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#2952689 - 12/07/15 06:06 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: Spanker]
stalag Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 4043
Loc: Columbus, OH
Originally Posted By Spanker
Tap water is fine. I've been using tap water since before your mother was born, without any trouble. Look at it this way, many marine engines are cooled by the dirty salt water they operate in, and most easily go 10-15 years without a problem, and they are cooled with hot salt water.

If you won't use it in your car, I certainly wouldn't be drinking it or bathing in it.

Further, if you go to the Ford parts site, the Motorcraft Pre-Diluted Coolant indicates it is a "50/50 mixture of coolant and treated (purified) water..." and then "Recommended by Ford Motor Company; meets warranty requirements."

"Purified" means run through a filter to get the sand/rust out of it. It is NOT mixed with distilled or deionized or any other nonsense, as it would say so if it was. Your wasting your time and money with distilled water.
www.fordparts.com/Products/Chemicals-EngineProducts-Coolants.aspx

It all depends on your water quality, but most municipal systems have reasonably decent water. Well-water is a different story.


Purified water today has a totally different meaning. It means that it not only has been filtered, but that it has had the ions removed. My first post on this forum was a thread on coolants which will be updated shortly after I can get a friend of mine who is a Lincoln Service Manager for a Lincoln Dealer gives me some input. My post is from the perspective of a PhD chemist. You would be well advised to look at it and educate yourself. Use of anything other than fully deionized water/distilled water is not recommended under any circumstance for any length of time. If tap water is used, your coolant should be flushed at the first possible place you can get it done and get the other repairs to the cooling system completed that necessitated the use of tap water in the first place. Water can contain a large amount of salts that you cannot taste directly but are still there! Ergo, use distilled water only unless you enjoy spending large amounts of money later replacing aluminum parts like your heads when they begin to leak due to corrosion.
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#2952697 - 12/07/15 06:10 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: Chaplian]
2011LX Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 1669
Loc: SE WI
Originally Posted By Chaplian
Marine engines are designed completely differently with different tolerances.



No, they aren't. A 4.3 Mercruiser, for instance, is nearly identical to the 4.3 in the Astro van, s10, Blazer, etc on the street
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#2952705 - 12/07/15 06:11 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: 09MGMPW]
Chaplian Offline

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Poobah

Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 5514
Loc: Chicago, IL
Because it contains various metals and chlorine. This leads to scaling and corrosion of the engine block. Chlorine can corrode stainless steel.

Please find me a label stating you can use tap water. If you look on the back of any coolant bottle it says distilled water.
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#2952713 - 12/07/15 06:12 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: 09MGMPW]
Chaplian Offline

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Poobah

Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 5514
Loc: Chicago, IL
I was under the impression you meant something other than pleasurecraft.

Also, NONE of those recommend use of salt water. They also recommend use of distilled water, once again, not tap water.
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#2952729 - 12/07/15 06:19 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: Chaplian]
2011LX Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 1669
Loc: SE WI
uh.... a freshwater boat powertrain is cooled by the lake/river water you are motoring in, straight up, no treatment. There is no 'recommendation', distilled, tap, or otherwise.

I'm not debating the silly coolant discussion, just pointing out that the whole boat comment was flat out wrong. Boat engines = car engines, minus emissions equipment.
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#2952737 - 12/07/15 06:21 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: 2011LX]
Chaplian Offline

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Poobah

Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 5514
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By 2011LX
uh.... a freshwater boat powertrain is cooled by the lake/river water you are motoring in, straight up, no treatment. There is no 'recommendation'

I'm not debating the silly coolant discussion, just pointing out that the whole boat comment was flat out wrong.


The boats I've been on used an enclosed cooling system. Did the older ones not?
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2011 Crown Vic LX- 78,xxx.
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1995 Impala SS- 29xxx miles. The Lovely Lady
2003 BMW 325i Wagon- 8250 RPM redline. Complete M3 drivetrain, suspension, and electronics. Taylor Swift.
2017 Mazda3 GT Hatchback- 90,xxxx miles. 2.5L, fully loaded. The Daily Grind.

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#2952785 - 12/07/15 06:33 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: Chaplian]
2011LX Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 1669
Loc: SE WI
Originally Posted By Chaplian
Originally Posted By 2011LX
uh.... a freshwater boat powertrain is cooled by the lake/river water you are motoring in, straight up, no treatment. There is no 'recommendation'

I'm not debating the silly coolant discussion, just pointing out that the whole boat comment was flat out wrong.


The boats I've been on used an enclosed cooling system. Did the older ones not?


They've always been 'open' for fresh water, as in the water we treat for the tap. A closed system is for salt water boats. And no, nobody is talking about driving to the Pacific so they can use some of that 'crystal clear' ocean water for their cooling system.
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#2952801 - 12/07/15 06:37 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: 09MGMPW]
Chaplian Offline

Insert witty title here
Poobah

Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 5514
Loc: Chicago, IL
I know boats have heat exchangers which are open to fresh water, but those have to serviced every once in a while, and in some cases, replaced. I don't know of any boats which cool the engine themselves with fresh water.
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#2952833 - 12/07/15 06:42 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: 09MGMPW]
GrandMarq9807 Offline
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Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 4420
Loc: Virginia
Yeah there goes that tolerance thing again which now days is used about 99% of the time in place of clearance, which is TOTALLY different...

BTW AFAIK, neither tolerance nor clearance have any bearing on the cooling system...
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#2952921 - 12/07/15 07:22 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: 09MGMPW]
stalag Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 4043
Loc: Columbus, OH
The car companies in order to get more efficient cooling have gone to smaller orifices in the radiators used in our cars. These smaller diameter holes are more susceptible to clogging from lime scale build up. There is a series of reactions showing how carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is dissolved and forms carbonic acid in the coolant. Any metal ions present will then salt out with the carbonate ion from carbonic acid and form boilerscale/limescale. Given this, limiting use of tap water which does contain metal ions is important. In addition some of the metal ions dissolved in tap water will react with the buffers in the coolant deactivating the buffer chemically. Ford recently in their late model cars has seen issues and warranty recalls over coolant systems that have added tap water to the coolant.

But I agree with the fact that engine tolerances for the combustion and other related components have no bearing on the coolant system. But I will note that in more modern boat designs, even though cooled with lake water, etc. there is still a captive coolant system in place that exchanges heat with the environment (lake water). Given this, more modern engines which contain aluminum and iron need to protect the engine from corroding beyond repair. Most people would be upset if they had to buy a $5000 engine every year due to how fast aluminum and iron react when not protected from corrosion.
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#2952953 - 12/07/15 07:31 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: 09MGMPW]
2011LX Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 1669
Loc: SE WI
If you live in a freshwater dominant area, majority of boats are cooled with raw lake water. No closed system - lake water straight through the engine.

Here's a typical mercruiser, one of the most common (consumer) drives on the water

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#2953009 - 12/07/15 07:47 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: 09MGMPW]
Chevyguy Offline

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Registered: 01/05/04
Posts: 9450
Loc: Winchester Mass
LOL with salty or silty water Here they recommend flushing up to EVERY USE http://www.boatfix.com/merc/servmanl/13/13a6r2.pdf Lots of threads talking about closed loop systems as many aluminum head inboard engines are coming out vs the old cast iron Chevy small block, 4.3 V6 or inline 4 cyls grow out of fashion



Edited by Chevyguy (12/07/15 07:49 PM)
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#2953041 - 12/07/15 07:55 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: 09MGMPW]
2011LX Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 1669
Loc: SE WI
Yup. Raw water cooling really isn't supposed to be used in sea water. No problem in fresh water, though. The engines will outlast the boat on the Great Lakes, for example beer1


The old iron engines are obviously growing out of fashion... GM won't produce them forever, just for Merc.
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currently @ 100k miles
Dark Toreador Red Metallic exterior
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#2953089 - 12/07/15 08:22 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: 09MGMPW]
IPreferDIY Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/12/15
Posts: 1082
Loc: Canada
It looks like no one has explicitly mentioned the galvanic response that results in the rad and heater core getting eaten away. That's my biggest concern.
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#2953281 - 12/07/15 09:03 PM Re: My Coolant Flush Procedure. Correct? [Re: IPreferDIY]
Spanker Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 306
Loc: Boston
IPreferDIY - The coolant minimizes the galvanic reaction, but there will be minor galvanic action on the aluminum parts. Eventually that's what eats the heat core and radiator. Only way to eliminate that is to somehow mount some sacrificial zinc anodes into the coolant.

The ocean-cooled marine engines use "zinc pencils" which thread into the thermostat housing. They get replaced annually. They're about $5 each.


Edited by Spanker (12/07/15 09:06 PM)
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