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#2321564 - 06/27/11 06:45 PM Bypassing the PATS
racprops Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 480
Loc: Phoenix Az
OK IF I have to stay with the original model PCM, how can I reset/bypass the PATS??

I already have a spare PCM, but the PATs make swapping it hard.

Rich
_________________________
I never have enought time to do what I want to do.
2000 Mercury GM, stock (So far)rigged for mileage testings with lots of monitor hardware.

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#2321862 - 06/28/11 04:39 AM Re: Bypassing the PATS [Re: racprops]
BlaineB Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 4379
Loc: Indiana
I am not sure if there is an easier way to do it, but something similar should be available to you as for when installing a remote starter. Obviously the key is not anywhere present inside of the vehicle then and it will still start.

I believe there is a module you can buy from Ford which will bypass the PATS, normally used in combination with a remote start module. But I wonder if you can wire it up to do a continuous bypass of the PATS anti-theft.

Or if there is some easier way to do it. I was told once (by somebody on this forum) that they knew of a wire that could be grounded out (to allow the starter to engage when you turned the key without PATS) but they wouldn't tell me which one and just said to get a factory service manual to figure it out. I guess they were afriad I'd automatically go around stealing cars with that confidential sensitive information!

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#2321876 - 06/28/11 07:18 AM Re: Bypassing the PATS [Re: racprops]
racprops Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 480
Loc: Phoenix Az
Thanks, I will look into that modude.

Rich
_________________________
I never have enought time to do what I want to do.
2000 Mercury GM, stock (So far)rigged for mileage testings with lots of monitor hardware.

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#2321934 - 06/28/11 10:26 AM Re: Bypassing the PATS [Re: racprops]
GrandMarq9807 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 4420
Loc: Virginia
It can't truly be bypassed unless you have a tuner turn the function off... The P71 PCMs do have the feature turned off...

The programmable bypass modules must be programed with TWO original keys that were programmed into the PCM you are using, or it won't work... Of course if you are wanting to swap another PATS PCM into your car, that would mean you need two keys that were originally programmed into it, of course they will not operate your lock cylinder... Forget just grounding the starter relay, the injectors are also shut off by the PCM... My '98 would crank all day but had no injector pulse, some systems do prevent the starter from engaging also...

There are bypass modules that require an original key be installed inside it and will allow the use of a generic non PATS key... Still you need at least one original key that programmed into the PCM you are using...
_________________________
1998 Grand Marquis LS. 96K mi. .. Stock
2007 Grand Marquis GS. 90K mi. .. Stock
1996 F-150 XLT 196K mi Beater, Stock

----------My Toys---------(links are up)
1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 4-Speed
1972 Comet GT Restomod 306, C4
1988 Turbo Coupe 331 AOD & 3.73 .. Pressurized ½ Motor is History

*****************NEW TOY!!!*********************
1969 Base Fairlane 302, C4, 45K mi(really!)

Now with P/S & PDB
Gonna wake it up with a Blue Print headed 347




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#2321949 - 06/28/11 11:08 AM Re: Bypassing the PATS [Re: GrandMarq9807]
Big_Bad_Joe Offline

Poobah

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 8468
Loc: Rochester NY
Yup that's right. We had to go to the dealer to get new keys and reprogrammed when we rescued my 2000 from the crusher. We only had one key and no keyless... so... dealer reprogrammed and supplied new keyless transponders and keys....
_________________________
2006 LX with HPPBlue, Light Camel Interior,Magnaflow Exhaust,PI Zip Tube
Underdrives from ADTR.net
Pioneer AVIC X930BT Nav system, JL xD400/4amp, JL Speakers, Audiovox backup camera
Given to DG in Ohio

2013 Ford Expedition Limited EL, Pearl White

2000 HPP RESURECTION RIP 8/17/2012 died in Dayton OH

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#2322261 - 06/28/11 06:44 PM Re: Bypassing the PATS [Re: racprops]
GrandMarq9807 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 4420
Loc: Virginia
Unless it's a '98 remotes are no problem to program, can pickem' up from ebay for $15 or less... Of course this assumes you get the the correct remote, the ones for most other carlines won't work with a CV/MGM...
_________________________
1998 Grand Marquis LS. 96K mi. .. Stock
2007 Grand Marquis GS. 90K mi. .. Stock
1996 F-150 XLT 196K mi Beater, Stock

----------My Toys---------(links are up)
1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 4-Speed
1972 Comet GT Restomod 306, C4
1988 Turbo Coupe 331 AOD & 3.73 .. Pressurized ½ Motor is History

*****************NEW TOY!!!*********************
1969 Base Fairlane 302, C4, 45K mi(really!)

Now with P/S & PDB
Gonna wake it up with a Blue Print headed 347




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#2322297 - 06/28/11 07:44 PM Re: Bypassing the PATS [Re: racprops]
BlaineB Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 4379
Loc: Indiana
03+ PATS will not crank if you turn the key forward. They have an entirely different PATS system that does not have an external module, like the 98-02 which has a seperate PATS module in the lower dash below the headlight switch.

03+, when turning the key forward, will do nothing. We tried swapping in a CVPI PCM into an 06 P70 as we were going to do the "920A" police equipment package upgrades (gear & torque converter) but were not able to get the car to start or even crank. drock96marquis told me about a wire needing to be grounded in the passenger side kick panel but would tell me nothing else.

So I am guessing there is something to what he said, he has knowledge in these cars so I am assuming what he said was legitimate, but he would say no further!

AND....if what he said COULD work, I'd assume would be something similar that could be done for 98-02 as well to disable the PATS....or at least "fool" it.

For 98-02 the PATS module and PCM work together. For 03+ the PATS is containted entirely in the PCM, so if swapping in a PCM without PATS there should be no conflict, but apparently there was a grounding that would normally be supplied by the PATS equipped PCM which was not present on the CVPI PCMs........perhaps the harnesses are different and that wire is already grounded for the P71s.

Entirely different than the 98-02. You just swap in a P71 PCM for those years and you're golden, just unplug the PATS module if you don't want the red light to blink.

I wouldn't recommend running the programming though unless you actually have the correct rear gear and torque converter to match the programming. I ran my car for awhile, it worked fine but it wasn't quite right, that's the best way I can describe it!


Edited by BlaineB (06/28/11 07:48 PM)

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#2322884 - 06/29/11 03:57 PM Re: Bypassing the PATS [Re: racprops]
BlaineB Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 4379
Loc: Indiana
Maybe this PATS diagram will help. 98-02.


Attachments
2000Pats.jpg




Edited by BlaineB (06/29/11 03:58 PM)

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#2324012 - 07/01/11 08:13 AM Re: Bypassing the PATS [Re: racprops]
racprops Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 480
Loc: Phoenix Az
Thanks guys.

If you saw I am having intermitten problems and feel the CPU could be acting up, but to swap it is a nightmare.

This should allow me to test it with another CPU.

Rich
_________________________
I never have enought time to do what I want to do.
2000 Mercury GM, stock (So far)rigged for mileage testings with lots of monitor hardware.

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#2325188 - 07/03/11 03:18 PM Re: Bypassing the PATS [Re: racprops]
dRock96Marquis Offline


Posting Addict

Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 24394
Loc: Maryland
Quote:
03+, when turning the key forward, will do nothing. We tried swapping in a CVPI PCM into an 06 P70 as we were going to do the "920A" police equipment package upgrades (gear & torque converter) but were not able to get the car to start or even crank. drock96marquis told me about a wire needing to be grounded in the passenger side kick panel but would tell me nothing else.

So I am guessing there is something to what he said, he has knowledge in these cars so I am assuming what he said was legitimate, but he would say no further!

AND....if what he said COULD work, I'd assume would be something similar that could be done for 98-02 as well to disable the PATS....or at least "fool" it.

I think you may have picked some info from a few different posts of mine wink
There is nothing you can ground in the passenger kick panel that will have any effect on PATS operation.
Likewise, there is nothing you can ground (anywhere) to disable PATS entirely.



On 2003+ models the PATS system incorporated a starter interrupt so the vehicle cannot be cranked at all without the correct coded key (unlike -02 which would crank/no start)

This is done by the PCM (which controls PATS entirely for 03+) controlling ground for the starter relay coil. Power for the coil is still switched by the ignition itself, however the relay won't latch/starter engage unless the PCM also provides the ground to coil.

As PATS is/was a retail model feature, this wiring is only present on them.
On CVPIs, however, the relay coil is ALWAYS grounded - there is no PCM involvement with the starter circuit.

Jumping the starter relay coil to be always grounded on a retail model to duplicate the CVPI's configuration will disable the starter interrupt function of PATS on equipped 2003+ models, allowing the ignition to be turned and starter engaged whether the key is coded or not.

However, AFAIK the PATS system still disables the fuel system as well - so even if you perform this starter relay bypass the vehicle will likely not start (instead behaving like -02 PATS, crank but no start)
I'm not completely certain on this as I haven't played with an 03+ PATS system to confirm, though I would hope they kept the fuel system disable as well!
_________________________
-Derek
-Panther info & FAQs-



Former owner of a Grand Marquis with a few mods, Grand Marquis "LSE S/C"

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#2325572 - 07/04/11 10:34 AM Re: Bypassing the PATS [Re: racprops]
racprops Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 480
Loc: Phoenix Az
OK All very interesting but I am dealing with a 2000 GM.

What can I do with it??

Rich
_________________________
I never have enought time to do what I want to do.
2000 Mercury GM, stock (So far)rigged for mileage testings with lots of monitor hardware.

Top
#2325693 - 07/04/11 02:19 PM Re: Bypassing the PATS [Re: racprops]
BlaineB Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 4379
Loc: Indiana
A CVPI PCM I suppose, but then you should swap in a rear gear.

You could use the programming from a 98 CVPI (along with the mass airflow sensor) as they still had the 12" torque converter as you do...that would save you from swapping in a 11.25" torque converter, as all CVPIs from 1999+ have had the 11.25" torque converter.

And you are lucky since yours is a 2000 with the non-PI motor, which would be the same as a 1998 CVPI.

The only programming which would be "incorrect" would be for the rear gear, which is a 2.73 in your car.....and in the 1998 CVPI it would be 3.27 or 3.55, unsure.

It would get you on your way though!

And by the way, thanks for the information dRock96Marquis. That is some good stuff about grounding the starter relay for 2003+.


Edited by BlaineB (07/04/11 02:19 PM)

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#2325816 - 07/04/11 07:50 PM Re: Bypassing the PATS [Re: racprops]
GrandMarq9807 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 4420
Loc: Virginia
I've had a '99 CVPI PCM in my '98 MGM for about 10 months now, even with the 2.73 RAR, it's fine... At normal throttle transmission shift points are identical but on forced downshift, it will shift back to 1st at up to 40mph(nice to get around the slow pokes in town)... Idle is slightly higher but isn't noticable, has gotten a high of 27 MPG on the highway...

The '00 uses a different MAF than the '96-'99, so you'd need a '00 P71 PCM, or swap both if you use earlier components...
_________________________
1998 Grand Marquis LS. 96K mi. .. Stock
2007 Grand Marquis GS. 90K mi. .. Stock
1996 F-150 XLT 196K mi Beater, Stock

----------My Toys---------(links are up)
1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 4-Speed
1972 Comet GT Restomod 306, C4
1988 Turbo Coupe 331 AOD & 3.73 .. Pressurized ½ Motor is History

*****************NEW TOY!!!*********************
1969 Base Fairlane 302, C4, 45K mi(really!)

Now with P/S & PDB
Gonna wake it up with a Blue Print headed 347




Top
#2326327 - 07/05/11 08:05 PM Re: Bypassing the PATS [Re: racprops]
BlaineB Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 4379
Loc: Indiana
For ANY of you 1998-2000 Grand Marquis or non-police Crown Victoria guys, I would run a 1998 CVPI PCM.....otherwise you risk balooning your 12" torque converter if you use the 1999 PCM!

1998 CVPI still used 12" torque converter, it wasn't until 1999 that the CVPI received the 11.25" torque converter which has a higher stall.

Now it isn't that easy for the 2001-2002 guys, there is no CVPI PCM available for those years that will work well with a 12" torque converter.

And if the MAF changed in 2000 and you are using a 1998 or 1999 PCM, use the MAF which matches up with the year of the PCM which you are using so you get the correct calibration for that setup.

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#2326378 - 07/05/11 09:23 PM Re: Bypassing the PATS [Re: BlaineB]
GrandMarq9807 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 4420
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: BlaineB
For ANY of you 1998-2000 Grand Marquis or non-police Crown Victoria guys, I would run a 1998 CVPI PCM.....otherwise you risk balooning your 12" torque converter if you use the 1999 PCM!



How so??? Have you seen one of these ballooned converters??? At the mundane power level of single exhaust(or even dual exhaust) 4.6L, I can't see it happening... About any stock converter will spin to 6250 which is the fuel cut for a Ford PCM...

I sold a AOD 12" B&M 2K stall street fighter torque converter(these use a stock case, with no anti ballooning plate) to a friend and he used it for over two years behind a built 5.0 and a 125Hp shot of nitrous, never missed a beat(he ran 12.15 on the juice)... I kept telling him it was gonna puff up but never did... The tranny finally puked a planetary gear but the converter was still kicking, he sold it to someone else...
_________________________
1998 Grand Marquis LS. 96K mi. .. Stock
2007 Grand Marquis GS. 90K mi. .. Stock
1996 F-150 XLT 196K mi Beater, Stock

----------My Toys---------(links are up)
1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 4-Speed
1972 Comet GT Restomod 306, C4
1988 Turbo Coupe 331 AOD & 3.73 .. Pressurized ½ Motor is History

*****************NEW TOY!!!*********************
1969 Base Fairlane 302, C4, 45K mi(really!)

Now with P/S & PDB
Gonna wake it up with a Blue Print headed 347




Top
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