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#2449406 - 02/01/12 01:34 PM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: DDK03CVPI]
Spartan Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1343
Loc: Bozeman, MT
The calibration is done in the computer. not the sensor itself. so the sensors with the same part number will be the same sensors, just the calibrations for what the sensor reads will be different based on the application. each maf sensor has a 0-5 volt output. and each maf has a transfer function or decoder in each computer application that translates that voltage # to airflow measurments. 1.5 volts for a npi engine airflow #s will be different than 1.5 for a pi engine and so on. each maf transfer function has a 30 pt scale that maps the airflow of a specific engine application. that is what needs to be calibrated. when I install a different maf than stock applications, I start from 0 and map the airflow of that engine and adjust the scale values for that application. that is why you need to get a tune when you do things that change how the engine and air/fuel behave, like large cams, blowers ect... you have changed how air is delivered to the cylinders.

long winded but hope that helps.
_________________________
1998 P71 - Aluminum 4.6, 5 speed - 245rwhp 293rwtq
1992 F250
1993 Ford Ranger




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#2449496 - 02/01/12 04:30 PM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: DDK03CVPI]
PHoganDive Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 06/11/11
Posts: 3078
Loc: Mass, USA
Originally Posted By: DDK03CVPI
I'm always ready to learn something, so please explain how MAFs
with different calibrations have the same part #. How would you
ever be able to buy one aftermarket?(which you can), nobody
would be able to differentiate one from another.

Thanks,DDK


The MAF calibration is determined by the MAF module, and the housing. P/N XXXXXX MAF in a 70mm housing will have a very different calibration than the same MAF in an 80mm housing.
_________________________

2006 CVPI w/120K, J-Mod, MSD COPs, BOC Tune, American Muscle Wheels, Magnaflow Stainless Catback Duals, 35% tint, UltraGuage, headlight relay harness installed w/ 80/100 watt bulbs.

1996 GMQ 116K miles, Bilstein shocks, otherwise stock (Retired 7/2011)

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#2449654 - 02/01/12 08:26 PM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: PHoganDive]
DDK03CVPI Offline
Member

Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Eastern Shore of Md.
@ Spartan, exactly! My question was directed at Stalag's
statement & others that seem to think the MAF sensor does
calculations of some sort or think the MAF housing/tube is
"calibrated".

DDK
_________________________
2004 CVPI, Dark Blue Pearl, 106,xxx mi., 3L27 Diff., '05 6cyl Mustang wheels,MaxiTrip Gauge,Putco H/L Harness,'01 Explorer AM/FM/CD,MM rear sway bar.

2003 CVPI,Performance White, 150,xxxmi.,R.I.P. 12/10/11




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#2449685 - 02/01/12 09:20 PM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: Barryr]
124neta Offline
don't get riled, sugar!
Poobah

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 6117
Loc: Il
^^^ Its sounds like what DDK is trying to say is that all MAF sensors are the same and will produce the same voltage for equal airflow as any other MAF.

Im not going to disagree with any of Spartans post, but is there any factual basis to back up what DDK is saying.

I'm not saying he wrong, but if he right, why the need for a different maf(part #) on 98-99 compared to the 2000 Model year. Nothing changed with the engine. Maf housing is the same size. By DDK's logic my 2000 Maf and 1999 Maf should be sending the identical voltage and exact same airflow.

Many others who experienced performance problems when using a 99PCM without corresponding 99MAF will be in disagreement.
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#2450198 - 02/02/12 05:05 PM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: 124neta]
DDK03CVPI Offline
Member

Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Eastern Shore of Md.
124neta...No! That's not what I'm saying. The idea that I'm
trying to get accross, is the the relationship of the MAF
sensor to it's housing diameter is very important in sending
the correct signal to the PCM. The PCM then uses this info +
much more to determine proper spark timing & fuel delivery
for the engine load. Many engines could use the same MAF sensor in
the appropriate housing for that particular engine. If you alter
the diameter of the MAF housing, you alter the velocity of the air
accross the sensor, thus changing the signal to the PCM.
The PCM does all the heavy lifting(calculations) not the MAF!

DDK
_________________________
2004 CVPI, Dark Blue Pearl, 106,xxx mi., 3L27 Diff., '05 6cyl Mustang wheels,MaxiTrip Gauge,Putco H/L Harness,'01 Explorer AM/FM/CD,MM rear sway bar.

2003 CVPI,Performance White, 150,xxxmi.,R.I.P. 12/10/11




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#2450229 - 02/02/12 06:04 PM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: Barryr]
Barryr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 175
Loc: RI
That would explain why I can use either MAF in either housing with 3 separate tunes and they all work the same, provided the tune matches the housing.
_________________________
06 Crown Vic LX
MZT, Magnaflow, Trac-lock 3.73, Addco's, BOC Tune, Bumper tuck, Fanblades 255/45/18 Turanzas


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#2450278 - 02/02/12 07:12 PM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: DDK03CVPI]
124neta Offline
don't get riled, sugar!
Poobah

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 6117
Loc: Il
Originally Posted By: DDK03CVPI

The PCM does all the heavy lifting(calculations) not the MAF!


No doubt the maf isn't doing any calculations, but I dont think that is what stalag was trying to say.

"Not performing calculations" and "Not calibrated" dont mean the same thing. I really dont know how these parts work, but I assume they are calibrated to send a certain voltage at a given flow.

Until somebody offers some solid facts, I would hesitate to put MAFs of differing part numbers into cars based on the idea that the only variable is inlet diameter.

Im not trying to be argumentative, I just want this to be straightened out.
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#2450357 - 02/02/12 09:02 PM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: Barryr]
PHoganDive Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 06/11/11
Posts: 3078
Loc: Mass, USA
The MAF puts out a voltage based on airflow...more airflow = more voltage. To calibrate it, you need a flowbench which can produce measured rates of airflow. You start at zero flow, measure the MAF voltage, and record it. Then start the flow at some small value, say 1 CFM, and record the new voltage, then up the flow to 2 CFM, record the voltage, etc. You want fine divisions at the low end of the flow, where the idle and low RPM flow is...once you get further up in the flow, you can go to several CFM between readings. At some point you will max out the MAF sensor voltage, that is the maximum flow it can read.
You end up with a data table of airflow vs voltage for the MAF. The tuner uses this data to program the PCM for the MAF, so it knows how much air is going into the motor.
Just a FYI...temperature also plays a role in the calibration, the air temperature has to be measured, so a correction factor can be applied to the measured value to end up with the true value.
_________________________

2006 CVPI w/120K, J-Mod, MSD COPs, BOC Tune, American Muscle Wheels, Magnaflow Stainless Catback Duals, 35% tint, UltraGuage, headlight relay harness installed w/ 80/100 watt bulbs.

1996 GMQ 116K miles, Bilstein shocks, otherwise stock (Retired 7/2011)

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#2450531 - 02/03/12 01:40 AM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: Barryr]
RiceBurnt6 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 5079
Loc: SWMI
To make a long story short, Lonnie will have to change you tune if you ordered the tune for your stock box. 80mm is a huge difference from a 70mm maf laugh
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Originally Posted By: RiceBurnt6
You're getting mad at the content of a thread of which you clicked on? Maybe you need to get a life? Yes?

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#2450841 - 02/03/12 03:24 PM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: RiceBurnt6]
DDK03CVPI Offline
Member

Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Eastern Shore of Md.
Some say potato, some say pototo...Lol. I think we're all
pretty much on the same page now! I think maybe the word
'calibrated' implies different things to different people.

DDK
_________________________
2004 CVPI, Dark Blue Pearl, 106,xxx mi., 3L27 Diff., '05 6cyl Mustang wheels,MaxiTrip Gauge,Putco H/L Harness,'01 Explorer AM/FM/CD,MM rear sway bar.

2003 CVPI,Performance White, 150,xxxmi.,R.I.P. 12/10/11




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#2479610 - 03/12/12 11:30 PM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: Barryr]
Hill185 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1578
Loc: Boston, Mass.
Originally Posted By: barryr
That would explain why I can use either MAF in either housing with 3 separate tunes and they all work the same, provided the tune matches the housing.



So was the issue solved? What was the problem?
_________________________
CVN class of 2002

("Interceptor4lyf")





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#2526627 - 05/20/12 06:53 PM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: Hill185]
M75Sleeper Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 325
Loc: MI
Since I’m gathering parts and information relating to the MZT mod on 05+ cars, here’s my two cents. After reading this thread and others like it, here is what I’ve concluded:

*Keep in mind that these statements only apply to 05+ panthers.*

Allot of people keep referring to a “80mm MAF” and a “70mm MAF”… This is technically incorrect, as OEM MAF units (FoMoCo Part #: Suffix - 12B579 - Prefix & Motorcraft Part #: AFLS-131) are listed as direct replacements for both civilian trim and police optioned panthers from 05 onward… The MAFs carry the same part numbers and are the same size, regardless of the air box they are installed in. These MAFs are also listed as replacements for other 4.6 and 5.4 vehicles, like F series trucks, E series vans and some Mustangs…

That said, I do not recommend running out to a junk yard and pulling MAF sensors off any Ford vehicle made after 2005… I am only talking about OEM Ford or Motorcraft replacement units that carry the previously mentioned part numbers.

So where does this 80mm vs 70mm business come in? It’s the measurement of the Inner Diameter of the airbox’s outlet!

As other posters have mentioned, the cartridge type MAF units return a specific voltage range to the PCM, depending on the type of housing they are in.

So, correct me if I’m wrong, but if you have an 05+ civilian panther, the MAF unit is the same part that is used in the Crown Victoria Police Interceptor… So if you want to do an MZT, you only really need the 05+ CVPI air box, a handheld tuner and a custom tune that recognizes the changes in air box outlet size…
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2005 Grand Marquis
Originally Posted By: pantera77
Disregard women. Acquire panthers.

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#2527427 - 05/22/12 04:26 AM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: Barryr]
PoliceInterceptr Offline

Poobah

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 5405
Loc: Miami, FL
1998-1999 MAF is different from 2000 MAF. Don't know if the tuning is different or not, but the difference is visible inside the housing. I replaced my stock 2000 MAF with one out of a '98 P71 when I put in the '99 PCM. Wish I had pictures to show you the difference. Maybe tomorrow.


This is from Rockauto.com


1999 MAF:



2000 MAF:


Edited by PoliceInterceptr (05/22/12 04:30 AM)
_________________________
2012 F150 - 5.0L Coyote, 4x4 w/elocker, on 35"s
2003 Mustang GT - Lowered on 18" Dodge Magnums. *SOLD*
2000 Crown Vic P71 (few mods) - *SOLD AFTER 8 YEARS*
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell.
"America is all about speed - hot, nasty badass speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt.

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#2780701 - 11/20/13 06:26 PM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: Barryr]
CrownVic97 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 08/16/08
Posts: 3804
Loc: Brockton, MA
My apologies, I am still trying to wrap my head around the difference between the 04+ P71 maf and the 05+ civilian maf.

So they are the exact same maf, no difference whatsoever?

Sorry for reviving a dead post
_________________________
2003 Mercury Marauder 300A: 170k miles.
Bolt ons, TR-3650, 4.56s.


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#2780759 - 11/20/13 08:44 PM Re: MAF sensors. [Re: CrownVic97]
BlackVic_P71 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 14597
Loc: LI, NY
Originally Posted By: CrownVic97

So they are the exact same maf, no difference whatsoever?

Sorry for reviving a dead post

At least '05+, the exact same MAF cartridge is used in the civilian and P71's, same part number, same plug.
The only difference is the housing it's in(70 vs 80mm) and of course the tune used to run one or the other.
_________________________
Originally Posted By Jeremy Clarkson
The future is very fast and extremely quiet...but a bit burny.

1989 Ford Crown Victoria Country Squire - 347
2005 Crown Victoria LX Sport with Stainless Works full exhaust, Addco swaybars, Heinous control arms, Powerslot rotors, Hawk HPS pads
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