Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30

Posted by: Al

Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/25/08 06:35 PM

My 01 P71 was a slug, I think it had some kind of Highway option or something. 2.73's were in it. I had the 4.30's installed by a proffesional so I am not worried about them wearing out prematurely. What I am worried about is my transmission, however, after about 250 miles my O/D Off light started to blink. I like the acceleration the 4.30's provide, but is it going to tear apart my car? I get a noise around 85mph, but attribute that to brand new gears, hopefully after a week or two that will go away, or else I will be taking it back for service under warranty. Anyhow, I would like to ask for some opinions from the old timers about tall gears in these CV's.
Thanks,
Al...
Posted by: kustomizingkid

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/25/08 06:40 PM

Did you get a tune when you got the new gears? It is recomended to get a tune if you go more than 2 steps, 2.73, 3.08, 3.27, 3.55, 3.73, 4.10, 4.30.... you went a couple more than two so I would have to say a tune could really help, your car is a bit confused right now.
Posted by: Dan The Vic Man

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/25/08 06:53 PM

Ah the noise you are hearing is driveshaft noise,you could try and get a MMC driveshaft from a 99 cvpi to try and make it not so noisey, i would have gone with 4:10s the highest gear. Usually when the o/d light is flashing it means you have a tranny code, could be a smoked od band, a faulty electrical part, many things.
Posted by: Quickvic30

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/25/08 07:09 PM

4.30's holy cows \:D

You might want to think about the forced lube tailshaft mod also. i can't imagine what that would be like with 4.30's \:\)
Posted by: tackleberry

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/25/08 07:25 PM

say goodbye to gas mileage lol
Posted by: P71_CrownVic

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/25/08 07:32 PM

4.30???

You can probably do a brake stand just by dropping it in drive and stepping on the brake.
Posted by: dRock96Marquis

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/25/08 07:54 PM

Go to autozone and have it scanned (free) and post up the code.



You will need a relfash with that much change in axle ratio.

3.27 is standard for CVPI. Your real axle may have been swapped in favor of a normal retail 2.73 axle because of a problem of better mileage.



The noise you hear at 85mph is probably your drive shaft. The rotational speed traveling that fast with 4.30s must be VERY high. Try to keep speeds below 90mph, and cruising speed below 75. Look into forced lube modification and an AMMC driveshaft IS A MUST.
Posted by: TechnoWeenie

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/25/08 08:02 PM

I ditched 3.27's for 2.73's, even with only one 'jump' the shifting is noticeably off, I can't even imagine what yours are...
Posted by: SilverSport

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/25/08 09:09 PM

If I were you I would unistall those gears ASAP. Our SOHC engines do not favor those very high gears, they are much more suited to the DOHC with a stick (Cobra Mustangs). I think most Marauder guys go with 4.10's and even those are too high for the SOHC motors. I think the general consensous is to gear no higher than 3.73's for street driven Vics and even then I would not put that much gear in a stock motor. As the others have mentioned, a custom tune for the trans is mandatory for a major gear change.
Posted by: kustomizingkid

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/25/08 09:27 PM

I think that much gear would be awesome, if you were willing to deal with the gas mileage and cruise rpms. He just needs a good tune and all will be well again.
Posted by: PantherP73

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/26/08 12:10 AM

I would imagine he's over 2300 rpm or so with those gears...

Just out of curiosity, why would you go so high? That's hard on the engine and probably everything else.
Posted by: jaybird

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/26/08 01:05 AM

man thats quick off the line huh? i have 3.55 stck and i wonder what 3.73 were like 4.30 wow must boogie up to 60 then it gets loud? It may harm your engine w/o said tune ASAP
sounds like fun though..Enjoy & post a burnout Pic/Video
Posted by: SteelCityMarquis

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/26/08 01:15 AM

Holy Jump!!!! Better get that forced lube, AMMX, and a tune ASAP!

If you decide to keep definitly post a pic/video!
Posted by: 96bluvic

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/26/08 01:18 AM

its not gona harm the engine, just get a proper tune, the MMC driveshaft and maybe a loop.
did you correct the speedo.
I bet it feels nice, these cars need all the gearing from a stop, 4.30's arent high enough....
Posted by: Allen Maty

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/26/08 10:34 AM

You should get a scangaugeII and see what RPM your driveshaft is spinning. In fact does anyone know what the resonate frequency (in RPM) of a steel or aluminum drivshaft is?

If you knew then you could read it right off your scangauge and avoid that speed.
Posted by: whdahel

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/26/08 01:23 PM

Now here is a guy that isn't afraid of the price of gas and the power of a V8. Thats awsome!

Sounds like all you really need is a tune a Drive shaft and your in business.


how low of gears would the aluminum D/S be good to?
Posted by: dRock96Marquis

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/26/08 01:38 PM

 Originally Posted By: whdahel
Now here is a guy that isn't afraid of the price of gas and the power of a V8. Thats awsome!

Sounds like all you really need is a tune a Drive shaft and your in business.


how low of gears would the aluminum D/S be good to?


I'd only go to 3.73, or 4.10 if you keep speeds highway or lower.
Posted by: Mileaway

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/26/08 04:50 PM

Whiplash disclaimer come with 4.30s?
Posted by: natedog

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/26/08 05:21 PM

Wow.

2.73's to 4.30's, that's quite an impressive leap.
Posted by: REAL4WD

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/26/08 06:13 PM

I would sure say. I have 3.55s and im worried bout gas prices. haha. tell me how the 4.30 gears work. eventually i might swap my gears.
Posted by: P71CVMAN

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/26/08 06:23 PM

WOW \:D I went from 3.27s to 3.73s and I needed a tune as the tranny just didn't feel the same. My 3.73s are at 2200ish @ 60MPH. I thought I had no regard for the cost of gas when I went with my 3.73s and a 93 octane tune!
Posted by: JWhittaker

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/26/08 06:47 PM

 Originally Posted By: whdahel
Now here is a guy that isn't afraid of the price of gas and the power of a V8. Thats awsome!

Sounds like all you really need is a tune a Drive shaft and your in business.


how low of gears would the aluminum D/S be good to?


Excellent, seconded! By the way does he have the lowest gear on CVN, I can't recall a lower gear in someone's car?
Posted by: observer

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/26/08 07:44 PM

very interesting ratio

what rpms are you hitting at various mphs

you are geared lower than many 1 ton trucks
Posted by: 95merckid

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/26/08 07:57 PM

he's got lower gears than a OTR Truck they only come with 4.11 altho id like to see a vic with 4.56 gears
Posted by: autotech57103

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/26/08 10:46 PM

4.30 is a CV is insane. They would be good for running 1/4 miles and if you wanted to pull something the size of a mobile home. 4.10 in a pickup are more reasonable because they have a taller tire thus more mph per rpm of the axleshaft. I useto drive a 89 F250 without overdrive and it would turn 3000 rpms at 60mph so the 4.30 ratio in the CV would be even worse. So ballpark rpm of the driveshaft at 85 would be in the neighborhood of 4500. With a .70 OD ratio that would put the engine rpm a little over 3100. Hope you add some protection for yourself from the driveshaft. It will be a murder weapon when it flys apart and goes thru the floor and out the roof.
Posted by: MountainDewSVT

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/26/08 11:20 PM

Seriously people, is the driveshaft that big of a problem on crown vics? I don't understand why it would be. I've pushed my Cobra to 160mph several times and it holds up fine, even at 5500rpm in 4th (which is about 120 if I remember correctly). Seriously, is there something I'm missing??
Posted by: Quickvic30

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/26/08 11:21 PM

YES it's about 2 feet longer than a stang shaft.
Posted by: MountainDewSVT

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/26/08 11:27 PM

 Originally Posted By: Quickvic30
YES it's about 2 feet longer than a stang shaft.


Which is what I assume causes flexing at higher RPMs?
Posted by: Quickvic30

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/26/08 11:35 PM

Yes sir \:\)
Posted by: Big_Bad_Joe

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/27/08 12:10 AM

 Originally Posted By: MountainDewSVT
Seriously people, is the driveshaft that big of a problem on crown vics? I don't understand why it would be. I've pushed my Cobra to 160mph several times and it holds up fine, even at 5500rpm in 4th (which is about 120 if I remember correctly). Seriously, is there something I'm missing??


yup this aint no mustang.. so get those thoughts out of your head...

as far as pulling the quarter mile.. no way he will pull those gears on a stock motor...

he hasnt got enough motor
Posted by: Bobert2647

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/27/08 12:14 AM

4.30's dayum, little extreme, don't you think. About 2900rpm's at 75mph. Yea I'd back down to 3.27's of 3.55's

If you do a lot of highway, than 3.27's should offer a better balance.
Posted by: BigJon

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/27/08 12:18 AM

good point joe. to have the ideal setup, you should match the gearing to engine. right now my 3.55s are just about ideal. once i go to a pi intake with my other mods, something more aggressive(though slightly) will be optimal.

although, i would love to feel what those 4.30s are like, lol. \:\)
Posted by: REAL4WD

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/27/08 04:28 AM

If i do a PI intake with a new plenum and 70mm throttle body with a short ram intake fed by a CAI Ram Air plus shorty headers and a custom exhaustwould my stock 3.55 Gears be fine? I'm going to switch to posi if that makes a difference.
Thanks
Posted by: BigJon

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/27/08 07:57 AM

your 3.55s will be fine. definitely get the trac-lok(posi), you will love it.
Posted by: 98VicP71

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/27/08 08:12 AM

you need a drive shaft loops most def. I would also do the forced lube mod and try and find you a MMC driveshaft.
Posted by: Bigcarlover

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/27/08 04:22 PM

 Originally Posted By: Big_Bad_Joe

as far as pulling the quarter mile.. no way he will pull those gears on a stock motor...

he hasnt got enough motor



Can you please explain what you mean here?
Posted by: autotech57103

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/27/08 09:43 PM

Suppose if you are delivering pizza in a neighborhood that rarely sees hiway those gears would be ok, lol
Posted by: BigJon

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/27/08 10:02 PM

 Originally Posted By: Bigcarlover
 Originally Posted By: Big_Bad_Joe

as far as pulling the quarter mile.. no way he will pull those gears on a stock motor...

he hasnt got enough motor



Can you please explain what you mean here?


in layman's terms, you need more hp to be truly beneficial in the 1/4 mile.

steeper gears help with tq multiplication. once the gearing is 'used' you need the hp to take over. you do not have enough.
Posted by: Georges93LX

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/27/08 10:45 PM

 Originally Posted By: Al
My 01 P71 was a slug, I think it had some kind of Highway option or something. 2.73's were in it. I had the 4.30's installed by a proffesional so I am not worried about them wearing out prematurely. What I am worried about is my transmission, however, after about 250 miles my O/D Off light started to blink. I like the acceleration the 4.30's provide, but is it going to tear apart my car? I get a noise around 85mph, but attribute that to brand new gears, hopefully after a week or two that will go away, or else I will be taking it back for service under warranty. Anyhow, I would like to ask for some opinions from the old timers about tall gears in these CV's.
Thanks,
Al...

Just an old timers opinion.
Posted by: REAL4WD

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/28/08 07:13 AM

 Originally Posted By: BigJon
your 3.55s will be fine. definitely get the trac-lok(posi), you will love it.


Thanks. Is the trac-lok hard to install?

 Originally Posted By: 98VicP71
you need a drive shaft loops most def. I would also do the forced lube mod and try and find you a MMC driveshaft.


and i believe a already hav a mmc driveshaft due to the fact i own a CVPI.
Posted by: 98VicP71

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/28/08 07:19 AM

 Originally Posted By: AEQUITAS_VERITAS
 Originally Posted By: BigJon
your 3.55s will be fine. definitely get the trac-lok(posi), you will love it.


Thanks. Is the trac-lok hard to install?

 Originally Posted By: 98VicP71
you need a drive shaft loops most def. I would also do the forced lube mod and try and find you a MMC driveshaft.


and i believe a already hav a mmc driveshaft due to the fact i own a CVPI.


you will want to physically check your DS to make sure it is MMC as it was only an option the aluminum DS was standard on all CVPIs.

Track lock install requires the entire rear end to be torn down and rebuilt from what I understand so it would be something you may want a shop to install. Don't quote me on that but that is what I understand anyway.
Posted by: JWhittaker

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/28/08 02:17 PM

It is difficult if you don't have experience on rear ends....I've been thinking bout doing it myself but this is one area I don't have any "wrench time on". So the Vic will go to the shop when I find 3.55's and a job:) Already have the trac-loc in the basement thanks to Buck
Posted by: REAL4WD

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/29/08 03:11 AM

 Originally Posted By: 98VicP71
 Originally Posted By: AEQUITAS_VERITAS
 Originally Posted By: BigJon
your 3.55s will be fine. definitely get the trac-lok(posi), you will love it.


Thanks. Is the trac-lok hard to install?

 Originally Posted By: 98VicP71
you need a drive shaft loops most def. I would also do the forced lube mod and try and find you a MMC driveshaft.


and i believe a already hav a mmc driveshaft due to the fact i own a CVPI.


you will want to physically check your DS to make sure it is MMC as it was only an option the aluminum DS was standard on all CVPIs.

Track lock install requires the entire rear end to be torn down and rebuilt from what I understand so it would be something you may want a shop to install. Don't quote me on that but that is what I understand anyway.


and how do i know how to tell the difference between an aluminum and a mmc driveshaft?
Posted by: BigJon

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/29/08 03:36 AM

seeing that you have a 00 p71, you have the ammc ds. unless someone swapped it out, i doubt that.
Posted by: 98VicP71

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/31/08 07:31 AM

you can't say he is garanteed to have the MMC driveshaft as it was an option just like the 3:55 gears. I have seen some 99's and 00s with the normal aluminum drive shaft and 3:27 gears.

There is a thread on the board already about the MMC shaft and how to determine if you have it.

I believe it is a green stripe or something on it. I can't remember off the top of my head though.
Posted by: BigJon

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/31/08 12:45 PM

all 00's received 3.55 gearing and the ammc ds on the p71. 3.27 were not offered as an option for that model year.

if anyone has a 2000 p71 with an aluminum ds or 3.27 gears, they were swapped in or the rear axle was replaced with a different model year.
Posted by: BigJon

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 03/31/08 12:48 PM

and yes, there will be a stamp on the ds that says ammc or mmc.

i think there was a green strip and possibly an orange one too. it has been a while since i have seen one. hopefully i will have one soon...
Posted by: Al

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/31/08 01:23 PM

I will tell you a little story about the gears. I have a 8.8 rear end set up with 3.73's on the side of the house, I was going to put those in the CV. Then I was talking to a buddy who called me a P^%$Y if I put those in. A real man, he says, would go 4.30, not wanting my manhood questioned I ordered the gears the next day. Summit or Ford dealer is the only place I could find them. Anyhow, I was really happy when I picked it up and hit the GO pedal and almost forgot I was in a 4K+ lbs. car. Then 3 days later the O/D light started to flash. My speedo is still off, I am guessing 100 on speedo is 80MPH. The installer put in a 23 tooth speedo gear, but said that is only good up to 3.73's. I talked to my Trans guy about a tune up on the trans, I am getting the driveline balanced and new U-joints this next weekend. Does anybody make a bolt on Driveshaft loop, seems a little extreme, I typically don't go over 90, but hey, you never know. I am planning on taking it to Irwindale 1/8 mile or Palmdale for the 1/4 soon. I will make sure I get pics and a video, I do like nice long burnouts at the track. As for Gas mileage, I took that into consideration, but don't forget it is GNG Powered. $2.75/gallon in CA right now, and I got the compressor for my house that makes it $.90/gallon. Looking to hook it up in the next two weeks. I am trying to figure out a way to temporarily hook up a Tach to see where i am at.

Al...
Posted by: 98VicP71

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 03/31/08 01:35 PM

WOW you did that to a CNG car

I would be curious as to how that holds up.

As to a bolt on Drive Shaft loop yes they make one. Chris from ADTR.net (site sposor) can get one for you and they are not that expensive.
Posted by: Al

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 04/12/08 07:51 PM

Been having tuning problems lately, that will be another post, still on the fence about going back to 3.73's.
Al...
Posted by: luv-my-2002-p71

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 04/12/08 09:45 PM

 Originally Posted By: Al
I will tell you a little story about the gears. I have a 8.8 rear end set up with 3.73's on the side of the house, I was going to put those in the CV. Then I was talking to a buddy who called me a P^%$Y if I put those in. A real man, he says, would go 4.30, not wanting my manhood questioned I ordered the gears the next day. Summit or Ford dealer is the only place I could find them. Anyhow, I was really happy when I picked it up and hit the GO pedal and almost forgot I was in a 4K+ lbs. car. Then 3 days later the O/D light started to flash. My speedo is still off, I am guessing 100 on speedo is 80MPH. The installer put in a 23 tooth speedo gear, but said that is only good up to 3.73's. I talked to my Trans guy about a tune up on the trans, I am getting the driveline balanced and new U-joints this next weekend. Does anybody make a bolt on Driveshaft loop, seems a little extreme, I typically don't go over 90, but hey, you never know. I am planning on taking it to Irwindale 1/8 mile or Palmdale for the 1/4 soon. I will make sure I get pics and a video, I do like nice long burnouts at the track. As for Gas mileage, I took that into consideration, but don't forget it is GNG Powered. $2.75/gallon in CA right now, and I got the compressor for my house that makes it $.90/gallon. Looking to hook it up in the next two weeks. I am trying to figure out a way to temporarily hook up a Tach to see where i am at.

Al...


Wow, impressive. Looks like you shut everyone here up!

nice! ;\)

0.90 a gallon is very impressive.

For a nice transmission: http://www.bc-automotive.com
For a super balanced driveshaft: http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/

Keep up the great work! Let us know how you do in the 1/4.
Post it in the high perf forum.




Posted by: Crown_me_Victor

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 11/23/12 12:08 AM

I know I am bringing up this old post but out of pure curiosity, what happens if one were to use a custom made carbon fiber driveshaft with 4.30s? I've read that it allows a 1000 rpm increase in usable engine speed. Does that means that the engine would spin 1,000 rpms lower than normal for this gear ratio?
Posted by: BillyBishop

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 11/23/12 12:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Crown_me_Victor
I know I am bringing up this old post but out of pure curiosity, what happens if one were to use a custom made carbon fiber driveshaft with 4.30s? I've read that it allows a 1000 rpm increase in usable engine speed. Does that means that the engine would spin 1,000 rpms lower than normal for this gear ratio?

Do you have the money to buy a carbon fiber driveshaft?
Posted by: Leadfoot

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 11/23/12 12:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Crown_me_Victor
I know I am bringing up this old post but out of pure curiosity, what happens if one were to use a custom made carbon fiber driveshaft with 4.30s? I've read that it allows a 1000 rpm increase in usable engine speed. Does that means that the engine would spin 1,000 rpms lower than normal for this gear ratio?


No it won't spin 1,000 Rpms lower but because of the weight and construction of the carbon fibre ds it can spin 1,000 Rpms more before it vibrates and flexes as much as the others
Posted by: Leadfoot

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 11/23/12 12:45 AM

As for going with 4,30s , balls to the wall man!! Congrats I love it! Next you need to do a 5 speed swap, you'll love the acceleration that much more and the fifth gear helps a lot!!
Posted by: Drac

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 11/23/12 04:48 AM

Holy old thread.
Posted by: ChrisM_NY

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 11/23/12 03:19 PM

You know we enjoyed all 4 pages of it - 2.73 to 4.30 got sum balls
Posted by: Crown_me_Victor

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 11/24/12 09:32 PM

I don't have the money for a carbon fiber driveshaft or many other things I'd like to get done at the current time. I just got done with my MZT a few months ago and now I'm about to put in dual exhaust. I've just heard and read so much about CF driveshafts and was wondering how it would help with higher numeric gears.
Posted by: Coach_Buzzcut

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 11/26/12 01:22 AM

I read through this thread a while back and read through it again when I saw new posts. Honestly, 4.30s wouldn't be that bad around town. I jumped from 3.27s to 4.10s a while back and around town, there was barely any difference for me. It pulls a lot more revs on the highway though but I rarely leave town so that's of little concern. For the typical town commuter/stoplight dragger, the higher gears like 4.10s and such are very very tolerable. Even before the tune, my car drove fairly normal though it dragged out the gears a little much.
Posted by: Fatsix

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with - 11/26/12 02:23 PM

Driving in the rain and on cold tires is what sucks with higher gears. Spin spin spin. Turn a corner in the rain and bump the throttle, here comes the ass end around. Other than that they are fun.

I have 4:30's in T/A with nittos and double the HP. Would i put 4:30's in this car? Nah, I just want to get in the car and go, and not have to "DRIVE".

Posted by: 6lbsoft

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 11/26/12 03:35 PM

My 97 F150 running a 33" tire had 4.30's and it felt almost too low for freeway use...
Posted by: Fatsix

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 11/26/12 08:34 PM

Originally Posted By: 6lbsoft
My 97 F150 running a 33" tire had 4.30's and it felt almost too low for freeway use...

7" difference in tire diameter changes things...a lot.
Posted by: CameronVic

Re: Gear Swap: Did I bite off too much, went with 4.30 - 11/27/12 12:30 AM

Yea, like a 22" rollout difference!