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#1309750 - 10/27/07 03:14 PM NEED HELP, PLEASE!
PantherP73 Offline

Relocated Yankee
Poobah

Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 5341
Loc: Greenville, South Carolina
Okay, I was just informed by another member on here that my drive shaft might take a dump with these gears. Well, not might, WILL. I noticed a slight shuddering the other day at around a constant 67-70 mph.

Is this true, and if it is, why hasn't anyone told me?
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2015 Kia Forte
2016 Hyundai Elantra
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#1309759 - 10/27/07 03:26 PM Re: NEED HELP, PLEASE! [Re: PantherP73]
Sepiroth Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 2822
Loc: Kouts, Indiana
Cause we are waiting for the "Holy Sh!t My Floor Blew Apart" thread.


Edited by Sepiroth (10/27/07 03:26 PM)

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#1309766 - 10/27/07 03:43 PM Re: NEED HELP, PLEASE! [Re: Sepiroth]
PantherP73 Offline

Relocated Yankee
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Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 5341
Loc: Greenville, South Carolina
Real funny.
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2015 Kia Forte
2016 Hyundai Elantra
Someday I will have real cars again.

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#1309768 - 10/27/07 03:44 PM Re: NEED HELP, PLEASE! [Re: Sepiroth]
Quickvic30 Offline
Just watchin
Grand Poobah

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 10922
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Thats why the MMC shaft comes on the 355 equipped cars

I have an extra alu shaft man if you want to buy it, I also have an extended housing if you want that also.
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#1309769 - 10/27/07 03:45 PM Re: NEED HELP, PLEASE! [Re: Quickvic30]
Quickvic30 Offline
Just watchin
Grand Poobah

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 10922
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Sorry man, I feel bad now, noone ever mentioned that.

You could try to have your shaft balanced.
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#1309779 - 10/27/07 03:52 PM Re: NEED HELP, PLEASE! [Re: Quickvic30]
Smee Offline
Climber

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 616
Loc: USA
Having one made isn't very expensive either.
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#1309781 - 10/27/07 03:55 PM Re: NEED HELP, PLEASE! [Re: Smee]
PantherP73 Offline

Relocated Yankee
Poobah

Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 5341
Loc: Greenville, South Carolina
Well, looks like I'm screwed. I should probably just pay another EFFING $422 and have the 3.08s put back in.

Thanks guys... I'm glad I could count on you.
_________________________
2015 Kia Forte
2016 Hyundai Elantra
Someday I will have real cars again.

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#1309783 - 10/27/07 03:58 PM Re: NEED HELP, PLEASE! [Re: PantherP73]
Quickvic30 Offline
Just watchin
Grand Poobah

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 10922
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
 Originally Posted By: PantherP74
Well, looks like I'm screwed. I should probably just pay another EFFING $422 and have the 3.08s put back in.

Thanks guys... I'm glad I could count on you.


what do you meen, settle down man, I just offered to sell you a DS
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#1309801 - 10/27/07 04:22 PM Re: NEED HELP, PLEASE! [Re: Quickvic30]
jchaase Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 239
Is this worse than the way the Mark VIIIs responded at a certain speed before Ford started using a different type of driveshaft? I know my car at a certain speed (think it was about 72) would vibrate pretty fierce, but anything below or above that was fine.

The Mark VIII crowd liked to switch-out to the fancier driveshafts, too. I just never drove that speed for very long.
_________________________
1997 Grand Marquis LS - purchase 75k miles 12/12/06
New intake - 85,100 miles 9/1/07
Mileage update - 98,500 12/26/08
PAID OFF - 12/17/08

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#1309803 - 10/27/07 04:26 PM Re: NEED HELP, PLEASE! [Re: PantherP73]
Sepiroth Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 2822
Loc: Kouts, Indiana
Anytime we can help you, you know where we are.









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#1309805 - 10/27/07 04:27 PM Re: NEED HELP, PLEASE! [Re: Sepiroth]
Sepiroth Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 2822
Loc: Kouts, Indiana
No compassion since there has been a few post as of recent on similar topics.

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#1309806 - 10/27/07 04:27 PM Re: NEED HELP, PLEASE! [Re: Quickvic30]
dRock96Marquis Offline


Posting Addict

Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 24394
Loc: Maryland
 Originally Posted By: Quickvic30
Thats why the MMC shaft comes on the 355 equipped cars



Wrong. All the 3.55 HPP panthers still used the stock STEEL drive shaft.
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-Derek
-Panther info & FAQs-



Former owner of a Grand Marquis with a few mods, Grand Marquis "LSE S/C"

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#1309819 - 10/27/07 04:44 PM Re: NEED HELP, PLEASE! [Re: dRock96Marquis]
FunkRider Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 2514
Loc: Whitecourt, Alberta, Canada
Call around and see how much to have your steel shaft balanced for now. They come out of balance when they get rusty over time. Then just gather parts to do the tailshaft conversion and aluminum drivesahft.
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#1309821 - 10/27/07 04:46 PM Re: NEED HELP, PLEASE! [Re: PantherP73]
dRock96Marquis Offline


Posting Addict

Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 24394
Loc: Maryland
 Originally Posted By: PantherP74
Okay, I was just informed by another member on here that my drive shaft might take a dump with these gears. Well, not might, WILL. I noticed a slight shuddering the other day at around a constant 67-70 mph.

Is this true, and if it is, why hasn't anyone told me?



First off, calm down.



Your driveshaft will not take a dump with that ratio. This is coming from some one who HAS 3.55s with a steel shaft, btw. As I mentioned above, ALL the 3.55 HPPs left the factory that way. You may start to feel a SLIGHT driveline vibration once the speeds get higher (ie ~80mph or more) which will get exponentially worse the faster you go. The drive shaft critical speed is still much higher than that. Your speed limiter, even with the 3.08 gears, is still lower than the critical speed with 3.55s and the steel shaft. This doesn't mean the driveshaft will be smooth as glass up to that speed, but it won't grenade. This is why the civilian panthers, which use a steel shaft, have lower speed limiters. And why the CVPIs, with aluminum (or AMMC 00) shafts have higher speed limiters. If it was a safety concern using the 3.55s and steel shaft with a civvy speed limiter, they would not have left the factory that way. The civvy speed limiter is around 106 mph, which at that speed, even with 3.55s, is below the critical speed of the driveshaft. That doesn't mean you should go that fast, though.

As long as you keep your cruising speeds below ~85mph, you are fine. What the vibration will do, if you decide to continue traveling at a high rate of speed with the vibration, is cause the tailshaft bushing to wear out prematurely. And if you do this long or frequent enough, cause it to blow out and puke tranny fluid. Short bursts to higher speeds will not cause this failure to happen immediately. It will also increase wear on the pinion bearings, u joints, and related components. The driveshaft itself should not fail unless you are going stupidly fast, but you would have to remove the speed limiter and be a jackass not knowing somethings about to happen (the driveshaft will be 'booming') to do so. You should not be going anywhere near that kind of speed on public roads, anyway.


That said, you should not be experiencing vibration at 60 or into the 70s. If you are, the driveshaft may not be indexed to the companion flange - or - the driveshaft was already out of balance, which would have been an underlying issue regardless of gear ratio, and is only more prominent with the faster drive line speeds. It is not uncommon for your driveshaft to be slightly out of balance. Your car is 15 years old, and I'm sure the shaft has plenty of rust on it. The steel shafts are rusty from day one. They normally don't flake or anything, just a thin even coating of surface rust. Even my car, which did not even go in the rain before I drove it, had rust on the shaft. They will get rusty just from the humidity. So, it's perfectly normal but eventually it can throw off the balance some.
Having the shaft balanced by a driveline shop should help the issue, and also raise the point at which you start feeling the driveline vibration - however the critical speed still applies, and you still will get the vibration if you go faster. Even the aluminum shaft will begin to oscillate causing driveline vibration with steeper ratios at high speeds. Our driveline is very long. When the CVPI got 3.55s, the speed limiter was lowered and as a result the following year (00) the AMMC shaft was used so the speed limiter could safely be made higher. In later years on the CVPIs when 3.55 was brought back as an option, they simply lowered the speed limiter even further for a sufficient 'safety zone' rather than using a different shaft than the normal aluminum. This speed was around 120mph, the critical speed was a little higher. The lower the weight and length of the driveshaft, the higher the critical driveline speed will be.





It is well documented that an aluminum shaft is recommended with steeper gear ratios, this is not news. However, with a 3.55 RAR you will still be 'ok' with the steel shaft. I'm not going to say upgrading is not a good idea, it is. Especially if you do frequently like to go 80mph+. But you will be fine without it until you decide to do it in the future, just don't be an idiot testign out the top end. Also, a 92-94 CVPI aluminum shaft and tail shaft housing would cost a lot less than having the old gears put back in.



And for those who reference this in the future, it is highly recommended to use the aluminum shaft w/ elongated tailshaft housing with a 3.73 swap, and required for 4.10s or higher. The AMMC shaft is recommended for those who travel at high rates of speed with a 3.73 ratio, and for most speeds with a 4.10 or higher ratio. A driveshaft loop is also a good idea for 3.73 or higher as a saftey precaution.
For more info on the aluminum shafts and extension housings, refer to some of my previous posts on the subject:
https://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbth...true#Post971830
https://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbth...true#Post996908
https://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbth...rue#Post1023132
_________________________
-Derek
-Panther info & FAQs-



Former owner of a Grand Marquis with a few mods, Grand Marquis "LSE S/C"

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#1309824 - 10/27/07 04:57 PM Re: NEED HELP, PLEASE! [Re: dRock96Marquis]
PantherP73 Offline

Relocated Yankee
Poobah

Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 5341
Loc: Greenville, South Carolina
I'm calm guys, but I was seriously freaking out there for a little bit.

dRock, thanks for that. Quickvic has offered to sell me a driveshaft and possibly the extended housing at a very reasonable price. I would like to know exactly what all is involved with that... what I will need, etc. Also, how much lighter is the aluminum drive shaft vs. the stock one and what other benefits will it provide?

I don't think my driveshaft is as rusty as everyone may think it is... the first time I saw under my car, a few weeks after my exhaust was put on, it looked DAMN good. I doubt it really saw any winters before me.

I'm taking the car back to Ford to get the speedo gear put in... I'll ask that guy (I was referred to him because he knows his [censored] and is a car guy) about a balancing then.

I do like to make trips above 80 mph occasionally, although quite rare. Usually my cruising speed is 65-70 mph, traffic dependant.
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2015 Kia Forte
2016 Hyundai Elantra
Someday I will have real cars again.

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