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#1451409 - 04/16/08 12:21 PM The starter is a PAIN to replace.
RWDForever Offline

Climber

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Mercedes Stadium
Pray that your's does not die.

After 4 hours I replaced the GM's starter with 172K miles on it. For anyone attempting this...you HAVE to buy two 3/8 inch flex extension connectors for your socket extensions to flex around frame and engine components. AND you will need a variety of lengths of extensions to make a snake that will go around the motor mount and A/C compressor to do that 3rd inside-most bolt next to the block.
Without the flex connectors I could not get a straight extension to fit and attach a rachet to it to get the bolt off.

I had to play with different lengths and placement of the flex joints to finally get it to work to remove the bolts. My total length to do that inside-close to the block 3rd bolt was an extension about 2 feet long using both flex connectors.

I hope the newer 2003+ models with the redesigned front frame is better than this design.

FYI: I took the old starter apart and the seals had gone bad and let dirt inside, all the brushes and contacts were fine but grit had done too much damage to the rest of the starter.
_________________________
1995 GM/LS -- 364K miles, engine rebuilt in my garage at 310K miles, 3rd plastic intake, 4th steering box, 2nd front suspension rebuild. MODS:1998 transmission, 1996 PCM, 1996 engine/trans wiring harness spliced in. A/C compressor cutoff dash switch, leather seats recovered with NOS cloth, dash switch for heater core shutoff valve. HPP springs installed front, police springs installed rear. 1997 steering box upgrade. My clearcoat is peeling off.

1992 Taurus LX -- 108k miles, added transmission cooler. Rear heavy duty springs.

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#1451420 - 04/16/08 12:44 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: RWDForever]
theredlineboss Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 1557
Loc: Taylor, MI
Did you attempt to remove the solenoid before removing the starter? Removing that makes the procedure go quite a bit faster.

Rob
_________________________
1996 Police Interceptor-Glory days are over frown - old specs below **216K miles**; Moved to a stock '97 Vic...sold to my brother **184K miles**
Engine: '03 4.6 w/ underdrives, shorties, custom downpipes, MZT, 70MM T/B, ADTR ported plenum, & Dyno Tuned.
Trans: Y2K 4r70w w/ J-mod, Spiral Lock clip, '04 Marauder TC, and an Econoline trans cooler.
Suspension/steering/brakes: '02 PI steering box, 17" 'stang wheels, '95 ABS master cyl., ADDCO bars, and Big Brake Upgrade!
Misc: '98+ Heated mirrors, 2-tone Gray interior, 98+ gauges, oil cooler-delete, and LX Sport console w/ floor shift!

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#1451836 - 04/16/08 09:46 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: theredlineboss]
Sepiroth Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 2822
Loc: Kouts, Indiana
I dont know why so many people have such a b!tch of a time with starters on these mod motors. On average, it takes me less that a half hour to swap them out.

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#1451840 - 04/16/08 09:48 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: Sepiroth]
Fordiesel69 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 4399
Loc: Erie, PA
I opt to remove the A/C compressor and just move it off to the side. No need to disconnect or discharge.
_________________________
rant2 ******Need your heater core replaced? Click Here******rant2
-'99 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.55 Trac-Loc(DK), Cloth Interior, Black Honeycomb Grill, Black PI Trunk Bezel, Silverstars, 183K
-'00 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.55 (R2), Cloth Interior, Black PI Trunk Bezel, 03+ Full Wheel Covers, Silverstars, 115K
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior, Smokestone Metallic, 96K / 249 Hrs
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior, Black, 133K / 1643 Hrs
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior w/ Carpet, Norsea Blue, 157K / 597 Hrs
-'07 F-150 4x4 - Extended Cab, 3.55's, White w/ Grey interior, 167K
-'14 Fusion S - 160K

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#1451867 - 04/16/08 10:21 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: Fordiesel69]
DuceAnAHalf Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 3147
Loc: Pinellas Park, Fl.
i did the starter on my 97 in about 30 minutes. luckilly it had been done before and whoever did it did not reinstall the third bolt
_________________________

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#1451942 - 04/16/08 11:23 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: DuceAnAHalf]
kustomizingkid Offline
Poobah

Registered: 11/18/06
Posts: 5070
Loc: Minnesota
I also don't understand people issues, mine took 15 out 15 in.
_________________________
2000 CVPI 121,000 miles

1998 Mark VIII Collector's Edition 110,000 miles


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#1451953 - 04/16/08 11:32 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: RWDForever]
MarkLamport Offline
Rookie

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 63
Loc: Peculiar, Missouri
It comes out easy with a 1/4 inch rachet with extention, no need for u joint. I have changed them on CV, GM, and TC with no problem. Good luck
_________________________
2005 Crown Victoria LX Sport

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#1451959 - 04/16/08 11:43 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: MarkLamport]
Rizzo Offline
J-MOD Master
Metroplectic

Registered: 03/06/04
Posts: 29215
Loc: Romulus,MI
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH the 3rd bolt...Its about as useful as a 3rd eye. On your forehead.
_________________________


The Jmod video is done! LINK!

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#1452038 - 04/17/08 01:21 AM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: Rizzo]
SteelCityMarquis Offline
Fomerly 93MGMGS
Over the Hill

Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 1940
Loc: Pittsburgh Area
Did you reinstall the third bolt?
_________________________

2002 Mercury Grand Marquis LS. - 80k GF's Daily Driver
1991 Honda Accord LX Wagon 5 Speed - 258k My Daily Driver
1980 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royal Diesel - 96k

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#1452040 - 04/17/08 01:25 AM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: SteelCityMarquis]
Dan The Vic Man Offline
Poobah

Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 9890
Loc: Coon Rapids MN
 Originally Posted By: 93MGMGS
Did you reinstall the third bolt?
In did when i did mine \:\) now i get to do a motor swap soon and have a 3rd bolt on the starter to look forward too.
_________________________
2012 Ford F150 Ecoboost

1998 mercury Grand Marquis, 58k miles slower than a turtle stock as stock gets

RIP 99 CVPI

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#1452832 - 04/18/08 12:12 AM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: Dan The Vic Man]
SteelCityMarquis Offline
Fomerly 93MGMGS
Over the Hill

Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 1940
Loc: Pittsburgh Area








Only two for me
_________________________

2002 Mercury Grand Marquis LS. - 80k GF's Daily Driver
1991 Honda Accord LX Wagon 5 Speed - 258k My Daily Driver
1980 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royal Diesel - 96k

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#1454219 - 04/19/08 09:01 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: SteelCityMarquis]
keith96p71 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/07
Posts: 205
for me it wasnt the third bolt.. my f150 had that same starter. it was trying to find the right angle to slide it out of there.


Edited by keith96p71 (04/19/08 09:03 PM)

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#1454389 - 04/20/08 03:27 AM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: keith96p71]
FunkRider Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 2514
Loc: Whitecourt, Alberta, Canada
Nothing like my 03 with the updated frame and suspension for a quick 5 minute starter change. ha
_________________________
2008 GMC Sierra Crew Cab 2500HD 6.0 SLT Z71
1970 Chrysler Newport Cordoba 2dr hardtop 383-727-8.75
1970 Chrysler Newport Base 4dr Sedan 383-727-8.75

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#1454837 - 04/20/08 08:23 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: FunkRider]
Eagle_Keeper Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 9
Loc: massachusetts USA
I got a stupid "Snake Driver" screwdriver handle, 1/4" dr. flex shaft Taiwan thing from my mother-in law 4 yrs. ago for x-mas. After collecting dust since then-I finally had the light go on in my gourd to try and use it. Ten minutes later the frigging starter was out and in my hot little hands for a bendix spring replacement....go figger.....The screw driver handle and flex shaft worked great after I got the top bolt started coming out with my Snap-on 1/4" ratchet and numerous extensions. same on putting it in....

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#1641906 - 12/18/08 04:11 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: Eagle_Keeper]
Great_Wun Offline
Rookie

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Central Florida
If I was to use the extensions to remove the bolts, do I still have to remove the a/c compressor to get the extensions through? Its been 2 hours and im still stuck on the second bolt.

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#1643024 - 12/19/08 11:06 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: Great_Wun]
Corsair Offline

Member

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 376
Loc: Port Wentworth,Ga
I did mine today, again....gear kept bouncing on my flywheel...weak springs..2nd AZ starter this yr. Grrrr.... I just pull the solenoid off mine, turn the flywheel a little to keep tension on nose gear so I can slip solenoid plunger into cradle, and whala! tis done...on average it takes about 40mi to do it this way as you have to undo the wires on the solenoid, but its worked for me so far. At least for another 6mths I guess....
_________________________
2001 CVPI, 3.27, LED spotlight, J-Mod, plus a few bells & whistles.

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#1643178 - 12/20/08 10:02 AM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: Corsair]
Fordiesel69 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 4399
Loc: Erie, PA
 Originally Posted By: Corsair
I did mine today, again....gear kept bouncing on my flywheel...weak springs..2nd AZ starter this yr. Grrrr.... I just pull the solenoid off mine, turn the flywheel a little to keep tension on nose gear so I can slip solenoid plunger into cradle, and whala! tis done...on average it takes about 40mi to do it this way as you have to undo the wires on the solenoid, but its worked for me so far. At least for another 6mths I guess....


People mention to take off the solenoid, how do you get to the bolts to loosen it? Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.
_________________________
rant2 ******Need your heater core replaced? Click Here******rant2
-'99 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.55 Trac-Loc(DK), Cloth Interior, Black Honeycomb Grill, Black PI Trunk Bezel, Silverstars, 183K
-'00 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.55 (R2), Cloth Interior, Black PI Trunk Bezel, 03+ Full Wheel Covers, Silverstars, 115K
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior, Smokestone Metallic, 96K / 249 Hrs
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior, Black, 133K / 1643 Hrs
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior w/ Carpet, Norsea Blue, 157K / 597 Hrs
-'07 F-150 4x4 - Extended Cab, 3.55's, White w/ Grey interior, 167K
-'14 Fusion S - 160K

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#1643207 - 12/20/08 10:45 AM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: Fordiesel69]
mrbear5300 Offline
professional grade
Poobah

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 5059
Loc: BUF
Ughh, so i have this to look forward to when I possibly pull the motor soon? Lovely.
_________________________


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#1643337 - 12/20/08 02:19 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: mrbear5300]
Corsair Offline

Member

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 376
Loc: Port Wentworth,Ga
on the back of the solenoid are 2 screws, torx head. t30 i think, cant remember...blow the debris out of the holes first , loosen...then undo the wires running to solenoid...assuming you unhooked the batt first so you dont get electrocuted first..take off the nut above where the starter wire was, sliding the small contact wire behind it off the threads and pushing aside. unscrew the bolts on back of solenoid...only thing easy to get to, esp if you've removed factory double cats and have installed a single highflow. anyway, after screws are out of way, which are easy to strip out, gently lift the solenoid out and up to disengage the solenoid plunger from the cradle in the starter housing. the bolts holding the starter are right there, easy as you please. once you get the starter, you'll understand how simple it is. install with solenoid out, push the nose gear into flywheel and turn flywheel a little to keep tension on nosegear as you try to slide plunger into the cradle. otherwise, it'll wiggle back and forth, causing you many hours of fun. trust me. again, it's really easy to do it this way, just get the new starter first, take its solenoid off and you'll know how to take it off on starter in vechicle.
_________________________
2001 CVPI, 3.27, LED spotlight, J-Mod, plus a few bells & whistles.

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#1643429 - 12/20/08 05:26 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: Corsair]
koolaid6666 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 169
Loc: LI,NY
Took Me Two Days to Do It.The third Bolt Was no problem To Get Too The Second bolt strip On Me Tried everything couldn't get it out Had to dremel the second bolt Out.
_________________________
2007 Black P71
2003 Green p74
1991 Crown Victoria
1999 Green SAP-Part Car




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#1643447 - 12/20/08 05:48 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: Great_Wun]
patgizz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 383
Loc: cleveland
i bought one of the husky 1/4" drive ratchets with the positionable head(it can be staight, 45, or 90 degrees to the handle either to the left or right and the handle is as long as a normal 3/8 drive). it got the job done with no removal of anything else.

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#1643459 - 12/20/08 06:24 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: patgizz]
GaryinVT Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 3176
Loc:
I, too, didn't have a huge problem with the stater on my '03.

I hit the bolts with PBlaster penetrating oil for a couple days beforehand.
Used 1/4", not 3/8" ratchet with all my extensions. Maybe 12-16"? I think using a 1/4" ratchet makes a big difference.
Got all 3 bolts out, but only put the 2 easier ones back in, as many people do.
I almost started to cross thread one of the bolts putting it back in, due to not holding the starter flat against the block. That's easy to do, it's heavy!
_________________________

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#2590107 - 09/03/12 10:51 AM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: GaryinVT]
10_8 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 4
Loc: WI
OK, so does the '97 have a removeable solenoid?

If I can get the starter out, I'd have better access to the ground plate the cables are connected to at the back of the motor: trying to get this project figured out.

In the last 2 years I've done alternator, starter, and battery. 1997 with 180K miles. Now, I've got a no-start condition again-just a click. I'd liek to get this straightened out before snow flies....thanks for any insights...

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#2590535 - 09/04/12 12:59 AM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: RWDForever]
ShireHorse Offline
Climber

Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 511
Loc: Evansville, IN
Originally Posted By: RWDForever
I hope the newer 2003+ models with the redesigned front frame is better than this design.


I can confirm that. It's harder to jack up the car than it is to remove the starter on 2003+.

Also, holy thread necromancy, batman.

~Shire
_________________________


2006 P71, Ohio State Highway Patrol, Cocaine White. 393k mi

Member: 06+ CVPI wheel cover club

OIF 08

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#2590569 - 09/04/12 02:01 AM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: RWDForever]
03RedVicSport Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/02/10
Posts: 2283
Loc: Central NY
I've had mine out & replaced it and then out again for the build, and it is a precision operation.

Not IMPOSSIBLE, but it's a trick!

2 out of 3 of those bolts are OK, the top invisible one is a challenge.

You need to use a certain length 10mm socket & extension, so the ratchet handle hangs off just over the end of the motor can, and there's one certain position where you can JUST get a finger on the bolt head to help guide the socket to it as you feed the thing in blind.
_________________________
"All This Has Happened Before And Will Again"

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#2597814 - 09/17/12 06:49 PM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: RWDForever]
silkystylz Offline
Rookie

Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 95
Loc: Colorado Springs
My lil trick. when i swapped my motor i took my cut off tool to the trans and engine block ears on the right side. trust me it was worth the 3min it took and i will never have to fight that bolt again.

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#2601383 - 09/25/12 09:34 AM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: RWDForever]
10_8 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 4
Loc: WI
Cool, thanks for the positive and productive replies.

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#2601428 - 09/25/12 11:27 AM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: 10_8]
WikiWonders Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 15
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: 10_8
OK, so does the '97 have a removeable solenoid?


FWIW, it does have a removable solenoid. t-25 bit. when pulling my starter, these were hopelessly seized and just stripped. I used a stubby 1/4 ratchet to get the middle bolt loose, and a few extensions and a u-joint to get the top one loose. not that bad once you figure out how to route the extensions.

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#2601848 - 09/26/12 02:34 AM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: RWDForever]
Drac Offline

Cpt. Smug
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 3345
Loc: Cali
funny... i can pull the starter out in my 2004 in like 10 minutes lol. having the right sockets/elbows/size extensions is a lifesaver.
_________________________

2004 Crown Victoria finished in Dark Pearl Blue Metallic (DX) | Ported M122 powered DOHC conversion with all supporting mods. Dyno queen.
2010 BMW M5 V10 finished in Monaco Blue Metallic with 2-tone interior | Eisemann race exhaust | Lowered On Dinan coilovers. Daily Driver

BlueVic's DOHC Supercharged Build.
Bluevic's 1,000 RWHP Returnless Fuel System.
2009+ Window/Lock/Mirror Control Switches Retrofit.
Mercury Cougar Trunk Switch Retrofit.








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#2601876 - 09/26/12 05:10 AM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: RWDForever]
2004_p71 Offline

no replacement for displacement
Posting Addict

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 15591
Loc: Quebec Canada
I did it on my 97 few month ago fand it was a pita also because all 3 bolts were seized.
I managed to take it out by removing the solenoid too.

I did replace it again last night with a reman from ford and not an auto part unit that last abouth a year nono The fors uniot was 50$ cheaper , way better quality and spins way faster laugh

With a 1/4 ratchet a long socket and extention it can be done but since I cleaned all the threads last time I could turn with my fingers all the bolts and then just tighten them with the ratchet.

It is defitnaly easier on the 03+ cars for sure
_________________________


new best time 13.079 @ 105 1.8 60'

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#2601882 - 09/26/12 06:09 AM Re: The starter is a PAIN to replace. [Re: RWDForever]
DavidVT Offline
Climber

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 649
Loc: VT
Had to do mine in the dirt driveway at work after leaving it all weekend for a wedding trip.
No fun after maintaining a diesel pickup for a decade with lots of ground clearance. But at least it was an 03 Vic....

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