Cooling The Transmission Hard Use

Posted by: Traffic22

Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/05/21 02:00 PM

So for anyone who has looked at my profile, you already know I am racing a 2011 CV P7 in the 24 hours of Lemons series. Over Easter weekend we had our first race, finishing 50 out of 132 entries. Actually a great finish considering we are running a stock 4.6, with stock transmission, and stock suspension and open diff 3.27.

We are now in the process of getting the car ready for race 2 in late may.

During our first race, we saw trans temps consistently in the 230-250 range, with a high of 264. We did a fluid change to Valvoline Mercon LV on Sat night, and Sunday we ran cooler at 230-240 most of the day.

Our plan is to do a flush and fill with either Valvoline or Amsoil Mercon LV. They both seem a little more resistant to heat build up.

Also, we are planning on ditching the Trans cooler that is part of the condenser and going with a stand alone B&M 10 row cooler. We hope this will bring out temps down further.

I am soliciting advice on additional ways to bring our temps down.

Just an FYI, we run the car with the OD off, as this keeps the car in a better rev range for racing.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Chuck
Posted by: Old_Guy_Stu

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/05/21 02:06 PM

You're on the right track (so to speak). See what the temp is during the next race with the B&M. Might even need a bigger cooler. Running 230-250 for 24 hours is asking for trouble.
Posted by: RF_Overlord

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/05/21 05:58 PM

Put a fan or the B&M cooler unless you're mounting it in front of the radiator, in which case nevermind. biggrin

A finned aluminium trans pan may help.

J-mod. Say it with me: J-MOD

Now on to one of my pet peeves. Valvoline like to play word games with their ATFs. In this case their DEX6/Mercon LV is licensed for DEX6 but is only "recommended for use in" Mercon LV. Why isn't it also licensed? Will this cause your transmission to immediately kerplode? Of course not, but I'm always uncomfortable with fluids that aren't licensed/approved by the manufacturer.

/rant
Posted by: ironmarinebill64

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/05/21 06:48 PM

50 out of 132 in the 24 Hours of Lemons: You are my hero.

I agree that a full size extra cooler will help, but given that you're essentially running a truly stock car into the ground on purpose, I don't know if I'd pay the extra $$ for a B&M. You might be able to find a lower priced alternative on Ebay or Amazon.

But, there's also the question of whether adding that much more surface area affects line pressure and changes the shift characteristics (not a transmission expert, just spit-ballin possibilities)

Curious: What's the sustained range of the RPMs you're typically running? I ask because you write that you keep it in OD Off, and it's truly a testament to the 4.6's durability to beat it like that.
Posted by: dixiebandit69

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/05/21 10:09 PM

DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR A B&M COOLER. THEY BUY THEIR COOLERS FROM LONG, AND PUT IT IN A B&M BOX.

I can't say this enough, after paying over $100 for a cooler I could have had for less.

I did a writeup about installing one on my MGM, but all the pictures got lost in the infamous site crash of 2017.
I should probably repost those.
Anyway, this is what you want:
https://www.amazon.com/Long-Tru-Cool-Transmission-Cooler-4590/dp/B005XZX8RY

This is just the first one I found in a quick search, but Long Coolers make much larger oil coolers than this, you just have to find them. I've seen them on small power equipment like forklifts an skid-steers. It's really worth looking into.
Posted by: dixiebandit69

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/05/21 11:16 PM

https://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4104132#Post4104132
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/06/21 03:15 AM

Thank you all for all the feedback.

I will for certain check out the Long coolers. We plan to ditch the factory condenser/cooler combo, and run the aftermarket trans cooler as just that, a trans cooler.

I’ve already contacted 88 Grand Marq and am working on rebuilding the valve body, and doing the J-mod, I believe these two streps will help immensely. (And I kind of knew we should have J-moded the trans before)

We’re also going to try a full fill of the Valvoline for the next race. (I’m an Amsoil guy) but the Valvoline has already proven itself (10 degrees cooler between sat and sun) so we’ll roll with it this next time around.

With all do respect to @ironmarinebill64, we are not “running the car into the ground on purpose” in fact, I have 8k and 200+ hours into the build and preparation of this car, not for just one race, but for many Lemons races. (We go to Thunder Hill at the end of May.) And, we have plans for suspension mods in the near future to improve the handling.

It’s kind of hard to say how high our sustained RPMs were. Sonoma is a very up and down track, with a lot of on/off partial throttle. But we did beat the motor pretty hard. Cool side note: Engine temp hummed along between 191-205 all day long, and spent most of the day below 195. Amazing motor (durability wise).

If anyone is interested, here is a link to our Sunday in car cam...recorded the whole 8 hours, including pit stops, fuel dumps, etc. (I apologize for any harsh language in the heat of battle.) You can see the craziness that is Lemons, and some of our good, and bad driving.

https://youtu.be/mhOnM2dMPdc
Posted by: 2008interceptor

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/06/21 09:17 AM

Very cool build I think that standalone trans cooler will help. I was surprised the p71 got a separate power steering cooler. Yet kept the standard production trans condenser setup. I agree it does not seem like you're trying to run down on purpose. If the pressure changed with the cooler you could likely adjust that with a tune. Could probably alter the function of the od button as well. Have it still lockup but not shift into od when off then normal when on. That way you'd still be keeping od from engaging. Yet trans temps would drop + less power loss due to the mechanical connection.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/06/21 10:42 AM

Originally Posted By 2008interceptor
Very cool build I think that standalone trans cooler will help. I was surprised the p71 got a separate power steering cooler. Yet kept the standard production trans condenser setup. I agree it does not seem like you're trying to run down on purpose. If the pressure changed with the cooler you could likely adjust that with a tune. Could probably alter the function of the od button as well. Have it still lockup but not shift into od when off then normal when on. That way you'd still be keeping od from engaging. Yet trans temps would drop + less power loss due to the mechanical connection.


This is a very interesting idea. We had never planned to tune, because the appeal of the CV is it’s extreme durability in stock configuration. We do plan a rear end rebuild at some point with a move to 3.73 and a limited slip, so we can avoid one legging it around the track. That of course will require a programming of the ECU for the new gears. This could be a possible solution to our heat build up, if the other steps don’t work. (Thank you very much, this is a very clever idea.)

On a side note, I don’t want to come off hyper sensitive, but we are not running down the car, or abusing it. Yes, we are driving it hard. Yes we are subjecting it to extreme conditions. But that’s racing.

We actually take very good care of the car. In fact, we’re 48 hours post race, and in the process of fixing a leaky PS line, re-flushing the PS, changing the oil, rebuilding the valve body and changing the ATF again. We’ve also conducted a full inspection of all the suspension components (discovered a cracked front sway bar bushing.) full inspection of the engine, both visual and OBD code read, and full brake inspection.

We love this car and care for it as such. I want to make it clear, we’re not trying to kill the car or break it.
Posted by: 2008interceptor

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/06/21 02:18 PM

Thanks and sorry I didn't mean to infer you were abusing the car knowingly or not. You can usually tell right away by what people are asking what their plan is. Not to mention it'd be rather odd to do endurance races in something you're not taking care of. Properly maintained as you're doing is much better than what some would consider good care (over babying or underuse). By that I mean low miles low maintenance so say fluids don't get up to temp or changed on time rather by miles. As most often drivers ignore the time part and only pay attention to miles for fluids. Like a weekend babied car with 3 year old oil and 10 year old coolant all the hoses just waiting to blow. Because "I don't put many miles on it."
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/06/21 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By 2008interceptor
Thanks and sorry I didn't mean to infer you were abusing the car knowingly or not. You can usually tell right away by what people are asking what their plan is. Not to mention it'd be rather odd to do endurance races in something you're not taking care of. Properly maintained as you're doing is much better than what some would consider good care (over babying or underuse). By that I mean low miles low maintenance so say fluids don't get up to temp or changed on time rather by miles. As most often drivers ignore the time part and only pay attention to miles for fluids. Like a weekend babied car with 3 year old oil and 10 year old coolant all the hoses just waiting to blow. Because "I don't put many miles on it."


No offense taken. And I apologize is I came off as a hyper sensitive D-bag. I am a Panther platform lover. Drove a Marauder for a couple years, and when it came time to do a Lemons build really never considered another car.

As a Panther enthusiast, my goal is to respect the platform. With guys cutting up our cars to turn them into F100, good examples are going to get scarce soon.

My car started as a San Joaquin County Dog car. If I didn't "rescue" it from the auction house, it was headed to a parts yard.

Sorry if it seemed like I lashed out, I really appreciate the help everyone has directly and indirectly supplied over the course of our build, and the last thing I want to do is piss anyone here off. Couldn't have made it this far without you guys. Our victories are your victories too.

Stay tuned for more pics and updates in my build thread...Tranny cooling upgrades, and suspension upgrades coming soon. grin
Posted by: ironmarinebill64

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/06/21 07:08 PM

You really are my hero now!

Just watched some of the in-car camera footage on youtube.

Bravo! And from everything I watched, both the car and your ability as a driver are top notch.
Posted by: 88grandmarq

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/06/21 09:44 PM

Originally Posted By Traffic22
So for anyone who has looked at my profile, you already know I am racing a 2011 CV P7 in the 24 hours of Lemons series. Over Easter weekend we had our first race, finishing 50 out of 132 entries. Actually a great finish considering we are running a stock 4.6, with stock transmission, and stock suspension and open diff 3.27.

We are now in the process of getting the car ready for race 2 in late may.

During our first race, we saw trans temps consistently in the 230-250 range, with a high of 264. We did a fluid change to Valvoline Mercon LV on Sat night, and Sunday we ran cooler at 230-240 most of the day.

Our plan is to do a flush and fill with either Valvoline or Amsoil Mercon LV. They both seem a little more resistant to heat build up.

Also, we are planning on ditching the Trans cooler that is part of the condenser and going with a stand alone B&M 10 row cooler. We hope this will bring out temps down further.

I am soliciting advice on additional ways to bring our temps down.

Just an FYI, we run the car with the OD off, as this keeps the car in a better rev range for racing.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Chuck


here are my thoughts;

1) keep the factory trans cooler and plumb in a large Auxiliary cooler. Personally I like the 8000 series coolers from Derale. part number 13503 should work well. https://derale.com/product-footer/fluid-...-53-27471243954

2) Go away from the Mercon LV fluid and use normal Mercon/Dextron fluid. The LV stands for light viscosity, which means it's really thin fluid and does not handle heat well. plus you can buy a Gallon jug of normal Mercon fluid at walmart for $12-$14.

3) Install a Dorman transmission pan that has a drain plug. pull the plug and do a simple drain and fill on the fluid as often as possible. You might even consider an aftermarket cast aluminum deep pan that will hold 2 qts more fluid. the down side the large pan is it is much lower than the crossmember and will be first thing that hits pavement, if you bottom the car out.

4) Make sure all the factory plastic deflectors are in place on the front of the car. They are there for a reason and direct air flow into the cooling system. The core support cover is very important and I have personally measured 10 degree high trans fluid temps with it missing.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/07/21 12:17 PM

Originally Posted By 88grandmarq
Originally Posted By Traffic22
So for anyone who has looked at my profile, you already know I am racing a 2011 CV P7 in the 24 hours of Lemons series. Over Easter weekend we had our first race, finishing 50 out of 132 entries. Actually a great finish considering we are running a stock 4.6, with stock transmission, and stock suspension and open diff 3.27.

We are now in the process of getting the car ready for race 2 in late may.

During our first race, we saw trans temps consistently in the 230-250 range, with a high of 264. We did a fluid change to Valvoline Mercon LV on Sat night, and Sunday we ran cooler at 230-240 most of the day.

Our plan is to do a flush and fill with either Valvoline or Amsoil Mercon LV. They both seem a little more resistant to heat build up.

Also, we are planning on ditching the Trans cooler that is part of the condenser and going with a stand alone B&M 10 row cooler. We hope this will bring out temps down further.

I am soliciting advice on additional ways to bring our temps down.

Just an FYI, we run the car with the OD off, as this keeps the car in a better rev range for racing.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Chuck


here are my thoughts;

1) keep the factory trans cooler and plumb in a large Auxiliary cooler. Personally I like the 8000 series coolers from Derale. part number 13503 should work well. https://derale.com/product-footer/fluid-...-53-27471243954

2) Go away from the Mercon LV fluid and use normal Mercon/Dextron fluid. The LV stands for light viscosity, which means it's really thin fluid and does not handle heat well. plus you can buy a Gallon jug of normal Mercon fluid at walmart for $12-$14.

3) Install a Dorman transmission pan that has a drain plug. pull the plug and do a simple drain and fill on the fluid as often as possible. You might even consider an aftermarket cast aluminum deep pan that will hold 2 qts more fluid. the down side the large pan is it is much lower than the crossmember and will be first thing that hits pavement, if you bottom the car out.

4) Make sure all the factory plastic deflectors are in place on the front of the car. They are there for a reason and direct air flow into the cooling system. The core support cover is very important and I have personally measured 10 degree high trans fluid temps with it missing.


Thank you so much for the information.
1) I'll take a look at that trans cooler.
2) Excellent info on the fluid, thank you.
3) Done, Dorman pan installed pre-race, and we did a drain and fi on Satruday before the Sunday session. It' helped quite a bit, ran 5-10 degrees cooler all day Sunday. (Still too hot though.)
4)They are there, we didn't remove them.

Thanks for all the help. Dropping pan and valve body today. Assuming no large metal chunks in the pan, valve body will be headed your way soon.

Chuck
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/07/21 04:54 PM

Well, today was a good news day in my little world.

First, when I pulled the tranny pan, it was shockingly clean. In fact, there was not even fuzz on the magnet. (We has found some tiny fuzzy shavings on the magnet when we serviced the trans pre-race. (It was cleaner than that.)

The fluid did not smell too bad, and was remarkably clean. On top of all that, the stuff that fell out of the valve body was perfectly clean.

Our valve body is on it's way to @88Grandmq for him to work his magic.

Now to just figure out which route we want to go with the cooler.
Posted by: RF_Overlord

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/07/21 05:07 PM

Definitely go with Eric's (88grandmarq) advice. He is da' MAN for this transmission.
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/07/21 08:03 PM

I would definitely still use the factory cooler in addition to the one you are adding. I run a 1996 CV in 24 hours of Lemons and Luckydog, we have a medium sized cooler plumbed inline with the factory cooler.

Our factory 4r70w got as hot as yours and wore out the 2nd and 3rd gear clutches. It did have atleast 168,000 miles but the heat killed it.
Posted by: CrystalPistol

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/07/21 09:31 PM

I run my aux cooler in series with the OEM cooler in the return line to the transmission, it's mounted in front of the radiator hanging from the cross bar with two "steadies" attached to lower core support, it gets air that comes in from under the bumper.
Posted by: RF_Overlord

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/08/21 02:23 AM

Originally Posted By CrystalPistol
I run my aux cooler in series with the OEM cooler in the return line to the transmission
Every instruction set I've read from a bunch of cooler and transmission vendors says to do it this way.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/08/21 03:34 AM

I actually had a long discussion with Eric today, super helpful and very knowledgable guys. (Also really nice.) We talked about every thing from Trans Temps, to drive shaft speed, rear gearing, and even a little suspension.

After some discussion, here is the current plan.

1) We are actually going to ditch the OEM cooler and run this monster. (https://derale.com/product-footer/fluid-...54/13504-detail)

The logic here is we are located on the west coast, and most of the races are in the summer months. IF (and I doubt this) we can't get the trans up to operating temp, we'll pull the old NASCAR trick of blocking off part of the cooler.
2) We're making the switch to Amsoil Mercon V.
3) J-Mod and Valve body rebuild with Eric's special touches.

That's the plan for now, I'll post some pics when it's all in, and report back after the race.

Thank you to all of you for your input, and help.
Posted by: Lance01

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/11/21 02:36 PM

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the deep aluminum LPW transmission pan that has cooling fins and allows it to hold 2 additional quarts of oil and has an oil drain plug.

In older threads it was recommended by 88grandmarq because of the pegs inside of the pan that allow it to support the transmission filter. I'm getting one in the next week or so and it would be interesting to see the temperature difference by switching to this pan.

https://www.jegs.com/i/LPW/619/501-AOD/10002/-1

https://www.lpwracing.com/Trans_Pans/Deep_Transmission_Pans.html
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/11/21 03:33 PM

Originally Posted By Lance01
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the deep aluminum LPW transmission pan that has cooling fins and allows it to hold 2 additional quarts of oil and has an oil drain plug.

In older threads it was recommended by 88grandmarq because of the pegs inside of the pan that allow it to support the transmission filter. I'm getting one in the next week or so and it would be interesting to see the temperature difference by switching to this pan.

https://www.jegs.com/i/LPW/619/501-AOD/10002/-1

https://www.lpwracing.com/Trans_Pans/Deep_Transmission_Pans.html




Great suggestion. The only concern we have about that pan is it hangs below the cross member. We're okay now at stock height, but we will soon be MUCH lower, and I feel like there is a good chance we would snag that on the curbing at the track.
Posted by: Old_Guy_Stu

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/12/21 07:23 AM

I don't know how much benefit you'd get from a deep pan in a 24-hour race. The fluid will come up to temp slower because there's more of it, which would help for the first hour or so. But adding a big enough cooler also increases fluid capacity and will throw off a lot more heat than a finned pan.
Posted by: 88grandmarq

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/12/21 05:57 PM

Originally Posted By Lance01
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the deep aluminum LPW transmission pan that has cooling fins and allows it to hold 2 additional quarts of oil and has an oil drain plug.

In older threads it was recommended by 88grandmarq because of the pegs inside of the pan that allow it to support the transmission filter. I'm getting one in the next week or so and it would be interesting to see the temperature difference by switching to this pan.

https://www.jegs.com/i/LPW/619/501-AOD/10002/-1

https://www.lpwracing.com/Trans_Pans/Deep_Transmission_Pans.html




I did mention it .. read point 3 in my original reply.
Posted by: CrystalPistol

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/12/21 07:11 PM

Or one could plumb a nice aluminum or other durable gallon or so tank in line kind of like those Moon tanks, in up high, out down low.

Buddy had a '67 Mustang with a 427TP he raced, drove on the street some, did that with the coolant, the increased volume helped he said.
Posted by: Lance01

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/14/21 10:23 AM

Does anyone know how to keep a magnet inside a aluminum transmission pan without glue/jb weld? Will a magnetic drain plug be sufficient?
Posted by: RF_Overlord

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/14/21 02:02 PM

Assuming your transmission doesn't generate an abnormal amount of wear metals, and you do a drain & fill at reasonable intervals, the magnetic plug should be fine. If you're concerned, you could also use a Magnefine filter in the cooler line. Be sure to check the cooler line size...I *think* they're 5/16".
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/19/21 09:03 PM

Well the valve body got back to me today, and I have to say, it came in a very nice little package with new filter, O ring, and very detailed instructions. Could not be happier, everything went in smoothly. I have all my gears, and the transmission not only holds each gear much longer, but shifts much more quickly. Very impressed.

Here are a few photos of the upgrades, and changes.

Ever wonder how to ruin a Ford reusable pan gasket, run it at 240-250 for 14 hours.



Old valve body out, and ready to ship to 88GrandMarq.


Bye Bye old trans cooler....


Lots of room in there for the new oversized cooler.



Derale giant cooler....



We plummed it into the old hard lines, because they have a nice nipple on them.


Eric’s awesome instructions.


Okay I’m embarrassed to admit, I was so excited, and a little too focused to get a pic of the rebuilt valve body, but trust me, it was a thing of beauty. Packaged nicely, well organized box of parts, and clear instructions.

Do not hesitate to hit Eric up if you need this work done. I can’t emphasize enough how good his communication was, and the work is super clean.

Trans on a short drive, in light traffic warmed up to 170-172 and stayed there. Cooled to 165 at idle. This is probably too cool for everyday street use, but for our race car, it’s going to work out great.
Posted by: Old_Guy_Stu

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/21/21 07:36 AM

If you don't already have one, an air dam on the core support will jam extra air thru the radiators:



Similar to what came on the cars with the towing package. Easy, cheap, effective.

You also might want to space the trans cooler out from the radiator. Both will cool more effectively.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/21/21 11:34 AM

Originally Posted By Old_Guy_Stu
If you don't already have one, an air dam on the core support will jam extra air thru the radiators:



Similar to what came on the cars with the towing package. Easy, cheap, effective.

You also might want to space the trans cooler out from the radiator. Both will cool more effectively.


Great advice, we have the small plastic air dam, but an upgrade would certainly help.
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/23/21 09:25 PM

We hit 200+ at our track day with a medium sized cooler. I bought the one you linked and am going to plumb it in after the radiator. That will give me some data to see if its worth it or not to run it in the radiator.

When is your next race?
Posted by: Lance01

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/23/21 10:52 PM

7
Originally Posted By Traffic22


Trans on a short drive, in light traffic warmed up to 170-172 and stayed there. Cooled to 165 at idle. This is probably too cool for everyday street use, but for our race car, it’s going to work out great.


I have a 2004 police interceptor. For my particular year it has a transmission cooler that it also shares with the power steering system but it's independent from the A/C condenser.

In hard city stop and go my transmission fluid temperature is around 188 degrees fahrenheit. On the freeway the temperature drops to 165 degrees fahrenheit. At idle she holds at 172 degrees fahrenheit. These temperatures are recorded when the weather is approximately 54-56 degrees fahrenheit outside.

That said, I have one broken air dam that I need to fix and I will look into what the other poster said about creating an additional air dam and I still haven't installed a larger aluminum transmission pan that holds additional quarts.

I don't think there is too cold of fluid for a transmission unless you're living in places like Iceland or Alaska. If I can hit your numbers after what I intend to do I will be happy.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/24/21 06:03 PM

Originally Posted By hkerekes
We hit 200+ at our track day with a medium sized cooler. I bought the one you linked and am going to plumb it in after the radiator. That will give me some data to see if its worth it or not to run it in the radiator.

When is your next race?


Thunderhill last weekend in May. The track is located in Willows CA, which is notoriously hot. My only suggestion, other than the giant swamp cooler, is a switch to full synthetic fluid. It holds up a lot better, heats up slower, and cools faster.

We ran an average of 5-10 degrees cooler from day one to day 2 of our fist race, with just a partial fluid change. (It was blind luck, the local Napa only had Valvoline synthetic)

I’ve done a couple test runs since we got our Trans back together and I’m having a hard time getting it to normal operating temp (180-190) in street driving. It seems to want to run about 160-165. This makes me feel like we should be able to stay under 210 in our next race.)
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/24/21 11:26 PM

The trans guy advised dexron 3 mercon 1 as its thicker. I never thought about going synthetic. WE also are running a mustang v6 convertor, it supposedly is matched to the engine better. Id love to switch to the newer smaller convertor but thats a down the road project. Ive spent a lot of $ getting the trans and drivetrain essentially bulletproof.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/25/21 02:47 PM

Originally Posted By hkerekes
The trans guy advised dexron 3 mercon 1 as its thicker. I never thought about going synthetic. WE also are running a mustang v6 convertor, it supposedly is matched to the engine better. Id love to switch to the newer smaller convertor but thats a down the road project. Ive spent a lot of $ getting the trans and drivetrain essentially bulletproof.



Yep, we’re right there with you. The bulk of our money has been invested in reliability. In most cases we’ve replace broken, worn, or old parts with Motorcraft in an attempt to maintain OEM reliability.

We know it’s only a matter of time before the Trans, motor, or both give up. At that point we’ll have some decisions to make. (We’re leaning towards the idea of a forged bottom end, cams, and ported stock heads, along with long tubes.) No boost, no crazy compression, just smooth reliable 300-325 hp. That also makes it easier to rebuild the trans with more bulletproof components, when it’s time comes.

At this point we’re hoping our motor and trans hold on for a year or so. We’re slowly investing money in better suspension components, and we want to swap to a 3.55 locker.
Posted by: 2008interceptor

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/25/21 05:12 PM

A locker, are you going to be switching to drag racing? You may want to look into a gear style lsd as well for road courses. Just a thought as driving style can mitigate advantages and disadvantages of either.
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/25/21 09:52 PM

i thought about the 3.55 but ultimately decided against it. Since our power goals are 300 hp I went with 3.27

3.27 will get you 121 with three gears with 275/35/18 at 5200 rpm. Our plan is to not use OD at all. 3.55 only gets you 111 at 5200 which may force you into OD at some tracks Id say 5200 is a decent limit for fuel economy and reliablity. IF you need a little more mph then a bump of the rev limit is all you need. 5500 is 128 which is probably enough for a 300 hp 3100 lb car.( ours is probably close to that since 1996 is fairly light to begin with ) Worst case scenario you can just use OD and be fine.

If you plan on a 5 speed then a 3.55 or 3.73 may be beneficial.

I snagged a used Auburn road race LSD and it works fantastic. Its a spring type not a clutch based unit. Lucklily it was only $100 since its a 28 spline but will handle 300 hp all day long.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/27/21 06:16 PM

Originally Posted By 2008interceptor
A locker, are you going to be switching to drag racing? You may want to look into a gear style lsd as well for road courses. Just a thought as driving style can mitigate advantages and disadvantages of either.


Sorry, misspoke LSD, not locker.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 04/27/21 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By hkerekes
i thought about the 3.55 but ultimately decided against it. Since our power goals are 300 hp I went with 3.27

3.27 will get you 121 with three gears with 275/35/18 at 5200 rpm. Our plan is to not use OD at all. 3.55 only gets you 111 at 5200 which may force you into OD at some tracks Id say 5200 is a decent limit for fuel economy and reliablity. IF you need a little more mph then a bump of the rev limit is all you need. 5500 is 128 which is probably enough for a 300 hp 3100 lb car.( ours is probably close to that since 1996 is fairly light to begin with ) Worst case scenario you can just use OD and be fine.

If you plan on a 5 speed then a 3.55 or 3.73 may be beneficial.

I snagged a used Auburn road race LSD and it works fantastic. Its a spring type not a clutch based unit. Lucklily it was only $100 since its a 28 spline but will handle 300 hp all day long.


We actually did the same calculations. We rarely hit 111 (at least so far) but feel like the trade off for us is better power out of the turns. We also only run in the first 3 gears.

We’re running Thunderhill at the end of May, which is pretty much the fastest track we run. We’re still on 3.27, so this will give us a better idea. Either was a LSD is definitely in the future.

Thanks for the tip on the Auburn. They make great products and I would not hesitate to buy something made by them.
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 05/01/21 01:21 PM

We hit 109 at CMP with basically a stock crown vic with the NPI 4.6. VIR is also close and has a longer straight then CMP so thats what we based our calculations on. F
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 05/26/21 11:57 AM

That derale 8000 cooler that 88grandmarq linked will not cool the trans under hard use, we had it plumbed in the radiator and without and even added a parts store tube and fin. It still would struggle to keep it under 230.

Granted it was 94 degrees out but racing doesnt stop.

I called derale and went with their largest cooler/fan with a 180 thermostat. The 13870, its a 40 row cooler that is massive and was told in no uncertain terms that if it doesnt work you have problems that cant be fixed.


Even with our problems we managed a 2nd place and a 3rd place finish.
Posted by: Lance01

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 05/26/21 03:52 PM

For what's its worth, the other good transmission builder Darren who I believe use to post on this forum said he uses Mobil 1 fully synthetic ATF transmission fluid in his race builds.

He said when he tore down the 4r70w that used Mobil 1 the hard parts were better protected from the heat as they didn't have discolorations from the heat.


https://www.bcawebstore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=25
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 05/28/21 10:30 AM

Synthetic may help a little, but heat is heat.

I'm doing a complete fluid change and will switch to synthetic, in anticipation of no more cooling issues. Getting the trans out of the radiator should help with our engine temps. We ran with and without it plumbed and the coolant temps definitely rose and struggled to stay under 220 with the trans run in the radiator.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/03/21 12:25 PM

Well we’re back from Thunderhill and I can only describe the weekend as; challenging.

First, the temp was never below 97. (Fri, 97, Sat 99, Sunday 104.)
Second, we caught several driving penalties on Sat.
Third ,on Sunday our fan module blew out, causing us to hot wire the fan directly to the battery. This also caused problems, because we didn’t have a sufficient gauge wire. After melting the first set-up, we wrapped 4 wires together to split the load, which works well enough to limp to the finish line.

Worst of all, our Trans ran at 260+ with a high of 284. (If you didn’t know, the wrench light comes on about 275)

So, back to the drawing board.

The plan moving forward is to switch from the single Derale, to a 2 cooler set-up.
Cooler one will be a large stack-plate cooler, which is more efficient.
The second, if we can find room, will be remotely mounted, and have its own fan. (If we can’t find a good location for that, we’ll run a second stack plate next to the main cooler,)
We’re also switching to stainless lines, because they are supposed to be more resistant to heat.

I know some people here have gone with the LPW pan. We’re now strongly considering this option too. My understanding is it hangs kind of low. I’ve searched everywhere for a photo of one mounted under a CV, but can’t find one.

If anyone is running the LPW pan, I would really appreciate a photo.

Will keep you all posted, I know there is a patch to a race trans that runs under 230.
Posted by: Lance01

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/04/21 04:02 PM

Just putting it out there that it might be worth a shot to talk to someone over at Ford Racing. Those guys are smart and I'm sure someone over there might be willing to help.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/contact-us/
Posted by: Old_Guy_Stu

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/05/21 07:14 AM

I'm gonna guess here, and say that endurance racing with an automatic is something even the guys at Ford Racing don't have much experience with. 99% of race automatics are used in drag racing, where it's all over in 12 seconds.

Further guesswork, heat comes from slippage. You're running at or near full throttle all the time and the converter doesn't lock up in that situation. And the converter puts a lot of heat into the system. Maybe a toggle switch (or a tune?) can force lockup? Which may kill throttle response and acceleration, but would let the trans live.

Might be time to think about a manual swap.

As for pans, my Trick Flow pan holds one quart extra:

It's just an RCH lower than the crossmember, and still above the exhaust. You should be able to use a +2 qt pan without bottoming out, but I don't know how much it will really help.
Posted by: Lance01

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/05/21 10:01 AM

Yea, guys mostly use Fords for drag racing but Ford Racing does have experience in road racing. I can go back to 1993 where Ford racing produced the 1993 Cobra R. If you bought that car new I believe you were required to race it to some extent. The 1993 cobra R was a pure track car.

Basically all the mustang cobras were designed for track use with the 2000 and 2003/04 being the most desirable. Guys just take them to the drag strip as that's the American way of flexing muscle I suppose.

The 2020 Shelby gt500 which is at the top of the food chain now is an automatic. The 2020 shelby gt500 is actually a track car also even though it can rip a 10 sec quarter mile. If they can keep that transmission cool during track use (that has 750 ponies in front of it) our crown vics should be a cakewalk.


I get your point though about automatics. Maybe they know something we don't know. It's worth a shot to see what they say.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.roadand...utch-automatic/
Posted by: Lance01

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/05/21 10:30 AM

I failed to mention the OP could also hit up Saleen. They probably have more direct knowledge with endurance racing for more than anyone else come to think of it.

https://www.saleen.com/contact/

Back in the 90s the Saleen Mustangs were all the rage and they put out automatic Saleens as well.

To this day I still want a 1994 screaming yellow Saleen s-351R! I saw one in my life. I was on the 710 freeway in California and I thought I heard a flash thunderstorm or something. Looked to my left while I'm in my towtruck and a yellow Saleen s-351r flys by me in the fast lane. Man that supercharged pushrod engine was so loud and sounded so good!! Only thing close to that rush/sound is the new Hellcats that can sound real mean and nasty.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/06/21 02:43 AM

I want to thank everyone for their help and responses. My team and I do really appreciate all the help.

Since my post a few days ago, I’ve been talking with Eric (88GrandMarq) and Hans (hkerekes) quite a bit.

I need to take some measurements to see if we can make it fit, but the leading candidate is the Ford 6.0 Powerstroke diesel trans cooler. It is about 34”x17”x1.5”. In addition to being huge, it is stacked plate. From what I gather by my research, this is the most efficient design for a radiator.

We are also going to run the factory fan full time. After blowing out the module, it just makes more sense to wire it through a relay to a switch on the dash.

This is also presenting its own challenges, because the fan has to turn off with the kill switch. I’m a little afraid to pull that much amperage through the switch. We’re trying to figure out if we can pull from an alternate source. (Like some of the stray police wiring or something left over from when we gutted the car.) I won’t really know until I measure the amp draw at the switch currently.

I never thought about contacting Ford performance. That is an excellent idea, (Thanks Lance01) I’ve contacted them in the past and they are great.

And thank you Old_guy_stu….I didn’t even realize Trick Flow made a pan. Might be a good upgrade over the Dorman, but less likely to be an issue than the LPW.

The semi-permanent locking of the torque converter is actually something Eric and I discussed. It would require some custom tuning to get there, but it is doable. (Since we’re going to do a 3.55 and LSD soon, the lock up may be on the table too) Another team at last weeks race have an older CV, mid-late 90’s I believe, and they run locked in 2, 3, 4.

It’s a work in progress for sure. There are no bad ideas at this point, I, open to any and all suggestions.
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/06/21 09:58 PM

If you want to wait and see if the derale cooler i bought works, you can use that as a data point for your setup.


We have a race on july 17th at charlotte motorspeedway ROVAL. 3 hour friday night, 4 hour saturday, and a 10 hour on sunday. Its going to be hot ( probably 95+) and will definitely be put to the test.
As we make the car quicker, i have a feeling that anything infront of the radiator is going to be an issue for engine cooling.

Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/08/21 01:42 AM

Originally Posted By hkerekes
If you want to wait and see if the derale cooler i bought works, you can use that as a data point for your setup.


We have a race on july 17th at charlotte motorspeedway ROVAL. 3 hour friday night, 4 hour saturday, and a 10 hour on sunday. Its going to be hot ( probably 95+) and will definitely be put to the test.
As we make the car quicker, i have a feeling that anything infront of the radiator is going to be an issue for engine cooling.



Thanks for the offer. I’ll text you after the race to see how it goes. Derale was very helpful. They recommended the 40 row, and said using the factory fan to pull was a good set-up.

The Ford 31 row 6.0 diesel trans cooler was a no go. Way too many things in the way. Even with some creative cutting, too much needed support structure is in the way.

I have two cardboard templates (little arts and crafts projects) for both the Ford 26 row stacked plate, which is the replacement for the 31 row. It’s 25x14x1.5. That may actually slide right in front of the radiator perfectly. It’s also 12” wider than the Derale.

According to the 6.0 and 7.3 diesel guys, it’s equally efficient as compared to the 31 row.

It’s a tough decision but we’ll see what things look like after checking fitment with the templates.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the outer and inner diameter of the trans lines?

I need to order some SS line and want to get the correct size.
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/08/21 07:25 PM

a 3/8 rubber hose fits over the factory hard lines.

IF it was me...... i would and am going to switch everything over to AN lines once we verify our new setup works and we wont ever have to worry about leaks or hose clamps. If you go with the ford cooler you can run an lines up to it and have a AN to hose barb fitting with a really short rubber line to the cooler.

SS line probably will be just as expensive as AN lines and is going to be a pain to bend. 6 AN is fairly cheap and is bendy.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/10/21 01:54 PM

Originally Posted By hkerekes
a 3/8 rubber hose fits over the factory hard lines.

IF it was me...... i would and am going to switch everything over to AN lines once we verify our new setup works and we wont ever have to worry about leaks or hose clamps. If you go with the ford cooler you can run an lines up to it and have a AN to hose barb fitting with a really short rubber line to the cooler.

SS line probably will be just as expensive as AN lines and is going to be a pain to bend. 6 AN is fairly cheap and is bendy.


Thanks. Yes I meant braided SS lines, no hard lines. 3/8" info is helpful thanks.
Posted by: Old_Guy_Stu

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/10/21 02:07 PM

If it was me, I'd ditch the factory hard lines, go with -6 hose all the way. You're gonna beat that car for 24 hours and don't want a cooler line to crack. The hose is the least expensive part of AN lines anyway, and if you run it all the way you eliminate fittings and adapters as potential failure points.

Just for God's sake don't jam NPT fittings in the trans. They're inverted flare, most likely 5/8-18 thread.
Posted by: 2011LX

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/10/21 02:19 PM

Cracking a tube?

Cooler pressure does not equal line pressure. Pressure is very low in the cooler circuit. I can't imagine how a steel cooler line could crack.

That said, regular steel tube should be more than enough.
Posted by: Old_Guy_Stu

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/10/21 09:10 PM

Not so hard to imagine: Say you transitioned from steel line to AN using a tube adapter just after the elbow at the trans. That steel line is now supporting the AN line, unless you tie it up somewhere. Then beat on it around a track for 24 hours, hopping curbs, etc. It may not fail at all, but why take the chance? If you're gonna go AN, do it all the way.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/13/21 12:50 AM

I like the idea of running AN line the entire way. The fewer the connections the better.

Interestingly, I’ve been doing quite a bit of research on heat transfer, heat resistant materials, and how to dissipate heat.

I’ve actually decided to go with Silicone line for now. Pegasus Racing Supply sells a 3/8” 250 psi, oil resistant silicone hose by the foot. It is rated to 300 degrees.

We’re going to give it a try.

The game plan seems to change regularly when better information comes along, but as of now:

1) Fan has been wired through a 50 AMP relay, and thanks to some left over cop wiring, is on a circuit protected by a 50 amp fuse in the BJB. (It’s actually pretty cool to hear the fan come on full blast with the flip of a switch.)
2) Derale 40 row stacked plate cooler.
3) silicone lines running from the hard lines under the engine to the cooler, with no thermostat. (Maybe ditch the hard lines altogether down the road.)
4) front grill, and headlights are out to allow more air through the front.
5) I’m going to try and fabricate a better air deflector to push more air to the radiator area. (This was a suggestion in an earlier post and a really good one.)
6) found an old post that said pulling the rubber seal at the top of the hood helps high pressure air at the base of the windshield get pushed under the hood. Can’t hurt, we’ll try it.
7) We’re going to cut away a lot of the under hood support to drop weight, when we do that, we’ll chop a vent hole in the hood, and put some generic grill material in there. We’ll likely mimic the pattern used by Ford for the optional cop heat escape hood vent.
8) 100% synthetic trans fluid.

If all this doesn’t work, the only real option left is remotely located coolers with an attached fan.

Once it’s all in, I hope to get some open track time to test it all out.

Thank you everyone for all the suggestions and help, especially 88GrandMarq. (He’s answered way more questions, and given way more advice than I deserve, and he’s been friendly, patient and cool the entire time.)
Posted by: Lance01

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/15/21 09:06 AM

Traffic, they make hood vents for the hoods of these cars that look pretty cool. I believe they're called Runcool hood louvers.
Posted by: AlleyG

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/15/21 09:57 AM

Not crazy about #3, silicone hose. I would stick with rubber hose approved for transmission fluid.

Al
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/18/21 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By AlleyG
Not crazy about #3, silicone hose. I would stick with rubber hose approved for transmission fluid.

Al


I made sure to select a hose that was safe with trans fluid. This is actually what we are going with. It supposed to dissipate heat better than basic runner hose.

We’ll see….

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3290
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 06/18/21 06:37 PM

Originally Posted By Lance01
Traffic, they make hood vents for the hoods of these cars that look pretty cool. I believe they're called Runcool hood louvers.


I’ve actually seen those before. Thanks for the reminder, I’ll check them out again.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/01/21 10:31 PM

A lot of this info is posted in my build thread, but I know a few people have been following this thread only.

Finally received my Derale stacked plate cooler. Very nicely built, and quite large compared to the old Trans cooler I thought was “big.”

Only real problem I ran into was having no place to mount the OEM PS cooler. Instead of cutting up the OEM cooler and bracket, I set it aside for now. I repurposed the old trans cooler as our new PS cooler,

Fab work is not my strong area, but everything is cleanly mounted, there is a small space between the radiator and Tranny cooler, and the PS cooler does not block the Tranny cooler.

Old set up out.


The new larger cooler.




Mounted up, with the PS cooler nest to it, and tucked out of the way.






I still need to plumb everything. I thought the tranny hard lines were 3/8, but they’re actually 1/4. I still want to use 3/8,so I’ll just buy a small section of 1/4, and transition the hose.

I’ll post more photos when it’s all plumbed up.
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/05/21 09:39 AM

Looks good, we did the same and made our old trans cooler into the PS cooler.

We have the new derale cooler mounted underneath the car but cant get any testing before our Charlotte motor speedway roval race. So we did the sensible thing and left the other two coolers and now we have 3. We did take it out of teh radiator since we are pushing the motor harder and dont want overheating issues.

if it cools fine then we will eliminate the smaller cooler and then keep going until there is 1 or all three still left. The temps have been fairly mild at low 90s but it very well could be 100 ish so who knows.
Posted by: Tenevic_P71

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/05/21 04:59 PM

Very interesting thread. That is one beefy cooler! Curious what the temps will be like now.
You mentioned your car was formerly a San Juoquin county "dog car". How was the interior when you purchased it? Did you just strip it all out for weight reduction? I don't think I've ever seen a surplus k9 unit that wasn't totally disgusting.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/11/21 12:26 PM

Originally Posted By Tenevic_P71
Very interesting thread. That is one beefy cooler! Curious what the temps will be like now.
You mentioned your car was formerly a San Juoquin county "dog car". How was the interior when you purchased it? Did you just strip it all out for weight reduction? I don't think I've ever seen a surplus k9 unit that wasn't totally disgusting.


It was very smelly, and full of dog hair. That is part of the reason we got it so cheap at auction. Most auction cars in this area go for $1500-2500 depending on mileage and overall condition.

Our car was only $950, partly because it was a dog car, and partly because the auction house couldn’t get the monitors to reset so it wouldn’t pass smog. I was able to get the monitors to reset and smog it within a week of picking it up.

The dog smell is gone, because the interior is gone, but what’s funny is we still occasionally have a random chunk of dog hair appear from out of nowhere.

If I was buying one of these cars to drive every day, or as a project, I’d probably think twice about bidding on a dog car.
Posted by: 2008interceptor

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/12/21 08:30 PM

One issue witn a k9 car would be it may not have the rear seat. They normally don't have carpet outside of someone putting a removeable pad down. How the car smells or cleaned in general would depend on the officer and department.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/15/21 10:59 PM

Originally Posted By 2008interceptor
One issue witn a k9 car would be it may not have the rear seat. They normally don't have carpet outside of someone putting a removeable pad down. How the car smells or cleaned in general would depend on the officer and department.


I agree. But back seats are easy to find, the big issue with dog cars is where all the hair ends up. I found hair under the floor liner, stuck in the headliner, and in every crack and crevice. There was even hair in the H-Vac system.

Even if the car was cleaned regularly, and thoroughly, I’m not sure you could get all the hair and smell out.

If the car was cheap enough and in good mechanical shape, I’d say go for it, but expect to remove and clean/replace most of the interior. (Which actually isn’t hard once you’ve done it.) Including the dash.
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/19/21 06:57 PM

We just finished racing at the Charlotte Motor Speedway Roval. I have the same cooler as traffic but with the 180 degree thermostat and fan. We still have our medium and small trans coolers mounted infront of the radiator.

Our temps were 200 - 210 consistently. I was hoping for under 200 but under 210 isnt terrible. Previously with the two smaller coolers we struggled to keep temps under 230 and had to consistently back off of it. That cooler dropped our temps atleast 30 to 40 degrees. So in short it works.

I did find out that we are exceeding our radiators cooling potential so i ordered a griffin radiator with a trans cooler. Im hoping to eliminate one or two of the smaller coolers and lower our coolant temps as well. They were consistently 210 to 220 degrees with temps raising to 230 if you had some traffic at speed.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/19/21 10:42 PM

Originally Posted By hkerekes
We just finished racing at the Charlotte Motor Speedway Roval. I have the same cooler as traffic but with the 180 degree thermostat and fan. We still have our medium and small trans coolers mounted infront of the radiator.

Our temps were 200 - 210 consistently. I was hoping for under 200 but under 210 isnt terrible. Previously with the two smaller coolers we struggled to keep temps under 230 and had to consistently back off of it. That cooler dropped our temps atleast 30 to 40 degrees. So in short it works.

I did find out that we are exceeding our radiators cooling potential so i ordered a griffin radiator with a trans cooler. Im hoping to eliminate one or two of the smaller coolers and lower our coolant temps as well. They were consistently 210 to 220 degrees with temps raising to 230 if you had some traffic at speed.



That’s awesome, great to hear the bigger cooler kept your temps 30-40 lower. We’re not remote mounted like you, but we will have a fan pulling the whole time.

Interesting to hear your engine temps went up. What was the ambient during your race? The one thing we’ve had good luck with is keeping the engine cool. Even on a 100 degree day, we consistently ran 195 even in slower traffic.

Very happy to hear the trans cooler is going to give us a chance.

If you’re not doing so, 100% synthetic ATF should help top.
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/20/21 09:46 AM

Originally Posted By Traffic22


That’s awesome, great to hear the bigger cooler kept your temps 30-40 lower. We’re not remote mounted like you, but we will have a fan pulling the whole time.

Interesting to hear your engine temps went up. What was the ambient during your race? The one thing we’ve had good luck with is keeping the engine cool. Even on a 100 degree day, we consistently ran 195 even in slower traffic.

Very happy to hear the trans cooler is going to give us a chance.

If you’re not doing so, 100% synthetic ATF should help top.


We have a 1996 radiator, which is probably undersized for the PI engine. Also have full synthetic Driven ATF. It was 90 ish degrees out but we are pushing the car a bit. It ate a set of front race brake pads in 15 hours. We were 120 + mph on the bank and straights. It didnt get much of a break honestly the infield is tight but had a lot of turns under power. We ran a 1:49 which isnt slow and was on pace with some faster cars.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/20/21 09:58 AM

Originally Posted By hkerekes
Originally Posted By Traffic22


That’s awesome, great to hear the bigger cooler kept your temps 30-40 lower. We’re not remote mounted like you, but we will have a fan pulling the whole time.

Interesting to hear your engine temps went up. What was the ambient during your race? The one thing we’ve had good luck with is keeping the engine cool. Even on a 100 degree day, we consistently ran 195 even in slower traffic.

Very happy to hear the trans cooler is going to give us a chance.

If you’re not doing so, 100% synthetic ATF should help top.


We have a 1996 radiator, which is probably undersized for the PI engine. Also have full synthetic Driven ATF. It was 90 ish degrees out but we are pushing the car a bit. It ate a set of front race brake pads in 15 hours. We were 120 + mph on the bank and straights. It didnt get much of a break honestly the infield is tight but had a lot of turns under power. We ran a 1:49 which isnt slow and was on pace with some faster cars.


Good to hear the tranny did well in hot air, under tough conditions. We don’t run our next race till December at Sonoma, which is typically fairly cool. I think the first real test of our cooler won’t be till April 2022. Regardless, happy to have the bigger cooler in.
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/20/21 06:42 PM

The griffin radiator is the next piece to the trans cooling puzzle. It was less money than i thought for a 33" wide, 19" tall, 3" thick radiator with the correct hose routing and trans cooler in the endtank.

Water is much more effective at removing heat than air. Im really hoping the radiator and the one derale cooler will be enough. That way i can move the power steering cooler back infront of the radiator. We also picked up an oil cooler with the junkyard PI motor. Our oil temps were like 230 ish i think so the cooler should drop them a little bit.
Posted by: Fopeano

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/21/21 09:27 PM

I'm loving this thread!

Don't forget this approach: https://globaltransmissionparts.com/4r70...9xoC2kEQAvD_BwE
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/22/21 11:53 AM

Originally Posted By Fopeano
I'm loving this thread!

Don't forget this approach: https://globaltransmissionparts.com/4r70...9xoC2kEQAvD_BwE


Is that a thermostat bypass? If so, thanks for the suggestion but both hherkes and I have removed the thermostat and are running the cooler full time.

If it does something different, please explain because I’m open to any suggestions.

Thanks,

Chuck
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/22/21 07:59 PM

I believe that is what that is. Mine definetly doesnt have it in it anymore, it takes it forever to heat up unless you start beating on it.

The griffin radiator/transcooler will be in before our next race in a month. Im really hoping that the derale cooler and the radiator will be enough. That should be a good setup if you choose to go that route. The radiator was only $350. 33x19x3 so its not exactly small and allegedly will support 900+ hp

The bottom radiator hose is 1 3/4 so an adapter will be required, and the top vent line works off the cap, so you can just take the spring off the cap and essentially make it work just like the factory setup.
I will post pics when its done.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/27/21 12:50 PM

Originally Posted By hkerekes
I believe that is what that is. Mine definetly doesnt have it in it anymore, it takes it forever to heat up unless you start beating on it.

The griffin radiator/transcooler will be in before our next race in a month. Im really hoping that the derale cooler and the radiator will be enough. That should be a good setup if you choose to go that route. The radiator was only $350. 33x19x3 so its not exactly small and allegedly will support 900+ hp

The bottom radiator hose is 1 3/4 so an adapter will be required, and the top vent line works off the cap, so you can just take the spring off the cap and essentially make it work just like the factory setup.
I will post pics when its done.


That’s awesome, can’t wait to see it.
Posted by: hkerekes

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/28/21 09:21 PM

The radiator, a 24g fuel cell, and 6 point belts are going to be our next race upgrades. We only have 3.5 weeks left and that goes by quick. There is a small chance the 6 piston wilwood setup will be done but thats really doubtful. I am trying to partner with someone to sell the kit if it works out as a budget setup.

The stock tank is really hindering us and it has definitely cost us a first place finish. ( which we would have won $470 in tires with). The radiator was also holding us back, we had to keep backing off of it. The seat belts are just a quality of life upgrade, as i [censored] despise our 5 point latch belts. They dont adjust well, are a pain in the balls to latch, and the 5 point setup sucks. You also cant really belt yourself into the car with a neck restraint on. Camlock style belts are much better in that regard. A $100 gift certificate to lifeline sealed the deal for me. Granted they were still $350 with the discount but you get what you pay for.
Posted by: Traffic22

Re: Cooling The Transmission Hard Use - 07/29/21 07:51 PM

Originally Posted By hkerekes
The radiator, a 24g fuel cell, and 6 point belts are going to be our next race upgrades. We only have 3.5 weeks left and that goes by quick. There is a small chance the 6 piston wilwood setup will be done but thats really doubtful. I am trying to partner with someone to sell the kit if it works out as a budget setup.

The stock tank is really hindering us and it has definitely cost us a first place finish. ( which we would have won $470 in tires with). The radiator was also holding us back, we had to keep backing off of it. The seat belts are just a quality of life upgrade, as i [censored] despise our 5 point latch belts. They dont adjust well, are a pain in the balls to latch, and the 5 point setup sucks. You also cant really belt yourself into the car with a neck restraint on. Camlock style belts are much better in that regard. A $100 gift certificate to lifeline sealed the deal for me. Granted they were still $350 with the discount but you get what you pay for.


We ditched our latch style belts before our first race. Bough them, put them in the car, practiced with them, immediately removed them. The cam lock style are so much better, you won’t regret the upgrade.

I’ll be interested to see how your fuel cell upgrade goes. We’ve considered it, because the 6 extra gallons of fuel and faster fill would be nice.