Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! registry | CVN on Facebook | tech | news | email login Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure!


Welcome to CVN - Your Panther platform headquarters!


Custom Search


Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#1537235 - 08/10/08 08:08 PM When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far...
Nathan_in_MN Offline
Rookie

Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 52
Loc: Wyoming, MI
First off, I'd like to thank luv-my-2002-p71 and dRock96Marquis for putting together such a good writeup on timing chain tensioner replacement in the BOK. Unfortunately, I discovered the information just a bit too late for my dad, whose '01 has been making the dreaded "grinding sewing machine" noise for several weeks. He was driving home from work on Friday and suddenly lost oil pressure (this not 24 hours after I had figured out what the problem was and what could happen if it wasn't taken care of). We got it pulled apart this weekend, and the carnage was pretty great.

Here are my questions: In the first picture, the circled part is the pin that mounts the top tensioner arm on the driver's side. As you can see, the chain wore it about halfway through. We'd definitely like to replace that pin, but is it pressed in? If so, is there any good way to replace it or do we have to get creative?


Next, this picture shows where the chain has worn away a significant portion of the oil pump case. If you look closely, it almost looks as if it's worn through at one point. Is the upper, cylindrically-shaped portion the pressure relief valve? That's the spot where we think it may be worn through, and obviously, if it is, it will let all the oil pressure out. That, of course, means replacing the oil pump, which necessitates removal of the chains. Where do I buy the specialty tools for timing the engine after replacement of the chains, and will we have to take out a second mortgage on the house to pay for them?



And now, some more pictures of the carnage for your sadistic pleasure:





Thanks in advance, everyone.

--Nathan
_________________________

2001 Ford Crown Victoria P71 "The Fire Engine"

Quondo Omni Flunkus Moritati

Top
Links
#1537286 - 08/10/08 09:30 PM Re: When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far... [Re: Nathan_in_MN]
Corsair Offline

Member

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 376
Loc: Port Wentworth,Ga
You can normally find the cam tools on ebay.do a search for rotunda toolkit or tkit, that should bring them up. their made by OTC so you can buy them brand new from vendors. i would replace the oil pump. better safe than sorry, and if it is messed up, putting it together and having to pull apart again is a learning experiance. the pin, have no idea...have yet to open mine up yet.
_________________________
2001 CVPI, 3.27, LED spotlight, J-Mod, plus a few bells & whistles.

Top
#1537334 - 08/10/08 10:48 PM Re: When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far... [Re: Corsair]
bjorkmae Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 11/22/07
Posts: 1644
Loc: Chicago Area, IL
I got my PI cams from an engine that did just that and ended up breaking some valves, the people junked the car and I got the heads for the PI cams. It had 290k + miles on it when it finally broke.
_________________________
2004 LX, Aluminum drive shaft, dual exhaust, MZT, 3.27 limited slip-pretty basic

Sold:
SUPERCHARGED 1998 CVPI with 2001 5.4 PI swap, V2 S-trim Vortech @ 8PSI, 2.5" duals with X-pipe & a lot of other goodies.



Top
#1537340 - 08/10/08 10:55 PM Re: When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far... [Re: bjorkmae]
Michigansquadcar Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 4910
Loc: Southeast michigan
You may want to consider installing a used engine in the car. If you lost pressure, you run the risk of damaging the rod/main bearings. If you decide to repair your engine, the oil pan will need to be dropped to clean the pickup screen.

Top
#1537342 - 08/10/08 10:58 PM Re: When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far... [Re: Michigansquadcar]
bjorkmae Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 11/22/07
Posts: 1644
Loc: Chicago Area, IL
+1^ with that kind of metal flying around and running the car without oil pressure, even for a short while, will cause damage to the engine. You might get it back together and have it run fine for a few thousand miles but then it will start having problems.
_________________________
2004 LX, Aluminum drive shaft, dual exhaust, MZT, 3.27 limited slip-pretty basic

Sold:
SUPERCHARGED 1998 CVPI with 2001 5.4 PI swap, V2 S-trim Vortech @ 8PSI, 2.5" duals with X-pipe & a lot of other goodies.



Top
#1537543 - 08/11/08 10:28 AM Re: When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far... [Re: bjorkmae]
Chevyguy Offline

Poobah

Registered: 01/05/04
Posts: 9449
Loc: Winchester Mass
Survey says

REPLACE THE MOTOR

The 4.6 laws of physics are Good used motors run $600 - $1000 or so

Before tearing into the motor consider the miles it already has, and the DAMAGE it just endured. Lather rinse repeat
_________________________
2004 MarauderM79 155K miles Jmod!! Rockin Stock tune Daily, Muscle Merc tune for track 14.85 @95.63
2004 Crown Vic LX SOLD!!

New Daily 2016 Dodge Charger R/T Road and track, purchase with 16K now 23K after 3 months. 5.7 Hemi, 8 speed ZF trans 3.06 open rear 13.98 @ 99.2 mph 4740 lbs with driver!!

R.I.P Photobucket 10 years of hosting down the drain

Project car 74 Chevy Laguna type S-3, # match 400 SBC

Previous rides
93 P-71 2001 P-73, 94 TC Exec, 96 TC Signature, 04 LX

Top
#1537586 - 08/11/08 11:47 AM Re: When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far... [Re: Michigansquadcar]
luv-my-2002-p71 Offline
4v swap + Full Rauder Everything
Over the Hill

Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 4128
Loc: New York
 Originally Posted By: Michigansquadcar
You may want to consider installing a used engine in the car. If you lost pressure, you run the risk of damaging the rod/main bearings. If you decide to repair your engine, the oil pan will need to be dropped to clean the pickup screen.


Hey sorry you found it too late. How many miles are on it?
_________________________
03 300A Ported uppper/lower | SW Longtubes | Borla ProXS | Magnaflow muffled X pipe | Circle D Pro series TC | J-Mod | MSD Cops | Kinsler | 255lph | Dyno tune | 3.73s | Trick flow cover | MMC shaft | 13.8 @ 99 N/A
08 MGM LS 17k! (13K in Aug-16) New daily driver | Loaded Black/Black leather, heated | remote start | factory security glass |Air Ride | Wood leather wheel | 2.73 RAR! | Borla Catback dual kit with H pipe

Top
#1538021 - 08/11/08 11:05 PM Re: When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far... [Re: luv-my-2002-p71]
Nathan_in_MN Offline
Rookie

Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 52
Loc: Wyoming, MI
It has about 128,000 miles on it. We're figuring on having to replace the mains and rods; looks like the easiest way to get the pan off would probably be to drop the transmission so that's out of the way, and then just take out the pan bolts and slide the pan right out. Thoughts on that method? Any tips? An engine replacement may be a better method, but if it's feasible to just repair the engine we've got, it would be preferred.

Any more thoughts on where to find the timing tools? Does anyone perhaps have a set they'd like to unload for a reasonable sum?
_________________________

2001 Ford Crown Victoria P71 "The Fire Engine"

Quondo Omni Flunkus Moritati

Top
#1538033 - 08/11/08 11:19 PM Re: When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far... [Re: Nathan_in_MN]
JWhittaker Offline
Climber

Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 986
Loc: Seekonk, Ma
Oh boy that is some of the worst carnage I have seen on the whole timing chain issue...I agree with everyone above you must clean the oil pan from all the debris that is pleathered with.. Good luck with everything, check on a used engine as well.
_________________________
2002 CV LX Sport
Speed Bleeders installed with the new brakes!10/07-brakes 85K at the time
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2382004080/

Top
#1538281 - 08/12/08 10:23 AM Re: When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far... [Re: JWhittaker]
Michigansquadcar Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 4910
Loc: Southeast michigan
In order to replace the mains, the engine will need to be pulled. By the time you purchase chains, tensioners, guides, arms, oil pump, rod/main bearings, you will be better off spending that money on a used engine. To much risk of the engine taking a poop after having all that metal running through it.

Top
#1538938 - 08/12/08 10:57 PM Re: When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far... [Re: Michigansquadcar]
Nathan_in_MN Offline
Rookie

Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 52
Loc: Wyoming, MI
Isn't it possible to work around the crossmember to replace the main bearings, or is there just way too much in the way?

We got the starter out tonight. Whew! That's a project in and of itself!
_________________________

2001 Ford Crown Victoria P71 "The Fire Engine"

Quondo Omni Flunkus Moritati

Top
#1539012 - 08/13/08 12:52 AM Re: When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far... [Re: Nathan_in_MN]
bjorkmae Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 11/22/07
Posts: 1644
Loc: Chicago Area, IL
Starter is easy once you learn the tricks, but took me a long time the first time too. You can pull the pan from underneath but you have to lift the engine up off the mounts to do it for clearance around the cross member IIRC. So there should be room. The point really is that other damage could have been done by now and not just to the bearings. The oil pump could be damaged from the metal going through it, the cams could be damaged from lack of oil and how do you know that the chain hasn't skipped a few teeth during this. If the timing chain skipped you likely have bent or broken valves. No way to tell without a compression test and you need the starter in place and good timing chain guides for that as well. So yes you could fix it a probably get it to run right for a while, assuming no bent/broken valves, but it would likely only be a matter of time until the engine had more trouble.
_________________________
2004 LX, Aluminum drive shaft, dual exhaust, MZT, 3.27 limited slip-pretty basic

Sold:
SUPERCHARGED 1998 CVPI with 2001 5.4 PI swap, V2 S-trim Vortech @ 8PSI, 2.5" duals with X-pipe & a lot of other goodies.



Top
#1539094 - 08/13/08 07:44 AM Re: When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far... [Re: bjorkmae]
Chevyguy Offline

Poobah

Registered: 01/05/04
Posts: 9449
Loc: Winchester Mass
The ENTIRE BLOCK would need to be flushed out if you really want to keep the current motor.

If you just replace the bearings, there is TONS of debris inside all the oil passages in the crank heads block etc...

The debris will end up damaging the bearings, and worse the cam rides directly on the heads so the "bearing surface" will get scored.

REPLACE THE MOTOR WITH A $600 low mile used unit!!!!!!111!!1

http://www.car-part.com Look there I found like 30 2001+ to choose from in my area
_________________________
2004 MarauderM79 155K miles Jmod!! Rockin Stock tune Daily, Muscle Merc tune for track 14.85 @95.63
2004 Crown Vic LX SOLD!!

New Daily 2016 Dodge Charger R/T Road and track, purchase with 16K now 23K after 3 months. 5.7 Hemi, 8 speed ZF trans 3.06 open rear 13.98 @ 99.2 mph 4740 lbs with driver!!

R.I.P Photobucket 10 years of hosting down the drain

Project car 74 Chevy Laguna type S-3, # match 400 SBC

Previous rides
93 P-71 2001 P-73, 94 TC Exec, 96 TC Signature, 04 LX

Top
#1539179 - 08/13/08 10:25 AM Re: When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far... [Re: Chevyguy]
2kGM Offline
Member

Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 408
Loc: NW Virginia, USA
Yeah, if yours has 128,000 on it I'd get a donor engine out of a yard, do the timing chain on that, and drop it in. Flushing all the metal filings out of the block isn't going to be any easier than swapping the whole lump anyway.
_________________________

1999 Grand Marquis LS HPP with PI intake manifold, mild J-mod, Class III hitch, KYB PI shocks.
2000 Grand Marquis GS with no options and mild J-mod - Sold to Father-in-law

Top
#2576829 - 08/11/12 03:14 AM Re: When Bad Timing Chain Tensioners Go Too Far... [Re: Nathan_in_MN]
tigman5356 Offline
Rookie

Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 50
Loc: brookings SD
junk it!!
_________________________
2006 light metallic blue cvpi 113000 miles 3.27 gears trac lock
2000 white cvpi 109xxx miles, 2005 cvpi engine swap done!!
94 cvpi R.I.P.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Who's Online
3 registered (hot__box, Old_Guy_Stu, 1 invisible), 58 Guests and 259 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
bluejay_32 161
a_d_a_m 106
Old_Guy_Stu 102
DudeAbides 54
Moby_Vic 51
CrystalPistol 48
TheCableGuy 43
RF_Overlord 43
Ponyguy 41
Rainbowpizza 36
Member Spotlight
Member Since: 11/11/01
Posts: 1288





Copyright 2000-2015 by Crownvic.net and Steve Spaulding. All Rights Reserved.
The photographs, graphics and data contained in this Web site are the properties of the contributors, or Crownvic.net and may not be used without expressed written consent.
Crownvic.net is not affiliated with the Ford motor company.

Happily consuming the fuel saved by Prius owners!