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#2744420 - 08/11/13 06:23 AM built 4r70w ppl come in
aerocvpi96 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 188
Loc: ohio, painsville, 44077
my 2-3 shift got me again.. the intermediate shaft for 2-3 snaps loose 3rd and up .. so my question is..

has anybody heard good info or USED the Extreme Duty extra hard intermediate shaft for the 4r70w?!?!?! did some google searches and pretty much ppl just copy and pasted the info off PATC...how much power can it hold and withstand?
_________________________

1996 P71 120k
1986 buick T-Type 65k
1986 ford F-350 with EFI conversion 28k

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#2744426 - 08/11/13 08:07 AM Re: built 4r70w ppl come in [Re: aerocvpi96]
Allaa_Hassan Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 226
Loc: Mecca, Saudi Arabia
you need some parts out of 5.4l 4R70W transmission

planetary gear set: XL3Z-7A398-AA
forward sun gear: XL3Z-7A399-AA
Stub Shaft: F8AZ-7F351-AA

Building a bullet Proof 4R70W
http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/page7.shtml

and also SONNAX Sure Cure SC-AODE-1
http://www.sonnax.com/system/instructions/SC-AODE-96-IN.pdf


and of course the famous J-MOD
http://www.crownvic.net/tech/4R70Wnotes.pdf


useful thread
http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2641293

_________________________
2000 P71
Click to reveal..
  • Drivetrain: 4.6L PI Engine swap, -10cc Dish DSS forged pistons, 4.6L 3V Stock windage-tray, Ford GT rockers, 04 P71 80mm MAF/air-box/Zip-Tube, 78mm BBK 1780 TB/Plenum, FRPP 24lb Injectors, Walbro 190LPH Fuel Pump, MSD COP, Steeda UDP, EMP Water Pump, SW LT headers O/R on stock dual exhaust, J-Mod, B&M Trans Deep-Pan, External Trans Oil filter, MMC Drive-shaft, 3.55 Diff/LSD M-4700-C, ScanGage II, BOC 91 Tune.
  • Suspension: ENS suspension & body-mount parts, 21mm CV HPP rear sway-bar, Monroe Severe Service Shocks.
  • Appearance: MGM front corners, Headlight relay harness, CV Special-Edition Grill, LED rear taillights.
  • Audio: JVC KDX50BT Head unit, Pioneer TS-A6874R 6"x8" 3-way Speakers, Kicker 10CVT654 Sub/MM Factory Sub-Box/Rockford Fosgate Prime R125-2 Amp.

Other Ride:
2008 Ford Explorer XLT 4WD V6 - Lifted & Loaded

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#2744621 - 08/11/13 08:38 PM Re: built 4r70w ppl come in [Re: aerocvpi96]
BigNSlow Offline
left the building
Metroplectic

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 38061
Loc:
Don't buy 5.4 parts listed in the tccoa article. When I rebuilt my tranny I bought all 5.4 parts that were mentioned in tccoa article. There may have been a difference when the article was first written but the parts that you will get now are the same as 4.6. Most of the parts that I've gotten were actually worse quality than what I pulled out. For example the planetary gears had aluminum bushings instead of brass which are softer. Welds looks sloppier as well.
_________________________

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#2745109 - 08/13/13 10:16 AM Re: built 4r70w ppl come in [Re: aerocvpi96]
88grandmarq Offline

4R70W rebuilder
Poobah

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 5510
Loc: North Georgia
Originally Posted By: aerocvpi96
my 2-3 shift got me again.. the intermediate shaft for 2-3 snaps loose 3rd and up .. so my question is..

has anybody heard good info or USED the Extreme Duty extra hard intermediate shaft for the 4r70w?!?!?! did some google searches and pretty much ppl just copy and pasted the info off PATC...how much power can it hold and withstand?


having built many transmissions, none of your post makes sense.

"2-3 shift got you again"? how? what happened?
does it not shift at all? does it slip?

what do you mean the intermediate shaft "snaps loose" ? its a solid shaft and has no room to move. it's either there or it's not.

If this is a stock 96 CV, I doubt the engine makes enough power to break any hard parts in the transmission.
_________________________
2006 F-250 XLT SuperCab 4wd - 6.0L Diesel, 5R110W Auto, 3.73 limited slip.
Retired U.S. Border Patrol Unit# K60012

2003 Lincoln Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 09/2011
89 Crown Victoria LX- HPP Box - SOLD 09/2010
88 Grand Marquis LS - The original - Totaled 5/2006

I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E Transmissions, check out my Facebook page for my latest project; https://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Georgia-Transmission-Auto-Repair/348414635312478

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#2745132 - 08/13/13 12:01 PM Re: built 4r70w ppl come in [Re: 88grandmarq]
124neta Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Crook County, IL
Originally Posted By: 88grandmarq

"2-3 shift got you again"? how? what happened?
does it not shift at all? does it slip?

Think he is saying he lost 3rd/4th entirely. "third and up"
Originally Posted By: 88grandmarq

what do you mean the intermediate shaft "snaps loose" ? its a solid shaft and has no room to move. it's either there or it's not.

It seems intermediate shaft breakage is common in the mustang community, although I understand their is much more mustangs making 300+. IIRC the shaft snaps right where it splines into forward clutch.

I'm very curious of exactly what symptoms the OP's trans is displaying. I have had a hunch that this is causing my problems based on stories I've read online.

Please can we get a detailed account. Also, you make it sound as though this happened in the past, "got you again", am I reading that right?
_________________________

propensity for self-distraction

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#2745176 - 08/13/13 03:13 PM Re: built 4r70w ppl come in [Re: aerocvpi96]
BigMerc96 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 11254
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
That car is far from stock and gets beat on regularly. If anyone is gonna snap internal components of the trans, it'll be that car.
_________________________
-Steve

1997 Town Car Cartier ~114k miles, 70mm TB, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, rear cat delete, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, Marauder/HPP rear sway bar, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Blinker Mod, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit.. Smashed 1/13/13....I fixt it..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown
Originally Posted By: BillyBishop
I've read a lot of threads on CVN, and this one is probably the worst.

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#2745178 - 08/13/13 03:28 PM Re: built 4r70w ppl come in [Re: BigMerc96]
88grandmarq Offline

4R70W rebuilder
Poobah

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 5510
Loc: North Georgia
Originally Posted By: BigMerc96
That car is far from stock and gets beat on regularly. If anyone is gonna snap internal components of the trans, it'll be that car.


this is why I asked for clarification. tell me what modifications have been done, how much power the engine is making and what exactly is happening with the transmission.
_________________________
2006 F-250 XLT SuperCab 4wd - 6.0L Diesel, 5R110W Auto, 3.73 limited slip.
Retired U.S. Border Patrol Unit# K60012

2003 Lincoln Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 09/2011
89 Crown Victoria LX- HPP Box - SOLD 09/2010
88 Grand Marquis LS - The original - Totaled 5/2006

I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E Transmissions, check out my Facebook page for my latest project; https://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Georgia-Transmission-Auto-Repair/348414635312478

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#2745617 - 08/14/13 08:50 PM Re: built 4r70w ppl come in [Re: 88grandmarq]
88grandmarq Offline

4R70W rebuilder
Poobah

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 5510
Loc: North Georgia
Originally Posted By: 88grandmarq
Originally Posted By: BigMerc96
That car is far from stock and gets beat on regularly. If anyone is gonna snap internal components of the trans, it'll be that car.


this is why I asked for clarification. tell me what modifications have been done, how much power the engine is making and what exactly is happening with the transmission.


well?????????? confused
_________________________
2006 F-250 XLT SuperCab 4wd - 6.0L Diesel, 5R110W Auto, 3.73 limited slip.
Retired U.S. Border Patrol Unit# K60012

2003 Lincoln Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 09/2011
89 Crown Victoria LX- HPP Box - SOLD 09/2010
88 Grand Marquis LS - The original - Totaled 5/2006

I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E Transmissions, check out my Facebook page for my latest project; https://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Georgia-Transmission-Auto-Repair/348414635312478

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#2745992 - 08/15/13 07:56 PM Re: built 4r70w ppl come in [Re: aerocvpi96]
124neta Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Crook County, IL
To be fair, he wasn't really asking for a diagnosis. Sounded like he wanted input from people who purchased or knew anything about Heavy Duty shafts.

That being said, there really doesn't seem like there is much info out there about them. Other than descriptions like "hardened" or "severe duty". I would be concerned that I was just buying a $15 part with a $150 price tag. I came across a thread on a mustang forum about some guy that bought a "built" trans, which was supposed to come with a "HD" shaft, after it snapped his rebuilder informed him it was a stock part. IIRC the trans was from PATC.

Edit: I see the PATC part looks very different from a ford part(has that golden sheen that many higher strength bolts have. Hard to get duped there i guess. They dont seem to make any guarantees tho. I guess its a good sign that there isn't people complaining about them breaking. I would think you would see complaint treads about their parts if that was an issue.


Edited by 124neta (08/15/13 08:15 PM)
_________________________

propensity for self-distraction

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#2746043 - 08/15/13 09:21 PM Re: built 4r70w ppl come in [Re: 124neta]
88grandmarq Offline

4R70W rebuilder
Poobah

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 5510
Loc: North Georgia
Originally Posted By: 124neta
To be fair, he wasn't really asking for a diagnosis. Sounded like he wanted input from people who purchased or knew anything about Heavy Duty shafts.

That being said, there really doesn't seem like there is much info out there about them. Other than descriptions like "hardened" or "severe duty". I would be concerned that I was just buying a $15 part with a $150 price tag. I came across a thread on a mustang forum about some guy that bought a "built" trans, which was supposed to come with a "HD" shaft, after it snapped his rebuilder informed him it was a stock part. IIRC the trans was from PATC.

Edit: I see the PATC part looks very different from a ford part(has that golden sheen that many higher strength bolts have. Hard to get duped there i guess. They dont seem to make any guarantees tho. I guess its a good sign that there isn't people complaining about them breaking. I would think you would see complaint treads about their parts if that was an issue.


to be even more fair, I am not trying to diagnose the problem. all I am asking for is a more accurate description of what the problem is and what he is experiencing with the transmission.

Several things make the 2-3 shift happen and it's more likely one of those parts has failed, before jumping to conclusions that the stub/intermediate shaft is broken.

to answer the question, this it the best shaft you can buy, at the best price. I know of the owner at this machine shop and he has excellent reputation.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260916839162?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Regarding planetary gears, they were update for 2004+ models. the case is hardened and the 2 halves are tig welded together.
_________________________
2006 F-250 XLT SuperCab 4wd - 6.0L Diesel, 5R110W Auto, 3.73 limited slip.
Retired U.S. Border Patrol Unit# K60012

2003 Lincoln Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 09/2011
89 Crown Victoria LX- HPP Box - SOLD 09/2010
88 Grand Marquis LS - The original - Totaled 5/2006

I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E Transmissions, check out my Facebook page for my latest project; https://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Georgia-Transmission-Auto-Repair/348414635312478

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#2746048 - 08/15/13 09:29 PM Re: built 4r70w ppl come in [Re: Allaa_Hassan]
88grandmarq Offline

4R70W rebuilder
Poobah

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 5510
Loc: North Georgia
Originally Posted By: Allaa_Hassan
you need some parts out of 5.4l 4R70W transmission

planetary gear set: XL3Z-7A398-AA
forward sun gear: XL3Z-7A399-AA
Stub Shaft: F8AZ-7F351-AA


and also SONNAX Sure Cure SC-AODE-1
http://www.sonnax.com/system/instructions/SC-AODE-96-IN.pdf

and of course the famous J-MOD
http://www.crownvic.net/tech/4R70Wnotes.pdf


Most (if not all) of the 5.4L transmission part#'s Jerry lists in the TCCOA article are now obsolete and have been replaced/superseded with other production parts.

why would install a shift kit and do a Jmod?
_________________________
2006 F-250 XLT SuperCab 4wd - 6.0L Diesel, 5R110W Auto, 3.73 limited slip.
Retired U.S. Border Patrol Unit# K60012

2003 Lincoln Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 09/2011
89 Crown Victoria LX- HPP Box - SOLD 09/2010
88 Grand Marquis LS - The original - Totaled 5/2006

I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E Transmissions, check out my Facebook page for my latest project; https://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Georgia-Transmission-Auto-Repair/348414635312478

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#2746091 - 08/15/13 11:18 PM Re: built 4r70w ppl come in [Re: 88grandmarq]
Allaa_Hassan Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 226
Loc: Mecca, Saudi Arabia
Originally Posted By: 88grandmarq
Originally Posted By: Allaa_Hassan
you need some parts out of 5.4l 4R70W transmission

planetary gear set: XL3Z-7A398-AA
forward sun gear: XL3Z-7A399-AA
Stub Shaft: F8AZ-7F351-AA


and also SONNAX Sure Cure SC-AODE-1
http://www.sonnax.com/system/instructions/SC-AODE-96-IN.pdf

and of course the famous J-MOD
http://www.crownvic.net/tech/4R70Wnotes.pdf


Most (if not all) of the 5.4L transmission part#'s Jerry lists in the TCCOA article are now obsolete and have been replaced/superseded with other production parts.

why would install a shift kit and do a Jmod?


5.4L transmission superseded parts are reviewed and enhanced parts, and I already installed them in my transmission

SONNAX SC-AODE-1 is not a shift kit! It is a design upgrade solution for known problems for 4R70W transmission.

J-MOD in other hand is a must for 4R70W for the reasons mentioned in this theard:
http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2746081#Post2746081

and there is no redundancy doing them both.
_________________________
2000 P71
Click to reveal..
  • Drivetrain: 4.6L PI Engine swap, -10cc Dish DSS forged pistons, 4.6L 3V Stock windage-tray, Ford GT rockers, 04 P71 80mm MAF/air-box/Zip-Tube, 78mm BBK 1780 TB/Plenum, FRPP 24lb Injectors, Walbro 190LPH Fuel Pump, MSD COP, Steeda UDP, EMP Water Pump, SW LT headers O/R on stock dual exhaust, J-Mod, B&M Trans Deep-Pan, External Trans Oil filter, MMC Drive-shaft, 3.55 Diff/LSD M-4700-C, ScanGage II, BOC 91 Tune.
  • Suspension: ENS suspension & body-mount parts, 21mm CV HPP rear sway-bar, Monroe Severe Service Shocks.
  • Appearance: MGM front corners, Headlight relay harness, CV Special-Edition Grill, LED rear taillights.
  • Audio: JVC KDX50BT Head unit, Pioneer TS-A6874R 6"x8" 3-way Speakers, Kicker 10CVT654 Sub/MM Factory Sub-Box/Rockford Fosgate Prime R125-2 Amp.

Other Ride:
2008 Ford Explorer XLT 4WD V6 - Lifted & Loaded

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#2746180 - 08/16/13 08:42 AM Re: built 4r70w ppl come in [Re: 88grandmarq]
88grandmarq Offline

4R70W rebuilder
Poobah

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 5510
Loc: North Georgia
Originally Posted By: 88grandmarq

to answer the question, this it the best shaft you can buy, at the best price. I know of the owner at this machine shop and he has excellent reputation.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260916839162?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


not sure why the link for shaft didnt work, lets try again

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-AODE-4R70W-...2fa&vxp=mtr
_________________________
2006 F-250 XLT SuperCab 4wd - 6.0L Diesel, 5R110W Auto, 3.73 limited slip.
Retired U.S. Border Patrol Unit# K60012

2003 Lincoln Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 09/2011
89 Crown Victoria LX- HPP Box - SOLD 09/2010
88 Grand Marquis LS - The original - Totaled 5/2006

I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E Transmissions, check out my Facebook page for my latest project; https://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Georgia-Transmission-Auto-Repair/348414635312478

Top
#2746194 - 08/16/13 09:25 AM Re: built 4r70w ppl come in [Re: Allaa_Hassan]
88grandmarq Offline

4R70W rebuilder
Poobah

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 5510
Loc: North Georgia
Originally Posted By: Allaa_Hassan
Originally Posted By: 88grandmarq
Originally Posted By: Allaa_Hassan
you need some parts out of 5.4l 4R70W transmission

planetary gear set: XL3Z-7A398-AA
forward sun gear: XL3Z-7A399-AA
Stub Shaft: F8AZ-7F351-AA


and also SONNAX Sure Cure SC-AODE-1
http://www.sonnax.com/system/instructions/SC-AODE-96-IN.pdf

and of course the famous J-MOD
http://www.crownvic.net/tech/4R70Wnotes.pdf


Most (if not all) of the 5.4L transmission part#'s Jerry lists in the TCCOA article are now obsolete and have been replaced/superseded with other production parts.

why would install a shift kit and do a Jmod?


5.4L transmission superseded parts are reviewed and enhanced parts, and I already installed them in my transmission

SONNAX SC-AODE-1 is not a shift kit! It is a design upgrade solution for known problems for 4R70W transmission.

J-MOD in other hand is a must for 4R70W for the reasons mentioned in this theard:
http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2746081#Post2746081

and there is no redundancy doing them both.


Like I said, the planetary gear set was updated in 2004, the case is hardened and the halves are now tig welded together.


XL3Z-7A398-AA 5.4 planetary carrier = 4L3Z-7A398-AA

XL3Z-7A399-AA forward sun gear = 4L3Z-7D234-AA

btw, the updated Sun gear will NOT interchange into an earlier transmission by itself. To update an earlier transmission it requires the updated sun gear, updated torrington bearing and updated sun shell.

My mistake on the Sonnax kit, I have never installed one of these kits and was not aware what parts were in it. sounds like good kit.
_________________________
2006 F-250 XLT SuperCab 4wd - 6.0L Diesel, 5R110W Auto, 3.73 limited slip.
Retired U.S. Border Patrol Unit# K60012

2003 Lincoln Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 09/2011
89 Crown Victoria LX- HPP Box - SOLD 09/2010
88 Grand Marquis LS - The original - Totaled 5/2006

I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E Transmissions, check out my Facebook page for my latest project; https://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Georgia-Transmission-Auto-Repair/348414635312478

Top
#2746392 - 08/16/13 09:26 PM Re: built 4r70w ppl come in [Re: aerocvpi96]
CameronVic Offline
Coolest guy on CVN
Poobah

Registered: 03/25/09
Posts: 5201
Loc: In the beams!
I still think something else must be wrong. Like a tolerance somwhere else. I hammered on my 190,000 4R70W from 150,000 - 190,000 and all it had was a JMOD and stall. And the thing never missed a beat the 100,000+ miles I had it.
_________________________
1999 P71, Chevy 5.3, twin GT35s, 4L80e, 3.55s, E85, etc. 9.96 @ 139.

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