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#651214 - 02/22/05 07:53 PM Crank, no start - Crankshaft Position Sensor?
CVTom Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 136
Loc: Sauk City, WI
Yesterday morning I had a bad surprise - I couldn't start my CV . Previous evening I started it with no problems when I had to move it to plow parking lot.

1. Engine cranks, seems to be close to start but it doesn't.
2. Fuel pump is working ok.
3. I think there is adequate pressure at fuel rail (gas shoots strong from shraeder valve when pressed)

I did a pretty deep search on various forums and made a list of possible causes of "crank no start" situation

1. Bad or dirty crankshaft position sensor
- seems to be the best explanation so far

2. Clogged fuel filter
- not here? gas goes strong to fuel rail
- last change was 35K miles ago so I will do it tommorrow anyways

3. Bad alternator
- no idea
- related? - I had headlights and interior lights (probably all lights) flickering for last 2 weeks, sometimes shutting off - switch seems to be dying, goes in and back very hard and only auto lights seem to work ok.

4. Clogged fuel injectors
- no idea

5. Bad fuel pump
- not here? I can hear it priming plus there is pressure at fuel rail

6. Drained battery
- all lights work ok, I gave it a jump but it didn't change anything

7. Clogged fuel rail
- not here? - pressing shraeder valve makes a nice shoot

8. Dirty IAC valve
- had it cleaned some 30K miles ago
- I will have it cleaned again tomorrow

9. Starter solenoid or starter/wire
- this case would be "no start no crank", right?

10. Damaged wire located over transmission filter
- I have read it somewhere, no idea what it is?

11. Gunked battery terminals or broken battery wiring
- not here? all lights work good, engine cranks strong

Right now I am working om Crankshaft Position Sensor. I am pretty sure I found it right

I took the flywheel out to access it easier. I managed to break that small bolt that holds it (8 or 9mm) CPS only goes out so far and then there is AC compressor that as I understand, has to be taken out

1. How do I do it not to release any freon?
2. What other maintenance can I do having fan out (belt, tensioner?)
3. What should I do when it won't start with new CPS?






I appreciate all advice and help!

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#651215 - 02/23/05 12:25 AM Re: Crank, no start - Crankshaft Position Sensor?
johnnyiroc Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 4064
Loc: In a heavily armed house in Il...
camshaft sensor, is in the front timing-engine cover on the dr side, will cause no start-spark condition.
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#651216 - 02/23/05 12:32 AM Re: Crank, no start - Crankshaft Position Sensor?
Dextrovic Offline
Poobah

Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 7848
Loc:  
Does the engine start in less than 8 consecutive turns of the ignition switch?

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#651217 - 02/23/05 10:46 AM Re: Crank, no start - Crankshaft Position Sensor?
CVTom Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 136
Loc: Sauk City, WI
Nope, engine does not start at all. Maybe once in 10 cranks it seems like it will start but it does not

I understand that Camshaft Sensor should be my next pick if new Crankshaft Position Sensor doesn't fix it.

Should I change the belt while I have the fan out? I own it since it was 151K (186K now) and I had never changed it. Is tensioner pulley worth changing (looks good)?

Thanks for help!

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#651218 - 02/23/05 11:07 AM Re: Crank, no start - Crankshaft Position Sensor?
tutuluke Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 157
Loc: Sugar Land, Tx, 77498
Could be your ignition control module!

Did you check if you are getting spark in boots?

If yes, then looks like a sensor related issue.

My 92 had the same problem but I was getting no spark in boots - turned out to be the ignition control module (located on inside of driver side fender just infront of the brake booster / fuse box)


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#651219 - 02/23/05 12:20 PM Re: Crank, no start - Crankshaft Position Sensor?
Kinger87 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 7611
Loc: Gladstone MI
well if you need any ignition parts from a 92 motor, let me know, I have a complete 92 engine/trans combo in my grandfathers barn. The tranny is reserved for my 68 mustang tho.
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#651220 - 02/23/05 12:36 PM Re: Crank, no start - Crankshaft Position Sensor?
JohnG Offline
Tech Admin
Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 13025
Loc: Socialist state of MN
Ok, let's start over shall we. lots of bad guesing going on here.

1) It is NOT the starter, or ignition switch.
2) It is NOT the cam sensor, this WILL NOT cause a "no start" condition.
3) If it is the crank sensor, you will get no spark.
4) If it is the EDIS system, you may or may not get a spark.
5) You say you "cleaned" the IAC, why? They are not serviceable, if they are bad, you MUST replace it.
6) Try starting with your foot GENTLY pressing on the accelerator, about 5%-10% throttle.
7) A dirty MAF will not cause a no start, but it may contribute to it.
8) You have fuel pressure, the question isw how much. Given that it started fine yesterday, and it ran fine before that, the filter and regulator are not suspect. You can actually hear the pump, so that is at least OK.
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#651221 - 02/23/05 05:01 PM Post deleted by JohnG
Code636 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 134
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#651222 - 02/23/05 08:10 PM Re: Crank, no start - Crankshaft Position Sensor?
CVTom Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 136
Loc: Sauk City, WI
Great eyes, pal!

I knew I broke that small bolt but I didn't look close enough to understand how bad it is . I even picked up replacement screw together with CPS from stealership, talking to salesguy that it will be easy to sort of "push through" or something .

Well... it's bad. It broke off right at the mounting surface. It points out from the other side and I tried to grab it with variety of pliers, locking pliers, ect. Small locking pliers kinda get it but not strong enough to make a turn. It would be easier at right angle if I took the crankshaft wheel off but as far as I know, I need some kind of puller to do so.

I decided to use AC compressor side to get it. I went to few hardware stores and the best option was a $160 Milwaukee 3/8" Close Quarter Drill. Nice thing, 0-1300 RPM, reversing 55' angled chuck, high impact housing, ball and roller bearings. I think I won't return it after all



The problem is that even with it's width, it's not possible to drill the bolt at right angle. I guess I would have to pull the compressor out to do it and then I would still have little visibility. So far I made just small hole, pretty centered.

I can also try on the crankshaft side but I am afraid that after getting the pulley out, I won't have enough working space plus I don't know if the bolt would come out from that side

Some pics of current situation (bad quality, it was dark already):




I have 3 12 hour shifts to work now so I will be back to it on Sunday. I hope I will know how to do it

I am open to all advice!

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#651223 - 02/24/05 12:07 AM Re: Crank, no start - Crankshaft Position Sensor?
Steve83 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7445
Loc: Memphis, TN 38002, USA, Earth,...
Do you know anyone that can TIG weld??? Attaching a chunk of steel to the bolt will give you something to turn it by, and the heat from welding might help break it free. In the meantime, I'd put a drip pan under it & soak it every few hours with penetrating oil (I prefer Gunk Liquid Wrench).

You DO need a puller to get the harmonic balancer off, but you can get a cheapo from any parts store for a few bucks. I didn't have one, and I used 2 prybars, but I didn't have to worry about cracking the cover since the engine was toast anyway.
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#651224 - 02/24/05 12:11 AM Re: Crank, no start - Crankshaft Position Sensor?
johnnyiroc Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 4064
Loc: In a heavily armed house in Il...
yeah the front covers are easy to break using anything against them.
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Signature removed. See rules.

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#651225 - 02/24/05 11:29 PM Re: Crank, no start - Crankshaft Position Sensor?
CVTom Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 136
Loc: Sauk City, WI
I will not use a prybar then. I really don't want to crack the cover.

1. I will try to loan a puller from Autozone on Sunday or Monday. Without that pulley down there, I might have a good grip with small locking pliers from the right side.

2. If that fails I am down to taking the AC compessor out to gain some working space for right angle drill and easy out from left side.

3. I don't know a good welder. Would it be safe to use regular small propane torch to heat up the bastard?

Thanks for help guys!

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