All the cool kids are doing it....

Posted by: Captain_Slow

All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/10/14 10:03 PM

So, I feel reasonably confidant posting this now that I've gotten the exhaust issues more or less sorted out.

I've been talking about doing a 6 speed swap for ages now, pestering quite a few people with questions, etc. Finally going ahead with it.

A few weeks ago I picked up this on corral.net:



After seeing some of the difficult people were running into with the t56 magnum, and the cost, I figured I'd probably be ahead to go with a regular t56. It's already got the 26 spline input shaft upgrade, and it's currently at Libertys Gears in Taylor, MI getting rebuilt with new synchros/bearings and a few other minor upgrades.


Next up, I managed to score a pretty sweet deal on this:


Twin disc clutch for a newer GT500, completely unused smile After doing some digging on svtperformance, it looks like it'll fit and work with the cable clutch setup.

I also ordered an MGW shifter, which I probably would've done anyway, but had to since, as you can see, the transmission didn't come with a shifter.

More updates should be coming soon, I'm planning on putting the pedals in this weekend, along with maybe drilling out the hole for the firewall adjuster in the next few weeks. The trans got dropped off last Wednesday, so I'm hoping it should be done in the next 1-3 weeks (liberty had a pretty substantial backup running)
Posted by: abyrnes81

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/10/14 10:09 PM

Outstanding! slug
Posted by: CNGInterceptor

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/10/14 10:22 PM

Very nice!

Now that you've got the transmission - don't hesitate to text or call.
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/10/14 10:40 PM

Thank you both! I'm sure I'll have quite a few questions for both of you soon.

Before I dig too far into it I need to do a (hopefully fairly quick) suspension refresh on the bimmer, but with a bit of luck that'll be done next week.
Posted by: abyrnes81

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/10/14 11:02 PM

I think you made the right decision with the T56 instead of the Magnum. In hindsight, I should have done what you are doing. It would have saved me some aggravation and a good amount of time.
Posted by: CNGInterceptor

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/10/14 11:08 PM

I don't have the Magnum either, but it came with my engine.

I added the 26-spline input shaft, a stainless steel throwout bearing retainer sleeve, and Ford Racing throwout bearing and pilot bearing.

I wanted to use the MGW shifter too - but I'm a sucker for anything Hurst related and went that route.
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/10/14 11:35 PM

Originally Posted By: abyrnes81
I think you made the right decision with the T56 instead of the Magnum. In hindsight, I should have done what you are doing. It would have saved me some aggravation and a good amount of time.


Your experience was, I think, the tipping point for me actually, although I'd been reading about a ton of other little issues people were having.

As far as the shifter goes, I'd seen a LOT of folks recommending the MGW over everything, and I'd driven a friend's C5 z06 with a hurst shifter, it was a tad short for my taste, so I figured I'd take a chance.
Posted by: CNGInterceptor

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/11/14 07:30 AM

My friend used an MGW in his T56 swapped '99 GT, and now in his '13 Boss 302 - you won't be disappointed!
Posted by: NGreen0807

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/11/14 03:35 PM

What's done to the car performance wise? Thats going to be way too much clutch.
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/11/14 03:47 PM

For now, it definitely is a bit much cutch, to say the least. I'm thinking/hoping the fact that it's OE spec clutch and a twin disc should keep it fairly driveable, even though the torque rating is WAY over what the car currently puts out. As opposed to, say, going with a spec stage 3 that'd have a massive pedal effort and be super grabby.

Car is currently just basic bolt ons, soon (hopefully next year), will see an Eaton swapped built 4v going into the car, at which point I don't think it'll be too excessive. Hoping to be at 500-550whp then.
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/11/14 06:25 PM

welcome to the club laugh
Posted by: SVT40

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/11/14 10:53 PM

Just for the record, these threads are *killing* me.

My CV is the only vehicle I own with an automagic in it. I even went and looked at 5sp today with under 20k on it. I'm dying a bit right here considering spending a couple and a half grand on a conversion <sigh> on a car I never thought I'd keep.
Posted by: kurt

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/12/14 08:18 AM

Do it. you will no regret it.
Posted by: Ezbok58a

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/12/14 03:12 PM

Are you going hydraulic clutch? If you can I say go hydraulic, it makes it nearly effortless.
Posted by: BH1976

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/19/14 08:24 PM

Dang it you guys. Dont make me cut up my perfectly good Sport!

Pier knows I have talking about it for a few years. Maybe I should just do it.
Let's see. I have the vacation time and access to a 2.5 car garage.
Posted by: kurt

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/19/14 08:38 PM

Get out the cut off wheel.
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 04/19/14 10:03 PM

^^^This

Ezbok, I'm going with a cable clutch setup.

Spoke with Liberty's gears on thursday, they should be getting around to my transmission either next week or the week after. Pretty massive backlog, to say the least.

Also, there were some fairly worn suspension bits on the BMW, along with a bad tie rod that needs to be replaced badly, so I'm in the process of replacing a bunch of bushings in the rear suspension and basically replacing all of the front suspension components. I figured it made sense to have my daily driver in good shape before tearing the merc apart. With a bit of luck the suspension work should be done this week.
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 05/18/14 11:47 PM

Update: Pedals are mostly installed. Just need to wire up the brake light switch and remove some stuff that's hanging by the pcm blocking the clutch pedal. Pics soon.

Also, finally pulled both rear wheels and adjusted the ebrake so that it actually engages smile

Aaaand spoke to liberty last week. They're supposedly getting it torn down this week. Definitely taking their time on getting around to it.
Posted by: BlackVic_P71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 05/19/14 09:55 AM

Originally Posted By: Captain_Slow
Aaaand spoke to liberty last week. They're supposedly getting it torn down this week. Definitely taking their time on getting around to it.

That seems to be a trend around here, once a project is started and a part is handed off to "professionals" for some work, it gets tucked away in a corner and they will get to it "next week".
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 05/19/14 11:50 AM

Originally Posted By: BlackVic_P71
Originally Posted By: Captain_Slow
Aaaand spoke to liberty last week. They're supposedly getting it torn down this week. Definitely taking their time on getting around to it.

That seems to be a trend around here, once a project is started and a part is handed off to "professionals" for some work, it gets tucked away in a corner and they will get to it "next week".


This ^^^^^^^^^^^

dont give up man you are almost there.
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 05/23/14 10:30 AM

So, a few things (pictures will follow soonish).

I actually managed to get the factory brake pedal switch to install with these pedals, albiet rotated somewhat differently than stock. I know this wasn't supposed to be possible on older versions of pier's pedals, not sure if I got lucky or a design change there.

There are a few things I noticed though. One end of the clutch quadrant that doesn't have any spacers/etc on it seems to have a bit of side to side play in it, is this normal or am I missing a piece that should go in there?

Also, as far as the hole for the firewall adjuster goes, I'm a bit nervous. From what I've read it seems that the way to go about doing it is take a pen/whatever and rest it on the top/part of the quadrant where the cable hooks and see where it hits the firewall, and start the hole there, correct?

From that point, drill the hole out larger and then use a dremel to expand it out to the size of the firewall adjuster, and then make a plate/spacer/thingy to hold it at the proper angle relative to the quadrant. Somewhere in here I'll probably want to take the brake booster out of the way for clearance.

Am I missing anything/any feedback on this step would be appreciated.
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 05/23/14 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Captain_Slow


I actually managed to get the factory brake pedal switch to install with these pedals, albiet rotated somewhat differently than stock. I know this wasn't supposed to be possible on older versions of pier's pedals, not sure if I got lucky or a design change there.


I cant remember what version you have but i'm really curious to see that

Originally Posted By: Captain_Slow
There are a few things I noticed though. One end of the clutch quadrant that doesn't have any spacers/etc on it seems to have a bit of side to side play in it, is this normal or am I missing a piece that should go in there?


The play side to side will give you some room for adjustment with the cable.Once you are perfectly set and the right tension is on the cable it wount moove but you can always use washers if you really want to be exactly st the way you want but I never did.
Also, as far as the hole for the firewall adjuster goes, I'm a bit nervous. From what I've read it seems that the way to go about doing it is take a pen/whatever and rest it on the top/part of the quadrant where the cable hooks and see where it hits the firewall, and start the hole there, correct?

Originally Posted By: Captain_Slow
From that point, drill the hole out larger and then use a dremel to expand it out to the size of the firewall adjuster, and then make a plate/spacer/thingy to hold it at the proper angle relative to the quadrant. Somewhere in here I'll probably want to take the brake booster out of the way for clearance.


you pretty much got it

Originally Posted By: Captain_Slow
Am I missing anything/any feedback on this step would be appreciated.


fell free to pm me if yuo need more info.
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 05/26/14 11:34 PM

I'll work on getting a shot of the brake pedal switch, but that seems to be working.

The good news: I finally heard back from liberty, got a quote and whatnot, trans already torn apart, it should be rebuilt early next week and ready to go.

The bad news: Broken studs on front wheel spacers again, no damage to the rim though. This is the second time I've had it happen, on the same wheel actually, over the last two years. I think, however, I've got a decent long-term solution in the works.


Lastly but certainly not least, Rizzo was kind enough to spend a bit of his day off sweating/burning his hands under my car to remove this:


The dreaded 3rd starter bolt is now removed, and based on the horror stories I've heard about getting it out, I'm quite glad for the help. It should make pulling the started way easier when I go to drop the trans. Also, thanks to rizzo, I found out some of my wheel studs were f-ed up, way better way of finding that out than having a wheel come off.
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 05/27/14 06:17 AM

that infamous third bolt nono

gald you are a few step closer smile
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/07/14 12:49 AM

Update time.

Wednesday I spent getting the car moved to it's temporary new home where I'm working on it.




Prior to that on wednesday, I installed these, although the rears need to be tucked in a bit more:


Also on wednesday, I picked up the transmission from liberty:




I'm thinking rather than use a silver/aluminum colored paint, i'll probably just hit it up with a high temp clearcoat. I'm glad I asked them to glassbead the case, it looks awesome.

The trans already had a 26 spline input shaft. In addition to that liberty did the following: replaced 2nd gear, which had some chipped teeth, brand new 1-2 and 3-4 synchro assemblies, new blocker rings for all synchros, new bearings, bronze shift fork pads, billet shift keys, and they shot peened and polished some of the internals for smoother shifting. Can't wait to see how it drives.

Today, I finished moving my tools and the rest of the parts I have out to the garage I'm working out of, got my to-do list taped up on the wall, and drained the trans fluid. The fluid was surprisingly clean given the trans has ~180k on it, and the fluid has 45k or so. Also drained out the torque converter and started removing the wiper cowl.


More coming tomorrow.
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/07/14 09:29 AM

nice smile
Posted by: Bondfreak13

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/07/14 11:51 AM

So Shiny!
Posted by: STLVIC

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/07/14 02:27 PM

What kind of wheels are those? They look awesome!
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/07/14 04:03 PM

Thanks guys. The wheels are Esm-002r's. Similar design to our hpp rims.

Question for people with sw catbacks... Is it normal to need to disconnect the exhaust to remove the driveshaft?
Posted by: PoliceInterceptr

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/09/14 02:03 PM

I had a Hurst short shifter on my 6 speed in my '94 Trans Am. I really liked it. Also had a Stage III clutch. Came with both of these though, so I really couldn't compare them to stock. But I realy did like the feel fo that set up.
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/10/14 11:33 AM

Got this done last night...



Next up is stripping the interior and cutting holes for the shifter and firewall adjuster
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/10/14 08:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Captain_Slow
Got this done last night...



Next up is stripping the interior and cutting holes for the shifter and firewall adjuster


a classic picture
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/10/14 11:25 PM

Isn't it?

Got the car back on the ground today, stripped the seats and interior bits out. Next up is cutting the hole in the floor and firewall!!

Also had a decent talk with my buddy about how we're going to go about fabbing up the revised crossmember mount, should be interesting.
Posted by: Rainyp71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/11/14 07:57 AM

Add that to the flipped off autos collection :p
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/14/14 10:52 AM

Well, I'm pretty sure I've hit the point of no return now. Did this last night smile





Today I should be doing the hole for the firewall adjuster.

Also took the starter in for a rebuild earlier in the week, and ordered some parts I still needed (speedo recalibrator, control for the reverse lockout solenoid, wiring pigtails)
Posted by: BigMerc96

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/14/14 11:01 PM

mmmmm, floor vents. laugh

Nice progress!
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/15/14 09:38 PM

Originally Posted By: BigMerc96
mmmmm, floor vents. laugh

Nice progress!


Thanks man!
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/15/14 09:43 PM

So, while I missed STAP this weekend frown I did get some good progress made.

After drilling the pilot hole for the firewall adjuster I went out and picked up this:


Which I used to drill this:


The stepped drill bit was perfect for the firewall hole, just a tad bigger than the steeda adjuster in diameter, and makes cutting a hole in the sheet metal (with an uneven surface) really easy. Also, the hole seems to be pretty well lined up with the clutch quadrant, so that's definitely good news.

Also clearcoated the transmission, removed the flexplate, and replaced all of the O2 sensors.
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/15/14 10:36 PM

that is excelent work smile
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/17/14 01:43 PM

I've also been meaning to post this up for awhile. It needs some cleanup, but it's the step-by step todo list I've been working off of as I've gone through the swap. I figure it'll probably be helpful for others as well. Eventually I'll post the whole thing in proper format, or as a wiki even. Also, there's a method to the color coding

Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/26/14 11:37 PM

Update:
Wiring done, other than VSS/Speedcal stuff.
Firewall adapter is coming along, need to play a bit with the angle and weld it up.

Flywheel and clutch are both installed.

Transmission is back under the car, with ToB and clutch fork installed. Should be getting bolted in tomorrow.
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/27/14 05:47 AM

nice so it's only a matter of weeks now before it's back on the road ?
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/27/14 07:04 AM

I'm hoping 2 weeks on the high end
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/27/14 08:30 PM

Thats sound whats left to do smile
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/30/14 12:42 AM

So, transmission is partially bolted in, flush against the block. It was a [censored] getting it on over the dowels on the block, definitely a tight fit.

Firewall adjuster plate is tack welded on, and with the cable run out, the angle looks pretty good, clutch seems to be engaging, although there's a bit more slack in it than I'd like, so I ordered a double hook quadrant.

Big items left: finish up the plate for the FWA
- modify the rear crossmember
- order new driveshaft
- put everything else back


Pier: How/where do you usually route the clutch cable? Right now I've got it going down, under the zip tube, looping between the lower control arm and the frame, and into the trans. It's got plenty of room, away from the exhaust, but I'm a tad worried about running it along the control arm.
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/18/14 11:57 PM

It moved under its own power today, drove it all of two miles. Nothing noticeably wrong yet, but it was definitely an ordeal, and plenty of stuff left to finish up.

I'm amazed that pier has done 4 of these...
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/19/14 09:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Captain_Slow
It moved under its own power today, drove it all of two miles. Nothing noticeably wrong yet, but it was definitely an ordeal, and plenty of stuff left to finish up.

I'm amazed that pier has done 4 of these...


Nice man glad for you ...there is nothing like driving the car for the first time and not having to put in it OD laugh

Yep sometimes I ask myself the same question ..especialy doing it in a week end
Posted by: 09mnsp

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/20/14 12:51 AM

I wonder how many manual swapped panthers exist at this point.

Anyone got an estimate of just CVN members alone that have gone to the manual side?
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/20/14 10:32 AM

Originally Posted By: 09mnsp
I wonder how many manual swapped panthers exist at this point.

Anyone got an estimate of just CVN members alone that have gone to the manual side?


I have made over 25 sets of pedals and I could think of another 5 guys who did their own at least.

I'd say over 30
Posted by: MM54

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/20/14 12:32 PM

If I didn't need my car daily to get to/from work (and thus can't have it down for a week or two) I'd be amongst that 30 smile

Really jealous of all you manual guys!
Posted by: pantera77

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/20/14 12:36 PM

Over all, including cars not on CVN? At least 50 I'd wager.
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/20/14 02:06 PM

Originally Posted By: pantera77
Over all, including cars not on CVN? At least 50 I'd wager.


well I'd say that 10 12 sets I have made were for non cvn members
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/20/14 10:25 PM

Even then, there are a bunch of random guys who have made pedals and stuff from your videos but never post here, I ran into one guy like that a year or two ago.

I cannot at all imagine doing the swap in a weekend, although the 5 speed doesn't have as much [censored] to do with the crossmember, for sure. I also wound up having to pull the extension housing off the trans right at the end of last week and honing the output shaft bushing to get it to fit properly on the yoke. Shouldn't have to do that on a freshly rebuilt trans, that's for sure.

Also, from what I noticed during my whole 2 miles or so of driving it so far, is that if you don't have aftermarket control arms and a built rear end, you should have them. You're definitely putting much higher shock loads on the rear end/suspension with the manual, especially with the combination of a new clutch and the fact that it's cable operated.
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/21/14 06:30 AM

well I managed to do the swap in a week end because I have been doing many times in the past, all the parts were ready,we were two and I have a lift other wise I dont think it could be done in a normal week end .

yep manual trans destroy control arms even if you are really gentle with the right foot laugh
Posted by: Ari

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/23/14 02:00 AM

Congrats on the 2 miles!! A bunch of my plans have changed and I might be contacting you guys with questions.
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/23/14 06:11 AM

anytime man smile
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/27/14 10:37 PM

Same, feel free to hit me up with questions.

We're up to 700 miles or so, I've noticed a slight squeak/noise in the clutch (not the cable). Thinking I'll probably throw a bit of grease on the bit where the shaft and quadrant attach, see if that helps. Also getting some slight clutch chatter at low speed, but otherwise fine.
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/28/14 06:01 AM

is the cable set straight with the quadrant ?
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/28/14 10:15 AM

Yep, made up an adapter plate for it
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/28/14 09:50 PM

nice as far as the clutch was it new did you do the brake in period ?
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/29/14 08:17 AM

Yes and yes. It chatters a little in some cases (20% of the time?) when slipping in reverse or first, but otherwise fine.
Posted by: CNGInterceptor

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/29/14 05:48 PM

Hey Dan!

I'm glad to see you got the 6-speed in!
Posted by: Captain_Slow

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/30/14 10:38 AM

Thanks John, I've really been enjoying it, and your (along with pier, abyrnes, and a few others) help has really been invaluable
Posted by: CNGInterceptor

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/30/14 06:07 PM

That's good to hear!

Now that I'm back home - contact me if you need anything.
beer1
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 07/30/14 08:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Captain_Slow
Thanks John, I've really been enjoying it, and your (along with pier, abyrnes, and a few others) help has really been invaluable


anytime smile
Posted by: 2006_P71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/05/21 06:02 PM

RIP

https://flic.kr/p/2m3Nrb6
Posted by: 2004_p71

Re: All the cool kids are doing it.... - 06/06/21 07:52 PM

what happened to it ?