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#2264854 - 03/23/11 09:40 PM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: Chevyguy]
TheShadow Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2191
Loc: SoCal High Desert
Originally Posted By: Chevyguy
Originally Posted By: martz0r
I would change the oil before driving it, just in case anything got in the pan while the cover was off, but thats just me. Wouldn't hurt to oil up the new parts either before you slap the cover back on.


An oil change after the procedure is most 100% required. Just pulling the front cover opens up things and lets some crud fall in. The factory manual recommends a oil change as well, and cleaning of the pickup tube if the wear grinds into the aluminum arms

x2 on oil. Make sure to do the filter also. That's your only defense against all those little aluminum particles that are currently turning your oil a sparkly grey. After the job's done, I'd repeat the oil/filter change in a few hundred miles...
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'96 P71, 640,xxx on original drivetrain. (Now parts car - T-bone & roll)(You should see the roof - A,B & C-pillars chopped on driver side)
New to list: '96 MGM (Nice! @ 35x,xxx), '97 CV P71, '98 CV P71, '00 CV P71, 01 P71 (2 of 'em) '03 CV P71 (Nice so far) (All Ford Zinc Yellow w/Black decals & trim) And the list is growing...........
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#2264917 - 03/24/11 12:01 AM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: Chevyguy]
watkd Offline

Poobah

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 5236
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Chevyguy
Originally Posted By: watkd
Originally Posted By: Chevyguy
Some cars grind right into the tensioner piston after the guide arm is worn away, then you HAVE to replace em.

If the arms are worn good, still consider replacing the tensioners. That is the end of the oil gallery and crud from the worn arms can build up in the tensioners.

The newer style are MUCH easier to deal with no ratchets to compress etc.. just push em in and set the arms in place.


Chevyguy, this is a bit off topic, I was hoping you would still have the original engine in your car, when you showed your timing chain replacements, that engine was spotless internally. You would have been the one to reach 1 million miles because of that, why did you have to replace the engine!


LOL that was my 2001 which was traded in at 211K miles for the 04 Marauder. I miss that car for sure but when the 32V Engine shifts at 6K with the stock tune I forget about that old P-73

Some Cabbie is proabably running around in that car now after picking it up from the auction so it just may get to 300K + providing they decide to replace the original tireods or lower ball joints.


Whoever that cabbie maybe, they certainly won't have to worry too much about maintenance issues because of your timely maintenance.
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1921 Hours
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Last Service Completed-- [Date: ][Mileage ]:

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#2265510 - 03/24/11 10:25 PM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: TheShadow]
dubch87 Offline

Climber

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 589
Loc: NC
I certainly hope I don't need to clean the oil pickup tube. Won't know until I pull the cover off, though.

I change my oil and filter regularly (hadn't even reached 3,000 miles this past time) and I've never noticed any aluminum. Hopefully that's a sign that the arms aren't too worn. Or maybe I change it too often to ever see any aluminum. oop

I've been running conventional oil for awhile and will do the timing work, drain and refill with conventional, run a few hundred miles, then put synthetic back in. She'll probably appreciate it.

Also, it got buried in the posts above, but F6AZ-6L266-DA and F6AZ-6L266-CA are the correct part numbers for the steel-bodied tensioners?

Thanks again, everyone.
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#2281832 - 04/20/11 02:20 AM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: dubch87]
dubch87 Offline

Climber

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 589
Loc: NC
Well, the parts are on their way from Tasca and will be here Thursday! woot

This is my first time pulling the timing cover. I'm not scared to do it, but I am nervous about messing up the timing. I've been reading and studying all the posts on here and the shop manual so I can be as prepared as possible.

However, I'd like to clarify a couple of things.

First, the issue of proper crankshaft and camshaft position. The manual says to "rotate the crankshaft until both camshaft keyways are 90 degrees from the valve cover surface." That should be TDC for piston 1, and is where I need to be?

Also, concerning Chevyguy's picture:



You mention in your Warning about Tensioner guide replacement!!! thread that it's important to route the ties over the chain guides to help prevent the chains from slipping. After replacing the tensioners and tensioner arms, is it safe to remove the ties so the guides can be replaced? Should I tie just the chains at this point to be safe? Can I even replace the guides with the chains still on? The BOK write-up seems to indicate yes.

I appreciate everyone's help and input. I'm becoming a better mechanic one project at a time with the help of everyone here. Just a few years ago I would have never imagined doing something like this.

Thanks again.
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#2282533 - 04/21/11 09:21 AM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: dubch87]
dubch87 Offline

Climber

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 589
Loc: NC
Buuuuump.
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#2282548 - 04/21/11 09:58 AM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: dubch87]
98VicP71 Offline
13.97@99MPH
Grand Poobah

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 12731
Loc: ATL
you will want to time each bank seperate..

Here is a .pdf of the process for my 01 however should be the same for your 00..


Attachments
Timing Chains.pdf (1064 downloads)

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#2282918 - 04/21/11 09:23 PM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: dubch87]
dubch87 Offline

Climber

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 589
Loc: NC
Received the parts.

The guides I received are not full plastic like in the pictures. Part numbers are F3AZ-6K297-A & B.

Thought I had the right part numbers. Will these work? Tasca lists them as working, but from what I can tell through the packaging, it doesn't look like it.
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#2283165 - 04/22/11 07:17 AM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: dubch87]
98VicP71 Offline
13.97@99MPH
Grand Poobah

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 12731
Loc: ATL
it may be possable. I know you can use the pass side arm and guide from a 92 which is aluminum but on the drivers side. The spacing is different and there are little differences with the oil pump housing so the drivers side arm/quide stands off the block a little more.
_________________________
1993 Lincoln Town Car 150k+ - RIP 5/10/2011
1998 Ford Crown Victoria P71 - RIP 12/25/2006
2001 Ford Crown Victoria P71(Count blackula) 297k+ - Ummmmmm evil

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#2283359 - 04/22/11 01:08 PM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: dubch87]
dubch87 Offline

Climber

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 589
Loc: NC
The parts guy at the dealership said what I have is correct for a 2000. Still confused about the difference between these and the part numbers in the BOK.

Guess I'll find out when I pull the cover.
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#2284817 - 04/24/11 11:22 PM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: dubch87]
dubch87 Offline

Climber

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 589
Loc: NC
I wish it was as easy to remove and replace the timing cover as it was to do the actual work! That one power steering pump bolt is a cuss

As far as the guides, Ford actually knows what parts go in their engines. The 2000 engines use the older chain guides. I found this in an online Hot Rod magazine article:

Quote:
There are two types of chain guides on 2V 4.6s: solid plastic and the earlier steel-backed ones found on non-PI engines [...]


So remember that. NPI engines (-00) use the F3AZ-6K297-A & B chain guides, whereas PI engines (01+) use 4R3Z-6B274-BA and 4R3Z-6M256-CC chain guides.

Older style chain guides have two upper bolts and a dowel:




Fairly clean inside:



New parts installed! Replaced tensioners, tensioner arms and chain guides:



And the damage:



I was pretty shocked at how much the arms and guides had worn for a civilian car with 110k miles and virtually no idle time.

Let this be a warning to others! Fix it now and let your engine run strong for another 100k+ miles!

Also, I haven't gotten the timing cover back on. You definitely have to remove more than the front two valve cover bolts to get it back in place. I discovered this after applying RTV and attempting to shove it back together, only to have the valve cover gaskets NOT want to stay in place. By the time I cleaned up the RTV, I was running out of daylight and managed to lose one of the cover bolts. cuss

Oh well. Back to it tomorrow.
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#2284831 - 04/24/11 11:50 PM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: dubch87]
flynryan Offline
Climber

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 817
Loc: Canada
would this be the same process for the Marauder? do I even need to replace them?
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#2284848 - 04/25/11 12:12 AM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: 98VicP71]
SGTMERC Offline
Member

Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 118
Loc: York, PA
Originally Posted By: 98VicP71
you will want to time each bank seperate..

Here is a .pdf of the process for my 01 however should be the same for your 00..

That is an excellent pdf. Thank You, I had a few questions till now.




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03 Mercury Marauder.

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#2284924 - 04/25/11 07:58 AM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: dubch87]
98VicP71 Offline
13.97@99MPH
Grand Poobah

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 12731
Loc: ATL
No problem.. I have a digital service manual for my 01 which I pulled up and printed the instrucitons into the .pdf I posted.

Glad to help.
_________________________
1993 Lincoln Town Car 150k+ - RIP 5/10/2011
1998 Ford Crown Victoria P71 - RIP 12/25/2006
2001 Ford Crown Victoria P71(Count blackula) 297k+ - Ummmmmm evil

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#2284993 - 04/25/11 11:20 AM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: dubch87]
M4XVLTG3 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 195
Loc: Alamogordo NM
Alot of good info going on here. I remember my timing gear was so chewed up from all the play I had that it almost wore through one of the teeth. I kept this part to show other people how bad it can get.
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#2287290 - 04/28/11 09:28 PM Re: Time for timing chain guides and tensioner arms [Re: flynryan]
dubch87 Offline

Climber

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 589
Loc: NC
Originally Posted By: flynryan
would this be the same process for the Marauder? do I even need to replace them?


I've never heard of the Marauders needing this done, but I'd check into it, especially if it's an 03. The 32 valves use the same set up of tensioners, tensioner arms and chain guides, so the process should be nearly identical. There's a chance the arms and guides are made of the same defective material.
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