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#3052074 - 02/07/16 07:52 PM Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix
GM_Guy Offline
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18663
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
This is a cleaned up version of my 08 cluster fix thread. For the most part it is a simple cut 'n paste of the usefull bits. originally posted April 2015.

It applies directly to 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 instrument clusters with flickering and/or dim odometers.

rev 2.0
-----------------------------------------------------8<-----------------------------------------
Got 'er done today. Hopefully. We'll give it a couple days and see how it stays. Numbers all bright and evenly lit. Before I pulled it, pushing behind the odo definately got it back to life. So heat up the iron, get out my good solder and see if I can keep from breaking anything.

Of the existing youtube vids, the freestar odometer more closely matches the panther cluster than the mustang/f150 clusters. But in the end, the cause is the same: Failed solder joints.

Looking at the circuit board, there are a few surface mount components under the odo, they where a bugger to get to, but patience and experience pay off. There are also 3 1/2 watt resistors under there, conventional through-hole mount though so that makes it easier. Give these lots of heat, I noticed a problem that used to plaque viewsonic monitors back in the 90's--the leads on a couple resistors would not take solder properly, the fix then was lots of heat and solder with lots of rosin to cook off whatever was coating the resistor leads. I found a couple leads on these suffered similar looks, so cook they did. =-)

Examining the board, I also touched up the soldered through-holes on the board. I also noticed that the corner pins of the connector could use a touch up, and I hit a couple other components that looked suspicious to me, looked fine, but they kept attracting my eye so hit 'em with the iron for good measure.

I had to pull the needles, and managed to screw up the speedo. Took apart the stupid thimg a few times thinking I had it right. But we'll see. Tach is okay, and fuel and temp are slightly off from where I remember them. Close enough though. But the cluster seems to work as is, then after sitting, it resets itself a bit, change needle, stupid thing resets itself again afterwards. I went from too slow, too fast, but never correct. =-) Ain't no certified cluster no more.

A handy tip from PHoganDive;
Before I remove any needles, I gently push them counterclockwise to the end of travel, and mark that position with a pencil mark on a bit of masking tape on the guage face. Gives me a reference when they go back on.

Onwards with some pics;
0.Familiar view, dim/flickering/non-existant odo display. Compared to the box, this speedo comes out rather easily. Good thing to, becuase it came out a few more times...



1.What the backside looks like. Plastic sneeze shield still in place.



2.Guage needles removed, starting to get her free from the housing.



3.Front side.



4.ODO closer up, arrows pointing to conventional resistors and surface mount components also "hidden" underneath that should be touched up. DO NOT SKIP resolding the components under the odometer display thinking its too difficult to do and playing the odds, because guess what, these are the primary failure points as Kots discovered and you'll be pulling your cluster apart once again.
Also of note from Kots on information he found elsewhere, if you tend to bang your dash to get the odometer to come back to life, these surface mount resistors will eventually break off, and then you get the joy of getting those back on.



5.closerer up. Viewers will note that the legs of the odometer are essentially hanging in free air with only the backside solder pads anchoring it. No wonder these things go, bit of shaking while driving will eventually crack anything mounted like this.



6.Connector. You'll want to inspect this closely, it doesn't get much stress, but having operated a wave solderer in the past, theres a few things to know when you have large areas of solder, namely, a cooling action if the wave solder ain't perfectly setup, and with that, poor solder joints. If it is extremely poorly setup, you can tell what direction the bosrd travels through it. It can be a delicate balance between too hot and too cold depending on what is mounted to the board. I had a crack on the top left pin, and number 3. Retouched all corners and any that looked suspect.



7.Main odo pins we are concerned with. Hit those legs of the 1/2watt resistors with some heat, don't be afraid, and don't use no sh--y 35watt soldering iron. That is for people who don't know how to solder and just want to be able to say they own a soldering iron. 75watts or 100watts. Even more important with todays multi-layered boards, too low a wattage means all the copper sucks the heat away from your iron and you are just making solder drops at best. Don't be afraid of heat.



8.Needle Oops.



9.Oops fixed. Not quite perfect, but close enough for the way I drive.



With PHoganDives tip, you should avoid any misalignment when you put things together. But justin case, don't push the needles home when you are done, get the cluster back in its housing, but leave the clear cover off and plug it into the car and go for a test drive. As I noted originally, there is no guage zeroing in my 08 when you turn on the key, so I resorted to taking a run around the block and letting the cluster get itself back into sync and then closed things up.

Since then, I have found the cluster self test, which should make this a single session job;

Instrument Cluster Self Test;
Engine off.
Press & Hold Trip/Reset button.
Turn key to run.
Release trip/reset when "tEST" appears in the odometer.
Press trip/reset to flip through a bunch of other info,
including bulb test (warning lights, maybe general illumination-have only done it during the day).
When you get to the odometer saying "gAge", watch the guages have a mini siezure and full sweep, supposedly returning to zero.

Turn key off when bored.

Among other info, you will get values for what the car is sending to the cluster to display (fuel level, oil pressure, engine temp, rpm for the regular info.

To verify the speedo, hook up an odb scanner with live data and monitor speed to see if the needle is pointing to the appropriate location. If not, just pull the needle and reset the appropriate amount. I shouldn't have to say this, but don't do this while in motion.

And yer Done.

In summary, resolder anything that looks suspect, definately resolder the surface mount components under the odometer display, the odometer display, and the connector grounds at minimum.

Cluster removal can be found in other threads around here, not that you need them, this generation panther come apart easily, you don't even need to remove the radio from the cluster surround.

Alex.
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#3061209 - 02/12/16 10:30 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
PHoganDive Offline
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This post should be sticky'd...:)
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#3061289 - 02/12/16 11:45 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GoldPanther Offline
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Awesome tutorial.
add it in the BOK!!!


Edited by DanMitchell13 (02/12/16 11:45 AM)
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#3061905 - 02/12/16 07:09 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
SocalSam Online   content
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Don't know when I will need this but I will...it is bookmarked.
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#3100273 - 03/06/16 04:23 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
DavidVT Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
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Great post, thank you!

I have my 08 cvpi cluster apart following your guide. It's symptom was a blacked out odometer/info display. Speedometer, tach, fuel and temp gauges ok.

While I wait for a good soldering iron, a question.....

I see no obvious issues on the PCB, cracks etc. Could this problem be from elsewhere in the car? I realize the cracks could be microscopic but still I have time to look elsewhere, any ideas??
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#3100457 - 03/06/16 07:47 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Loc: London, Ontario Canada
They won't necessarily be visible. The problematic surface mount components on mine looked a-ok, and another poster in my original thread decided not to resolder those and ended up repulling his cluster and after resoldering was back in operation.

Touch up the indicated items and give everything else a look over with a magnifier, and try it out. Got nothing to lose by trying, and if it works, you saved yourself a hundred bucks or whatever the cost is now for sending it off to someone else.

Alex.
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#3142890 - 04/06/16 01:00 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
mholhut Offline
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Came here just for this specific topic. So glad to have found a DIY solution... thanks for the post Alex!

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#3143370 - 04/06/16 05:55 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Thats what we're here for.

Alex.
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#3145794 - 04/07/16 09:34 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
98BoatCaptain Offline
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Registered: 02/02/16
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Wonder why Ford chose to put a tach on the CV's dash? I mean it's not like you can do anything about RPMs is it? There was never an aero CV with a manual tranny was there?
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#3146978 - 04/08/16 05:44 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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People like tachs.
I'd rather know why they removed the volt guage, at least that was usefull. Incidently, voltage information is present in the cluster data stream, so having the guage wouldn't require additional wires, just another stepper and needle.

Alex.
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#3147946 - 04/09/16 11:00 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Blu Offline
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Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 584
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Right, why did they remove voltage and oil pressure. This was their chance to add a functional oil pressure gauge. What bugs me is that even if the 07 was the same(idk) they changed the 08 components(on pcb) for what ever reason. It makes me think that ford knew something was up. o_O
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#3148242 - 04/09/16 04:05 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Two things: Stupid people and real guages = trips to the Dealer because the guage keeps moving. This ain't made up. People are idiots and there are far more of those than those who know how to interpret a guage.

That is why Ford had the "Idiot Guage"--which does not move until something actually goes wrong. It is also the reason most makes dampen the guage, restrict movement of the guage and only display an average.

With modern PCM controlled alternators, voltage is always changing depending on load and temperature. What lots of people don't realize, that under correct conditions, the alternator will be turned off. All you will see is actual battery voltage. People who are used to 14.7volts "when things work" freak out when the guage shows 12volts. So, good bye real voltage guage.

Alex.
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#3149833 - 04/10/16 08:50 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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An additional note to those attempting to repair their cluster, when you are done, if you have any solder splatter, clean it off with a qtip and rubbing alcohol.
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#3414009 - 10/27/16 04:01 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Ross413 Offline
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Registered: 12/15/14
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Great post! Going to try this on a car at work before mine.
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#3444081 - 11/21/16 05:02 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
MrRouter Offline
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Registered: 12/10/15
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I have Grand Marquis 2006 and I feel there is also problem with instrument cluster plug when I push it hard odo show very nice display any one experienced this ? or Do I need to go for soldering job.

Thanks

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#3444401 - 11/21/16 11:15 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Start with the soldering job. The connector pins can and do experience cracking also. When you push, you deflect it just enough for the pin to make contact. You also happen to push enough for other components to make contact, so go over the board with a magnifier, and touch up the odo display pins and indicated components while you are in there anyway.

Alex.
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#3465945 - 12/10/16 08:04 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
MrRouter Offline
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Registered: 12/10/15
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Loc: KSA
Thanks Alex , I have fixed my MGM 2006 Cluster based on the guide and SMDs on the front side near main connector were the real culprits here.

Regards,
MR

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#3621953 - 04/27/17 04:18 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
SH71382 Offline
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Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 10
Loc: MN
Ok so my 08 cvpi started out with two issues a couple of years ago when I bought it. First was the odometer light would occasionally dim or even go dark. Second the fuel gauge would not like to read full after I filled the tank, usually it would sit at E for hours or even a day or two, eventually it would get where it's supposed to be. It would never have an issue reading as the gas drops from driving it just took forever to read in the filling side. I generally got used to these issues and knew how to work around them, but now that I am looking to sell the car it decides to get angry with me and now the entire cluster turns on and off randomly. Since that began I can't get the odometer to light up to get an accurate reading. This makes it rather difficult to sell with a malfunctioning cluster and not having an up to date mileage reading. Would you suggest I pull the cluster and resolder it as shown in the tutorial or simply get a new one? I've never soldered before so I don't want to toast the connection but I can't afford to take a hit on the sale price because of the problem. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks all.
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#3622345 - 04/27/17 02:02 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
xcopkar Offline
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Registered: 01/30/16
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Loc: Il
Since you never soldered before I would caution against it. It really is a skill to be learned, just like welding or brazing. Do you have any friends who can solder?

If you want to send it to me I'll do it for $30. I expect that will correct the odometer problem but I can't guarantee the functionality of the whole cluster. In fact, I would question whether or not it will correct the cluster problem.

Have you reseated the connector to the cluster and checked the fuse? Also check to see if any wires are loose in the plug.
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#3623017 - 04/28/17 12:07 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
ferg Offline
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Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 904
Loc: SE Michigan
This thread is a great guide! I just fixed the odometer thats been (mostly) dead for the last 4 years. I have very little soldering experience and never soldered on a circuit board before. The tip about being sure to hit the tiny resistors under the odometer display was spot on. I went over every solder spot on the back with a jeweler's loop and found no imperfections. Gave one of the resistors on the front a (very) little tap and it was wiggling like crazy. I could have sneezed it off the board. Anyways, it was a little tricky getting the iron in the right spot under the display but i got it back on, and the odometer is good as new! So excited!....forgot to take a pic of it lit up.... Thanks for putting this thread together. Couldnt have done it without it.


Attachments
Capture+_2017-04-27-23-49-55.png


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#3623569 - 04/28/17 05:20 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Excellent. Good thing you didn't wait much longer to attack it, no telling where that resistor would have wound up.

Alex.
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#3633218 - 05/09/17 05:11 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: xcopkar]
MattP Offline
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Registered: 11/17/11
Posts: 40
Loc: Greenville, Ohio(near dayton)
Originally Posted By xcopkar
If you want to send it to me I'll do it for $30. I expect that will correct the odometer problem but I can't guarantee the functionality of the whole cluster. In fact, I would question whether or not it will correct the cluster problem.


xcopkar would you be willing to do the odometer fix for me? I don't have a soldering iron and even if I did I don't know if I would feel comfortable doing it myself anyhow. Have you ever done it yourself before?

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#3799194 - 11/22/17 07:39 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Wade_Patton Offline
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Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 1
Loc: TN
needles simply push off/on? I'm in this far and don't care to break anything.

thanks!

never mind



Edited by Wade_Patton (11/22/17 07:54 PM)

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#3813274 - 12/06/17 03:40 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: Wade_Patton]
Fordiesel69 Offline

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Yes, needles pull off / push on. They are tight however.

I rotate them the opposite direction and mark with a pencil. Then pull them off, then that way I can get them on exact.

Speedo gets turned all the way clockwise.
Fuel gets turned all way counter clockwise.
Temp gets turned all the way clockwise.
Tach gets turned all the way clockwise.

When you put needles back on, insert them just a tad and use them to make sure the shafts stayed in the full direction before pressing them down on. So far so good on the few I have done.
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#3902482 - 03/12/18 12:00 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Fordiesel69 Offline

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There appears to be different types of failures on these clusters. I just got a hot air rework station and also a precision soldering iron for very small repairs, and am waiting on a microscope.

I spent 3 hrs resoldering each and every component and joint on the board and the issue still remains, the ODO is intermittent, some indicator lights all at the same time fail to come on with the initial key on sequence, and lastly sometimes the fuel guage reads empty.

I even went as far as using a home brew magnifier to be able to see all the legs on the main processor chip, I used the hot air and proper reflow flux to reflow all those connections to no avail either.
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#3902754 - 03/12/18 05:24 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Registered: 12/17/00
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Good possibility the cluster is just toast. I'm waiting on finding a decent non-pi cluster for mine to see if it does come down to the cluster or some outside influence is acting on it (DDM).

Alex.
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#3904354 - 03/14/18 03:07 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Fordiesel69 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 4400
Loc: Erie, PA
Originally Posted By GM_Guy
Good possibility the cluster is just toast. I'm waiting on finding a decent non-pi cluster for mine to see if it does come down to the cluster or some outside influence is acting on it (DDM).

Alex.


The cluster is never toast, its just I lack the diagnostic ability. When I send them off the AR speedometer, they always come back working rock solid. I have never been able to get any info out of them on what failed or what they did to fix. And the fact I always try to reflow the stuff first, I cannot tell cosmetically what they did or what I did to identify.

The actual labor part of doing the repair is cake work with a hot air station and small tip iron, but the diag is where it is difficult.
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-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior, Smokestone Metallic, 96K / 249 Hrs
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior, Black, 133K / 1643 Hrs
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-'14 Fusion S - 160K

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#3907522 - 03/19/18 12:19 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
EMILBUS Offline
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Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 38
Loc: PA
I've been avoiding this for over 2 years but FINALLY tore into the cluster this weekend.

My specific problem was that the odometer, high beam indictor, gas gauge, and some other dummy lights would malfunction intermittently. They hardly worked at all when the temperature was below 45F here in PA.

What I found was that the 32-pin connector seems to be my problem NOT the board components or solder joints.

More details:
Getting the unit apart wasn't much of an issue and I used a USB microscope for the up close & personal views. What I found was that the existing factory solder joints all look pretty good. However, I put some heat to the aforementioned joints (odometer resistors, connector pins, etc.) for good measure in case there was something I didn't see. This didn't help at all. When I had lost all hope and began re-installing the cluster, I accidentally found that if I put some downward & forward pressure on the 32-pin plug, the problematic lights would illuminate!!! From the driver's seat, the pressure would be down towards the pedals and (pull) towards the steering wheel which is away from the front of the circuit board. This was consistently repeatable.

Due to this glimmer of hope, I spent several more hours trying to solve the issue at the plug & receptacle but with little luck. The circuit board was removed from the cluster assembly and I took countless trips between the work bench and the car to test any tweaks that I made which included (but not limited to), de-duster spray, contact cleaner, reflowing all connector joints, bending the pins in various directions, removing the latch mechanism on the plug, check all wires going into the plug from the harness, etc., etc.)

I still wasn't able to get a 100% fix but everything started working fine about 2 minutes into my test drive. I'll be keeping an eye on this through the week to see if is a good fix. Anyway, this was a baffling discover because everyone says the cluster has faults but I found that my electrical plug connection is the issue.

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#3908618 - 03/20/18 06:38 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: Fordiesel69]
GM_Guy Offline
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18663
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By Fordiesel69

The cluster is never toast, its just I lack the diagnostic ability. When I send them off the AR speedometer, they always come back working rock solid. I have never been able to get any info out of them on what failed or what they did to fix. And the fact I always try to reflow the stuff first, I cannot tell cosmetically what they did or what I did to identify.

The actual labor part of doing the repair is cake work with a hot air station and small tip iron, but the diag is where it is difficult.


Toast as it relates to the DIY'er, not a shop setup with the expensive tools to program them and who has access to the software.

There is a single microcontroller on board that contains pretty much everything, software, odometer value storage, control for the various cluster functions.

The rest of the board is support systems, and yes, good possibility the trouble lies there, but good luck tracking down an intermittant. Nothing I metered caused me concern.

Alex.
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#3909106 - 03/21/18 11:10 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: EMILBUS]
Fordiesel69 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 4400
Loc: Erie, PA
We need to find out how to reflow the processor chip. I did not have the proper paste to do so, but I did reflow mine. I ended up getting upset and spent 2hrs resoldering the entire circuit board one part at a time. Still nothing.

Sent to AR speedometer and all is well.. I dont get it.
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rant2 ******Need your heater core replaced? Click Here******rant2
-'99 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.55 Trac-Loc(DK), Cloth Interior, Black Honeycomb Grill, Black PI Trunk Bezel, Silverstars, 183K
-'00 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.55 (R2), Cloth Interior, Black PI Trunk Bezel, 03+ Full Wheel Covers, Silverstars, 115K
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior, Smokestone Metallic, 96K / 249 Hrs
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior, Black, 133K / 1643 Hrs
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior w/ Carpet, Norsea Blue, 157K / 597 Hrs
-'07 F-150 4x4 - Extended Cab, 3.55's, White w/ Grey interior, 167K
-'14 Fusion S - 160K

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#3909330 - 03/21/18 09:22 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18663
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
Plain old extra fine tip soldering iron. Its a surface mount IC, nothing special about it.

AR is setup up for this, thats all they do. They can test the full function of the cluster, check the code, rewrite the code, have access to proprietary parts, possibly even at one time where a factory authorized repair center so plenty of insider info they don't share, its one thing when you know the workings of the thing it makes it all that much faster to repair. I know for some of the stuff I repair regularily the sounds it makes, or does not make, or an extra click, etc, is my biggest diagnostic tool, you don't get there by only working on one or two of the things. But also getting up close and personal to recognize the noises it is supposed to make and for how long. No service manual teaches you that, just experience.


Alex.
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#3927930 - 04/12/18 08:56 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Fordiesel69 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 4400
Loc: Erie, PA
So moving forward...for those of use who want to buy the resoldering equipment, it would be awsome to find out actually where these problem areas are. How we do that, Im not sure. I was considering takeing super high res photos of every joint, then sending away let it get fixed, then rephoto it again and look for the repair areas.

On a side note, I have a very high success rate with most circuit board repair from pinball machines, F-150 overhead displays, F150 odometers, etc.... Im struggling with these crown vic clusters however.
_________________________
rant2 ******Need your heater core replaced? Click Here******rant2
-'99 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.55 Trac-Loc(DK), Cloth Interior, Black Honeycomb Grill, Black PI Trunk Bezel, Silverstars, 183K
-'00 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.55 (R2), Cloth Interior, Black PI Trunk Bezel, 03+ Full Wheel Covers, Silverstars, 115K
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior, Smokestone Metallic, 96K / 249 Hrs
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior, Black, 133K / 1643 Hrs
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior w/ Carpet, Norsea Blue, 157K / 597 Hrs
-'07 F-150 4x4 - Extended Cab, 3.55's, White w/ Grey interior, 167K
-'14 Fusion S - 160K

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#3937858 - 04/25/18 10:15 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: Fordiesel69]
EMILBUS Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 38
Loc: PA
How much $$ for AR speedometer to look at it? How quickly can they turn it around?

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#3945090 - 05/04/18 06:11 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
4U2NV Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/07/18
Posts: 8
Loc: BC, Canada
the title on this thread should be UNSOLVED

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#3992568 - 08/25/18 10:15 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Jamesbush Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 7
Loc: Florida
Sweet Wright up but the pictures are missing any way to fix that by chance

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#3992608 - 08/26/18 09:46 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Registered: 12/17/00
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Loc: London, Ontario Canada
Until the forum admin fix things, no.
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#3992610 - 08/26/18 09:53 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
BlackVic_P71 Offline
Grand Poobah

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 14602
Loc: LI, NY
Originally Posted By GM_Guy
Until the forum admin fix things, no.

Hadn't noticed that even pictures hosted here are a victim of the [censored] by Vertical Scope
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Originally Posted By Jeremy Clarkson
The future is very fast and extremely quiet...but a bit burny.

1989 Ford Crown Victoria Country Squire - 347
2005 Crown Victoria LX Sport with Stainless Works full exhaust, Addco swaybars, Heinous control arms, Powerslot rotors, Hawk HPS pads
Accufab plenum for a DBW Panther
Blue LED buttons/switches how to

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#3992614 - 08/26/18 09:56 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Killed my avatar as well, had to reupload it.
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#3992616 - 08/26/18 02:30 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Jamesbush Offline
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Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 7
Loc: Florida
Dam that sucks big is they any way I could get those pics by chance need to do this fix maybe by email or messaging here my email is [email protected] any help appreciated

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#3992658 - 08/27/18 05:15 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18663
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
Solder the connector, solder the surface mount components UNDER the odometer display, and resolder the legs of the odometer. Then eyeball the rest of the through hole components and see if they need a touch up. It'll all be self explanatory once you got it apart and looking at it.

Alex.
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#3992660 - 08/27/18 05:34 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Jamesbush Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 7
Loc: Florida
Thanks a lot appreciate it

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#3992662 - 08/27/18 05:36 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Jamesbush Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/18/18
Posts: 7
Loc: Florida
Thanks a lot appreciate it

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#3997756 - 12/07/18 03:27 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
RdWrir Offline
n00b

Registered: 11/12/18
Posts: 12
Loc: IL
Thank you for this post.

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#3998362 - 12/15/18 09:38 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
DutchYellowCab Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 8
Loc: Netherlands
Hi. Pictures in top post seems to have disappeared. Is this a forum error? Can it be fixed?
I finally dare to start this adventure but not without some photo material next to me on my desk.
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2006, 2009, 2011 Crown Victoria
2000, 2002 Lincoln Town Car
2003 Lincoln Navigator

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#3998584 - 12/17/18 09:39 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18663
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
Forum issue. Looks like most every circuit board in existance. Short version: Resolder the surface mount parts under the odometer display, resolder the display standoffs, the high watt resistors and the connector.
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#4001232 - 01/17/19 08:33 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
PYPY Offline

Former LEO, P71 fan.
Over the Hill

Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 1196
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
A most excellent tutorial, GM_Guy...thanks for posting it, sir.

I currently have an intermittent dimming odometer situation regarding my ā€™07 P71 that I purchased new in 2007. Unfortunately, this fix is way above my pay grade...Iā€™d screw the pooch in no time.
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'07 P71, Silver Birch (JP), Mods - FRPP Trac-Lok LSD & 3.73 Gears/SCT Tune/Ford Accessories, Daily Driver, 1st Owner - Purchased New MAY07.
'01 Mustang Bullitt GT, Dark Highland Green (PY) - 3875 of 5582, No Mods - 100% Stock, Recreational Driver, 1st Owner - Purchased New AUG01.

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#4004100 - 02/13/19 09:54 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
billbishop7575 Offline
n00b

Registered: 02/12/19
Posts: 20
Loc: NJ
Going to try this with my F150 damn odometer keeps cutting out intermitently

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#4015696 - 05/27/19 09:02 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
captahab Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/18
Posts: 139
Loc: Pensacola Florida area
All the pics are dead...........
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'08 CVPI: Peelformance White, mostly stock with 176,500 on the clock right now. Mods coming as money, time, and shop space allow. Right now; Metco arms and Watts arms, 3.73s, Addco 650 rear/Addco 2196 front sway bars, front bar lock collars, 2015 Mustang GT 19" wheels, ADTR adjustable coil-over kit, Big Brake front brake upgrade on fresh spindles/hubs, SPC front Camber bolt kit. JModded valve body and Marty 91 Tune.
Awaiting install: Chin spoiler and Marauder deck lid spoiler, 75mm throttle body and SR Performance plenum, long-tube headers and full exhaust,Focus Fogs and relay mods. Previous owner added Tan MGM split bench front seats. (Lost to drowning in Hurricane Sally, Sept 15th 2020)

'07 CVPI. Agency repaint to what looks like Windveil Blue, also riding on Mustang 18" wheels. 168,000 and in serious need of suspension work.

'97 Lincoln MKVIII: Lots of mods and still modding.

'88 Thunderbird TurboCoupe: Ugly but lots of mods happening.

'84 Mustang GT Turbo: lifelong (it seems) project.

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#4026308 - 08/07/19 01:01 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
TheBrownNote Offline
Rookie

Registered: 01/16/17
Posts: 71
Loc: Texas
I've used Module Repair Pro before (ebay and their own homepage) They repair our clusters and ABS modules. They rebuilt a module for me and it works great and for like $150-200 bucks.

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#4026314 - 08/07/19 02:25 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: TheBrownNote]
Hoonigan413 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/03/19
Posts: 9
Loc: Ware, MA
If you don't mind my asking, about how long did it take for them to receive, fix and then send back to you? I was looking into them unfortunately my car is my daily so the least amount of time down the better
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2008 P71 "icki vici"
~186k Miles
K&N Drop In
True Duals
Flowmaster Super 44 W/ Cat Delete
Xtune Black Tailights
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#4044412 - 01/22/20 04:12 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
4U2NV Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/07/18
Posts: 8
Loc: BC, Canada
is anybody else unable to see the photos that were posted? Is it something on my end, or is this so old the pictures have faded off??? lol. Please let me know. thank you

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#4044416 - 01/22/20 05:05 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
Posting Addict

Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18663
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
It is the forum that has borked up photos, can't attach anything either. If you pull your cluster, the primary parts that need touching up should be apparent, especially the 2009+ cluster as they integrated a whole lot of components at that time.

Alex.
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#4046638 - 02/07/20 11:27 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
bugmenot Offline
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Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 1
Loc: United States
I had the images saved up on my computer. Here you guys go https://imgur.com/a/OXDr0VF

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#4046664 - 02/07/20 05:22 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Registered: 12/17/00
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Loc: London, Ontario Canada
Hey thanks for posting those!
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#4050162 - 03/04/20 11:19 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Fordiesel69 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 4400
Loc: Erie, PA
UPDATE: So far i'm on #2 successfully repaired. I will do two more this month a let y'all know if these are a success.

I got a different type of "no clean" reflow flux that is advertised on ebay for playstation reflow work. You put it on and watch it close as you reflow with hot air. Then you do NOT clean it off. It will act as a protective barrier coat from vibration and moisture. I switch to it on all my electronics and although it looks horrible, it works every time.

I also found a bunch of small chips that require reflow, by taking close up photos of the ones coming back from A/R speedometer.

Time will tell but so far the two I repaired that were dead, are still working perfect. If this success continues I will be sure to update again with hi res photos and a slightly lengthened tutorial.
_________________________
rant2 ******Need your heater core replaced? Click Here******rant2
-'99 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.55 Trac-Loc(DK), Cloth Interior, Black Honeycomb Grill, Black PI Trunk Bezel, Silverstars, 183K
-'00 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.55 (R2), Cloth Interior, Black PI Trunk Bezel, 03+ Full Wheel Covers, Silverstars, 115K
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior, Smokestone Metallic, 96K / 249 Hrs
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior, Black, 133K / 1643 Hrs
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior w/ Carpet, Norsea Blue, 157K / 597 Hrs
-'07 F-150 4x4 - Extended Cab, 3.55's, White w/ Grey interior, 167K
-'14 Fusion S - 160K

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#4050346 - 03/05/20 02:54 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Fordiesel69 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 4400
Loc: Erie, PA
SUCCESS........#3 fixed.

Good story for y'all. I decided to pull the cluster before going home to solder it up. It was loose in the dash ready to be unplugged when it agically came alive. It showed it had ZERO fuel and the low fuel light was on. Just getting the car its typical for the auction to sell them with little to no gas at all. When attmepting to fill the tank, it all bubbled up all over my shoes and the tank would not take any more fuel. This is common when the vent tube is installed wrong and I have experianced this many times.

After resoldering the instrument cluster I found that the tank was full all along. The state of pa gave me a full tank with this car, that was worth the bad instrument cluster all day long.

Works perfect and passed my flex test. I reassembled and now the wait begins to see if my soldering skills pay off.


Edited by Fordiesel69 (03/05/20 02:56 PM)
_________________________
rant2 ******Need your heater core replaced? Click Here******rant2
-'99 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.55 Trac-Loc(DK), Cloth Interior, Black Honeycomb Grill, Black PI Trunk Bezel, Silverstars, 183K
-'00 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.55 (R2), Cloth Interior, Black PI Trunk Bezel, 03+ Full Wheel Covers, Silverstars, 115K
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior, Smokestone Metallic, 96K / 249 Hrs
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior, Black, 133K / 1643 Hrs
-'08 Crown Vic Police Interceptor (SAP), 3.27, Cloth Interior w/ Carpet, Norsea Blue, 157K / 597 Hrs
-'07 F-150 4x4 - Extended Cab, 3.55's, White w/ Grey interior, 167K
-'14 Fusion S - 160K

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#4065126 - 05/29/20 11:16 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: Fordiesel69]
Titans1854 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/11/19
Posts: 105
Loc: HB, CA
I hope you can find some time to create a tutorial. I had my cluster out a few times with no luck, blank odometer. Would love to know how many miles my car has and how many hours. I'm at the end of a year long process to repaint it so I'm hoping it doesn't have a ton of hours.
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2011 Crown Victoria P7B Alhambra City Police (7/18'-4/19' R.I.P. rod knock)

2007 Crown Victoria P71 CHP and Saddleback College (7/19'-Present) 139,000 mi, 4888 idle hours, 1000 painting hours

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#4065136 - 05/29/20 11:54 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18663
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
Did you hot air reflow the main IC? If so, you may just have a cluster that isn't going to come back to life. Time to keep an eye out for another one.
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#4069018 - 06/28/20 03:49 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Titans1854 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/11/19
Posts: 105
Loc: HB, CA
There's a YouTube video of someone remelting some of the soldering points on and around the odometer and that's what I did. I've soldered plenty of wires together but I'm not expert on soldering especially soldering on a circuit board. I've looked into it some but I'm unclear what hot air reflowing is
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2011 Crown Victoria P7B Alhambra City Police (7/18'-4/19' R.I.P. rod knock)

2007 Crown Victoria P71 CHP and Saddleback College (7/19'-Present) 139,000 mi, 4888 idle hours, 1000 painting hours

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#4069062 - 06/29/20 08:45 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18663
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
Ever watch Louis Rossman? That tool he uses to remove components is a hot air gun--think hair dryer on steroids. Due to the close spacing of the legs, and the tiny traces, using a regular soldering iron can be risky unless you got micro tips and a good magnifier to really see what you are contacting with the iron to reduce the risk of damaging anything. Hot air + paste flux usually does a good job of reflowing the solder that is already there.
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#4113448 - 06/24/21 07:03 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
Posting Addict

Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18663
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
mini-update:
Original cvpi cluster replaced with an mgm message center cluster. No problems since, and a suspicion I have had for some time about the erratic fuel guage being cluster related and not fuel sender related is confirmed. At least in my case (insert usual caveats here).
With the cluster swap I have a fuel guage that moves steadily with fuel consumption. And will intantly react when you fillup.

My stand on this; if all you got is a dim or flickering odometer, do the original outlined resoldering in this thread. It'll bring that to life.

If you have other issues such as gauges that are erratic, odometer randomnly just goes dark (unrelated to the original fix) along with every other indicator light (except turn signals as that is direct signal from the lcm) do a hot air resolder of the main processor IC. If that does not work, or you end up with a brick like I did, find a replacement cluster & if you opt for the message center cluster you might want the center trim strip with the 4 switches--you will have to add three wires to the new cluster to hook up the switch array. Or roll your own with some momentary switches and appropriate resistors.

BEFORE you do that (the soldering/hot airing the processor), get forscan and make note of the instrument cluster data while the original cluster is still in the car. You will need to write this to the new cluster you get, regardless of what kind of car it came out of. If you don't you will have false warning lights for options you do not have, or no warnings for options you do have. It'll be a grand total of 2 sets of 4 hex digits, the 2nd set usually being all zeros. Ie: A800 0000 (thats a pi cluster, with hour meter, tpms
warning disabled, no traction control).

-It matters not what options the car you pull the cluster from has. Forscan will take care of that for you when you write your original data to it.
-MGM or CV matters not. Pointers will be white with the lights off on an mgm cluster. If you like red pointers, swap the mgm pointers for the ones from your original cluster.
-no idea about the town car cluster, it'll probably work, as its also canbus, but that is an experiment for you to undertake on your own. Same thing; gotta write your original cvpi cluster data to the tc cluster with forscan. I suggest getting your hands on a tc evtm and compare it to the cvgm.
-2007-2011; canbus cars.
-you will enable the hour meter (starts at zero) on a message center cluster when you write your original cluster data to it with forscan if your car had an hour meter.
Or, you can eliminate the hour meter entirely if you want by modifying the cluster data appropriately.
-mileage and hours are stored in the cluster. You will get whatever mileage is on the donor cluster. Legally (check your locals, what the rules are for me may not be the same for you). Sticker on your door with original cluster mileage and hours + date, and mileage hours on your replacement cluster.



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#4113454 - 06/24/21 07:35 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Davidzq Offline
Climber

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 566
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By GM_Guy

-no idea about the town car cluster, it'll probably work, as its also canbus, but that is an experiment for you to undertake on your own. Same thing; gotta write your original cvpi cluster data to the tc cluster with forscan. I suggest getting your hands on a tc evtm and compare it to the cvgm.


The Towncar cluster is physically identical, just with a different gauge face glued on. However, the Towncar cluster will disable your AC compressor.
I've done a small bit of experimenting with this, including changing As-Built data, but have this far been unable to determine the cause or the fix. Seems to be something in the firmware related to the CANBUS communication.
Those who want the look of the TC cluster are encouraged to get both a TC and Vic/MGM message center cluster and simply swap the gauge face and needles.
_________________________
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Member of Northwest Panthers Car Club

2008 P71, Norsea Blue SAP
-Message Center cluster retrofit
-Towncar Signature L heated power seats
-Long overhead console
-Compustar remote start/security

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#4113502 - 06/25/21 02:30 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
Posting Addict

Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18663
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
Interesting fact about the a/c. Does the TC have in in-cab temperature sensor thats tied in with the hvac? (is the eatc the same as the cvgm's with eatc, or something fancier?)
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#4113524 - 06/25/21 07:57 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Davidzq Offline
Climber

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 566
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By GM_Guy
Interesting fact about the a/c. Does the TC have in in-cab temperature sensor thats tied in with the hvac? (is the eatc the same as the cvgm's with eatc, or something fancier?)


Yes, it has the same temp sensor as civilian Vic/Grand Marquis with EATC.
Though the Towncar EATC (and the entire HVAC system) is completely different (Towncars have electric mode doors and dual zone temperature control).

The instrument cluster controls the MS-CAN network, and serves as the bridge between the MS-CAN and HS-CAN.
Because of this, I assume there must be some specific uneditable firmware programming in the TC cluster to support the different EATC system (which is a MS-CAN module). The signal from the EATC to PCM to command the AC is done via the MS/HS-CAN network on Towncars.
However, on Vic/MGM, the EATC/Manual controls provide power to the AC cycling (pressure) switch to command the AC. The EATC is part of the MS-CAN network, but manual controls are not networked at all.
SO even though the Towncar system is different, I don't see why it should be affecting the AC on other panthers, and yet it does.
_________________________
David Hensley
Member of Northwest Panthers Car Club

2008 P71, Norsea Blue SAP
-Message Center cluster retrofit
-Towncar Signature L heated power seats
-Long overhead console
-Compustar remote start/security

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#4113570 - 06/26/21 12:18 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
Posting Addict

Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18663
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
You wouldn't have a pinout for the ltc instrument cluster connector would you? See if theres a pin thats populated on the tc that doesn't exist on the cvgm.
And for curiosity sake, what did you program the tc instrument cluster to (hex data)?


Edited by GM_Guy (06/26/21 12:20 PM)
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#4113578 - 06/26/21 01:24 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Davidzq Offline
Climber

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 566
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By GM_Guy
You wouldn't have a pinout for the ltc instrument cluster connector would you? See if theres a pin thats populated on the tc that doesn't exist on the cvgm.
And for curiosity sake, what did you program the tc instrument cluster to (hex data)?


Pinout is identical, asside from the following additional on TC:
24 - Parking Aid Enable
25 - Parking Aid Disable
28 - Compass Data -
29 - Compass Data +


I tried a few different As-Built configurations from LX/MGM, all resulted in the same AC inoperable.

I was working on further deciding of As-Built data, but ETIS went down a couple months ago, which has really hindered my efforts.
I've found that many TCs have bit 5 enabled, but many do not, and base MGMs (non-message center) also have it enabled.
Bit 39 is enabled in all TC, but only in non-MC Vic/MGM (including P71).
Bits 33-40 otherwise seem to be randomly enabled/disabled across all panthers, with no visible correlation to options.


Edited by Davidzq (06/26/21 01:34 PM)
_________________________
David Hensley
Member of Northwest Panthers Car Club

2008 P71, Norsea Blue SAP
-Message Center cluster retrofit
-Towncar Signature L heated power seats
-Long overhead console
-Compustar remote start/security

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#4113592 - 06/26/21 07:40 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18663
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
Whats the latest hex data you flashed to the cluster?

What does your car have? ie traction control, tpms. And wether you want tpms warning on or not if you got it.

Want an active hour meter? Flash this to it 0A80 0000 No tc, no tpms and see what happens with the a/c.

How are you getting bits 39 & 40? At most there is 32 bits in the IC string, with only the first batch of 4 hex digits usually being populated, and the remaining three usually zero's.
ie 0A80 0000 0000 0000 + two hex digits for the checksum (which I don't change).

Give me the last hex you wrote to it. I'll see if what info I have jives with what you got.
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#4113598 - 06/26/21 09:17 PM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
Davidzq Offline
Climber

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 566
Loc: Seattle, WA
The cluster As-Built is blocks of 4, 4, and 2.
For a total of 40 bits.

This was many months ago that I played with the As-Built, I don't even have a LTC cluster anymore to play with.
As such, I don't remember exactly what the As-Built I programmed in was, but there were at least three attempts using 07+ LX/LS As-Builts, representing a pool of options (air suspension, TPMS, etc). I have a few spreadsheets with various VINs/As-Built/options, do I'm able to customize to suit whatever needs I may have None of the known bits should have any affect on the AC issue, and it seems none of the unknown bits had an effect either.

My recent As-Built decoding work was actually focused on the TC Driver Door Module, as they will usually (but not always šŸ¤·šŸ¼ā€ā™‚ļø) cause issues with the door ajar sensors and lock functions in other panthers. And with nine strings of 48 bits each, there's plenty of opportunity for differences.
_________________________
David Hensley
Member of Northwest Panthers Car Club

2008 P71, Norsea Blue SAP
-Message Center cluster retrofit
-Towncar Signature L heated power seats
-Long overhead console
-Compustar remote start/security

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#4113638 - 06/27/21 10:50 AM Re: Dim/Flickering Odometer Fix [Re: GM_Guy]
GM_Guy Offline
Posting Addict

Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18663
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
Okay, 40,I'm new to counting. =-) but I don't include the checksum since it doesn't control an option status. I let the car do what it wants with that, never been able to write a checksum without forscan complaining even if its verbatim from another cars as built data.

Ultimately, it is only the first batch of four hex digits that are of any use to us, everything else is 0000's in every car I looked at. Ultimately, 16 binary bits to work with.
ie 0A80 0000 0000 0000 0000 1f including the two for checksum.
0A80 is all we got to work with, which ultimately is 16 binary bits we have to toggle.
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