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#2915519 - 08/30/15 12:12 PM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: JSO2003P71]
JSO2003P71 Offline
Climber

Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 772
Loc: Florida
The battery I have in the car now I think is a ever start. I bought it from the junk yard because it had a december of 2013 (12/13) sticker on it. It was just a little over a year old when I got it and only lasted another 6 months. I will check tomorrow on a motorcraft battery. I have a old optima red top in my 1976 camaro that has to be at least 5 or 6 years old. I have had it in the camaro for 4 years and it was used when I got it from a friend of mine. The camaro is usually trapped in the back yard by cars that I am working on and will go a month sometimes without being started. Even after sitting all that time it always cranks right up. I wish optimas were still the batteries they once were and I would get another one of them.
_________________________
2003 cvpi,2008 cvpi,1994 honda accord,1976 camaro,1988 c1500,2001 honda accord,1999 honda accord,1994 suzuki rf900r,2012 Dodge charger,2001 mustang gt,2010 impala,2013 impala,2013 Taurus

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#2915532 - 08/30/15 02:09 PM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: JSO2003P71]
joeP Offline
Rookie

Registered: 08/10/15
Posts: 51
Loc: Michigan
OK... so here it goes from a guy in the battery biz
the basics:

First and foremost, DO NOT base your opinions on one manufacturer or another on batteries that were made 8+ years ago. Manufacturing process and facilities have changed over the years. Especially with regard to Optima and other (now) johnson control-owned brands.

Also, DO NOT buy used batteries - these are sourced from crashed/junk cars or batteries others have replaced. It might get you to work one day but what about the next? in the long run it's not worth it. Also there's a strong chance they were sitting dead for an extended period of time and recovered via trickle charging.

our vehicles take a group 65 battery (don't use a group 58, they don't last as long and it's not much cheaper) - the factory battery is 650 Cold Cranking amps. With this size from most major manufacturers you should get 4-5 years. You can put in an 850cca or 875cca battery but it doesn't necessarily buy you anything extra except a longer warranty (could be worth it) and a little higher reserve capacity. You MAY be able to get another year or two out of it as long as it's not over-discharged at any point or consistently run down (alternator going out or leaving keys in the ignition - i've done both)
there are three major manufacturers serving the US - most likely your battery is made by 1 of them. there's Johnson Controls, East Penn, and exide. There's also a couple of one-off manufacturers who make 'value' lines of batteries - one being Superlex out of kentucky.

Johnson controls owns and builds most of the lines of batteries you see - advance auto, autozone's duralast line, costco, interstate, diehard (varies regionally), mopar, motorcraft, acdelco). Now just because they make the most batteries, that doesn't mean they are the best batteries (they're just the most profitable to sell). Also, FWIW, johnson controls has steadily moved most all of it's battery operations to mexico

Exide is another big player in the market, they manufacture south of the border as well. Also, they've been in financial trouble a few times recently. Their batteries are... just ok - not terrible, but overall not great in terms of longevity and construction.

now my personal favorite is East Penn Manufacturing - you will find these batteries wearing many different labels, but the nice thing about east penn is that they don't build to spec for customers like JC does - walmart gets a cheaper battery, interstate gets what they want, etc. They make one battery of a particular spec and you're welcome to put your label on it or sell it under their home line "Deka". The other nice thing about east penn batteries (in this size) is that they they are completely sealed and have a flat top that vents any gases to the sides - this translates to no corroded terminals like standard top-vented batteries. You can find these batteries at Meijer in the midwest, Battery Giant under their own label, BatteriesPlus or Sams Club under the Duracell label, Napa auto (varies regionally), Oreilly auto, and a number of other smaller battery shops and retailers. Their defect rate is about as low as you can get - less than 1 out of 1000. In the past 2 years I have replaced one battery under warranty (I get more than that back, but they're mostly just dead and need to be charged but test out fine or they're destroyed due to neglect/user error)

NOW - As far as finding a decent battery as cheap as possible, I'd start with costco - should be around $90-$95. Meijer and Sams Club are pretty much tied in my area @ about $105 for an 875CCA ( I sell the same battery for $124.99 and that's still a decent price) and about $95 on the 650cca.
IF you just happen to have a manufacturer's outlet store nearby (or an interstate battery store - not a dealer, an actual interstate store) you can check around for "seconds" or "reconditioned" batteries. These are batteries that have sat on store shelves for 6-12 months and have been returned for fresh stock. There is absolutely nothing wrong with these batteries most of the time and they come with substantial savings.

What you don't want to do is put in the absolute cheapest no-name "value" brand battery - these are made with the cheapest materiels possible and their lifespan is unpredictable. The only exception to that is autozone's value line. In some areas (sadly it varies by region) they use east penn's batteries - Some of their value line batteries actually cost (the store) more than than their duralast gold counterparts (a lot of the cost is to pay for the "warranty")

Lastly, no matter what battery you buy - look at the date codes! most manufacturers use a letter-number system. A12 or A2 = Jan 2012, B13 or B3 = Feb 2013, etc, skipping over the letter I.


Edited by joeP (08/30/15 04:47 PM)

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#2915551 - 08/30/15 04:53 PM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: JSO2003P71]
joeP Offline
Rookie

Registered: 08/10/15
Posts: 51
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By JSO2003P71
I wish optimas were still the batteries they once were and I would get another one of them.


Get a Deka Intimidator AGM (can pick up from sams club under the duracell label). Is it of the same quality of diehard platinum/odyssey? No - but it's just as good as optima used to be for less money.

sams club AGM - $164.52 in my area
not bad considering a diehard P2 goes for $225.

Also, FYI lead sulphate is the byproduct of discharging a lead-acid battery. Desulphate is a fancy term for charging and not much more. When a charger has a 'desulphate' mode, it's doing one of two differrent things - trickle charging the battery, sometimes with pulses of energy to keep the battery fully charged, or putting the charger into a pseudo-manual charge mode to recover over-discharged batteries that won't immediately take a charge. If a battery is older than 5 years old, don't waste your time - you can't put lead back onto the plates that has shed off or reverse corrosion.


Edited by joeP (08/30/15 05:06 PM)

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#2915555 - 08/30/15 05:14 PM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: joeP]
SocalSam Offline
banned
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4686
Loc: SFV, Calif.
Originally Posted By joeP
OK... so here it goes from a guy in the battery biz
the basics:

First and foremost, DO NOT base your opinions on one manufacturer or another on batteries that were made 8+ years ago. Manufacturing process and facilities have changed over the years. Especially with regard to Optima and other (now) johnson control-owned brands.

Also, DO NOT buy used batteries - these are sourced from crashed/junk cars or batteries others have replaced. It might get you to work one day but what about the next? in the long run it's not worth it. Also there's a strong chance they were sitting dead for an extended period of time and recovered via trickle charging.

our vehicles take a group 65 battery (don't use a group 58, they don't last as long and it's not much cheaper) - the factory battery is 650 Cold Cranking amps. With this size from most major manufacturers you should get 4-5 years. You can put in an 850cca or 875cca battery but it doesn't necessarily buy you anything extra except a longer warranty (could be worth it) and a little higher reserve capacity. You MAY be able to get another year or two out of it as long as it's not over-discharged at any point or consistently run down (alternator going out or leaving keys in the ignition - i've done both)
there are three major manufacturers serving the US - most likely your battery is made by 1 of them. there's Johnson Controls, East Penn, and exide. There's also a couple of one-off manufacturers who make 'value' lines of batteries - one being Superlex out of kentucky.

Johnson controls owns and builds most of the lines of batteries you see - advance auto, autozone's duralast line, costco, interstate, diehard (varies regionally), mopar, motorcraft, acdelco). Now just because they make the most batteries, that doesn't mean they are the best batteries (they're just the most profitable to sell). Also, FWIW, johnson controls has steadily moved most all of it's battery operations to mexico

Exide is another big player in the market, they manufacture south of the border as well. Also, they've been in financial trouble a few times recently. Their batteries are... just ok - not terrible, but overall not great in terms of longevity and construction.

now my personal favorite is East Penn Manufacturing - you will find these batteries wearing many different labels, but the nice thing about east penn is that they don't build to spec for customers like JC does - walmart gets a cheaper battery, interstate gets what they want, etc. They make one battery of a particular spec and you're welcome to put your label on it or sell it under their home line "Deka". The other nice thing about east penn batteries (in this size) is that they they are completely sealed and have a flat top that vents any gases to the sides - this translates to no corroded terminals like standard top-vented batteries. You can find these batteries at Meijer in the midwest, Battery Giant under their own label, BatteriesPlus or Sams Club under the Duracell label, Napa auto (varies regionally), Oreilly auto, and a number of other smaller battery shops and retailers. Their defect rate is about as low as you can get - less than 1 out of 1000. In the past 2 years I have replaced one battery under warranty (I get more than that back, but they're mostly just dead and need to be charged but test out fine or they're destroyed due to neglect/user error)

NOW - As far as finding a decent battery as cheap as possible, I'd start with costco - should be around $90-$95. Meijer and Sams Club are pretty much tied in my area @ about $105 for an 875CCA ( I sell the same battery for $124.99 and that's still a decent price) and about $95 on the 650cca.
IF you just happen to have a manufacturer's outlet store nearby (or an interstate battery store - not a dealer, an actual interstate store) you can check around for "seconds" or "reconditioned" batteries. These are batteries that have sat on store shelves for 6-12 months and have been returned for fresh stock. There is absolutely nothing wrong with these batteries most of the time and they come with substantial savings.

What you don't want to do is put in the absolute cheapest no-name "value" brand battery - these are made with the cheapest materiels possible and their lifespan is unpredictable. The only exception to that is autozone's value line. In some areas (sadly it varies by region) they use east penn's batteries - Some of their value line batteries actually cost (the store) more than than their duralast gold counterparts (a lot of the cost is to pay for the "warranty")

Lastly, no matter what battery you buy - look at the date codes! most manufacturers use a letter-number system. A12 or A2 = Jan 2012, B13 or B3 = Feb 2013, etc, skipping over the letter I.


I was talking battery brands with a fleet maintenance tech and he said that some batteries can tolerate multiple re-charges better than others. From experience, he said that Costco nee Johnston can be re-charged from dead multiple times without damage and that others can only be done a few times before frying. I'm sold on Costco.
_________________________
2004 CV LX Sport #2
2008 CVPI Arizona Beige, POTM 6/22

Option Adds: Message Center Instrument Cluster , Re-Key Locks , Passenger Door Lock , Autolamps , Ballistic Panels ,
Door Keypad , Passenger Seat Power


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#2915572 - 08/30/15 07:08 PM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: SocalSam]
PHoganDive Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 06/11/11
Posts: 3078
Loc: Mass, USA
Originally Posted By SocalSam
I was talking battery brands with a fleet maintenance tech and he said that some batteries can tolerate multiple re-charges better than others. From experience, he said that Costco nee Johnston can be re-charged from dead multiple times without damage and that others can only be done a few times before frying. I'm sold on Costco.


Cars use 'starting' batteries that are designed for brief, high current use (for cranking the car over to start it)...the brief surge doesn't discharge them much (shallow discharge), then the alternator recharges them once the motor starts. They are built with lots of thin plates to maximize surface area, this gives the most chemically active surface area for high current capability.
The second type of battery is a deep cycle/discharge type battery. They are designed to put out lower currents, but for much longer time (a trolling motor for a fishing boat would be an example where you'd use one). They are made with fewer, but thicker plates. They have less surface area, so they can't put out the hundreds of cranking amps as well, but the thicker plates hold up to deep discharging much better than the thin plates in starting batteries.
_________________________

2006 CVPI w/120K, J-Mod, MSD COPs, BOC Tune, American Muscle Wheels, Magnaflow Stainless Catback Duals, 35% tint, UltraGuage, headlight relay harness installed w/ 80/100 watt bulbs.

1996 GMQ 116K miles, Bilstein shocks, otherwise stock (Retired 7/2011)

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#2915603 - 08/30/15 11:40 PM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: SocalSam]
joeP Offline
Rookie

Registered: 08/10/15
Posts: 51
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By SocalSam

I was talking battery brands with a fleet maintenance tech and he said that some batteries can tolerate multiple re-charges better than others. From experience, he said that Costco nee Johnston can be re-charged from dead multiple times without damage and that others can only be done a few times before frying. I'm sold on Costco.


They're good batteries and quite frankly, you can do just about whatever you want to them and just take them back for an exchange. The service guy at my local store actually
told me "we usually don't even check them."

unfortunately it looks like they're going away (just found this out). they're already gone, at least in some markets and have been replaced with interstate batteries. I'm curious what their prices are like on those.

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#2915854 - 09/02/15 01:35 AM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: JSO2003P71]
Donald Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/11
Posts: 241
Loc: Oxford, Ohio
Add my vote for the Motorcraft batteries. While I used to be a fan of the Duralast Gold units, I eventually had 3 that croaked (thankfully under warranty).
The price of them as with all batteries has jumped quite a bit.

When I brought my 04 Sport home from it's previous owner in August of 2013, it appeared to have the original Motorcraft unit.

My local dealer had a sale, and beat what AZ wanted for the Duralast Gold equivalent by $15, and five years of warranty.
I got the BXT-65-750 for $110 + tax which is 100 amps bigger than the oem 650 if I recall correctly.

Don
_________________________
2004 Crown Vic LX Sport Plus in Midnight Grey Metallic with Light Flint Gray leather interior. Exterior paint code "TV." Built Feb. 16, 2004.
3.27 Traction-Lok rear axle from a 2010 CVPI w 46K.
Aluminum PI driveshaft with Fabtech spacer.
CVPI exhaust sans resonators.
KYB Police spec rear shocks.

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#2915875 - 09/02/15 07:21 AM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: Donald]
Former85Owner Offline
Climber

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 521
Loc: Albany, NY
Motorcraft. I had MC batteries last NINE years. The dealer wasn't too surprised either.

I was told this:

Yes JC makes them but Ford specifies higher quality control than say WalMart. I also heard that Ford has intellectual property that is incorporated into their battery exclusively. A battery that don't live up to Ford Standards(but still be perfectly fine) may become a Walmart battery. A Motorcraft battery fails and they have a big warranty bill, a Walmart battery fails and it cost them nothing (the associates are far from techs).

They don't cost more than Walmart either. If you can find a motorcraft distributor (United Auto Supply, for example) you can probably get them a few bucks less. All Motorcraft parts may be less too, but YMMV. These places actually sell to the dealerships, but many will have a counter.

Just search here, many dealers come up but if there is a distributor it will show too.

http://www.motorcraft.com/our-brands/wheretobuy

Finally, a good alternator, clean connections, and no drains are your best insurance against battery failure. Always do a voltage drop test against ground and 12V once a year, especially if you live in a corrosion area.

Simply take a cheap meter and measure voltage from:
The + battery terminal to the alternator stud
The - post to a ground point on the vehicle.

Be sure to measure from the center of the battery post so the round terminal contact surface is measured as well.

Both should read very close to zero. If there is any corrosion, resistance, whatever, this will create a voltage drop that you can measure.


Edited by Former85Owner (09/02/15 07:22 AM)
_________________________
98 MGM LS, Tan, Fully loaded but Non HPP (Original Owner didn't like the ride frown ). 177K miles. Dorman Intake, KYB Gas Adjust. Added: Heated Seats, Heated Mirrors, voice visor Homelink, 02B02 fuel tank shield

Former: 85 White Box, 205K miles, Jumped time. RIP 8/8/2000.

Allergic to Car Payments

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#2915876 - 09/02/15 07:38 AM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: JSO2003P71]
RF_Overlord Offline

Poobah

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 8853
Loc: MA
Another vote for Motorcraft...as with Donald^ my local dealer was actually cheaper than VatoZone and Advance, and not by pennies, either.
_________________________
'03 Mercury Marauder (The Blackbird)
Trilogy Motorsports supercharged #61
Too many mods to list / Driveway Queen

'11 Grand Marquis LS Ultimate Edition (Black)

'00 Grand Marquis GS (Silver)
Rotted frame and broken transmission crossmember
Being resurrected...slowly.

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#2916374 - 09/05/15 08:17 PM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: JSO2003P71]
CrystalPistol Offline
Banned
Over the Hill

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 3474
Loc: Shenandoah Valley
The OEM Motorcraft group 65 battery out of our 2001 Mercury GM is still my back up battery. It was in the car up until summer 2006 when we took that Rt 66 tour and all ..... 3 weeks .... and I just wanted a new battery. Since then I've replaced that replacement again last year (2014) ..... but that 2001 MC has been used a couple times in police cars when their's went bad and it has been used temp in a '95 T-Bird and my '07 FX4 until I got new ones for them. I charge it with a maintainer occasionally and it sits in a wooden & wheeled battery cart I made for it.

In late Summer 2002 my '77 F150 battery went bad, I bought a new NAPA Legend 75 Group 24 battery for it. In May 2003 that "Legend" went belly up and so I went back to NAPA and they replaced it free with another. That second battery has a date code of March 2003 on it. This is 2015 and that second Legend 75 has never been jumped, has set in that truck unused sometimes a month or more, spent every winter since in that truck, then sometimes get's used several days in a row. I have never had a moments problem with it, it has always sparked the OEM 1977 Ford Starter through the OEM 1977 Ford solenoid and spun that 351M with "low comp" option over like new and to life. It gets it's charge from a genuine 60 amp 1977 Ford alternator with the aid of a mid 1980's electronic voltage regulator. Had it out today hauling trash and pulling a stump.

But .... like it's predecessor, I've had some crap out early .... but generally I get 5-7 years.



Edited by CrystalPistol (09/05/15 08:18 PM)
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________________________________________ ____________________
Problems huh? Then Read THE Book. Signed: Natural Borne Neanderthal .







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#2916581 - 09/07/15 11:21 AM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: JSO2003P71]
PB92 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 2155
Loc: Communist CT
Everybody gave great advice. But if you want to end your battery/power concerns once and for all, then get this.....

http://www.diehard.com/products/automotive

I'm a bit of a power junkie with my car, but no worries about out gassing with a lead/acid battery (which is how and why your terminals corrode, battery tray corrodes, and everything else battery acid touches corrodes).

This battery is a beast, and its manufactured by the same people who make the Odyssey PC1750 battery. Actually, the Diehard group 65 is the same battery as the PC1750, but cheaper and has Diehard labeling.
_________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world, MARINES don't have that problem" President Ronald Reagan

99 P71 Ex-Greenwich CT Det. car. New Ford crate engine. Deep Wedgewood Blue. Big 4 upgrade, 370amp alt w/overdrive pulley. ARA3 PCM. High power CB'er for 35 years. GMRS Operator Midland MXT400

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#2916796 - 09/08/15 03:46 PM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: JSO2003P71]
Billyd Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 100
Loc: Culver City
Ive had pretty good luck with PepBoys for Bosch batteries. I only use PepBoys for flat repair(free) and batteries if my mechanic is closed. They give you free installation on the battery and our Bosch one had a great warranty. Even when we were in the prorated warranty stage, when our battery was dying the PepBoys manager recognized us and gave us a brand new Bosch for free, even though it should have cost us around 25%. Our Ford Dealer offers the standard Motocraft battery starting at $99 and the MAX for $119

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#2917195 - 09/11/15 10:29 AM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: JSO2003P71]
punkdude908 Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/08/12
Posts: 16
Loc: Long Island, NY
I have a Duralast Platinum (65-AGM) battery. No issues. I always go with AGM batteries...I find they last longer and are more reliable. Plus, no corrosion which is nice.

http://www.autozone.com/1/products/130396-battery-duralast-platinum-65-agm.html
_________________________
2000 Crown Vic Police Interceptor
---------------------------------------------
Mostly stock- 160,000 mi- K&N FIPK, Accel SuperCoils, ARA3 ECU, Duralast Platinum 65-AGM battery, Kelly Explorer Plus 225/60R16 tires, Siverstar Ultra 9007 bulbs w/ CE Auto Electric Supply HRK4 headlight harness

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#2917227 - 09/11/15 02:44 PM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: punkdude908]
joeP Offline
Rookie

Registered: 08/10/15
Posts: 51
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By punkdude908
I have a Duralast Platinum (65-AGM) battery. No issues. I always go with AGM batteries...I find they last longer and are more reliable. Plus, no corrosion which is nice.

http://www.autozone.com/1/products/130396-battery-duralast-platinum-65-agm.html


That's a Deka Intimidator w/ duralast's label. It's made by east penn manufacturing and is one of the best batteries you can buy. Arguably, the only better battery is the previously mentioned Odyssey or Diehard Platinum AGM (both the same battery, diehard is just cheaper). You can usually find the deka for about $160-$180 if you look around ($165 at sams club). The Intimidator line is popular with municipalities and police/fire depts in my area. AGM batteries can charge faster, have better tolerance for deep discharge, and resist acid stratification - all of which make them perfect candidates for vehicles that sit for long periods of time (specialized vehicles in storage, bait cars for auto theft squad, etc.) Being leak-proof they're also a great choice for a trunk mount battery.

FWIW, all of east penn's group 65 batteries have flush, nonremovable tops that resist corrosion build up. They have side vents that can be attached to a hose for venting outgas to wherever you want.

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#2917237 - 09/11/15 04:28 PM Re: best price on cvpi battery [Re: JSO2003P71]
BigMerc96 Offline

I know nothing
Posting Addict

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 19872
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
I always try and sell customers on the Platinums for trunk mount applications. Unfortunately they never seem to go for it around here. "I gots a 2013 Charger on 28z, gimme the cheapest battery you got. What! its more than $20! You crazy!".
_________________________
-Steve

2006 Audi A6 ~132k miles, stock.
1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~100k miles, slowly acquiring modifications.
1997 Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, cats deleted, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Projector retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit, holistic weight reduction as the parts fall off..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown

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