PCM/CHIP--90MM MAF - New Comp?

Posted by: Rider90

PCM/CHIP--90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/28/02 04:36 PM

If someone was to put a 80MM or 90MM MAF from a Lightning onto a P71 would they need a new computer? Or can they disconnect the battery for 10 minutes or so until the old one resets?...I say that because I saw it in another post awhile back...share your knowledge

AIR INLET--
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/28/02 04:43 PM

you will need a chip to make it work efficiently or you can damage your engine in the long term.
Posted by: Max

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/28/02 04:59 PM

I second that. You will need to have to chip it to make it work. Contact Dennis Reinhart of Reinhart automotive, he'll hook you up.
Posted by: Big_Bad_Joe

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/28/02 08:17 PM

an 80MM is all you would use and yes you do need a chip calibrated for it or a custom reflash of your computer if you can hook up with THE tuner ...

in any event dont install it without the chip!
Posted by: Floored_Ford

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/28/02 08:49 PM

I have a 90MM maf on my car and a chip it works grrrreat. tuned by the man.
Posted by: metroplex

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/28/02 09:00 PM

I concur.

80mm MAF + chip is the way to go...

90mm MAF + chip is also an option - I contemplated this route when the 80mm MAF's were sold out and only 90mm lightning MAFs were available.
Posted by: Rider90

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/28/02 09:15 PM

Thanks for all of your help! But also does disconnecting a terminal on the battery really reset the computer?
Posted by: metroplex

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/28/02 10:20 PM

Yep.

Pulling the battery lets the PCM lose its memory but not its programming. It just has to relearn how to idle - its in the owner's manual.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/28/02 10:58 PM

Question:

When bigger MAF is installed and PCM is not programmed, does the car runs lean or reach? Why would it hurt in the long run? (excluding the fact that without programming your MAF mod isn't complete)
Posted by: JohnE

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/29/02 07:20 AM

A 90mm MAF is not a good idea for NA guys. You will never have enough air going through one to use the upper half of its flow range. There are a fixed number of transfer function points in the computer, no matter which MAF you use. Basically the readings would not be as accurate and the computer would not give optimum performance. It is crucial for the computer to know exactly how much air enters the engine.

And yes, if you change the MAF, the computer needs to be updated (chip or swap).
Posted by: metroplex

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/29/02 09:29 AM

The Man said that the Lightning 80mm MAF doesn't have the right resolution for our N/A 4.6's - going with the truck 5.4L 80mm MAF (n/A) is the best way to go.

Going with a larger MAF w/o programming will result in the car running lean.
Posted by: Big_Bad_Joe

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/31/02 09:51 AM

I agree with JOhnE on this one

if you read past posts you will pick up on a lot on tuning and sensors.. look for the problems people post... that is also informative

Posted by: Mark_Bench

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/31/02 06:05 PM

Why not just go with a pro-M calibrated for a Vic? that way no chip needed, just order it for the correct year, injectors, and filter type. you can do a 70mm, or a 87 I assume possiblys a 95mm if you felt you needed it
Posted by: Turbo331

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/31/02 06:48 PM

I second the Pro-M option.

Plus, to use a mass air from a lightning you would have to run 42 lb injectors. Or SOMEHOW have it recalibrated for your size injectors. Also, even if you ran 42 lb injectors it would be calibrated for a supercharged application. (assuming it is from a supercharged lightning)

Unless you're putting a charger on your ride it will affect the ride quality.

Go Pro-M. And by the way, the best mass air going from Pro-m is a Univer. It can be calibrated for draw through or blow through (for supercharger or turbo application). And is not affected by air turbulence or path through the mass air. Other mass air units have a single sampling tube. If the air current is directed more to the opposite side of the mass air it will not output the correct voltage for the amount of air you actually have. Thus, will run lean. Not enough gas for the air you have. The Univer has 7 (I believe) sampling holes spread around the circumference or the mass air. It will not care where the air is coming from. This is very helpful when running cold air kits etc...
Posted by: P71_Interceptor

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/31/02 08:23 PM

In reply to:

Why not just go with a pro-M calibrated for a Vic? that way no chip needed, just order it for the correct year, injectors, and filter type. you can do a 70mm, or a 87 I assume possiblys a 95mm if you felt you needed it




Ok, Ok,....... I'll just go ahead and say it.....

There is NO SECONDS when it comes to Calibrating for MAFs and Chips when it comes to "THE MAN" and Dennis. Also known as Inject Tech Chip.

You "Newbies" are looking at reinventing the wheel with the Pro-M crap. It's been done with sh1tty results by those that have done it.

Do whatever you wish, but the tried and true methods for the 4.6L engine is "THE MAN" and Dennis.

Someone else can explain "THE MAN's" thourough knowledge and expertise to the new guys...
Posted by: Rider90

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/31/02 08:28 PM

I suppose I would be a newbie, and since I joined I assumed The Man WAS Dennis...but I guess not...so anyone else care to explain to us newcomers?
Posted by: P71_Interceptor

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 12/31/02 08:41 PM

In reply to:

I suppose I would be a newbie, and since I joined I assumed The Man WAS Dennis...but I guess not...so anyone else care to explain to us newcomers?




Sure. I didn't mean to be rude BTW to call ya'll Newbies like that. It's just that the Pro-M MAF crap has been rehashed TO DEATH with crappy results by those the tried it.

"THE MAN"(His name is NOT mentioned on this forum per HIS personal request) is basically the 4.6L engine Tech GOD (if you will). He's a former FORD engineer that works for Jack Roush Racing.

"THE MAN"/Dennis have done countless numbers of Chip Calibrations on Moduler engine equipped Fords. They also have spent hundreds of hours on Dynos with these vehicles as well.

"THE MAN" knows "SHIZOT" about programming for these vehilces that other Chip Cookie Cutter companies could only dream of. Just let me say...."There's more to calibrating chips than tuning Spark/Fuel tables.

I'm SURE I forgot to mention something about them, but I'm sure the viewers here will chime in.

Also, I think it's safe to say that everyone that has a Chip from Dennis and "THE MAN" are EXTREMELY pleases with their product (myself included) !!
Posted by: Mark_Bench

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 01/01/03 02:54 PM

Personally I have been working with.selling and using Pro-M products for at least 5 years, and have never had an issue with it in any way, I am not trying to start a fight but just because I have not been on Crownvic.net for a long time does not make me a "newbie" I have been in the ford performance business for awhile now, thanks..... I stand by my support of the Pro-M products, been ruinning it in everything from Mustangs to trucks(crownvic included) without an issue...
Posted by: JohnG

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 01/01/03 02:59 PM

This is simple, ProM or not that is....

ProM LIES to the EEC, that's their method of "tuning". The MAF tells the EEC the airflow is "x" to get the AFR "correct", even though the airflow is REALLY NOT "x", but "z". That causes the EEC to INCORRECTLY calculate LOAD, therefore it will use the WRONG look-up tables (for "z", the REAL load).

End of story.
Posted by: Rider90

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 01/01/03 03:12 PM

Next on the People's Court.
Posted by: Turbo331

Re: 90MM MAF - New Comp? - 01/03/03 10:36 AM

P71 Interceptor, no offense taken by the newbie comment. It DOES suprise me though how often people break out the newbie card just because someones post counter says less than a certain number.


But as for the Pro-M just manipulating stock signals to trick the stock computer, what do you think a chip does?????????

Unless you run a stand alone computer like the EPEC (?sp) or DFI, TEC3, etc.. You are still just manipulating the signals to get the results you want.

UNLESS: you do what Dennis and the MAN (J#%!...) are working on (or maybe have completed by now, I dont know). Actually flashing the stock computer with their own changes. Instead of using Diablo Sport chips and putting their progs there. I agree, Dennis is one of "the Men" in these type cars from what I am reading. I live in the same town as him and actually watched him installing a supercharger on one of his Lincolns. I was getting gears installed in my mustang at his shop one night late and he was working after hours. I do not know him other than that night. But do know a number of people that do know him.


But I am the newbie and honestly dont know a whole lot about CV's and 4.6's. Thats why I am here. To learn...! Thanks for your help.