothing
Posting Addict
Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 19872
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
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well, it does have the original plugs and wires, so its due for a change. Was gonna do that soon anyway. Might move that up on my list. It does not seem to be down on power at all, starts easy, no hesitation, just the surging at idle.
_________________________
-Steve 2006 Audi A6 ~132k miles, stock. 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~100k miles, slowly acquiring modifications. 1997 Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, cats deleted, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Projector retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit, holistic weight reduction as the parts fall off.. 1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12
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#2571612 - 08/02/12 06:55 PM
Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling
[Re: d73805]
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Over the Hill
Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1633
Loc: Miami, FL
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Mine was the same. It was perfectly fine and then one day I lose power and it starts, surges and sometimes stalls. Changed the plugs and wires about 2 weeks ago and it's still fine. I used Bosch platinum plugs and bosch wires. I would normally buy motorcraft but it was an emergency. these work fine anyway and I had used them before on my 97 towncar without problems. My car also had the original plugs and wires but at 136,000 miles and 1 year older lol.
_________________________
2003 Ford Crown Victoria LX Sport - SOLD 2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited X - Family Car 2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Daily 2011 Ford Crown Victoria P71 - SOLD
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#2571653 - 08/02/12 08:27 PM
Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling
[Re: BigMerc96]
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Member
Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 483
Loc: Irapuato, Mexico
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Surges really badly at idle, just like the OPs. Only difference is that mine hasn't stalled yet, but it gets close. Mine surges at idle all the time, but only slightly unless I have the AC on, then its bad enough that it feels like its going to stall. Also seems to be worse when its at running temp.
Its more annoying than anything, car runs fine otherwise and seems to be getting good gas mileage seeing as I have yet to get less than 21mpg mixed driving. Mine used to surge at idle in gear and seemed like it was about to stall too. Problem was old spark plugs and got fouled somehow. After changing them everything got back to normal. Dd you try the ECT or IAT? Oscar.
_________________________
1995 Lincoln Town Car Signature 1997 Pontiac Grand Prix GT 2000 Ford Windstar SE
"If you don't agree with me I respect you; if I don't agree with you I'm an ignorant? Nice thinking smart guy...
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#2572084 - 08/03/12 01:18 PM
Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling
[Re: d73805]
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I know nothing
Posting Addict
Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 19872
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
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New plugs are in. No change. I thought maybe I had fixed it, then I took it on the highway, when I got off, it started surging just as bad as always. Think I'll grab the wires and coolant sensors from the Merc. I ordered a set of wires because the only ones I could get locally are the same ones I have on the Merc, and those never did fit right.
It does seem to have a bit more power tho. The old plugs looked pretty healthy, just a touch lean which is to be expected with how much it was pinging when I got it (very dirty MAF). The gap on them was quite large, didn't measure them, but probably at least .06". New ones went in at .052".
_________________________
-Steve 2006 Audi A6 ~132k miles, stock. 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~100k miles, slowly acquiring modifications. 1997 Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, cats deleted, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Projector retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit, holistic weight reduction as the parts fall off.. 1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12
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#2572205 - 08/03/12 05:44 PM
Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling
[Re: d73805]
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n00b
Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 32
Loc: Richland, WA State, USA
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Have the fuel pressure checked. It should be at a minimum 35 psi. When was your last fuel filter done? You could have a clogged fuel filter? You could stall if the Idle Air Control (IAC) valve is bad/has carbon build-up. The IAC is located on the side of the throttle body on top of the intake. Might try a new IAC if you find it is dirty, I bet it is if it is the original one. Hope this Helps.
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I hope this is helpful.
1996 P71 (red with black fender)
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#2572224 - 08/03/12 06:18 PM
Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling
[Re: David1996]
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I know nothing
Posting Addict
Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 19872
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
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Have the fuel pressure checked. It should be at a minimum 35 psi. When was your last fuel filter done? You could have a clogged fuel filter? You could stall if the Idle Air Control (IAC) valve is bad/has carbon build-up. The IAC is located on the side of the throttle body on top of the intake. Might try a new IAC if you find it is dirty, I bet it is if it is the original one. Hope this Helps. IAC is from the wrecked Merc which didn't surge, idled fine, that was the first thing I tried since I had one. I changed the fuel filter the other day with no change. Following my theory that it was a voltage issue, I swapped the battery from the Merc into the Town Car. And!! wait for it!! NO MORE SURGING IDLE! The two batteries are both group 65, 650CCA batteries, the one from the Merc is even older, but it seems that was what it was. Be interesting to see if it comes back in a few days, but I hope not.
_________________________
-Steve 2006 Audi A6 ~132k miles, stock. 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~100k miles, slowly acquiring modifications. 1997 Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, cats deleted, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Projector retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit, holistic weight reduction as the parts fall off.. 1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12
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#2572233 - 08/03/12 06:43 PM
Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling
[Re: d73805]
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Over the Hill
Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 2114
Loc: Ma.
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congrats on finding the problem Merc.
_________________________
1997 Crown Vic P71 95.000 miles Formerly Mass Correctional Vehicle, Buying a new Vic one part at a time. Ported and polished plenum, 70mm throttle body, Remote starter, Body Work and New Paint Job, 35% window tint, HPP Wheels off a 96, Pioneer deh-1100mp, Pioneer TS-A6882R 6*8, Pioneer Premier TS-A933P 6*9
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#2572246 - 08/03/12 07:26 PM
Re: 96 Town Car surging and stalling
[Re: d73805]
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Poobah
Registered: 01/05/04
Posts: 9450
Loc: Winchester Mass
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Yeah stuff like this is a 23$#@23#@$@#$#@$. Hate to see people listing off several hundreds of $$ worth of parts swapping only to have the exact same problem.
My 96 always ran good even with the blown piston, would shake in drive and misfired till you got moving but sill idled smooth.
_________________________
2004 MarauderM79 155K miles Jmod!! Rockin Stock tune Daily, Muscle Merc tune for track 14.85 @95.63 2004 Crown Vic LX SOLD!! New Daily 2016 Dodge Charger R/T Road and track, purchase with 16K now 23K after 3 months. 5.7 Hemi, 8 speed ZF trans 3.06 open rear 13.98 @ 99.2 mph 4740 lbs with driver!! R.I.P Photobucket 10 years of hosting down the drain Project car 74 Chevy Laguna type S-3, # match 400 SBCPrevious rides 93 P-71 2001 P-73, 94 TC Exec, 96 TC Signature, 04 LX
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