motor oil

Posted by: dmitriy

motor oil - 01/17/10 12:16 AM

Hello friends. my crown vic 1992 written on the plastic motor oil 20w40. But chiltone says 5w30. Who is right? Which oil is better to pour into such a machine. climate we have -10 C to 40C.
thank you
Posted by: BlueFusion

Re: motor oil - 01/17/10 12:23 AM

5W30 or 5W20, whichever is cheaper and available to you.
Posted by: dmitriy

Re: motor oil - 01/17/10 12:53 AM

but on the plastic lid, which closes the radiator, a sticker. In her scheme of belt accessories and inscription oil 20W 40. I did not invent. I looked at the second car - there just
Posted by: BlueFusion

Re: motor oil - 01/17/10 12:58 AM

See the oil recommendation here or view as pdf.
Posted by: SPM

Re: motor oil - 01/17/10 02:47 AM

No way should 20W-40 be used, that's WAY too heavy (and I don't think I've even seen that particular blend before).

5W-30 was the factory fill, and 5W-20 is what's recommended now. Either one will do the job.
Posted by: Tracy

Re: motor oil - 01/17/10 05:31 AM

I've seen 20W-50 for racing.

Guys, I just noticed that the OP is from ukraine, could that be why his suggests 20w40, could that be the US equivalent of 5w30 or 5W20??
Posted by: Dan04Merc

Re: motor oil - 01/17/10 09:35 AM

Keep in mind that is an oil recommendation made in 1992. I think 5w20 would be a good choice.
Posted by: dmitriy

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 03:36 AM

that's the sticker on the plastic http://foto.mail.ru/mail/trudovie_rezervi/_myphoto/48.html

http://foto.mail.ru/mail/trudovie_rezervi/_myphoto/49.html

http://content.foto.mail.ru/mail/trudovie_rezervi/_myphoto/i-49.jpg
it says use 20W-40 oil api service sf. sf / cc, sg. of sf / cd
and 5W20 - this train synthetics, and in cars in 1992 recommended mineral oil?
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 08:05 AM

dmitriy,

The old oil recommendations are superceeded by Ford for the following oils in chronological order, 5W-30, 5W-20, and 0W-20 with the 0W-20 oil being the latest recomendation. Any of these oils would protect easily down to -30C with the 0W oil down below -30C. Any of these oils will also protect the engine up to ambient temperatures of 40C. If you are super concerned about engine wear in summer you could run straight 30W if the temperatures do not drop below 20C. That said any of the oils above will work well in our engines. A 20W-40 oil will only protect the engine to 10C and is way too thick for -10C. A 20W-40 oil should be used in Sahara desert type conditions only. I think you bought a car intended for tropical use only. If I were you I would use a 0W-20 oil and if not available go with either the 5W-20 or the 5W-30 oils if available.

Stalag
Posted by: ford05

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 08:49 AM

for a 2000 crown vic lx hpp with 130K on the dash, what kind of oil would be best? I'm useing 10-40 right now. I'm going for a oil change on saturday. Should i keep doing 10-40 or go with something esle? I'm going to try royal purple motor oil with a motorcraft oil filter.
Posted by: dmitriy

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 09:13 AM

You are absolutely right. are a lot of labels in Arabic. And one more question. Mineral oil or synthetic? or no difference, if only in line with sg
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 09:37 AM

Ford00,

You should due to the tight tolerances in our engines and in the climate you live go immediately to a lighter oil. Optimally you should be using 0W-20 already but I would step through series of oil changes every 3000 mi of 5W-30, 5W-20 before using the 0W-20 which is what you should be using. Ford specifies the lighter oils so that the timing chain tensioners and valve lash adjusters are pressured quicker in a cold start. For North America the temperature extremes are wide enough that unless you are running the car 8 hours/day 7 days/week you do not need/want to use a 10W-40 at all. Something like 10W-40 is intended for commercial use where engines are NOT shut down for multiple hours or in older engines with very loose tolerances produced before the 1980 model year. I doubt you have either of those cases true for your 2000 CV. The only reason for the step down in oil viscosity is to "wash" the heavier oils out. If you use oils heavier than recomended by the manufacturer you can lose your warranty.

Hope this helps.

Dmitriy,

Use of synthetics vs. conventional oil is still a hot topic you will find a lot of debate on. I personally use a full synthetic oil with a Group IV base stock because these oils protect the engine better. However they are more expensive. If you change the oil every 5000km you can use either with absolutely no bad effects. A good synthetic like Mobil 1 or Amsoil though can protect an engine up to 15000km with no problems. Note Castrol Syntec is a Group III oil (highly refined but not full synthetic) but none the less a good oil to use as well but keep in mind the 5000km recommendation for oil changes with this oil.

Hope this helps.

Stalag
Posted by: BlueFusion

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 10:55 AM

I would not go as low as 0W-20 unless I was in Canada. Even here in Northern Ohio where it periodically drops below 0F, 5W-20 is just fine year round. It's what Ford recommends and uses at the dealer and that or 5W-30 has been used in this car since new and no problems thus far concerning engine wear. And starts up just fine in those cold conditions, too.
Posted by: ford05

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 11:47 AM

I'll start with 5-30 on my next oil change. I'm not planning on going as low as 0-20.
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 11:57 AM

Just trying to let you know. For most of us in North America either 5W-20 or 5W-30 is more than sufficient. You probably will see better gas milage with the 5W-20 oil though. 0W-20 should be synthetic oil though (Group IV basestock) but you should also see some additional milage improvement. However your milage may vary.

Stalag
Posted by: ford05

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 12:39 PM

I'm not worrying about milage being that I have 4.10 gears. When going with 5-30, should i use synthetic or will regular but be fine?
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 01:18 PM

Either would be okay but if you go with conventional oil do the 3000mi oil changes.

Stalag
Posted by: Codyy

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 01:21 PM

I'm using Motorcraft oil which I've been told is a semi-syn. blend.
Posted by: flyboy

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 01:44 PM

Motorcraft does have a fully synthetic oil. Just got a flyer with a coupon from local Ford dealer for a oil change with synthetic oil for the LTC including a filter for $29.50. That's a lot less than what I pay for Mobil 1 oil alone.
Posted by: ford05

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 01:48 PM

i rather do my oil change every 3000 miles then to wait 5000. I'll be useing conventional oil. Thanks alot.
Posted by: BlueFusion

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 03:12 PM

I have not noticed a difference between 5W-20 and 5w-30 whatsoever. I believe there is a difference, but so minute you won't be able to notice it. I get whichever is available. I get the 5.25qt jug of Motorcraft 5W-20 at Walmageddon for about $12. Atleast I think it's 5W-20.
Posted by: D-Fenz

Re: motor oil - 01/21/10 04:57 PM

My car is on a full syn diet and has been since new, even while it was in police service. The 7500 mile or more change interval is very nice.
Posted by: dmitriy

Re: motor oil - 01/22/10 12:16 AM

What is the difference tolerances Ford
Ford WSS-M2C-913( castrol, chell, mobil ...) and WSS-M2C 153(chevron, motorcraft....)
my car 1992
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/22/10 07:53 AM

Ford tests with Mobil 1 products. That said any oil meeting the minimum specifications for your model year is okay.

Stalag
Posted by: dmitriy

Re: motor oil - 01/22/10 08:04 AM

some of these oils, I pour ford crown 1992 engine romeo:
kenndal 5w30gt1, Chevron Supreme Motor 5w30, valvoline MaxLife 10W-40 / 5W-40 orValvoline Synpower 5W30 MST. Petro-Canada 5W30 and Mobil 1 Extended Life 10W-60: a car mileage of 400 thousand kilometers and made overhaul of the engine
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/22/10 08:33 AM

The Kenndal 5w30gt1, the Chevron Supreme Motor 5w30, the Valvoline Synpower 5w30MST, or the Petro-Canada 5w30 would be my choices. Any of these oils would be good. The Valvoline synpower oil is a synthetic oil and after engine breakin of 3000km after the rebuild I would personally use this oil if Mobil 1 5w30 or 5w20 or 0w20 were not available. The other 3 choices make better breakin oil. Reason is that synthetic oils are too good at eliminating scuffing which is needed to seat the piston rings to the cylinder walls. Hope this helps.

Stalag
Posted by: dmitriy

Re: motor oil - 01/22/10 08:47 AM

You helped me a lot. thank you
Posted by: 05CVpursuitvehic

Re: motor oil - 01/22/10 08:10 PM

It costs me a left nut to keep my 05 CV and two other vehicles on a synthetic diet every 5k.
NASCAR uses it and I have personally seen it go into two Roush Racing vehicles. The mechanic told me no other oil can protect as well as synthetic.
Posted by: PoliceInterceptr

Re: motor oil - 01/22/10 10:46 PM

I use 5w-30 Quaker State High Mileage with a Motorcraft oil filter. Less than $20 for an oil change and never had any problems.
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/23/10 12:57 AM

If you notice Dmitriy lives in the Ukraine.

Stalag
Posted by: mcclinj

Re: motor oil - 01/23/10 02:57 AM

Im sure this has been adressed before, but is 5W-20 the recommended oil for all the panther engines, or only engines made in or after the year the change was made? Im still using 5W-30 in my '96 CV LX , but am thinking of trying the 5W-20 soon.

any thoughts?

-John
Posted by: dmitriy

Re: motor oil - 01/23/10 03:01 AM

that's for sure. Ukraine. translated incorrectly. what to choose.
kenndal 5w30gt1, Chevron Supreme Motor 5w30, valvoline MaxLife 10W-40 / 5W-40 orValvoline Synpower 5W30 MST. Petro-Canada 5W30 and Mobil 1 Extended Life 10W-60: a car mileage of 400 thousand kilometers and made overhaul of the engine.
and how you relate to motor oils for cars with mileage - Mobil 1 Extended Life 10W-60 and valvoline MaxLife 10W-40 / 5W-40. They, too, but with synthetic high viscosity. And of course we must not forget that we have a very bad gasoline with high sulfur content. Therefore IDEX acidity must be at least 10 (kenndall and mobil). available is kendal (he's 76lubricant), canada-petrol and valvoline (on the market of retail products are different, but on the wholesale sale Concern texaco is valvoline and havoline). mobil, castrol, and other famous brands - 80% fake.
Unfortunately of Chevron in Ukraine to close
plus everything in America is no boundary between synthetic and mineral oils. Most oils are made hydrocracking way, right?
Thank you for your patience
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/23/10 01:16 PM

If the oil is obviously a knockoff then do not use the oil as the quality is questionable (being polite about this). Most good oils made today will have a sufficient base number to deal with the high sulfer gasoline (petrol) you have in country. The 10-60 though is way too thick for your engine. You will need a thinner oil for the way your engine works. Most oil here in the US is refined base stock and is hydrocracked (not wanting to give a chemistry lesson here) but a hydrocracked oil still has paraffins in the oil leading to a small sludging concern if not changed regularly. A full synthetic oil is made by synthesizing the molecules used in the oil then mixed in proportions to match the desired viscosity numbers. In both oils after the viscosity is adjusted other additives are added to reduce corrosion, enhance lubricity, adsorb acids, detergents for cleaning, etc. These additives are added on a per batch basis. Millions of dollars are spent to adjust these formulations. As a result, aftermarket additives are NOT recommended for modern high quality oils. Please keep this in mind when choosing an oil.

Hope this helps.

Stalag
Posted by: 98P73_IRAQ

Re: motor oil - 01/23/10 01:38 PM

how much oil that your engine burns every "lets say 1000km" ?

i had a 1992 crownvic and she had a bad valve seals.

my point is, the 1992-95 have this issue (un-normal oil burning) due to the valve seals. also the old age PCV.

then, you must think seriously about the oil you are puttin, since the thinner the oil means more oil burning, the burned oil is a big problem itself and must be considered.

my ex-92 was burning a quart each 400 miles which is sick and killed alot of my fees since i was putting 5w30 full synthetic once driving me mad then, then i switched to 10w40 synthetic then i sold the car without knowing how much she burns then.

now in my 98, the first oil change i used 20w50 cheap oil TWICE since the deposits go out (with short oil change periods). then i put 5w30 full synthetic with new filter in the start of winter.

now she burns a quart each 1000km wich is fair to me since the engine has 120000 miles. my next oil changes will be 10w40 all season because as we know the thicker the oil means less consumption (burning) and as i said before the burned oil is a separate big problem itself.

finally:

if i have a 92, i will put 20w50 regular oil, then check the consumption, if she is in a good state then switch to synthetic with a similar or approximate value. if she burns alot (like she was hoe!) then put the thicker the oil you find !
Posted by: dmitriy

Re: motor oil - 01/23/10 03:49 PM

98P73_IRAQ.I think that your car is in my.lol
Posted by: 98P73_IRAQ

Re: motor oil - 01/23/10 04:02 PM

do you mean the one in the left?
Posted by: 98P73_IRAQ

Re: motor oil - 01/23/10 04:02 PM

in your dreams lol.
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/23/10 04:11 PM

I had a 1997 Mercury Grand Marquis with 190000 miles that did not burn any oil. Burning of oil is indicative of other problems with the engine. This does not include the valve stem seal problem reported in early 199x models that cause oil "burning"

Stalag
Posted by: 98P73_IRAQ

Re: motor oil - 01/23/10 04:15 PM

yeah, like piston rings for example.

chinease rings still fine for 10000 miles then start to act up. OEM stuff is little rare here.
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/23/10 05:15 PM

Is it possible to order from like Jegs or Summit and have them ship needed parts? I know that the cheap chinese crap abounds for you but I am wondering if some normalacy has developed for you. Online ordering can be slow but many companies here are willing to ship.

stalag
Posted by: dmitriy

Re: motor oil - 01/23/10 11:35 PM

friends, I think it's time to finish.
conclusion is obvious. to shed 5w30. if the engine has a problem - pouring a viscous oil, or search for the problem of poor performance of the engine. With regard to spare parts. Lonni with bluovalchip said that I Caribbean mafia, and to me he can not work. I explains to him - I have a hobby American cars. He can not or will not. I think you need some advice or guarantee.
We do not have expertise in repair of American cars. Repair itself. Dismantled and assembled crown from bumper to bumper. Accumulated vast experience and continue to learn. Thanks to your advice
Posted by: 98P73_IRAQ

Re: motor oil - 01/24/10 07:56 AM

just do what i did and you will be fine.
Posted by: ford05

Re: motor oil - 01/24/10 03:20 PM

so after useing 10w40 conventional oil in my crown vic for 2 years, i went with a motorcraft oil filter and 6qts of motor 5w30 fully syenthetic oil yesturday. One thing i can say is that my car starts up way better then before for sure. Not only that but i also noticed a big difference in wot. Car seems to take off better. Is it really possible that the oil did that? I am very impressed.
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/24/10 06:13 PM

yes
Posted by: thegreat22

Re: motor oil - 01/24/10 06:37 PM

what about 10w30 i changed my oil with the mobil oil about 2 months ago
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/24/10 07:35 PM

10W-30 is probably okay for where you are located. If you drive north however I would go with a thinner oil if you do so during the winter.

By the way the lower viscosity oils will create less drag in the engine making for more power.

stalag
Posted by: 98marquis46L

Re: motor oil - 01/25/10 01:31 AM

Either 5w20 or 5w30 should be ok. 20w40 is a no go.
Posted by: ford05

Re: motor oil - 01/25/10 07:20 AM

 Originally Posted By: stalag
yes


why and how?
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/25/10 12:09 PM

By the way the lower viscosity oils will create less drag in the engine making for more power. It is a fluid dynamics thing.

stalag
Posted by: Street_Shark

Re: motor oil - 01/25/10 03:55 PM

 Originally Posted By: stalag
By the way the lower viscosity oils will create less drag in the engine making for more power. It is a fluid dynamics thing.

stalag


at the same time if they viscosity is very low for an extended period of time its a bad thing

for example : 5w20 + 90 degree heeat + 5 hour drive might not be a good thing for obvious reasons
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/25/10 08:32 PM

20W oil can be worked in an engine up to 120F ambient. Unless you are doing extended long distance driving like a truck your assumption is not true with most conditions encountered in the US. The sole exception may be Death Valley in the dead of summer which would require 5w-30.

Stalag
Posted by: 98marquis46L

Re: motor oil - 01/26/10 12:47 AM

Ok I keep 5w30 in my 98 marquis year around now. I used to put 10w30 in it year around, then I found out 5w30 is good in between all purpose oil for this kind of car.Heavy oils are for older cars and vehicles under lots of workload stress. So suit yourself.
Posted by: White Falcon LS

Re: motor oil - 01/26/10 01:07 AM

 Originally Posted By: stalag
The sole exception may be Death Valley in the dead of summer which would require 5w-30.


Part of Ford's 5W-20 testing involved running Expeditions and Navigators, loaded to maximum capacity, for 250,000 miles with 15,000 mile OCIs. If it can pass something as tough as that, and has Ford's backing, then I'm sure Death Valley wouldn't be an exception.

Even at this end, where temperatures get up to 60 C, I have yet to hear of an oil related failure with 5W-20 in Fords.
Posted by: super88

Re: motor oil - 01/26/10 10:43 AM

 Originally Posted By: Landyacht


at the same time if they viscosity is very low for an extended period of time its a bad thing

for example : 5w20 + 90 degree heeat + 5 hour drive might not be a good thing for obvious reasons


IDK, I'm using 5W-20 in my 04 Grand Marquis. I regularly drive from So. California to Arizona. It's about 6 or 7 hour drive (depending on traffic) and last summer it was 110F. and above for most of the trip. (I saw as high as 115)
That was half a dozen trips ago.
Posted by: super88

Re: motor oil - 01/26/10 10:45 AM

 Originally Posted By: White Falcon LS
 Originally Posted By: stalag
The sole exception may be Death Valley in the dead of summer which would require 5w-30.


Part of Ford's 5W-20 testing involved running Expeditions and Navigators, loaded to maximum capacity, for 250,000 miles with 15,000 mile OCIs. If it can pass something as tough as that, and has Ford's backing, then I'm sure Death Valley wouldn't be an exception.

Even at this end, where temperatures get up to 60 C, I have yet to hear of an oil related failure with 5W-20 in Fords.


+1
Posted by: Street_Shark

Re: motor oil - 01/26/10 04:00 PM

i just think there must be a downside.. im not saying for sure..

i personally run 5w-30
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/26/10 05:03 PM

Landyacht,

Actually there is no downside. The tolerances are so much tighter in a 4.6L modular engine (5.4L as well) as opposed to older designs that the thinner oils are more than up to the task of protecting the engine. The tighter tolerances means that the oil films need to be correspondingly thinner as well. The film surface is what allows shear to occur between two moving parts. That shear occurs easier in a lighter weight oil reducing internal friction of the fluid and as a result gives just as good lubrication when the tolerances are tighter. The thicker oils are used where shock protection from parts that are moving to keep them from scuffing/banging together when you have loose tolerances. Also, a high quality synthetic will beat out a conventional oil any day of the week because the designed properties of a mixture of known chemicals verses a weighted fraction from oil distillation allow for better shear and surface protection. Lighter oils are also less prone to production of sludge (because of the better flow properties of the lighter oils leading to less contact time with hot surfaces) and as a result are also better for the longevity of a vehicle.

To make the arguements you are attempting you need an understanding of fluid dynamics and film surfaces to be right on this point. I did, when I was in high school 20 years ago, play with different oils in a 1.6L Subaru Brat. At that time the vehicle called for a 10W-40 weight oil. I found the following points.

1. Heavier oils like 20W-50 did work but bogged the engine.
2. 10W-30 worked reasonably well and was better than 10W-40 as far as performance.
3. Mobil 1 5W-20 found all the leaks in the engine but also cleaned the crankcase and the engine ran much cooler. After a couple of oil changes at 3000K intervals the oil came out much cleaner. I also had a cousin who helped me do the valve lash adjustment on the car comment on how clean the valve assembly was in comparison to other engines he had worked on. Also, I saw the best performance with that oil in my crankcase when I drove the vehicle.

Today being a scientist (PhD) crosstrained as an engineer I now understand why this all works. I would suggest courses in fluid dynamics and study of surface structures before making a vague statement like

" I just think there must be a downside. "

Stalag
Posted by: Street_Shark

Re: motor oil - 01/26/10 05:14 PM

thank you i was basically hoping someone would "school me" on this.

i dont understand fuild dynamics at all, but i do understand the hotter the oil gets the more it thins out...which made me think that it could have negative results.

i made a vague statement because i only vaguely understand it..
if we all were scientists and mechanical engineers there would be no point of this site.

thank you though that does make a little sense to me , do you have any links to some studies or anything like that ? im interested to know more about this, as i was arguing with my teacher about it today, and he has managed to convince the whole class that running heavy oil in the summer / long trips is healthyer for the motor ..
Posted by: stalag

Re: motor oil - 01/26/10 06:22 PM

There are entire textbooks at the college level dedicated to fluid dynamics. Much of the math if you are in high school is even well above your teacher and your teacher may have some trouble comprehending. PM me if you want to chat a bit about this topic.

Stalag
Posted by: turbo2256

Re: motor oil - 01/26/10 06:41 PM

Found this to be an interesting read

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles#faq_motor_oil_basics
Posted by: dmitriy

Re: motor oil - 01/27/10 01:10 AM

5W30 Synthetic or Synthetic Blend. not forgetting - the car in 1992 and 400 thousand kilometers
Posted by: kossi

Re: motor oil - 02/25/10 06:50 PM

 Originally Posted By: "Landyacht"
the hotter the oil gets the more it thins out...which made me think that it could have negative results.

actually you're right, there is something negative: as a fluid film gets thinner it may tear, i don't know if i picked the right word for it, but let's say at certain temperature the film will leave you and there'll be direct fricition.
but: thinner oils are designed to operate within almost every temperature range an engine may be working in, so don't worry about using thin oil, a normal engine won't get into temperature heights where the oil film may tear. nonetheless there are graphics for operation ranges of engine oils, generally, by type. i'm too lazy to look this up, but it shouldn't be too hard to find.
you may divide oils into two types (operational point of view): mono grade and multi grade. so where's that from? mono means they are made for a small temperature range (example SAE 40), works in mostly tropical climate, no major temperature changes throughout the year. multi grade means they have a wider temperature range (example SAE 10W 40), "W" means "winter" (i may be wrong with that one). so they are sold in areas where temperature changes throughout the year, most US for example. the smaller the number gets, the thinner gets the oil, a SAE 30 is thinner than a SAE 40, and its temperature range is also lower, for example: SAE 30 from 0C to 130C, SAE 40 from 5C to 140C. Thats only an example, nothing to do with real numbers, just to explain a bit.
you also may imagine a mono grade for winter, high up north for example, they might need a SAE 10W (never seen though).