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#4053456 - 03/20/20 11:16 PM Re: The Boxy Box Wagon [Re: Old_Guy_Stu]
Bellwestern80 Offline

CVN Discord: Edsel
Over the Hill

Registered: 07/01/11
Posts: 4125
Loc: Evans, Georgia
Originally Posted By Old_Guy_Stu
So you can use the HO upper with the lo-po lower? Reason I ask, I gotta do valve cover gaskets soon. And if the upper has to come off to do that, might as well upgrade. Mustang upper & throttle body bolt on?

EDIT: Looks like a Mustang throttle body has the wrong throttle lever (because it's mounted on the passenger side), and it's pressed on. How do you get around that?

Told ya, dumbass questions.

Yes. HO upper bolts right on. I've still got my original lower in this whole mix.

That said, to use the intake and throttle body, both need some work, since everything's backwards. As far as flipping stuff on the intake, you'll need your LoPo vacuum tree, and then you just need to 180* everything. The vacuum tree and vacuum port barb that runs to the PCV just screw into the intake. Just unscrew them and flip sides.

'88+ intakes (HO and regular) seem to have received an extra vacuum assist for the PCV system through a port that threads in to the far end of the runners. The end opposite of it has a threaded plug. Those'll need to be reversed as well. My '87 did not have that extra port, but I thought it novel when I encountered it. I guess the early SEFI intake did not provide enough feed for the PCV.

As far as the throttle lever goes, you'll need to take yours off the LoPo one. The HO one you can discard after you remove it. To get them off, just take a grinder to that little tab on the bottom. It might take a little work, but the arm and spring will come off the shaft. Just swap it over to the HO throttle body. It might take a little work getting the spring on correctly. After that, just either weld, JB Weld, or drill-n'-tap + bolt the arm to the shaft.

Just know you must re-use the Panther EGR spacer since it has the bracket studs for the throttle linkage. It will need to be bored out to make it work. I contacted JeffBoudah and he bored mine out on a CNC machine. The biggest thing to be aware of is that the EGR spacer does have coolant run through it. Mine is and had been bypassed, but some people have reported the coolant side doesn't seal up well after being bored, resulting in a leak. Personally I wouldn't try running coolant through it, and I went as far as even eliminating that whole coolant pipe that runs under the upper intake and just ran a length of 3/4" heater hose from the heater core to the water pump. It's been fine like that.

Oh, and the studs that hold that EGR and TB sandwich together are disgusting to deal with 30 years later. If the coolant has ever leaked onto them, have fun. Steel studs, through aluminum. You know exactly what's happening there. Now I planned ahead, and purchased a spare factory Panther EGR spacer from someone on GMN and had it bored so I didn't have to do this twice, just the one time on the Mustang intake.



Only one stud actually came out clean on that Mustang intake. The donor car had started leaking around the gasket, soaking the studs. The other three are clearly bent/broken from almost an hour spent beating, prying, and using other mechanical methods to separate the assembly. Very pleasant and my intake has some tool marks at the top where a screwdriver was hammered on to get the EGR spacer to start separating some.


I personally had no desire to install new studs, so instead I just used like 2-1/2" (don't quote me there, I bought three sizes) bolts and washers for reassembly and torqued them to 20 ft/lbs. They did get coated in anti-seize so hopefully they don't corrode the way the uncoated stuff does. It's been working for two years, so I'll say it's not a bad idea.



I know that's a nice wall of text, but the work is pretty straight forwards, but if you take care of whatever prep work you can, you'll save time. I'd say if you can get a cheap HO upper with the TB, I'd toss it on.


Also, here's a base line run 0-60. Not super exciting from a standing start, especially if you don't kinda load it up a little before launching.
_________________________

My Cars:
-1964 Mercury Comet 202 (116K Miles | 170 I6) - Restoration Project
-1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles | 360 V8) - Waiting on a TorqueFlite
-1987 Mercury Colony Park LS (330K Miles | H.O. 302) - March 2017, November 2019, & September 2021 POTM Winner
-1997 Mercury Grand Marquis LS (230K Miles | nPI 4.6) - The Daily Workhorse & April 2013 POTM Winner

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#4053516 - 03/21/20 06:06 AM Re: The Boxy Box Wagon [Re: Bellwestern80]
Old_Guy_Stu Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 2795
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Thanks for taking the trouble to answer that. Now I'll contemplate whether or not to do it.
_________________________

1988 CVLX Formal Roof (Love Boat) POTM July 2019, Aug 2020, & Oct 2021, 58K
E-code lights w/ relays, LEDs w/ switchbacks, 15x8 Ansen slots w/ 255/60 BFG's, Kenwood stereo, various hacks.
This, of course, was merely the semi-delirious notion of a fever-patient, but I remember that it struck me at the time as being eminently practical and feasible.

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#4072322 - 07/30/20 01:11 AM Re: The Boxy Box Wagon [Re: Bellwestern80]
Bellwestern80 Offline

CVN Discord: Edsel
Over the Hill

Registered: 07/01/11
Posts: 4125
Loc: Evans, Georgia
If you look past the dent I've not dealt with for two years, you'll see a "new" license plate. laugh



Georgia upped the year requirement to run an historical tag specific to year of manufacture to 1989. Now I get to our 1983-1989 plate since this one has a 1987 registration sticker. All I have to do is keep an affidavit from our local tag office in the car with the tag I was originally issued.
_________________________

My Cars:
-1964 Mercury Comet 202 (116K Miles | 170 I6) - Restoration Project
-1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles | 360 V8) - Waiting on a TorqueFlite
-1987 Mercury Colony Park LS (330K Miles | H.O. 302) - March 2017, November 2019, & September 2021 POTM Winner
-1997 Mercury Grand Marquis LS (230K Miles | nPI 4.6) - The Daily Workhorse & April 2013 POTM Winner

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#4082250 - 10/27/20 10:16 PM Re: The Boxy Box Wagon [Re: Bellwestern80]
Bellwestern80 Offline

CVN Discord: Edsel
Over the Hill

Registered: 07/01/11
Posts: 4125
Loc: Evans, Georgia
Time for a little periodic update...

I think it goes without saying that Dorman makes some hit and miss products. I will say that my faith in them making anything out of plastic that's supposed to do an important job is quite weak.

About five months ago I had a quick disconnect on the return side of the transmission oil cooler at the transmission blow out. Replaced it with a Dorman unit. The first sign of things to come was the first one I got broke when I went to insert the line in. The plastic retained just cracked and fell out. Got a second one, and it clipped in just fine. No leaks, and I figured that was the end of the story...

"Actually, no, [censored] you," it told me.


Luckily it decided to do that while I was pulling into work, so I only traveled roughly 200 feet. It blew out when I got on the accelerator while I had a clear gap to make a left turn. It promptly started puking onto the catalytic converter resulting in a awful smelling smoke screen. On top of that, there's also a very nice trail of oil that has since remained on the road and parking lot that leads right to the spot I usually park in. smile

Anyway, to avoid that again, I did a less than elegant repair.


The quick disconnect fitting was replaced with a 1/4-18 NPT barb fitting, and a short piece of transmission oil cooler hose was used to couple that to the hard line. I also used two fuel injection style hose clamps to avoid chewing up the hose with a traditional worm gear hose clamp. So far, it's held up under hard acceleration, and also being a useful tool in moving to a new place!

The '97 sat this one out this time around, and it's still waiting to be moved over to the new place, so I've been dailying the '87 for a few weeks. Luckily, neither car should have to deal with the elements 24/7 any time soon.

It's quite nice having a garage to work in again so I don't have to drive all the way to my mom's.


Also, Panther game stays strong here. It'll be pretty nice when all three generations are present.

_________________________

My Cars:
-1964 Mercury Comet 202 (116K Miles | 170 I6) - Restoration Project
-1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles | 360 V8) - Waiting on a TorqueFlite
-1987 Mercury Colony Park LS (330K Miles | H.O. 302) - March 2017, November 2019, & September 2021 POTM Winner
-1997 Mercury Grand Marquis LS (230K Miles | nPI 4.6) - The Daily Workhorse & April 2013 POTM Winner

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#4085156 - 11/21/20 12:03 AM Re: The Boxy Box Wagon [Re: Bellwestern80]
CrystalPistol Offline
Banned
Over the Hill

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 3474
Loc: Shenandoah Valley
Enjoyed the thread. I grew up with at least one wagon in the driveway always.

First one was a '56 Chevrolet, 265, Powerglide, single so I figure Dad bought the 2bbl version. It was new. Last one was a '68 Plymouth Satelite Sport Wagon, 383, 4bbl, A-727, duals, 11x3" front drums like on Fury police cars then , HD suspension, trailer tow pack ... surprised a few Road Runners, a GTO or two, etc.

Dad passed in '69, Mom remarried in '73, Stepbrother totaled "The Wagon" soon after.


Edited by CrystalPistol (11/21/20 12:06 AM)
_________________________

________________________________________ ____________________
Problems huh? Then Read THE Book. Signed: Natural Borne Neanderthal .







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#4086934 - 12/06/20 09:10 PM Re: The Boxy Box Wagon [Re: CrystalPistol]
Bellwestern80 Offline

CVN Discord: Edsel
Over the Hill

Registered: 07/01/11
Posts: 4125
Loc: Evans, Georgia
Originally Posted By CrystalPistol
Enjoyed the thread. I grew up with at least one wagon in the driveway always.

First one was a '56 Chevrolet, 265, Powerglide, single so I figure Dad bought the 2bbl version. It was new. Last one was a '68 Plymouth Satelite Sport Wagon, 383, 4bbl, A-727, duals, 11x3" front drums like on Fury police cars then , HD suspension, trailer tow pack ... surprised a few Road Runners, a GTO or two, etc.

Dad passed in '69, Mom remarried in '73, Stepbrother totaled "The Wagon" soon after.


Thanks. I've always enjoyed trying to telling a story with photos.

I dunno why I decided to go after wagons, but maybe its just the obscurity of the traditional wagon these days that just makes it fun to daily this one from time to time. I grew up riding in sedans and minivans. The first cars I was around that my parents had, was Dad had a '89 Dodge Caravan and Mom had a '93 Mercury Sable (for some reason, that invoked the desire to find one years ago, and still kinda want one). Eventually Dad convinced Mom into an new '01 Honda Odyssey and he took her Sable since they traded the Caravan in on it.

The only wagon I'm aware of them ever owning was a brown late '80s Escort wagon that was sold before my father was stationed in Germany for a bit. That car was before I was born, so I've only seen a handful of pictures of it.



Speaking of wagons...



The '87 is back in Columbia, at least for a little while. Nick came down and picked it up this afternoon so it can go to the transmission shop that rebuilt the original AOD in 2014. We suspect the sun gear failed last month as I was backing into my driveway, which left me with no reverse, 2nd, or 4th gear. He has pretty good connections with the shop he uses, so said he'd help me with it. I was planning on driving it up since it will shift between 1st and 3rd, and theoretically could maintain probably 60 MPH without winding the motor up too much, but he was in town getting a K-Code (3.55 locking) axle out of a '88 Country Squire at the local junkyard, and offered to tow the '87 back up.

While it's being repaired, I did send it along with a new, higher stall torque converter. Factory AOD units typically stall around 1600 RPM, which is fine on a LoPo, but the HO doesn't start doing real business until at least 2300 RPM, so it makes for a very un-spirited take off. The replacement is ranged between 2200-2500 RPM, which should be ideal in this application. I'm also going to see if they can refit the shift governor with either a medium speed or high speed unit. Medium speed ones were on trucks and shifted them around 4500ish RPM, and the high speed was closer to 4900 RPM. The low speed unit on my car didn't even meet the rated 4100 RPM limit and would shift at 3900 RPM.

If all goes well, it'll be a fair bit quicker from a standing start and won't shift in the middle of the power band.
_________________________

My Cars:
-1964 Mercury Comet 202 (116K Miles | 170 I6) - Restoration Project
-1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles | 360 V8) - Waiting on a TorqueFlite
-1987 Mercury Colony Park LS (330K Miles | H.O. 302) - March 2017, November 2019, & September 2021 POTM Winner
-1997 Mercury Grand Marquis LS (230K Miles | nPI 4.6) - The Daily Workhorse & April 2013 POTM Winner

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#4091948 - 01/15/21 08:44 PM Re: The Boxy Box Wagon [Re: Bellwestern80]
Bellwestern80 Offline

CVN Discord: Edsel
Over the Hill

Registered: 07/01/11
Posts: 4125
Loc: Evans, Georgia
The '87 finally has all the gears again! The shop that Nick uses did good work getting it back into fighting shape. It's gonna take some getting used to the 2500 RPM stall converter, however.

I didn't really get to rip on it yet simply because 90% of the drive was in damp/rainy weather, and I'm not about to figure out how the car is gonna behave without testing it on a dry surface first.

I did stop by Nick's:


He had his '89 recently at that shop too. We apparently didn't land the rear main seal correctly when we swapped the 302 from an Explorer into his car, and it started leaking after a bit. I'm glad it's finally fixed since I think that wagon has been sitting since 2017/2018 after the LoPo was determined to be junk after it started consuming a quart of oil every 200-300 miles.

He did leave me a tan cargo carpet mat in the back, so I picked that up while I was there. Helps with the noise a bit. smile


Finally home:


Only after I was about 15 miles from home did the weather look any nicer. Hopefully in the next few days I'll have some actual information on how this converter plays with the car.
_________________________

My Cars:
-1964 Mercury Comet 202 (116K Miles | 170 I6) - Restoration Project
-1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles | 360 V8) - Waiting on a TorqueFlite
-1987 Mercury Colony Park LS (330K Miles | H.O. 302) - March 2017, November 2019, & September 2021 POTM Winner
-1997 Mercury Grand Marquis LS (230K Miles | nPI 4.6) - The Daily Workhorse & April 2013 POTM Winner

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#4095648 - 02/09/21 09:03 PM Re: The Boxy Box Wagon [Re: Bellwestern80]
TheNarrator Offline
Member

Registered: 01/20/21
Posts: 298
Loc: SW Florida
That Wagon looks clean (besides the part when is got backed into)
_________________________
Click to reveal...
Originally Posted By a_d_a_m
How To Make A Weenie Whip
1 shot Canadian Club whisky (since he's not allowed to enter Canada anymore)
1 shot Captain Morgan spiced rum (since he was going to be the captain of his own ship)
a splash of 151 (to take the wrinkles out of your pants)
RC Cola to taste (served on the rocks, just like a shipwrecked boat)
Originally Posted By Old_Guy_Stu
boxes are about as aerodynamic as a cathedral.

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#4114284 - 07/05/21 09:28 PM Re: The Boxy Box Wagon [Re: Bellwestern80]
Bellwestern80 Offline

CVN Discord: Edsel
Over the Hill

Registered: 07/01/11
Posts: 4125
Loc: Evans, Georgia
Finally got around to beating the tailgate into submission, and made a major win for Box wagons, which was finding a useable dew wipe with a little modification.




Also repaired the window guides. I borrowed the ones from the damaged tailgate as the replacement gate's were worse. Essentially the side that faces the glass has a piece of rubber, and the whole thing is covered in felt. Well, usually the felt falls off, then the rubber peels away, and its then metal and glass rubbing, which also allows for a lot of floppy glass.

We used a cut up microfiber towel and headliner adhesive to mount the "new" guide cloth.





Despite the tailgate being from a 1983 or 1984 Country Squire that lived in South Carolina, the bottom edge is quite rusty and had separated in a few spots. I hit it with a lot of rust converter. I'll need to sand it some, hit it with seam sealer, and I'll go over it with some Rustoleum to slow that down. My old tailgate also had the same issues forming, so it's definitely just the nature of these things to do that from exposure.



_________________________

My Cars:
-1964 Mercury Comet 202 (116K Miles | 170 I6) - Restoration Project
-1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles | 360 V8) - Waiting on a TorqueFlite
-1987 Mercury Colony Park LS (330K Miles | H.O. 302) - March 2017, November 2019, & September 2021 POTM Winner
-1997 Mercury Grand Marquis LS (230K Miles | nPI 4.6) - The Daily Workhorse & April 2013 POTM Winner

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