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#1408121 - 02/26/08 07:07 PM First problem with my car
saleen749 Offline
Blood runs Blue
Climber

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 635
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
From the start, sorry about writing a novel. Trying to be as precise as possible.

I'm gonna start from the beginning. Everything is just as usual, I'm on the highway making my 30 mile drive to college. Just when my exit comes up, i start slowing down from 70mph... and feel something strange in the car's feel. Right away I shut off the stereo and vents to minimize confusion. It feels like its shuddering. I get to my first red light, idle is steady at 700rpm in D and brake applied... sounds normal and then again shudders on and off at random times. Now i'm freaking out, it feels like a "cammed" car, then smooth as ever. On and off. Pull in to the first service station I see and pop the hood. I'm staring at the engine and I can see it run smooth... then it jumps o so slightly, but noticeably, on the car's lateral axis. Now I might add it's snowing and I have a bad hand so I was pretty frustrated at this point that I can't check very much. So I check my fluids, coolant is low (surprised me) but engine was running, i'll have to check that tomorrow morning. Usually that has always been full to the MAX line and it was about 3-4 inches from the full mark. Engine oil was a little low, added some. Couldnt check tranny with my bad hand. Quick visual inspection, everything looks OK...

This went on all day, only seems to be around at low RPMs. Idle to around 1800 RPM. But the car doesn't feel like it lost power... I floored it on some open stretches and it feels fine.
No CEL(and it's not burnt). Gauges are normal. RPM doesn't vary with the "shudders".
Fuel filter is not even a year old. I always run 91octane. Spark plugs changed last year. COPs maybe?? but then why no CEL... Engine mounts?? vacuum leak? but then RPMs are steady.

Now. I just got home and it's a nice and quiet street. So I throw it in Park, no brake. Smooth... AH there it's still doing it. so I go to the back of the car and listen to the exhaust. Usual flowmaster sound and then when the vibration/shudder occurs it sounds like pop-corn in the exhaust. So when the "problem" happens, inside the car you feel a vibration/shudder and a sound like corn popping in the exhaust.

All this and no CEL.

I am stumpped and freaking out.
One thing that crossed my mind but I don't know how possible this is. Maybe the plastic coolant crossover finally gave way just a bit and coolant is getting sucked into the engine? that would explain low coolant and the odd running. I really have no idea.

Thanks in advance for any help/ideas.
_________________________
1998 Silver Frost P73 / 2003 White P71(not running yet)

-91 octane tune by BOC, MM airbox + MAF, PI Intake swap, BBK 70mm TB, ported intake elbow, 22C plugs, Walbro 190, 180 T-stat, EGR delete, Jmod, Flowmaster 40s, P71 springs and shocks, slotted brakes, MMC drive-shaft, 3.55 posi w/ carbon clutches, brand new Motorcraft COPs and headlight relay upgrade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDD0f3KhIL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iimDSfeaupY

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#1408180 - 02/26/08 08:20 PM Re: First problem with my car [Re: saleen749]
Rizzo Offline
J-MOD Master
Metroplectic

Registered: 03/06/04
Posts: 29215
Loc: Romulus,MI
Heres my two cents.

Check out the thermostat area thats intake area # 1
Then check out the Heater core hose nipple. Thats # 2

Lastly running 91 octane ( UNLESS YOU HAVE A TUNE )is pointless in our engines.Especially is yours as you have a knock sensor. The computer will retard the timing and all additional power will be null.
_________________________


The Jmod video is done! LINK!

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#1408194 - 02/26/08 08:30 PM Re: First problem with my car [Re: Rizzo]
SteveS Offline
Administrator
Posting Addict

Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 16502
Loc: Groveland, MA
'98 does not have a knock sensor.

Coolant can't get into the engine from the normal cracked crossover or other coolant leaks that these cars experience. BUT... the coolant can get into the plug wells and cause misfires. Usually that would be accompanied by a flashing MIL for the misfire, but it would be a good first spot to look.
_________________________
Steve
**Boston SmartTraveler road unit 473**


1991 P72, 2006 P71, 2016 Explorer XLT, 2019 F250 XLT CCSB

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#1408241 - 02/26/08 09:01 PM Re: First problem with my car [Re: SteveS]
Dan The Vic Man Offline
Poobah

Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 9890
Loc: Coon Rapids MN
I bet you have a cop thats going bad, check and make sure you dont see any coolant by the #4 cylinder or any coolant by the thermostat housing area/alt. BTW i like your center caps nice and shinny ;\)
_________________________
2012 Ford F150 Ecoboost

1998 mercury Grand Marquis, 58k miles slower than a turtle stock as stock gets

RIP 99 CVPI

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#1408525 - 02/27/08 12:52 AM Re: First problem with my car [Re: Dan The Vic Man]
saleen749 Offline
Blood runs Blue
Climber

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 635
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Tomorrow afternoon i'm going to my buddy's garage to get the car scanned, maybe there's a soft code that'll lead me in the proper direction. Then I'll throw the car in the garage for a bit to get out of the snow and check the spark plug wells. I'll let you all know how it goes.
_________________________
1998 Silver Frost P73 / 2003 White P71(not running yet)

-91 octane tune by BOC, MM airbox + MAF, PI Intake swap, BBK 70mm TB, ported intake elbow, 22C plugs, Walbro 190, 180 T-stat, EGR delete, Jmod, Flowmaster 40s, P71 springs and shocks, slotted brakes, MMC drive-shaft, 3.55 posi w/ carbon clutches, brand new Motorcraft COPs and headlight relay upgrade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDD0f3KhIL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iimDSfeaupY

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#1408581 - 02/27/08 03:58 AM Re: First problem with my car [Re: saleen749]
DeadHeadP71 Offline
Climber

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 863
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
How many miles on the car?

Seems like what you could be experiencing is a little bit of a stumble at idle and low rpms/decell. Not uncommon on a higher mileage engine, and to tell you the truth if anything running 91 octane is only making it worse. You should always run the standard 87 octane as that is what your engine was designed to run on. It can increase combustion temps forming carbon buildup inside the engine. It effectively raises your compression ratio and can cause the problems you are experiencing. I think at this point the 91 is making it not so noticeable. I would try some 87 and see how it runs.

If it was my car I would check the plugs and COP as mentioned above, and if it's got miles on it run some SeaFoam through it.
_________________________
2001 CVPI - Former Indiana State Police Vehicle
Black, 5% Tint, Pioneer CD/MP3 Player, Pioneer 6x8 Front, Pioneer 6x9 Rear,
Pioneer Amp, Pioneer Premier 12" DVC Sub
BF Goodrich Control Plus

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#1409045 - 02/27/08 04:22 PM Re: First problem with my car [Re: DeadHeadP71]
saleen749 Offline
Blood runs Blue
Climber

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 635
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Car has about 120,000 miles on it. I always used to run 87 until I noticed a nasty knock at WOT. Changing the plugs helped, but it was still there a bit, so that's when i went to 91. Guess I'll go back to 87 for a bit to see what happens, until i get my tune.

So on to the main subject. Just to give it a shot, I popped in a bottle of lucas injector cleaner before my usual 60 mile trip to school(and back). Seemed to be better mannered on the way home. Got the car scanned, no codes. Diagnostic passed. Not doing it anymore... T-stat area dry, heater area dry, still gotta look around and under the cops.

I did find my coolant leak tho, water pump... pretty obvious. Coolant frozen under it and dampner covered.

So I guess it's gone for now? I'll keep the thread posted on what happens.
_________________________
1998 Silver Frost P73 / 2003 White P71(not running yet)

-91 octane tune by BOC, MM airbox + MAF, PI Intake swap, BBK 70mm TB, ported intake elbow, 22C plugs, Walbro 190, 180 T-stat, EGR delete, Jmod, Flowmaster 40s, P71 springs and shocks, slotted brakes, MMC drive-shaft, 3.55 posi w/ carbon clutches, brand new Motorcraft COPs and headlight relay upgrade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDD0f3KhIL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iimDSfeaupY

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#1419836 - 03/11/08 01:06 AM Re: First problem with my car [Re: saleen749]
saleen749 Offline
Blood runs Blue
Climber

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 635
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
still got this darn problem

anybody got an idea how I can determine which COP is giving me problems?
_________________________
1998 Silver Frost P73 / 2003 White P71(not running yet)

-91 octane tune by BOC, MM airbox + MAF, PI Intake swap, BBK 70mm TB, ported intake elbow, 22C plugs, Walbro 190, 180 T-stat, EGR delete, Jmod, Flowmaster 40s, P71 springs and shocks, slotted brakes, MMC drive-shaft, 3.55 posi w/ carbon clutches, brand new Motorcraft COPs and headlight relay upgrade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDD0f3KhIL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iimDSfeaupY

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#1419850 - 03/11/08 01:16 AM Re: First problem with my car [Re: saleen749]
Benfolio Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 1312
Loc: Milwaukee, Wi.
Put it on a (I forget the name) scanner and watch the misfire counters real-time. These cars WILL MISFIRE BADLY without setting a 'soft' code or a CEL.
I left coils UNPLUGGED on my '98 and at idle for a few minutes the light never came on.
Misfired like a mofo and never set a light, had to watch the counter to see that #4 coil was bad. A week or two later #2 went, but that DID set a light as I was beating on the car, on the freeway.
_________________________

1998 Subaru Legacy
1998 CVPI - SOLD
2001 CVPI - SOLD

www.SUPERMOTORS.net/users/Benfolio
www.MySpace.com/Benfolio

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#1419858 - 03/11/08 01:20 AM Re: First problem with my car [Re: Benfolio]
saleen749 Offline
Blood runs Blue
Climber

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 635
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I had the scanner on last week and OBVIOUSLY it decides to run like a charm when I scan!! Don't you just hate that...
_________________________
1998 Silver Frost P73 / 2003 White P71(not running yet)

-91 octane tune by BOC, MM airbox + MAF, PI Intake swap, BBK 70mm TB, ported intake elbow, 22C plugs, Walbro 190, 180 T-stat, EGR delete, Jmod, Flowmaster 40s, P71 springs and shocks, slotted brakes, MMC drive-shaft, 3.55 posi w/ carbon clutches, brand new Motorcraft COPs and headlight relay upgrade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDD0f3KhIL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iimDSfeaupY

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#1419867 - 03/11/08 01:25 AM Re: First problem with my car [Re: saleen749]
Benfolio Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 1312
Loc: Milwaukee, Wi.
Did you brake torque it to put a load on the motor?
_________________________

1998 Subaru Legacy
1998 CVPI - SOLD
2001 CVPI - SOLD

www.SUPERMOTORS.net/users/Benfolio
www.MySpace.com/Benfolio

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#1420395 - 03/11/08 04:22 PM Re: First problem with my car [Re: Benfolio]
saleen749 Offline
Blood runs Blue
Climber

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 635
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
It usually does it in every gear selection, even neutral with no brake, parking brake or load. I did try revving it up and hoping it would misfire as the revs dropped. Tried Drive with brake. Sometimes she decides to behave.
_________________________
1998 Silver Frost P73 / 2003 White P71(not running yet)

-91 octane tune by BOC, MM airbox + MAF, PI Intake swap, BBK 70mm TB, ported intake elbow, 22C plugs, Walbro 190, 180 T-stat, EGR delete, Jmod, Flowmaster 40s, P71 springs and shocks, slotted brakes, MMC drive-shaft, 3.55 posi w/ carbon clutches, brand new Motorcraft COPs and headlight relay upgrade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDD0f3KhIL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iimDSfeaupY

Top
#1420444 - 03/11/08 05:17 PM Re: First problem with my car [Re: saleen749]
Dan The Vic Man Offline
Poobah

Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 9890
Loc: Coon Rapids MN
 Originally Posted By: saleen749
It usually does it in every gear selection, even neutral with no brake, parking brake or load. I did try revving it up and hoping it would misfire as the revs dropped. Tried Drive with brake. Sometimes she decides to behave.
You will have to put it on a scan tool where you can graph all 8 cylinders and then power brake it and see what cylinder drops on the graph this will tell you what cop is giving you issues.
_________________________
2012 Ford F150 Ecoboost

1998 mercury Grand Marquis, 58k miles slower than a turtle stock as stock gets

RIP 99 CVPI

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#1425261 - 03/16/08 04:44 PM Re: First problem with my car [Re: saleen749]
saleen749 Offline
Blood runs Blue
Climber

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 635
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Well well well... I pulled the passenger bank COPs today and looky what I found. Heater nipple leaking...





Time for me to join the club.
Gives me a reason to get the PI intake on there \:\)
_________________________
1998 Silver Frost P73 / 2003 White P71(not running yet)

-91 octane tune by BOC, MM airbox + MAF, PI Intake swap, BBK 70mm TB, ported intake elbow, 22C plugs, Walbro 190, 180 T-stat, EGR delete, Jmod, Flowmaster 40s, P71 springs and shocks, slotted brakes, MMC drive-shaft, 3.55 posi w/ carbon clutches, brand new Motorcraft COPs and headlight relay upgrade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDD0f3KhIL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iimDSfeaupY

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#1425830 - 03/17/08 09:16 AM Re: First problem with my car [Re: saleen749]
troyco Offline
Climber

Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 508
Loc: Ontario, Canada
....and another happy ending! \:\)
_________________________


1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
70mm Aviator throttle body, Professional Products ported upper plenum, STEEDA underdrive pulleys, Auto Meter tach, MSD 8mm wires, MSD coils, 180 thermostat, 17" BULLITT wheels with 245/45/ZR17 Good Year rubber, Blue Oval Industries ceramic coated headers, custom 2.25" cat-back exhaust with x-pipe, Edelbrock SDT mufflers, stainless exhaust tips, Magnaflow Hi-Flow Cats, 21mm HPP rear sway bar
UPCOMING MODS:
Snow tires and an oil change.

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