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#9615 - 07/29/01 02:25 PM Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
Dondo Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 2477
Loc: Clearwater, Florida
I have a question that no one seems to want to help me with,,,,, thats my reason for writing this in hopes someone maybe will be able to answer it for me....

I have a 1987 Ford Crown Vic,,,,, it has the police package in it,,,, but it has the 160hp,,, ford crown vic,,,, 302 engine.... In the near future I want to replace the engine since I am nearing 140,000 miles,,,,, I wish to exchange it for a rebuilt Ford 5.0 liter,,, 302 HO engine.... I have been told that 302 HO has the 351 firing order,,,, which is different then my 302 in the Crown Vic.... If I could change the engine to the H.O. without having to change computers,,,, or wiring harness's,,,,,, it would be an easier swap..... I have been told it can be done by changing 4 wires on the Crown Vic's computer,,,,, with 4 corresponding wires in the engine compartment.... The problem I have is no one wants to say which 4 wires have to be changed to have it fire in the right order.... My question is would you know which wires need to be switched,,,,, color code or how ever I can tell,,,,,, or would you be willing to tell me where I can find an answer to my question.... Any help,,, or answers you would be willing to give me,,,,, I would greatly appreciate

Thank you in advance.....
Don Ash Jr
Clearwater, Fl

E-mail Don-5853@juno.com

_________________________


1997CV-P71,3:27rear gears,Scanguage,hella 2020 model fog/driving lights, Lincoln Town Car seats front and rear,Crossed drilled and slotted rotors all round.

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#9616 - 07/29/01 03:21 PM Re: Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
AOD Offline

Grand Poobah

Registered: 12/06/00
Posts: 11494
Loc: Asheville, North Carolina
yep...2 guys here have dont that conversion.

the 5.0 non-ho has the 351 firing order...but the HO conversion you just switch the two plugs on your distro cap.

i beleive both of them dyno'ed at 190+ RWHP, (add 20% for crank) with a HO in their vics.

MRLTD just ran a 14.89 this weekend with his

AOD

_________________________

'85 2-Door Crown Victoria - Faster than the Sig Police!
302 HO, -0.022" E7 Heads, Weiand Intake, Edelbrock 1406 Carb, Mechanical Fuel Pump, HEI Distributor, 180* T-stat, Shift Kit, HO Governor, Lokar Cables, B&M Torq Master Converter, FRPP Trans Cooler, Mustang Headers, 2.25" Dual Exhaust, Flowtech H-pipe, Hooker AeroChamber Mufflers, 2.5" Side-Exit Exhaust, Police Shocks, Cut PI Front Springs in the Rear, PI Rear Sway Bar, 17" Sport Wheels, 245/50/Z17 Tires, 4.10 Rear End Gears, Trac Lok Diff
'05 Crown Victoria LX Sport '02 Jeep Liberty '95 Mazda Miata '82 Honda MB5 Motorcycle

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#9617 - 07/29/01 06:24 PM Re: Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
PatsPOS Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/28/01
Posts: 1505
Loc: westcentral PA
A little while ago I made photocopies straight out of the Ford manuals for ECM pinout connections on a '91 Crown Vic and a '88 Mustnag. You'll definitely need the Mustnag computer for the swap, and it looks like more than four wires have to be changed on the plug. I could probably be sweet-talked into making copies for other years (more than likely nothing changed, but knowing Ford like we all do, you can't tell), scanning them, and send 'em out in an e-mail to any interested parties. I'm not sure how far back the manuals go though...'87 or '88 might be my cutoff.

Pat

_________________________
'91 CV P74 (18.09 @ 75 MPH)
'89 F-150 F14 (18.37 @ 73 MPH)
(and a '75 Gran Torino with a 460 (14.03 @ 97 MPH), but we won't go into that)
Congressman Jack Murtha called me a racist and a redneck...jeez, tell me something I DON'T know!


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#9618 - 07/29/01 07:35 PM Re: Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
Anonymous
Unregistered


I never changed any ECM, or harness wires. Just the spark plug wires. The ECM needed is an 86-87 mustang automatic trans. The mustang injectors will also be needed. It's a plug and play deal. A fuel pump upgrade is a good idea too. I can answer any questions (pertaining to the swap), just email me mrltdii@netzero.net

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#9619 - 07/29/01 07:49 PM Re: Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
AOD Offline

Grand Poobah

Registered: 12/06/00
Posts: 11494
Loc: Asheville, North Carolina
the 87-91 Vic motors are identical...so the connections for the ECM should be the same...
_________________________

'85 2-Door Crown Victoria - Faster than the Sig Police!
302 HO, -0.022" E7 Heads, Weiand Intake, Edelbrock 1406 Carb, Mechanical Fuel Pump, HEI Distributor, 180* T-stat, Shift Kit, HO Governor, Lokar Cables, B&M Torq Master Converter, FRPP Trans Cooler, Mustang Headers, 2.25" Dual Exhaust, Flowtech H-pipe, Hooker AeroChamber Mufflers, 2.5" Side-Exit Exhaust, Police Shocks, Cut PI Front Springs in the Rear, PI Rear Sway Bar, 17" Sport Wheels, 245/50/Z17 Tires, 4.10 Rear End Gears, Trac Lok Diff
'05 Crown Victoria LX Sport '02 Jeep Liberty '95 Mazda Miata '82 Honda MB5 Motorcycle

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#9620 - 07/29/01 11:06 PM Re: Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
1987LTDmasta Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 11462
Loc: Chicago, IL.
there IS a way to get around the CPU swap:

the 302 used in the EFI econoline/f-150 (87+) uses the vic firing order (1 5 4 2 6 3 7 8) but has the same cam lift & injectors as the stang. the intakes are WAY different.

heres your option: drop in the HO 5.0, use your current upper intake (to avoid problems with tv, throttle cables & coolant lines) & add a f-150/econoline cam.

i did a complete rebuild back in october.

oh yeah!
the donor engine was from an '88 CV. evereything except for the cam. when i took the block to the machinist, i asked him to order me a new cam with HO lift. i was convinced this whole time that it was gonna be a mustang cam, but just until a couple months ago, i found out that the HO uses the 351 firing order. since i have been running the CV order, it couldnt have been a mustang cam. i investigated with my machinist and it was indeeed a new cam intended for the f-150.

even with the stock heads, fuel-efficent injectors & small TB, i still got maybe 15-20 HP. plus i got the HO timing chain, my lil 302 is a half HO.. all it needs is a beefier TB, & HO/truck heads & its a full-blodded HO

[ July 30, 2001: Message edited by: 1987LTDmasta ]

_________________________
she is for sale.

1987 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX
5.0 liter EFI High Output
Police Package suspension
other custom goodies

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#9621 - 07/30/01 08:02 AM Re: Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
metroplex Offline
Metroplectic

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 49817
Loc: Motor City, USA
The non-HO 5.0 uses the normal 1 5 4 firing order.

BTW

for those 5.0 ppl that talk about low end torque and crap:

MrLTD's motor made:
195.9 rwhp @ 4750 RPM
257.3 rwtq @ 3500 RPM

Look at those RPMs. A stock 98-00 makes 215 hp @ 4500 RPM and 285 lb-ft @ 3000 RPM

You want lots of torque at a higher RPM - you can take advatange of it thru gearing.
If you stick with a garbage truck torque curve (500 lb-ft @ 2000 RPM) you'll get lots of low end but the car won't HAUL at high RPMs.

[ July 30, 2001: Message edited by: MetroVic 2000 ]

_________________________
These aren't the droids you're looking for!

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#9622 - 07/30/01 10:54 AM Re: Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
1987LTDmasta Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 11462
Loc: Chicago, IL.
metro is right on that..
especially when doing circle track runs & higher ratio gears, more higher end torque is the way to go.

lo-end torque is best for street use. my tach doesnt go over 3000RPM on the street. rev limiter is at 4200RPM (never been able to go over that in P/N) and since i got stock 2.73 gears, lo-end torque would benefit me more. i do alot of highway driving and i havent seen the tach go beyond 2000RPM and yet i've taken her well beyond 90. heheheh i mostly drive below 70 but the adrenaline kicks in and i fly..

_________________________
she is for sale.

1987 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX
5.0 liter EFI High Output
Police Package suspension
other custom goodies

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#9623 - 07/30/01 12:24 PM Re: Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
Anonymous
Unregistered


I see were slinging some mud here. I could care less about a 98-00 because I have a 87 and 91. It runs great, that's all that I care about. BTW, 115 is fast enough for me.

to you Metro.

Oops sorry Metro, took a bit to figure out what you were saying.

[ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: MRLTD ]


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#9624 - 07/30/01 02:42 PM Re: Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
1987LTDmasta Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 11462
Loc: Chicago, IL.
MrLTD, how did you do your HO conversion?

you running the TB off a mustang? & dod you do the CPU swap?

i'd love to see pics!

_________________________
she is for sale.

1987 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX
5.0 liter EFI High Output
Police Package suspension
other custom goodies

Top
#9625 - 07/30/01 05:22 PM Re: Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
Dondo Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 2477
Loc: Clearwater, Florida
Could any one tell me just what of the HO I have to use,,,,, I have the complete engine.. Some are saying that I need the computer,,, some are saying I don't ! Which is it,,, My car is a 1987 Crown Vic,,, with a normal 302,,, I want to install the 302 HO with the least amount of work as I need to do...
Dondo..
_________________________


1997CV-P71,3:27rear gears,Scanguage,hella 2020 model fog/driving lights, Lincoln Town Car seats front and rear,Crossed drilled and slotted rotors all round.

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#9626 - 07/30/01 10:05 PM Re: Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
1987LTDmasta Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 11462
Loc: Chicago, IL.
dondo, if you want to avoid the computer swap, go with that HO, but stuff in an 87+ 5.0 f-150/econoline cam.

but if you dont mind a computer swap, go for that and you can keep the HO in tact.

why? EFI computer..

firing order is different-

HO Mustang - 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8

CV 5.0 - 1 5 4 2 6 3 7 8

F-150/econoline 5.0 - 1 5 4 2 6 3 7 8

you have a choice, buddy.

_________________________
she is for sale.

1987 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX
5.0 liter EFI High Output
Police Package suspension
other custom goodies

Top
#9627 - 07/31/01 11:07 PM Re: Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
AOD Offline

Grand Poobah

Registered: 12/06/00
Posts: 11494
Loc: Asheville, North Carolina
the numbers he gave for the 98-00 models are crank numbers i do belive.

dont even compare to the 5.0 MRLTD dynoed.

apples and oranges (and douchebags)

AOD

_________________________

'85 2-Door Crown Victoria - Faster than the Sig Police!
302 HO, -0.022" E7 Heads, Weiand Intake, Edelbrock 1406 Carb, Mechanical Fuel Pump, HEI Distributor, 180* T-stat, Shift Kit, HO Governor, Lokar Cables, B&M Torq Master Converter, FRPP Trans Cooler, Mustang Headers, 2.25" Dual Exhaust, Flowtech H-pipe, Hooker AeroChamber Mufflers, 2.5" Side-Exit Exhaust, Police Shocks, Cut PI Front Springs in the Rear, PI Rear Sway Bar, 17" Sport Wheels, 245/50/Z17 Tires, 4.10 Rear End Gears, Trac Lok Diff
'05 Crown Victoria LX Sport '02 Jeep Liberty '95 Mazda Miata '82 Honda MB5 Motorcycle

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#9628 - 07/31/01 12:21 PM Re: Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
metroplex Offline
Metroplectic

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 49817
Loc: Motor City, USA
215 is 98-00 crank hp

so its 180 rwhp @ 4500 RPM - that's what the 98-00 Vics SHOULD be dyno'ing bone stock, according to Jerry.

I don't believe MrLTD has a stock non-HO 5.0, as AOD wanted me to believe.

Anyhow - the max RPM I hit on the STREET is 5600 RPM. That's 44 mph in 1st gear.
Its not a 5.0 where it takes forever to rev up, the 4.6 revs faster. Which is probably why my stock passenger car water pump is dying out. It can't handle the revs.
I can tell you that I've never gone over 4300 RPM in my T-bird, except for that time when I nailed 4500 RPM in 2nd gear. Its very hard to get it up there with a non-HO 5.0
meanwhile, from a standstill launch I can peg 5600 RPM during the 1-2 shift, and take it up to about 4000-4500 RPM in 2nd gear before I'm over the limit - I let off and it drops into OD at 2000 RPM.
Paul can take it to 6000 RPMs.
ChrisP's MarkVIII pulls to 7000 RPM.

Anyhow, MrLTD's Vic is what, 200 lb. lighter than a 92-97 Vic? That's a decent dyno sheet, and the hp and torque figures resemble the 4.6 more than it does a stock non-HO 5.0

stock 2001 is 235 hp @ 4750 RPM or roughly 195 rwhp @ 4750 RPM, and 233 rwtq @ 4000 RPM.


the 5.0 makes slightly more low end torque, but again - it has GOBS more torque at a HIGHER RPM than the non-HO 5.0/5.8s - you want more torque at a higher RPM for anything performance related.

gobs of low end torque is fine for daily commuting, but not for the 1/4 strip or any other types of racing.

[ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: Heavy-Metal Metroplex ]

_________________________
These aren't the droids you're looking for!

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#9629 - 07/31/01 01:11 PM Re: Engine Swap,,, 302,,, Crown Vic,,, to a 302 HO Mustang engine
AOD Offline

Grand Poobah

Registered: 12/06/00
Posts: 11494
Loc: Asheville, North Carolina
mmmhmmmn charlie...and how many of us do racing?

*ding*

to correct you, as your still in denial...how is MRLTD's vic lighter then a 92-97...we already went over that its the same as a 98+, if not heavier.

and to your dismay...a lowly 5.0 put those numbers out...

obviously all that ripping into the 5.0's torque you do it, is getting his 87 down the strip faster then any 92+ or 98+ will ever see besides pauls.

AOD

_________________________

'85 2-Door Crown Victoria - Faster than the Sig Police!
302 HO, -0.022" E7 Heads, Weiand Intake, Edelbrock 1406 Carb, Mechanical Fuel Pump, HEI Distributor, 180* T-stat, Shift Kit, HO Governor, Lokar Cables, B&M Torq Master Converter, FRPP Trans Cooler, Mustang Headers, 2.25" Dual Exhaust, Flowtech H-pipe, Hooker AeroChamber Mufflers, 2.5" Side-Exit Exhaust, Police Shocks, Cut PI Front Springs in the Rear, PI Rear Sway Bar, 17" Sport Wheels, 245/50/Z17 Tires, 4.10 Rear End Gears, Trac Lok Diff
'05 Crown Victoria LX Sport '02 Jeep Liberty '95 Mazda Miata '82 Honda MB5 Motorcycle

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