No problem Yvan,

Tomorrow morning I am setting up an appointment for a power bleed. If that doesn't fix it, then I am giving them the car until they make it better.

Mine hasn been doing that exact thing. Seems better lately for whatever reason. I was gonna get the brake fluid bled due to possible water cantamination but now ...we'll see.Hard pedal and pressing harder doesn't help. Does feel like something wll break and it doesn't seem to grip the pads.This is usually when hot and coming off an offramp to a stop.The vacuum check valve that John mentioned sounds like a possibility alright. Let us know.

ive had experiances where the aftermarket brake pads feel almost spongey. you might hafto change your front performance friction pads back to motocraft pads. also ... how did you bed in the new pads? if you did a bunch of hard stops,you might have overheated em right off the bat. in my experiance if you do about a 5 mile drive... driving normaly(not babbying or grandpah driving)on aftermarket pads they usually will feel good after that when dedding them in. also did your guy cleen off the cosmoline/oil(it prevents rust in the box) off the rotors when he put the new ones on? that will cause the pads to not seat rite also.

Perhaps there is some air trapped in the ABS HCU. Supposedly, normal bleeding will not get the air out and some sort of scanner must be used to open all the control valves in the HCU while bleeding.

I suspect that may be my problem except my issues are more noticeable when the roads are wet. I have to stand on the brake pedal to get it to stop AND it pulls, sometimes left, sometimes right. I've put all new calipers, rotors, pads and front hoses on since I bought the car and it still does the same thing. When its dry out, its much better but still feels wierd comapred to other cars.

Doesn't the air eventually get pumped out of the ABS module when it activates? Of course, then it would be sent off towards one of the calipers... or does it actually stay in the module forever? Just wondering. Some time ago I think dRock detailed a home brew method of purging the ABS module by activating it intentionaly while driving and such.

Now I take the cars and trucks for a spin after flushing the brake fluid and give them lots of reasons to activate the ABS. When I come back, the fill tank is full of old dark fluid again! So a second flush gets that out and it stays clean from then on. It didn't do that in the past if I just drove around like a good citizen. And I thought I was protecting the expensive ABS module from corrosion by just flushing out the old brake fluid!

A good pro could do it all in one step of course...

I'm just wondering here. Your MASTER FORD TECH can't figure this out??

I've had better brakes on other cars.

The Vic seems to be underbraked for such a heavy beast and does require a fair bit of foot pressure before anything starts to happen. My Vic hasn't got ABS, so it's plenty of fun in the rain and snow!!!


Do the brakes pull the car to the left or right or not ?

Can you see the rotors, are they nice and shiny ?

Have you checked for seized caliper pistons or slides ?

Have you checked for brake binding ?

[quote=Sepiroth

I'm just wondering here. Your MASTER FORD TECH can't figure this out?? [/quote]


As I mentioned above, I am bringing it back to him to get it taken care of. The dealership is 50 miles from me, so I can't stop by there that often. I am just trying to get a game plan together so that this can get resolved without a lot of down time at the Dealership.

He said that the pedal felt normal to him when he drove it after replacing the master cylinder and hoses. I wasn't happy with the pedal feel, but after all, he said it was OK.

However, no one else that's driven it since has said that the brakes feel right.

At this point - JohnG has mentioned that a POWER bleed is needed.
This Ford Tech said that it wasn't needed at the time it was done. My Ford Service CD seems to indicate that it should have been power bled too.

So now the car is going back to get a power bleed and if it isn't any better, the car is going to remain there until a solution is found.

As I mentioned above, I am bringing it back to him to get it taken care of.

Never said he couldn't figure it out.

He said that the pedal felt normal to him when he drove it after replacing the master cylinder and hoses. I wasn't happy with the pedal feel, but after all, he said it was OK.

However, no one else that's driven it since has said that the brakes feel right.

At this point - JohnG has mentioned that a POWER bleed is needed.
This Ford Tech said that it wasn't needed at the time it was done. My Ford Service CD seems to indicate that it should have been power bled too.

So now the car is going back to get a power bleed and if it isn't any better, the car is going to remain there until a solution is found. [/quote]

Then by that post, doesnt seem to me like a well tuned quality job1 Master Ford Tech. I mean first it doesnt need it. The CD says it does. Now it will be done. WOW.

Sepiroth - I hear what you're saying, not sure what to make of the situation. He has worked on my cars ( T-Bird, - CV since 1996), and he has never let me down.


Lots of people say the brakes on Taurus's, T-Bird's, F150's and CV's are poor, it's just that I think mine is beyond that.

RT,

Our '04 MGM stops ON A DIME with change, and does not require much pedal effort. You can involk ABS on clean and dry roads EASILY, snow and ice make it an "every stop" affair.

I once had the symptoms you describe on a car, damned near got killed during the road test. Came back to the shop, pulled the wheels to find all 4 rotors as blue as the WinXP toolbar! The pads were junk, hard as h#ll and it simply would not stop. 4 new OEM (Delco) rotors and sets of pads and it was perfect. I suspect air got into your system during the hose replacement, and that is causing your problems. At any rate, a FULL brake fluid flush is due now with your car being 5 model years old. # years is the MOST I would care to use DOT 3 brake fluid, with DOT 4 you can typically get by with 4 years, 5 in the South West where it's DRY.

If it has NEVER been right from 11,000 miles, I'd be far more suspicious of the booster than of the need for more bleeding. Perhaps a vacuum restriction at the intake manifold source connection, the plastic elbow going into the booster, or the booster unit itself has a problem right from the factory.

When the brakes are being bled, does the volume of the fluid squirting out the bleeder valve seem proportional to pressure being applied by the pedal or bleeder unit?

If 2 wheels were skidding and 2 were coasting, fluid flow problem would seem likely. Since all 4 are weak, I still suspect the booster. There should be a source of atmospheric (ambient) air into the booster. If this is restricted or plugged, the more the diaphragm deflects, the closer to equal pressure on both sides of the diaphragm yielding very weak boost.

All of the Panthers I have driven have had a light touch on the brakes. I have done repeated stops from high speed so I don't know the fade characteristics, but in normal driving the brakes always seemed very adequate. Once the brakes stop rotation, there isn't much more than can do. (Yes, I know that isn't optimum braking)

Part of the problem was that when I took the car to Ford to have my friend install the stainless steel hoses, we both saw that the master cylinder had a very slight weeping of fluid where it bolts to the booster. It could very well have been leaking the day I purchased it with the 11,000 miles. Since this is my first CV, I have no idea of what the brakes SHOULD feel like.

He replaced the Mast. Cyl. with a brand new - not rebuilt - Ford OEM unit.

After he finished bleeding the brakes, he took it on a quick test drive and said " that's a good pedal" . I got in it to drive back home and it didn't seem much better than before.

I called and asked him if we should have power bled it, and he said no.

Decided to replace the front pads and rotors with the PF brand units, and noticed no change.

It also takes anywhere from 1 to 2 inches of pedal travel to get the brakes to start grabbing.

If I try to do a "panic stop" from 60 mph, the car will stop, but it seems to take forever, and I cannot get the ABS to come on when the roads are dry. ON wet roads, or snow, the ABS will activate when expected.


Anyhow who, I will bring them the car once more, and have them check the vacuum booster, replace the fluid, and do a power bleed.


Thanks to all who offered their input .........

I had a base 2003 Vic, with poopoo brakes. I put on drilled/slotted brake calipers with ceramic pads. Bled each line completely while refilling with full synthetic fluid. Night and day!! Car went from a scary stopping car, to stopping like a small car. Quietly and limited dust. Never got brake fade again. I now have an 02 P71, and they suck, IMO. The same upgrade will take place as soon as brakes are needed I will do all four corners!!