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#1790510 - 06/14/09 02:49 PM 5.4 Swap FAQ's
Bondfreak13 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 4613
Loc: Ventura County, CA.
For those interested in the 5.4 swap you may want to read this. A while Back I said I was going to compile a list of FAQís and parts for the 5.4 swappers. Well here it is. I guessing Iím with everyone else in saying that, Iím tired of seeing the same 5.4 questions pop up. Hopfuly this will cut down on the number of 5.4 posts that seem to be popping up. So Admins Please Sticky this.

Also, this list is going to be under constant revision. As I gather more information and as more questions get asked, Iíll post the Q&A here. Also once I start swapping my motor Iíll also update this with a few Technical tips.

I have been told that I need to change my intake when I swap my 5.4 what are my options?
Well your options are simple really. You might be able to use the stock intake with a cowl (see next question posted below) or you can use a 4.6 intake with adapter plates. There is only one aftermarket 5.4 intake that was made to fit under the hood of a car, and thatís the HPS 5.4 intake.

Intake options:
Any 4.6 intake. Prices Very anywhere from $100-1000+

Some Examples are
Trick Flowís Track Heat Intake
BBKís 4.6 Dual Stage Intake
Professional Products Typhoon Intake
Edelbrockís Victor Jr. 4.6 EFI Intake
HPSís 4.6 Hardballer Intake
Reichard Racing 4.6 Intake
Fox Lake P-51 Intake

Adapter plates. http://www.modularmustangracing.com/prod_sohc.htm
Normally they run around $300 you may be able to find the less on some sites. (Like on the above given link)

HPS 5.4 intake http://www.hiperformancesolutions.com/54.html
$695

But be warned the 4.6 intake with adapter plates is taller than the HPS 5.4 intake.

Here are some pics from the mustang guys.

This is the 4.6 PI intake with the Adapter plates. See how far above the intake sticks out over the alternator?

This is the HPS 5.4 intake. Look at how much lower it is because it doesnít have those adapter plates.



I have been told that the 5.4ís that came in the vans have a shorter intake than the F-150ís is this true and will it fit under the hood? And if it doesnít canít I just get a cowl?

I thought the same as well but after much research I come to believe the truck and van intake are the same. I have looked at many F-150 truck intakes and van intakes. Canít see a difference. I donít know if the stock intake will fit but I did take some measurements that should prove informational.

Here you can see both the Stock 5.4 intake and the HPS 5.4 intake


Here is the stock intake sitting on the heads my motor came with. You can see the ruler in the background.




Here is the HPS 5.4 intake on the same heads.



The HPS is 2 inches shorter than the stock intake. So I guess with the stock intake you could use a cowl hood. But remember the measurements I took were without the plenum.

I wish I could have used a 4.6 with the adapter plates but I didnít have a 4.6 intake and I wasnít about to go tearing my Vic apart. The plates are about an inch tall so add an inch on to what was used above as a very ruff guide.

But if you want to use a cowl:
Cowl hood

I'm swapping the motor but what about my accessories? Will they fit?
As far as I know all the accessories swap over from your 4.6.
NOTE:
(However, I was told about some 4.6ís having a long water pump and a short water pump. I donít know how that would change anything, but it would be nice to look into.)

Do I have to make custom motor mounts?
No the 5.4 will bolt up to the 4.6 motor mounts.

What kind of exhaust headers can I use?
Shorties for the most part, unless you have a 03+ car, but due to the taller deck height and the fact the motor is a little bit wider itís unknown if the Kooks long tubes will still fit.
There have been rumors that SLP long tubes can be used on Pre 03 cars, but it has not yet been confirmed.
Or you can get a custom set made, but then your talking big bucks

They don't seem to sell any aftermarket 5.4 stuff?
They do for the Lighting, but yes itís hard to find. Luckily, unless youíre talking about the rotating assembly, you can use stuff off a 4.6. The cylinder heads are the same. As is most of the motor.
But if your looking for some valve train stuff here is good start
Manley Performance

What kind of gains will I get/ will I see?
For a Crown Vic we donít really know yet. The 5.4 is rated higher than the 4.6.

5.4 2v were rated at 260hp and 350tq.
The 4.6 2v were rated at 260hp and 301Tq (Mustang)

The Panther platform where less, around 230hp and 280tq for the PI motors, P71ís are closer to 250. (According to Ford) and 200-215hp and 270tq for NPI.

But I do have some power numbers from the Mustang board.

This is from the mustang board (NOTE: all power number are at the wheels.)

Saleen S 330:
Power/Tq: 289/361 (imperfect tune)
Shortblock: Stock 03 5.4L F150
Pistons: Stock Rods: Stock Crank: Stock
Cams: Stock
Heads: Patriot Stage 2
Intake: PI w/ Reichard Racing adapter plates
Exhaust: FRPP shorty

r3dn3ck:
Power/Tq: 279/332 (rich & -timing)
Pistons: Probe SRS -4.5cc
Rods: 3D H-beam w/ arp 2K bolts
Heads: Fox Lake Stage 2
Intake: HPS 4.6 Hardball'r w/ Reichard plates
Exhaust: FRPP Shorties
Cams: Comp XE270ah-13

Mean330
Shortblock: Stock '02 F150 5.4 2V
Pistons:stock Crank:stock Rods:stock
Cams: Comp XE270AH
Heads: Patriot stage 2
Intake: Stock PI w/ Reichard adapters
Exhaust: Stock manifolds to BBK off road X
Power/Trq: 290/340 (mustang dyno)
http://mustangboards.com/dyno-results/26534-5-4l-swap-dyno-results-here.html

This is just an idea of what you can expect to see.

If you going from an NPI 4.6 to a PI 5.4 your looking at a 55-60hp gain and a 80 more lbs-ft of torque.

Also when Espy did is 97 Town Car it was rated at 257 RWHP and 318 RWTQ. The problem is his 4500lbs Town Car ran a 13.97 @ 94 MPH. So I think the dyno was off by quite a bit.

http://www.supermotors.net/registry/16549

http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/582024

We also had a Member named Dazed Ďn Confused V8 that had a 5.4 with a Vortec on his 2000 CV. Ran low 12ís all day long on it. Unknown what else was done to the engine.

Do I have to use a 5.4 computer or will my 4.6 computer work?
Will the 4.6ís computer run the 5.4, however a tune will be needed for the best engine efficiency.

What do I need to set my Rev limiter at?
Unless your 5.4 is built to take higher RPMís I would not push the stock internals past 5500.

Can I use a 4.6 cam or do I have to use a 5.4 cam?
The cylinder heads are the same, so either cam will fit. But the 5.4 cams that are on the market are made for better towing, or for the supercharged Lightings. I have seen the 4.6 cams used with some success but it is believed that a custom grind would be your best bet.

Will a 5.4 Fit in an Aero body?
Why not? Unless the engine compartment was way different in the 92-97 cars. Espy had a 97 Town Car and he has a 5.4. So I would have to say yes it would fit.

My Aero as OBD I, will that still work with a 5.4?

I honestly donít know so I couldnít answer that. Everyone I have seen doing the swap has a OBD II car.

How much more does the 5.4 weigh compared to the 4.6?

There is about a 30-pound difference in Block weight

Iím building a High Performance 5.4, what kind of crankshaft do you recommend?

Check the year of the 5.4 you have. Some came with Forged steel cranks. If your 5.4 has a steel crank, save your money for another mod.

What is the stock injector size for the 5.4ís?

5.4ís came stock with 19lbs, unless it was a SVT Lightning

Will the Lightning Motor fit in my car?
Will the motor physically fit? Yes. Will you be able to close the hood? No.
The 5.4 with the supercharger is too tall to fit under the hood. Luckily I have pics so I can show you.









As you can see the Wipple Supercharger makes it a little easier to fit under the hood. But it still sticks out.

Can I keep my old exhaust setup from my 4.6 when I install my 5.4?
It depends really. If you have an H-pipe all you have to do is cut the H and extent it a bit. Remember the 5.4 is wider by a little bit.

If you have an X-pipe, I really donít know. I guess depending on where you have the X located you can cut before the X and lengthen the tubes so you donít have to mess with your X setup.

What kind of gears should I get?
Thatís up to you. If your looking to do the swap just so you can have a better Daily Driver I say stay with the 2.73ís. If your looking for Performance, then itís personal choice. But remember, The 5.4ís make torque. So while you needed a 4.10 to get the 4.6 into itís power band more quickly, you donít need so much gear with the 5.4. Iím not saying donít get 4.10ís just make sure you can hook up. Other wise itís going to be spin city for you.

What kind of power adder can I get for my 5.4?

Just like with the 4.6 the choices are endless. If your looking for a manifold mounted supercharger, like on the Lightning, chances are itís not going to fit under the hood without a cowl or a hole (See above pics) You can buy the needed parts to make any 5.4 into a Lightning motor. The only OEM supercharger for the 5.4 2v is the one off the F-150 Lightning.

You can use Tork Tech's M112 or the Magnuson TVS1900 supercharger with a spacer. But your going to have hood clearance issues.

You can get Centrifugal Supercharger as well, Paxton, and Vortech come to mind,
It shouldnít be to hard to make of the 4.6 kits to fit. They do sell 5.4 kits but I have no idea how hard it would be to get it to fit under the hood.
Paxton 5.4
Paxton 4.6
Vortech 5.4
Vortech 4.6

If you want to go turbo, even with the 4.6, your going to have to make your own kit. But here is a starting point. You can always search junk yards or E-Bay for used turbos.
http://www.ststurbo.com/

The easy power adder seems to be good ole N20. Just hook up a bottle and a 150 shot and call it a day.


Edited by dRock96Marquis (06/30/09 06:44 PM)
Edit Reason: stickied
_________________________
2003 Mercury Marauder (300AB Stock w/ over 200k miles)
2000 Crown Vic.

Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is knowing not use a tomato in a fruit salad.

If your looking for a large comfortable ride with that Retro Feel without the Retro looks, then the Panther chassis is your Car. It's the best Modern car from 1979 you can buy.

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#1790909 - 06/15/09 12:49 AM Re: 5.4 Swap FAQ's (Please Sticky) [Re: Bondfreak13]
Bondfreak13 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 4613
Loc: Ventura County, CA.
Some cam Ideas for the 5.4. This was posted in another thread.
http://www.modularheadshop.com/Cams.htm#2V_-_STAGE_2_-_NATURALLY_ASPIRATED_
_________________________
2003 Mercury Marauder (300AB Stock w/ over 200k miles)
2000 Crown Vic.

Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is knowing not use a tomato in a fruit salad.

If your looking for a large comfortable ride with that Retro Feel without the Retro looks, then the Panther chassis is your Car. It's the best Modern car from 1979 you can buy.

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#1790913 - 06/15/09 12:56 AM Re: 5.4 Swap FAQ's (Please Sticky) [Re: Bondfreak13]
hotrodjcc Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 2337
Loc: DFW, TX
I went with trick flows 275 duration cams with .580 lift and 114deg lobe seperation.
_________________________
98 cv lx. -sold
2003 Cobra: cold air, catback,2.8in pulley, O/R upr x pipe,Accufab TB/Plenum and hurst shifter only. #5983
2014 Jeep Cherokee 5.7
2008 F-250 King Ranch 6.4 Spartan and deleted
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/profile.php?id=576101863&ref=profile

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#1791015 - 06/15/09 08:01 AM Re: 5.4 Swap FAQ's (Please Sticky) [Re: hotrodjcc]
BennyB747 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 385
Loc: ATL, GA
Bondfreak you might want to add http://www.modmaxracing.com/ under your question about parts for the 5.4, they carry a bunch of performance parts for them including complete rotating assemblies.


Edited by BennyB747 (06/15/09 08:03 AM)
_________________________

2000 CVPI, Former Catoosa County GA Sheriff car. Repainted from Sheriff Brown to Mercedes Benz Black. 20% tint all the way around. Color matched grill, new lights on all 4 corners. Full manifold back 2.5" Custom exhaust with H-pipe, Magna-flow Highflow cats with rear delete, Super 44s, Marauder style tips. Steeda Underdrives, K&N FIPK Intake. 3.55 Rear with a Trac-Loc. 18" Mustang fanblades with custom SVT centers. Bilstein shocks PI and CNG springs, full Moog front end.

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#1791104 - 06/15/09 11:12 AM Re: 5.4 Swap FAQ's (Please Sticky) [Re: BennyB747]
Bondfreak13 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 4613
Loc: Ventura County, CA.
Would love to add that link under that question, only I can't seem to edit my post anymore. There must be a timer set in place so after X number of time goes by you canít edit your post anymore.

But, Thanks for the link Benny.

Hotrod. Since you did the swap any Tech tips you could give us would great. Such as any little thing was hard to do because of the swap. Something you had to change or move because of clearance issues. Also Did you have to reuse the 4.6 oil pan?

I want to try and keep this Thread as an Informational source for anyone on CVN thinking about swapping to a 5.4. If anyone has any useful information, or sites that we can get parts from, please help us out and post something.

For some reason I didn't post links for the sites that sell cams.
Comp Cams
Crower Cams
Trick Flow Cams

P.S. Also for those wanting to build a 4.6 you also might want to check out all the links I have posted, they don't just have 5.4 stuff, they sell a lot 4.6 goodies as well.

I see people swapping the 4.6 DOHC into their Panthers, but I want to swap a 5.4 DOHC into my Panther, will it fit?

It comes down to what year your Panther is. If itís 2002 and older it will take some heavy modding to the engine bay to get that beast between the fenders. The 4.6 DOHC as gone into some 2002 and older cars but it took a lot of work. Someone even has a 4.6 DOHC powered Aero Grand Marquis if I remember right.

In 2003 the Frame got changed for the Mercury Marauder. Which came with a 4.6 DOHC. So if you have a 2003 and newer Panther you can swap the 4.6 DOHC without much trouble. But the 5.4 DOHC is wider than the 4.6 DOHC. So if you wanted a 5.4 DOHC your going to have even less space to work with. No one was done this swap so I donít really know if it will fit. I think it would, but it's going to be really tight.

Here are the engines sizes for all the 4.6 and 5.4 SOHC and DOHC

Engine____________Height__________Depth____________Width
4.6 SOHC_________26 inches_______23 5/8 inches____26 5/8 inches
4.6 DOHC________27 1/8 inches____23 5/8 inches_____26 5/8 inches
5.4 SOHC_________28 inches_______23 5/8 inches_____27 inches
5.4 DOHC________35 1/2 inches____23 5/8 inches____28 1/4 inches



As an uptade to the question asked above (bugs me that I edit the Orginal Post)
How much more does the 5.4 weigh compared to the 4.6?
Just to give you some idea here are the fully assembled (wet) engine Specs for both the 4.6 and 5.4

Engine_______Weight
4.6 SOHC_____500lbs
4.6 DOHC_____425lbs (aluminum block)
5.4 SOHC_____525lbs
5.4 DOHC_____540lbs

Soruce for the sizes and wieght
Moddifed Mustangs and Fords


Edited by Bondfreak13 (06/15/09 04:43 PM)
_________________________
2003 Mercury Marauder (300AB Stock w/ over 200k miles)
2000 Crown Vic.

Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is knowing not use a tomato in a fruit salad.

If your looking for a large comfortable ride with that Retro Feel without the Retro looks, then the Panther chassis is your Car. It's the best Modern car from 1979 you can buy.

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#1791126 - 06/15/09 11:48 AM Re: 5.4 Swap FAQ's (Please Sticky) [Re: Bondfreak13]
hotrodjcc Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 2337
Loc: DFW, TX
I have not yet started my swap, I'm waiting for cylinder heads. I'm half tempted to bolt stock heads in to just get it on the road. I am planning to make lots of pictures when I get on it.
_________________________
98 cv lx. -sold
2003 Cobra: cold air, catback,2.8in pulley, O/R upr x pipe,Accufab TB/Plenum and hurst shifter only. #5983
2014 Jeep Cherokee 5.7
2008 F-250 King Ranch 6.4 Spartan and deleted
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/profile.php?id=576101863&ref=profile

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#1791233 - 06/15/09 02:50 PM Re: 5.4 Swap FAQ's (Please Sticky) [Re: hotrodjcc]
RiceBurnt6 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 5079
Loc: SWMI
This is great. When i decide to buy an 03+ I'll do the 5.4 swap and try to do long tubes. This may be a couple years down the road. But, i should be able to snap a 03+ by sept 09' \:D
_________________________
Originally Posted By: RiceBurnt6
You're getting mad at the content of a thread of which you clicked on? Maybe you need to get a life? Yes?

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#1791308 - 06/15/09 04:50 PM Re: 5.4 Swap FAQ's (Please Sticky) [Re: RiceBurnt6]
nickmckinney Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 285
Loc: Orlando
I would not use the adapter plates to make a 4.6 intake work. It screws up the injector spray pattern and timing as it moves the location of the injector a significant amount from the valve. Get the HPS intake for this swap IMHO.

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#1795069 - 06/20/09 05:26 AM Re: 5.4 Swap FAQ's (Please Sticky) [Re: nickmckinney]
Penfold Offline
n00b

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 11
Bondfreak - Great post! Thanks!

What about transmissions? Does a 5.4 require any trans mods?
_________________________
'04 MGM

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#1795314 - 06/20/09 03:26 PM Re: 5.4 Swap FAQ's (Please Sticky) [Re: Penfold]
Gotts2BMe Offline
Member

Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 246
Loc: Canada
I'm swapping the motor but what about my accessories? Will they fit?

Yes they ALL fit.

What do I need to set my Rev limiter at?

The internals can easily hold up to 6500 rpm. Although you wont see much power beyond 5200 with the stock cams

Can I use a 4.6 cam or do I have to use a 5.4 cam?

ALL PI heads AND cams are the EXACT same whether they are on a 4.6 or 5.4. The 5.4 with stock heads will maybe see about ~10whp from cams. The stock heads do not flow enough to benefit from cams at all.


My Aero is OBD I, will that still work with a 5.4?

Yes it will but your tuning options are limited because you are unable to flash the computer. You will need tuning with a CHIP and not a flashing device.

Iím building a High Performance 5.4, what kind of crankshaft do you recommend?

ALL 5.4L's from 97-01 had a forged crank. All lightnings that the forged crank and all navigators as well had the forged crank. 02-04 their was a 50% chance that the crank was forged.



Also if you are building a high performance 5.4 (500+ rwhp) you should be looking at getting the NVH block. The NVH block can handle 1100+rwhp. The NVH block as found in 01+ Lightnings and all 5.4's 03 and up. Yes a block from the 04+ 3v will work as well.
_________________________
1995 Lincoln Town Car - 5.4 swap, no cats, true dual magnaflow, trac loc, 4 link, ported intake, SCT tuning

2000 F150 5.4 - Long Tube headers, Gotts intake, magnaflow exhaust, UDP's, efans, ported intake, 75mm TB, SCT tuning, 33" Firestone M/T's

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#1795360 - 06/20/09 05:39 PM Re: 5.4 Swap FAQ's (Please Sticky) [Re: Gotts2BMe]
nickmckinney Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 285
Loc: Orlando
 Originally Posted By: Gotts2BMe
Can I use a 4.6 cam or do I have to use a 5.4 cam?

ALL PI heads AND cams are the EXACT same whether they are on a 4.6 or 5.4. The 5.4 with stock heads will maybe see about ~10whp from cams. The stock heads do not flow enough to benefit from cams at all.



I have built a couple 5.4 motors. They need a bigger cam more so than the 4.6 and can fit a bigger/better one than the 4.6 since they have more piston to valve clearance.

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#1795403 - 06/20/09 07:28 PM Re: 5.4 Swap FAQ's (Please Sticky) [Re: nickmckinney]
prodigalson Offline
Banned
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 3167
Loc: Cleveland, OH USA
As far as the TorkTech kit goes, I'm not entirely convinced that hood clearance would be an issue. Their kit relocates the alternator in order to lower the entire intake and, judging from pictures on their site, would save about 4-5" compared to the Lightning and Whipple blowers pictured above. Yes, the 5.4 stands a bit taller but this can be counteracted with Cobra-R motor mounts that should save you 12mm or almost 1/2 an inch.

Although TorkTech recommends a modified hood for the Mustang, which the product is originally designed for, keep in mind that the Mustang hood has a central valley where the Panther hoods are fully crested. Depending on the hood bracing, the inner panel may or may not interfere either (at least where the pulley comes forward. I'm refering to the triangle cutout.) I have not checked this but there may a few extra tenths to work with provided you remove the liner.

There has been a lot of talk about the TorkTech kit on this forum but I have yet to see anyone actually apply it to a Panther platform on either the 5.4 OR a 4.6. Unless someone can verify the install, I would maintain this argument based on the numbers and research I have done.

I would hope someone proves me wrong only because I plan on doing this swap myself in the future.
_________________________
Permanently banned.

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#1795430 - 06/20/09 08:08 PM Re: 5.4 Swap FAQ's (Please Sticky) [Re: prodigalson]
Bondfreak13 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 4613
Loc: Ventura County, CA.
Prodigalson, Someone has done the Tork Tech Kit on a 4.6. But I canít seem to find the thread right now Iíll find it and PM you.

Gotts2BME thanks for the Info, and thanks for clearing up some things. You made some of my old answers sound better. Good luck on the Town Car post any tech tips you feel are important.

And posted above, Iíd go with the HPS 5.4 intake. Because if you have to buy an intake and the spacers you might as well spend the extra 1-200 bucks and get the intake that was made for the swap.


What about transmissions? Does a 5.4 require any trans mods?
Not that I know of. The Bell housings are the same for all the Mod motors, so any 4.6 Tranny will bolt right up.



Edited by Bondfreak13 (06/20/09 08:09 PM)
_________________________
2003 Mercury Marauder (300AB Stock w/ over 200k miles)
2000 Crown Vic.

Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is knowing not use a tomato in a fruit salad.

If your looking for a large comfortable ride with that Retro Feel without the Retro looks, then the Panther chassis is your Car. It's the best Modern car from 1979 you can buy.

Top
#1795769 - 06/21/09 09:53 AM Re: 5.4 Swap FAQ's (Please Sticky) [Re: Bondfreak13]
troyco Offline
Climber

Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 508
Loc: Ontario, Canada
i have a question....what kind of mods need to be done to the windshield wiper housing for clearance? anyone have pics?
_________________________


1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
70mm Aviator throttle body, Professional Products ported upper plenum, STEEDA underdrive pulleys, Auto Meter tach, MSD 8mm wires, MSD coils, 180 thermostat, 17" BULLITT wheels with 245/45/ZR17 Good Year rubber, Blue Oval Industries ceramic coated headers, custom 2.25" cat-back exhaust with x-pipe, Edelbrock SDT mufflers, stainless exhaust tips, Magnaflow Hi-Flow Cats, 21mm HPP rear sway bar
UPCOMING MODS:
Snow tires and an oil change.

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#1795888 - 06/21/09 01:20 PM Re: 5.4 Swap FAQ's (Please Sticky) [Re: RiceBurnt6]
2004_p71 Offline

no replacement for displacement
Posting Addict

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 15763
Loc: Quebec Canada
 Originally Posted By: SeVeN
This is great. When i decide to buy an 03+ I'll do the 5.4 swap and try to do long tubes. This may be a couple years down the road. But, i should be able to snap a 03+ by sept 09' \:D


I had the opportunity last weekend to see at stap a vic with the long tube from kooks....it fit perfectly on a 4.6 but on a 5.4but there might be some cleareance issue with the heater core housing and the steering shaft. on the passenger side the header are quite close from the frame too.
I took lots of pics because i was also wondering if i could do it.
so you will be able to judge by yourself.
I will put them tomorow
_________________________


new best time 13.079 @ 105 1.8 60'

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