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#1419299 - 03/10/08 02:20 PM 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox?
lemansz Offline
Rookie

Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 58
i used the search function, but couldnt come up with much.

i have a 03 cv with stock airbox and tube
70 mm tb

i want to go with an 80.

should I do the 04 vic 80 mm box and meter?

or marauder airbox ?

which one has a different wiring plug for the meter?

which vip tube? 04 vic?

thanks in advance!
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#1419355 - 03/10/08 03:57 PM Re: 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox? [Re: lemansz]
Quickvic30 Offline
Just watchin
Grand Poobah

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 10922
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
I would go for the marauder maf and box, it can handle more airflow before it pegs the maf voltage. The 04cvpi has the different maf plug. I like the 06+ ziptubes, they are a hard plastic instead of the soft rubber like the 04 ziptube. With the 06+ ziptube you will need a small breather filter for the pcv tube that usually goes into the air intake tube, they only have one vacuum port on the 06+ ziptubes \:\) . you will also need a tune to calibrate that MAF to your pcm.
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#1419915 - 03/11/08 02:20 AM Re: 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox? [Re: Quickvic30]
dRock96Marquis Offline


Posting Addict

Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 24394
Loc: Maryland
 Originally Posted By: Quickvic30
With the 06+ ziptube you will need a small breather filter for the pcv tube that usually goes into the air intake tube, they only have one vacuum port on the 06+ ziptubes \:\)


I highly advise against this. Though it would work it will be sucking in un-metered air for the PCV system and will cause your air fuel trim to go lean.
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-Panther info & FAQs-



Former owner of a Grand Marquis with a few mods, Grand Marquis "LSE S/C"

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#1419926 - 03/11/08 02:43 AM Re: 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox? [Re: dRock96Marquis]
Quickvic30 Offline
Just watchin
Grand Poobah

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 10922
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Really, never had a problem with that.
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#1420115 - 03/11/08 12:13 PM Re: 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox? [Re: Quickvic30]
Mario Offline
Member

Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 284
Ditto. I have the '06* inlet tube and have the street side crankcase ventilation hose relocated to the inside and forward on the air box lid. Pre-MAF post filter. Car an computer likes it.
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#1420153 - 03/11/08 12:53 PM Re: 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox? [Re: Mario]
DeadHeadP71 Offline
Climber

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 863
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Doesn't that just get your MAF dirty much more quickly?
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#1420220 - 03/11/08 01:37 PM Re: 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox? [Re: Quickvic30]
dRock96Marquis Offline


Posting Addict

Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 24394
Loc: Maryland
 Originally Posted By: Quickvic30
Really, never had a problem with that.

Yea, but wasn't your car dynotuned?

The tuner could adjust for your setup some right there and compensate to keep your a/f trim nice and flat. Some guy on here with no tune, or only getting a "mail order" tune can't adjust for that and as a result would run slightly lean from sucking in the unmetered air. It would be the same as if there was a large vacuum leak, as the MAF is not registering the extra incoming air. Know what I mean?
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-Derek
-Panther info & FAQs-



Former owner of a Grand Marquis with a few mods, Grand Marquis "LSE S/C"

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#1420222 - 03/11/08 01:39 PM Re: 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox? [Re: dRock96Marquis]
Quickvic30 Offline
Just watchin
Grand Poobah

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 10922
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Yeah i get your drift but i've never had any problems with it, tunned or untunned, but yeah i could see it being a minor problem if you put a monster coone on there
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#1420223 - 03/11/08 01:39 PM Re: 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox? [Re: DeadHeadP71]
dRock96Marquis Offline


Posting Addict

Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 24394
Loc: Maryland
 Originally Posted By: DeadHeadP71
Doesn't that just get your MAF dirty much more quickly?


I think he is saying he has the PCV SUPPLY tube at the airbox, but the PCV return is still at the plenum.


He has an 05 so his adjustments to the PCV return are limited (uses stupid locking clips on the return hose and the PCV is heated)
The PCV supply is the larger one, before the t/b, and feeds the PCV system
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-Derek
-Panther info & FAQs-



Former owner of a Grand Marquis with a few mods, Grand Marquis "LSE S/C"

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#1420227 - 03/11/08 01:43 PM Re: 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox? [Re: dRock96Marquis]
Dan The Vic Man Offline
Poobah

Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 9890
Loc: Coon Rapids MN
 Originally Posted By: dRock96Marquis
 Originally Posted By: Quickvic30
Really, never had a problem with that.

Yea, but wasn't your car dynotuned?

The tuner could adjust for your setup some right there and compensate to keep your a/f trim nice and flat. Some guy on here with no tune, or only getting a "mail order" tune can't adjust for that and as a result would run slightly lean from sucking in the unmetered air. It would be the same as if there was a large vacuum leak, as the MAF is not registering the extra incoming air. Know what I mean?
But why does the maf sensor need to know about air that is coming from the crank case, as the tube that goes into the air tube draws the air from the crankcase when the throttle plate is open and its all after the maf sensor to begin with. Im trying to figure out both of your guys reasoning. I also have a breather on my valve cover just like quick and have never had any problems and neither have people that i know that have the same set up with out a tune. Not saying that your wrong or not.
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#1420238 - 03/11/08 01:52 PM Re: 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox? [Re: Dan The Vic Man]
Quickvic30 Offline
Just watchin
Grand Poobah

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 10922
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
I believe that the pcv tube sucks in clean air from the intake tube, not put crankcase oil/air back into the intake tube.
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#1420562 - 03/11/08 06:57 PM Re: 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox? [Re: Quickvic30]
dRock96Marquis Offline


Posting Addict

Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 24394
Loc: Maryland
 Quote:
But why does the maf sensor need to know about air that is coming from the crank case, as the tube that goes into the air tube draws the air from the crankcase when the throttle plate is open and its all after the maf sensor to begin with. Im trying to figure out both of your guys reasoning. I also have a breather on my valve cover just like quick and have never had any problems and neither have people that i know that have the same set up with out a tune. Not saying that your wrong or not.

Russ got it.
The PCV system uses vacuum from the plenum to draw clean air through the crankcase to vent it. The air is supplied from the intake tube, before the throttle body of course so it's not restricted by throttle position. Air is not drawn FROM the crankcase through that tube into the intake tube (pre-TB) like you're saying - that would not only render the PCV system useless at lower throttle position but since the PCV valve is on the other side would allow the entire intake to be coated in crankcase oil vapor In addition, the PCV is designed to only flow air the correct way - that's why it has the small weight inside. Air can flow through it to the top and into the plenum, but not down and back through the crankcase.

All airflow into the engine is metered by the MAF to aide control of the air-fuel trim. By having the PCV system draw air from a breather rather than the intake tube, you are drawing un-metered air through the crankcase and into the plenum. This would cause the car to behave just like a vacuum leak - there is extra air being sucked in that the MAF did not see. And just like a vacuum leak, this extra un-metered air causes the air/fuel ratio to go slightly lean as the MAF is not metering this air, only the air passing through, so the PCM is using a air/fuel map for less airflow than you actually have and causes the HEGOs to see a leaner condition which has to be corrected.


Again, you also have a dynotune where this can be corrected. But someone with a stock vehicle, or one without a tune with this in mind WILL run leaner because of it. Probably not enough to cause damage or anything, but leaner none-the-less.
What I'm saying is on a stock vehicle it may work, but it's not right ;\)
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-Derek
-Panther info & FAQs-



Former owner of a Grand Marquis with a few mods, Grand Marquis "LSE S/C"

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#1420584 - 03/11/08 07:26 PM Re: 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox? [Re: dRock96Marquis]
Mario Offline
Member

Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 284
Good Tech dRock!
03+ Panthers, the predominant sensors that determine A/F (and most everything else) are the HO2S sensors. Under certain conditions, 10% of intake air is from EVAP, PCV, and EGR systems. Some of it is 'good' air (EVAP) and some of it is 'bad' air (PVC/EGR) Oxygen sensors help manage fuel, ignition and (on 05+ Panthers) throttle in reaction.
The problem with drawing PCV fresh air from the the airbox is that air is at a much lower vacuum than the PCV crankcase to plenum vacuum air. Placing the PCV inlet as far forward as possible on the airbox lid works well, but if you look closely you will still see the intake manifold pressure bounce a bit when the PCV solenoid thumps on. It's not perfect and there are limits, but it works.
I would suggest to anyone the '06+ CVPI inlet tube. Because it has only one outlet, those with IAC and PVC will have to decide whether modifying PVC intake is worth the hassle.
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#1420681 - 03/11/08 09:13 PM Re: 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox? [Re: Mario]
dRock96Marquis Offline


Posting Addict

Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 24394
Loc: Maryland
-02s also use the HO2S sensors to determine A/F, but the MAF plays a part in it as well as effecting the transmission shift pressure and shift and tc schedule.
I had never heard of a 4.6 panther having a PCV solenoid, though, I know 05+ PCVs are heated and use quick connect couplings now as well as the screw-in base like all 03+. I have an 05+ PCV in the garage somewhere which just has a two wire hookup which the EVTM lists for the heating coil inside. The plenum has no solenoid for PCV on it. Where is it?
_________________________
-Derek
-Panther info & FAQs-



Former owner of a Grand Marquis with a few mods, Grand Marquis "LSE S/C"

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#1420718 - 03/11/08 09:37 PM Re: 04 cv airbox or marauder airbox? [Re: dRock96Marquis]
Quickvic30 Offline
Just watchin
Grand Poobah

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 10922
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Good info as always derek.
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