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#2241548 - 02/18/11 02:16 PM Cranks strong but won't start
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
My 01 CVPI with 100K started fine yesterday, I turned it around in the driveway the incline is not too steep - front of the car higher. Today it won't start. No codes. Cranks strong with new battery. I do not hear any fuel pump - not sure what to listen for. It has half a tank of gas. The red button-type object in the trunk is still depressed. I cleaned the MAF recently, new plugs, a new coil. Plenty of clean, new oil. The catalytic converter is dead or dying I believe.

Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Marc

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#2241556 - 02/18/11 02:25 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
BigMerc96 Offline

I know nothing
Posting Addict

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 19868
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
Check all the fuses and swap the fuel pump relay w/ another one. there are a few things in these cars you could "borrow" a relay from, I think the a/c uses the same type of relay, can't remember. When you turn the key to run, You should hear the fuel pump whine for a few seconds then stop. also, when you turn the key to "run" the check engine light should come on. If the check engine light won't come on, then the ECU isn't getting power. If you can't hear the fuel pump, then its not getting power or has failed. If the ECU isn't on, obviously it won't be able to prime the fuel pump.
_________________________
-Steve

2006 Audi A6 ~132k miles, stock.
1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~100k miles, slowly acquiring modifications.
1997 Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, cats deleted, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Projector retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit, holistic weight reduction as the parts fall off..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown

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#2241607 - 02/18/11 03:03 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
I swapped the fuel pump relay with 'Relay #1' from under the power distribution fuse box near the battery. I heard the hissing after that.
My car started right up. When I don't have three screaming kids around me I'll swap the relays back to try to verify it was the fuel pump relay.

Many thanks,
Marc

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#2241858 - 02/18/11 09:12 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
BigMerc96 Offline

I know nothing
Posting Addict

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 19868
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
Glad it was something simple, its always a good thing.
_________________________
-Steve

2006 Audi A6 ~132k miles, stock.
1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~100k miles, slowly acquiring modifications.
1997 Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, cats deleted, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Projector retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit, holistic weight reduction as the parts fall off..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown

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#2242511 - 02/19/11 10:37 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
Raybo Offline
Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 483
Loc: Clearwater, Florida
Sorry dude but mine was the same way and it ended up as the fuel pump. Its very very common on these cars. So common the dealer may be out of stock for the pump and you'll have to go autozone.

I suggest you rent for free a fuel pressure gauge from Autozone and hook it to the shrader valve on the intake
and check the fuel pressure. It will tell you its not happy.
You have to force the pump on using the dongle on the drivers side wheel well.

The pisser is it may not even be the pump itself but the pump filter sock gets so nasty & clogged after a few years it starves the pump. Sock is unavailable. You'll see what I mean when you pull it.
_________________________
Sig removed. Read the rules.

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#2242711 - 02/20/11 11:51 AM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
BigMerc96 Offline

I know nothing
Posting Addict

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 19868
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
Let not get ahead of ourselves here, Change the fuel filter if it hasn't been done recently. The service interval on these filters is only 15,000 mi, and driving w/ it clogged for an extended period of time will kill the pump. If the car seems fine after that, I wouldn't think too much into it. If the car still acts funny, then I would get a pressure tester and look farther into it. Relays do go bad, and its a simple fix, thats why it was in my first line of suggestions.
_________________________
-Steve

2006 Audi A6 ~132k miles, stock.
1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~100k miles, slowly acquiring modifications.
1997 Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, cats deleted, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Projector retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit, holistic weight reduction as the parts fall off..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown

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#2257104 - 03/12/11 12:12 AM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
Ok here's the update. I replaced the catalytic converter and have driven about 150 miles with node codes, BUT today at the drop-off/pick-up of my kids elementary school it would not start! Almost the same symptom as before it would crank hard except this time it would kick over but the gas peddle did nothing and it acted like it ran out of gas (half a tank) and just die. I hoped maybe vapor lock so I removed the cap, cranked, no start, replace the cap, cranked, start! I drove home (about 30 miles...don't ask) and after I parked and tried to re-start, no go. I ordered the motorcraft filter from Amazon should be here early next week but I'm thinking maybe Raybo is right.

When the car is running at a speed where I don't have much pressure on the pedal she seems to hesitate.

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#2257342 - 03/12/11 01:28 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
BigMerc96 Offline

I know nothing
Posting Addict

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 19868
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
Next time it does this, Triple prime the fuel system before trying to crank it over. This is accomplished by turning the key to run for 5-10sec then turning it off, wait 30sec then turn it to run again. After the third time you turn it to run, try and start it. If it fires right up, then there is fuel pressure issues, either a clogged filter or a dying pump.
_________________________
-Steve

2006 Audi A6 ~132k miles, stock.
1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~100k miles, slowly acquiring modifications.
1997 Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, cats deleted, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Projector retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit, holistic weight reduction as the parts fall off..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown

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#2257347 - 03/12/11 01:58 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
QuicksterP71 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 2114
Loc: Ma.
now it might be a good time to check the fuel pressure
_________________________

1997 Crown Vic P71 95.000 miles Formerly Mass Correctional Vehicle, Buying a new Vic one part at a time. Ported and polished plenum, 70mm throttle body, Remote starter, Body Work and New Paint Job, 35% window tint, HPP Wheels off a 96, Pioneer deh-1100mp, Pioneer TS-A6882R 6*8, Pioneer Premier TS-A933P 6*9

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#2257551 - 03/12/11 07:44 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
Yes, I'm going to go to autozone and rent their pressure gauge. Is this what I need, so it's about $25 plus a bunch of my time.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Electric-...#ht_17758wt_935

and this one is $30 and comes with a new filter...which I already ordered but I'll need to change it again eventually.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Electric-...es#ht_500wt_956


Edited by OPS03 (03/12/11 07:53 PM)

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#2261640 - 03/18/11 07:26 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
I replaced the fuel filter today. I had problems starting again before filter replacement. BTW Merc, I tried the tripled priming but there was no effect. I didn't hear the pump running then anyway.

After filter replacement I started it about 10x over the course of 30 minutes or so...no problem yet. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and I renewed my AAA membership!

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#2263173 - 03/21/11 12:34 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: Raybo]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
Is this the fuel strainer you're talking about?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270693474637&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT#vi-ilComp

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#2263284 - 03/21/11 03:37 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
Skoles Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 209
Loc: Mass
The people I bought the car from were having the same problem. Here's where I am with it so far:

https://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbth...474#Post2259474
_________________________
2001 CVPI

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#2264876 - 03/23/11 10:27 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
Ok here's the update:

No starting issues (for me) since the fuel filter install. The service guys claimed it would NOT start, then the next morning it did. I have driven all day today stopped and started probably a dozen times with no problem.

I bought a cheap fuel pressure guage from Harbor Freight ($20) and the pressure at the rail was about 9 after priming and about 32 when I turned the car on. Fuel was coming out of the back of the gauge so I think that probably reduces the reading compared to actual pressure. I'll probably return the gauge I don't think they're supposed to leak like that, right? I kept an extinguisher right-there, jic.

No codes but I feel hesitation the service guy said that was because I used the Bosch platinum plugs, I went to autozone and got Motorcraft for $3.50/ea (not bad) and I'll install them as soon as I can, probably Sunday.

I ordered a fuel pump filter there's a youtube video where a guy who seems to know what he's doing shows step-by-step where and what to do to get at it without dropping the tank. If you want the link to the video let me know.

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#2266067 - 03/25/11 08:25 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
The good news: The motorcraft plugs definitely helped with the hesitation issue. I did all 8 in 40 minuttes, 5 min per plug...not bad I think.

The bad news: After I installed the plugs I started and revved the engine and I heard a metallic clanking situation going on under the car on the driver side. It sounded different than the noise the cat made on the passenger side so I suppose my best hope is the muffler is going bad...cheaper than the cat.

More bad news: The car didn't start once today. The pump was not priming. I opened the gas cap and then closed it. I banged on the inertia switch until it tripped and then reset it. I turned the key and it started.


Edited by OPS03 (03/25/11 08:27 PM)

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#2266072 - 03/25/11 08:34 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
TheShadow Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 1645
Loc: SoCal High Desert
That clanking might just be your exhaust hangers, about $5 each (6 of them) 2 on the muffler and 1 on the tailpipe, each side.
_________________________
'95 P71, 5xx,xxx miles, Rebuilt tranny, 2.73. Lives as a cab, and will die as a cab. (Died-FrontEnder)
'96 P71, 640,xxx on original drivetrain. (Now parts car - T-bone & roll)(You should see the roof - A,B & C-pillars chopped on driver side)
New to list: '96 MGM (Nice! @ 35x,xxx), '97 CV P71, '98 CV P71, '00 CV P71, 01 P71 (2 of 'em) '03 CV P71 (Nice so far) (All Ford Zinc Yellow w/Black decals & trim) And the list is growing...........
Taxicab mechanic: I HATE DRIVERS!

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#2266079 - 03/25/11 08:48 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
K, I'll check thanks for the suggestion.

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#2270192 - 04/01/11 01:46 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
The starting problem returned with a vengeance...I'm wondering whether it might be electrical. In any case, I ordered and new pump and pillow filter.

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#2270934 - 04/02/11 06:16 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
When I get the pump my plan is to siphon as much gas as possible into my Expedition, then run the Panther dry in the garage (door open...hehe) then I will take photos and videos as much as possible to document removal of the old pump and install of the new. I'll replace the hangers as well since I'll need to remove them to move the pipes anyway. If anyone here in SoCal wants to help...

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#2271359 - 04/03/11 12:56 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
Harrisons004 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 29
Loc: South OC, California
Where in socal are we talking? Im having kind of similar problems and after trying to fix other things, I am suspecting it is the fuel pump.
_________________________
Black '98 CVPI work in progress. honeycomb grill and a few other little things to start.
Coming soon; Go Rhino! push bumper, New paint, Jmod hopefully, and Headlight Relay upgrade kit.

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#2271692 - 04/03/11 10:44 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
Skoles Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 209
Loc: Mass
In the body of knowledge section about the fuel pump there's a piece mentioned one of the wires chaffing and grounding out at the pump being an issue. Did you check that?
_________________________
2001 CVPI

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#2271943 - 04/04/11 11:04 AM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
Thanks for the suggestion it could very well be a wire that is the type of behavior it has - works great most of the time good pressure, but intermittently doesn't even prime. I have not checked it, but I will.

I had an Ebay code and so I got the Airtex E2471-type pump with filter shipped for $15. Yes, $15. I am going to take the hangers off and then I will be able to move the pipes just enough to get the whole unit out as per the very helpful Youtube video. I'll check all wires and connections, replace at least the pillow filter (worth the $15 right there) and I'll likely replace the pump as well at that point UNLESS I definitely find a bad connection or chaffed wire or something along those lines. Then I'll replace the hangers and then....hopefully move onto the next problem.

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#2272857 - 04/05/11 08:19 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
I check the wires everywhere I could think of -- on the outside of the unit on the tank, in the trunk (found 2 hollow-points), under the seat, behind the seat (nothing there really), changed the Cam pos sensor for the hell of it ($15) checked all fuses. Wow, there is no life coming from that pump. I had my son turn the key as I touched the relay in that box on the drivers side in the engine compartment. I could feel the relay 'kick', I checked all the fuses and swapped some relays in the other box near the battery. Hey - there's a smaller, rectangular box near the box but closer to the firewall with 2 relays in it. What's that all about? Police stuff?

Anyway, I guess I'll roll it down the driveway, push it around to the right direction, and then use my Expedition to push it up the driveway into the garage for the _real_ fun. Pics to follow.

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#2275715 - 04/10/11 01:05 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
wow, these cars run a lot better when they are actaully getting fuel to the engine. I installed the fuel pump, cost $15, I spent more on tools and such. Afterwards I ran for a while then checked everything then went to fill up with gas and put 17.8 gallons in.


Edited by OPS03 (04/10/11 05:40 PM)

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#2277665 - 04/12/11 11:18 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
The fuel pump replacement is complete.

One of the articles in the 'Body of Knowledge': "1992+ Panther fuel pump replacement - by JayP71" was very helpful. Thanks JayP71...
Thanks also to Galaxieman - very good hints there.

My P71 goes vroom vroom again. Nice.

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#2278028 - 04/13/11 02:50 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
NSCVPI Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 404
Loc: Nova Scotia
I had the same problem with my 2005 CVPI a year ago or so and I replaced the fuel pump to fix the problem also. The best price I could find at the time was $400 for a fuel pump and sending unit though.. I guess I got ripped off?

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#2278228 - 04/13/11 08:35 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
OPS03 Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 25
Loc: California
No, it sounds like you bought the whole unit, which includes the float and everything, right? Local Ford dealer quoted me about the same they sell just the whole unit not just the pump. I just purchased a pump, came with the filter and a pigtail (which I didn't use). This is it here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360350557218&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT#ht_2303wt_935

I had a coupon for $10 off. So now my fuel pump problem is solved, BUT the 'mechanic' said my tranny needs major work. I'm not sure I believe him though, I'm getting lurching at about 45mph with low pedal pressure he says the OD gear may be going or something internal is f'd up. I'm hoping it's just a switch or sensor on the outside.

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#2609617 - 10/11/12 06:34 AM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: BigMerc96]
Jay28660 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 6
Loc: Garden City, MI
Originally Posted By: BigMerc96
Check all the fuses and swap the fuel pump relay w/ another one. there are a few things in these cars you could "borrow" a relay from, I think the a/c uses the same type of relay, can't remember. When you turn the key to run, You should hear the fuel pump whine for a few seconds then stop. also, when you turn the key to "run" the check engine light should come on. If the check engine light won't come on, then the ECU isn't getting power. If you can't hear the fuel pump, then its not getting power or has failed. If the ECU isn't on, obviously it won't be able to prime the fuel pump.

How can you test if the ECU isnt getting power? I am having a starting issue and I dont have any dash lights coming on but the car will crank. Headlights and taillights work but no start. How can you diagnose an ECU? where is it?

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#2609687 - 10/11/12 11:00 AM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
GrandMarq9807 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 4420
Loc: Virginia
No CEL while ign on/cranking generally equals loss of power to the PCM...
_________________________
1998 Grand Marquis LS. 96K mi. .. Stock
2007 Grand Marquis GS. 90K mi. .. Stock
1996 F-150 XLT 196K mi Beater, Stock

----------My Toys---------(links are up)
1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 4-Speed
1972 Comet GT Restomod 306, C4
1988 Turbo Coupe 331 AOD & 3.73 .. Pressurized ½ Motor is History

*****************NEW TOY!!!*********************
1969 Base Fairlane 302, C4, 45K mi(really!)

Now with P/S & PDB
Gonna wake it up with a Blue Print headed 347




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#2609769 - 10/11/12 01:32 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
jdebert Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 173
Loc: Monterey CA
That link,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360350557218&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT#ht_2303wt_935

is delisted. No can see.

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#2770316 - 10/25/13 01:17 PM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
concordtom Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 4
Loc: Concord, CA

ATTENTION: IS IT YOUR "PATS" KEY?
I have a potential easy (and overlooked) solution for all you "crank won't start" people!

I bought our 99 Crown Vic a year ago from a distant cousin. It was in excellent shape, 75k miles. Wife commuter. One morning, she took the kids to school, came back for 15 min., then went to leave for work. Cranked good and strong but wouldn't fire up.

I read and looked into many of the suggestions in these user forms online - no need to repeat all the possible solutions already discussed here. Sometimes the car would start and sometimes not. This went on for 3 weeks while I stupidly tinkered. Eventually, my wife had an Ah Ha that the car was able to start with two of the three keys we have, but not a third. This was difficult to figure because all 3 key sets are identical - we didn't realize we had been switching the keys.

Upon this realization, I searched online for "crown victoria won't start key" and I discovered that this Ford and many others have an electronic chip in the key head which Is part of the PATS (Passive Anti-Theft System) system.

I then asked my wife why the one key's black plastic head was cracked, something previously completely overlooked. She said, oh, she dropped it onto our tile floor about 3 weeks ago. "You've got to be f'ing kidding me! That simple?!?!"

Thus, if you have a similar crank won't start, look into this PATS key issue to see if the key you are using may no longer be working electronically. Like, the grooves in the key turns the ignition like every other key you've ever used (unless you are 25 years old or less and have become accustomed to cars with fake, electronic, keys, which really aren't even keys), so it is counter intuitive to have a key that works, but doesn't work.

I imagine this was Ford's solution to stopping valet staff from copying your car key during dinner. If we are going to switch to an electronic key regime to solve this problem (and others, such as physically worn-out-thru-overuse keys or ignition tumblers, I'd rather go full bore. As it was, this experience was stupid, needless, and very frustrating. Here's hoping your solution is as simple.

Search Ford PATS key online for info how to fix/program your (new) key. For us, we have just stopped using the 1 that doesn't work.

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#3841521 - 01/09/18 07:30 AM Re: Cranks strong but won't start [Re: OPS03]
Campo62451258 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/08/18
Posts: 1
Loc: RI USA
Hello, I came across this forum and noticed that you were having problems with your crown vic fuel pump not priming sometimes. I am having the exact same problem. Did you ever figure out what the problem was? I am at a loss with this car and I have been replacing many parts thinking those were the problem. Thank you for any help.

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