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#659379 - 03/08/05 07:44 AM Re: Iridium plug install
metroplex Offline
Metroplectic

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 49827
Loc: Motor City, USA
I also use a lot of dielectric silicone grease in the coil boots along with some silicone spray. This helps prevent the boot from sticking to the spark plug, and prevents moisture from seeping in and causing arcing.
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#659380 - 03/08/05 08:23 PM Re: Iridium plug install
Johnny-Langton Offline
Member

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 116
Quote:

https://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB23&Number=736024&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

anti-seize has been discussed here numerous times. don't use it.

if you do not trust our site, do a search on the net. 4.6/5.4l pjug blow out is quite common. the 3 reasons it happens i posted above.

sorry if my post seems crude, but i had a plug blow out(it sux!)... no fault of mine though. it was an error by the previous owner of my car.



3 different modular powered vehicles at my home.
One is at 250K miles with regular sparkplug changes(15-20K miles max),one is at 161K miles(have had 4 sparkplug changes),and the other is at 90K miles(2 sparkplug changes),and I always use a bit of QUALITY antisieze.
Not a blob,just a sufficient amount to do the job.
Never have had a problem with plugs loosening,or with a spark plug blowing out of it's place.
Also,why would somebody want to install a sparkplug that has a higher electrical resistance than Copper in their car?
Makes no logical sense to me..
JL
_________________________
'97 Tbird LX 4.6L/4R70W-N/A
12.28 at 109.57
Ported Non-PI's
Comp Cams

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#659381 - 03/08/05 08:38 PM Re: Iridium plug install
metroplex Offline
Metroplectic

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 49827
Loc: Motor City, USA
Quote:

Also,why would somebody want to install a sparkplug that has a higher electrical resistance than Copper in their car?




My copper AWSFA-12C plugs were wearing out at only 12k miles. The side of the electrode was wearing out where the spark was jumping to the ground electrode. That effectively increases the gap, as that is the distance the spark is jumping. I estimate that in a total of 20k miles, I'd have to regap or replace those plugs. It wasn't wearing down on the flat top but rather on the side.

Platinum was used to prolong the lifespan of the plug, as it is a more durable material than copper (supposedly). However if you look at the AWSF-32P plug, there's a "slug" of Pt on the top of a copper electrode. The current is going to flow wherever there is lower resistance. If the Pt slug builds up too much resistance it is going to find its way to the copper electrode and start wearing it out.

Iridium, from what I've read, is a much more durable material than Pt. In fact, I don't even think Ir plugs are made the same way. The electrode is needle thin and yet, Ford uses it in their production supercharged vehicles. Something must be good about them.

I am now using AGSF-12FM1 plugs that appear to be the same construction as Denso Iridium plugs.
The difference in electrical resistance between the copper, platinum coated, and iridium electrodes is going to be insignificant in this application. That extra "spark" you may get from using a copper (heck, why not use silver - oh wait, it's not going to last as long nor is it cheap) isn't going to yield a noticeable difference in horsepower/torque on the dyno unless you're running a serious application.

The only anti-sieze I use is the Permatex stuff that smells like propane.

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#659382 - 03/08/05 10:33 PM Re: Iridium plug install
Johnny-Langton Offline
Member

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 116
If you're driving your car in a performance manner,then you need to change the plugs at 10-15K miles anyway.
I had a set of those AGSF12-FM1's that you're raving about.
I installed them in my wife's '98 F150.
After 22K miles...they were trash.Only reason I installed them was for the "longer life" because plug changes on the truck are more difficult than on the car.
I'll never use that crap again.I installed copper AGSF12C plugs,and haven't looked back.
I use the same plug in both vehicles now,and even if I change them out every 10K miles-I'm still money ahead compared to installing a set of (insert bling word here)ium spark plugs.
JL

_________________________
'97 Tbird LX 4.6L/4R70W-N/A
12.28 at 109.57
Ported Non-PI's
Comp Cams

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#659383 - 03/09/05 12:32 AM Re: Iridium plug install
V8 Whale Offline
Climber

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 850
Loc: Aztec, New Mexico
The plugs went in today. I only screwed up 1 plug boot getting it out. I got a ride to the local Ford dealer and they dinged me $27.00 for a new one!
Instead of blowing out the wells, I took Tony_the_Brit's tip in another direction and taped a hose into my vaccuum hose and sucked the garbage out.
Everything went well short of the 1 problem boot. I dry torqued the plugs to 14ft. lbs. and none of them came flying through my hood, so I would call that success.
I have always been told not to use anti-sieze on aluminum heads because it reduces friction and makes it easier to over-torque the plugs without realizing.
In response to Johnny-Langton's concerns... I installed the Iridiums as the electrical resistance is almost identical to copper, they are even harder than double platinums so they will last longer, and I really didn't feel like having to do this again any time soon.

I also installed a 180 T-stat and removed the air silencer while I was in there. I drove it this evening and the old SOTP meter was ticking like a geiger counter.
Overall it ran smooth as silk, and the throttle response was crisp. In retrospect I am glad I did the wrenching as all my plugs came out coated in white ash with the center electrodes starting to erode.



Sorry about the photo quality, I am still getting used to this digital camera.
_________________________
"So maybe I'm NOT smarter than a fifth grader, but I can buy beer."
2000 Crown Victoria HPP - Mostly Stock



V8 Whale? Where you been boy?

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#659384 - 03/09/05 07:46 AM Re: Iridium plug install
metroplex Offline
Metroplectic

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 49827
Loc: Motor City, USA
Quote:

If you're driving your car in a performance manner,then you need to change the plugs at 10-15K miles anyway.
I had a set of those AGSF12-FM1's that you're raving about.
I installed them in my wife's '98 F150.
After 22K miles...they were trash.Only reason I installed them was for the "longer life" because plug changes on the truck are more difficult than on the car.
I'll never use that crap again.I installed copper AGSF12C plugs,and haven't looked back.
I use the same plug in both vehicles now,and even if I change them out every 10K miles-I'm still money ahead compared to installing a set of (insert bling word here)ium spark plugs.
JL






The AGSF-12FM1s were OEM for 03-04 Lightnings, IIRC.
They were only a few cents more than the AWSFA-12Cs. Those AWSFA-12Cs were pretty "trashed" after 12k miles. I didn't have the precision tools to measure the gap because it was on the side of the main electrode.

To each his own. I don't think the AGSF-12FM1s are "bling bling", they're significantly less expensive than Denso Iridium plugs but based on the same design I suppose. I didn't feel any difference between the AWSFA-12C and AGSF-12FM1 spark plugs. I may give the AGSF-12C plugs, that you're raving about, a try in the future. I have a '03 5.4L dual cam V8 that has about 20k miles. I should pull those plugs and see what's going on.
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#659385 - 03/09/05 08:39 AM Re: Iridium plug install
Johnny-Langton Offline
Member

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 116
Quote:

In response to Johnny-Langton's concerns... I installed the Iridiums as the electrical resistance is almost identical to copper, they are even harder than double platinums so they will last longer, and I really didn't feel like having to do this again any time soon.





You'd better do some checking...because you have incorrect information.
Copper has 6x the conductivity of platinum,and it's close to 3x the conductivity of Iridium.
That is a substantial difference,and when you're dealing with a electrical pulse-it makes a difference.
It is harder,and will last longer-but what have you accomplished by spending all of that extra money on them?Nothing.By the time you replace the Iridium plugs,you'll have replaced a few sets of Coppers,and at $1.06 each..I can but ALOT of copper plugs before I reach the cost of that Iriduim crap.
JL
_________________________
'97 Tbird LX 4.6L/4R70W-N/A
12.28 at 109.57
Ported Non-PI's
Comp Cams

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#659386 - 03/09/05 09:26 AM Re: Iridium plug install
Big_Bad_Joe Offline

Poobah

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 8468
Loc: Rochester NY
you can tell them until you are blue in the face jOhnny

they are not listening ...

I run copper also...

the only irdiums I see are in high psi street turbo four cylinders... then they have to boost the iginition to compensate for the spark ...

but you told them right as far as I am concerned...

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Pioneer AVIC X930BT Nav system, JL xD400/4amp, JL Speakers, Audiovox backup camera
Given to DG in Ohio

2013 Ford Expedition Limited EL, Pearl White

2000 HPP RESURECTION RIP 8/17/2012 died in Dayton OH

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#659387 - 03/09/05 09:42 AM Re: Iridium plug install
metroplex Offline
Metroplectic

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 49827
Loc: Motor City, USA
Iridium was originally intended to be a compromise between copper and platinum.

JL is right about the conductivity. Assuming the same cross sectional area and length, Cu is 3x more conductive than Ir and 6x more conductive than Pt.

Iridium isn't as conductive as copper, but it's supposed to be a much harder material than copper, while not as resistive as platinum.

I've seen how copper plugs can wear out on our high voltage ignitions (Visteon Specs for our COP coils are 25kV-35kV,). I'm going to see how well the AGSF-12FM1 plugs fare first hand. I pulled them with about 6k miles and didn't see anything abnormal. The ceramic insulator was still white, the ground electrode was slightly gray, and the tiny electrode looked fine.

In a vehicle that's easy to work on, i.e. the Crown Vic, I wouldn't mind swapping plugs every 20k miles, but on a E-series van, you have to pull the doghouse and work from the inside which can be a PITA. Your wife's F-150 has nothing on the E-series vans... the dash is practically right over the engine.

The platinum plugs have to last twice as long as the coppers to make up for the cost difference. 20k vs 40k miles.
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#659388 - 03/09/05 10:07 AM Re: Iridium plug install
1BADMERC Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3645
Quote:

Instead of blowing out the wells, I took Tony_the_Brit's tip in another direction and taped a hose into my vaccuum hose and sucked the garbage out.






I hope you mean your vacuum CLEANER, and not a vacuum hose from the motor...
_________________________
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243k miles
29.5mm PI front bar(ENS greaseable poly bushings),21mm HPP rear bar(ENS poly bushings/endlinks),Mechanical Stewart-Warner oil pressure gauge. Black steelies/center caps...K&N filter

1994 Lincoln Mark VIII
144k miles
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#659389 - 03/10/05 09:09 AM Re: Iridium plug install
metroplex Offline
Metroplectic

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 49827
Loc: Motor City, USA
I don't know how much of it is marketing, but:

http://www.autolite.com/tech/AutoliteDoublePlatinum.pdf

It appears the "Platinum" bling bling plugs use a copper core just like the copper plugs. The biggest difference is the obvious use of platinum at the side and ground electrodes to prevent gap erosion.
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#659390 - 03/11/05 12:54 AM Re: Iridium plug install
V8 Whale Offline
Climber

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 850
Loc: Aztec, New Mexico
Quote:

You'd better do some checking...because you have incorrect information.
Copper has 6x the conductivity of platinum,and it's close to 3x the conductivity of Iridium.




Johnny-Langton, you and Metroplex were correct, my information on the electrial resistance was inaccurate.
My appologies for any indigation. However I still feel it was a worthy purchase.
These plugs are a relativly new technology for street engines, and I would like to see for myself if they are going to outlast the platinums.
I can tell you that since I installed them my engine has been running much smoother at all speeds and it feels great.
_________________________
"So maybe I'm NOT smarter than a fifth grader, but I can buy beer."
2000 Crown Victoria HPP - Mostly Stock



V8 Whale? Where you been boy?

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#659391 - 03/11/05 01:06 AM Re: Iridium plug install
p71towny Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 1751
Loc: Ft. Wayne IN
Ive never had problems with anti-seize. I have an old long style plug boot on a rod that I start the plug in with. If it doesnt start to thread in with that I cant force it in cross-threaded.
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1995 Town Car, flowmaster 50's, gutted cats, gutted evap system, cold air tube, MMairbox & 80mm maf, K&N air filter, DR chip, 180 thermostat, 22pp plugs, Steeda underdrive pulleys w/gatorback belt, transgo shift kit, cross-drilled rotors w/performance friction pads, addco swaybars front and rear, poly bushings, edelbrock IAS shocks all around, deleted mechanical fan, Kenwood MP4028 w/kenwood 6x9's and 6x8's and more to come

1982 Crown Vic LTD 2dr No air pump or cats, cragar ss's, dual exhaust, tach, volt, oil, temp gauges.

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#659392 - 03/21/05 12:55 PM Re: Iridium plug install
metroplex Offline
Metroplectic

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 49827
Loc: Motor City, USA
It turns out AGSF-12FM1 plugs are not iridium at all... just regular platinum/nickel finewire center electrodes with nickel shells with a big price tag.

The AGSF-22WM and AGSF-32WM are the Iridium/Platinum motorcraft plugs. According to Motorcraft's catalog, the AGSF-32WM are standard/replacements for the Marauders and 03 Mach 1.

And the "A" in AWSFA-12C does not stand for alternative fuel. It means there's a revised ground wire.
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