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#4032080 - 09/26/19 12:19 AM '90 small block ford questions
sehansen Offline
n00b

Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 30
Loc: Southern Minnesota, USA
I've been thinking about putting together a 331 stroker for my '90 box, and I've got some questions about my block and overall project. My goals for this car/project would be a nice street/sleeper with 425hp/450tq (or less), carbureted, and with an auto tranny cause where I live there are hills everywhere.

I've been looking at the SCAT 331 stroker rotating assembly on summit racing, could I still use my factory block with the kit or would I be better off looking at an older/different block?

If I could use my block, what type of heads should I use along with the flat top pistons from the kit?

I'd also like to mention here that I'd prefer going over to carb on this engine because it would be my first project with a carb on it and I would like to tinker around with it and have fun with the car as well.
_________________________
1990 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX
1999 Ford Crown Victoria LX - Sold
2008 Mazda 6 Sport Value
1996 Honda Accord LX wagon

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#4032092 - 09/26/19 07:07 AM Re: '90 small block ford questions [Re: sehansen]
Old_Guy_Stu Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1511
Loc: Cleveland, OH
The key to making this work is going to be cam selection. The temptation to go big is strong, and it will absolutely ruin the car. Yes, you get the RUMP RUMP idle, but you lose the power brakes and cruise control, not to mention the HVAC. All that stuff needs vacuum and lots of it. To get the vacuum, you'll need an RV-type cam, and those run out of breath pretty early, like below 5000 rpm. And that limits the HP you can expect.

Head selection (chamber size) depends on what fuel you're willing to put in it. You can get a lot more power if you're willing to feed it Rockett or CAM2 at eight bucks a gallon.

425 HP is a pretty lofty goal for a small-block Ford unless you're gonna supercharge it. 425 HP with an RV cam and streetable compression ain't gonna happen.

If it was me, I'd drop a 460 in there. Easy to get a lot of mild-mannered power out of one of those, and it'll live forever doing it.
_________________________

1988 CVLX Formal Roof (Love Boat) POTM July 2019 & Aug 2020, 54K
E-code lights w/ relays, LEDs w/ switchbacks, 15x8 Ansen slots w/ 255/60 BFG's, Kenwood stereo, various hacks.
1988 CVLX (Destroyer) 1998-2001 driven to death 202K
1988 Squire (Chris Craft) 1996-1998 junkyard rescue driven to death 199K

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#4032104 - 09/26/19 09:15 AM Re: '90 small block ford questions [Re: sehansen]
AlleyG Offline
Climber

Registered: 04/28/14
Posts: 509
Loc: Raleigh, NC
Keep in mind the gear ratio. You likely have a 2.73 open in there. Need at least a 3.55 for good performance, maybe a 4.10 with a cam upgrade. Might be able to get away with a 3.27 with a 460. Trak-loc is mandatory.

Al
_________________________
2004 CVPI - 85k miles
1997 T-Bird LX - 85k miles
1994 Supra Turbo - 107k miles
Previous Fords:
1988 T-Bird, 1995 T-Bird, 1996 Cougar

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#4032130 - 09/26/19 12:36 PM Re: '90 small block ford questions [Re: sehansen]
Old_Guy_Stu Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1511
Loc: Cleveland, OH
And you'll have to feed it. Box EFI fuel lines are only 1/4 or 5/16, not nearly big enough to fuel any kind of HP.

Just re-gearing it will give you the illusion of a lot more power, at the expense of fuel economy. What fuel economy?

If you mod the engine to HO spec, use the GT40 heads and intake off a late Mountaineer, and give it some gearing you'll have a good cruiser that will move out better than stock and have enough vacuum that everything will work.


Edited by Old_Guy_Stu (09/26/19 12:39 PM)
_________________________

1988 CVLX Formal Roof (Love Boat) POTM July 2019 & Aug 2020, 54K
E-code lights w/ relays, LEDs w/ switchbacks, 15x8 Ansen slots w/ 255/60 BFG's, Kenwood stereo, various hacks.
1988 CVLX (Destroyer) 1998-2001 driven to death 202K
1988 Squire (Chris Craft) 1996-1998 junkyard rescue driven to death 199K

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#4032200 - 09/26/19 08:55 PM Re: '90 small block ford questions [Re: sehansen]
GrandMarq9807 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 4420
Loc: Virginia
I'm yet to see any modern V8 car with only a 1/4" and mostly 5/16" was history by the '70s. It's cheaper to fit one size to all vehicles than to use different sizes. Regardless of size, fuel system should be re-plumbed when switching to carb.

I have a Blue Print 415Hp 347 earmarked to go into my '69 Fairlane. Plan is to remove the slightly rumpy cam & install a Extreme Energy Comp 35-349-8. Probably kill 25 HP but be friendlier on street.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-3...ZgaAj-_EALw_wcB

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mll-b...OQaAn5dEALw_wcB
_________________________
1998 Grand Marquis LS. 96K mi. .. Stock
2007 Grand Marquis GS. 90K mi. .. Stock
1996 F-150 XLT 196K mi Beater, Stock

----------My Toys---------(links are up)
1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 4-Speed
1972 Comet GT Restomod 306, C4
1988 Turbo Coupe 331 AOD & 3.73 .. Pressurized ½ Motor is History

*****************NEW TOY!!!*********************
1969 Base Fairlane 302, C4, 45K mi(really!)

Now with P/S & PDB
Gonna wake it up with a Blue Print headed 347




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#4032216 - 09/26/19 10:35 PM Re: '90 small block ford questions [Re: sehansen]
sehansen Offline
n00b

Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 30
Loc: Southern Minnesota, USA
The cruise control and HVAC are gone on my car, so the only worry is the power brakes. I knew deep down that the 425hp goal was a very high goal, I just wanted something with a little more punch than the stock motor and could fit in my car without any hacking and fabbing of motor mounts. The car would be driven in spring/summer months but I wouldn't really drive it day to day, so MPG doesn't really shake me all that much. If the 460 is a viable replacement that would satisfy my needs, I guess I'll look into it more.
_________________________
1990 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX
1999 Ford Crown Victoria LX - Sold
2008 Mazda 6 Sport Value
1996 Honda Accord LX wagon

Top
#4032222 - 09/26/19 11:06 PM Re: '90 small block ford questions [Re: sehansen]
GrandMarq9807 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 4420
Loc: Virginia
With a 351W 400 Hp would be fairly easy. Plus it'll fit without a lot of mods.

With AFR 195 heads, Engine Masters Produced 484 Hp out of a 410 stroker and that motor had a very tame cam.
_________________________
1998 Grand Marquis LS. 96K mi. .. Stock
2007 Grand Marquis GS. 90K mi. .. Stock
1996 F-150 XLT 196K mi Beater, Stock

----------My Toys---------(links are up)
1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 4-Speed
1972 Comet GT Restomod 306, C4
1988 Turbo Coupe 331 AOD & 3.73 .. Pressurized ½ Motor is History

*****************NEW TOY!!!*********************
1969 Base Fairlane 302, C4, 45K mi(really!)

Now with P/S & PDB
Gonna wake it up with a Blue Print headed 347




Top
#4032278 - 09/27/19 02:42 PM Re: '90 small block ford questions [Re: sehansen]
minux Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/19
Posts: 127
Loc: Baltimore, MD
What about staying stock and doing a tune? Has anyone done this? Any gains?

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#4032284 - 09/27/19 03:37 PM Re: '90 small block ford questions [Re: sehansen]
Old_Guy_Stu Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1511
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Stock, you're severely limited by the size of the throttle body. Yes, it's got a great big hose going in, but inside is a throttle plate smaller than on a Harley.

It's cammed accordingly. Gobs of torque, peaking at 2,000 rpm. But it can't move enough air to go above 4,000.

You might get a HP bump by changing the intake and adding dual exhaust, but it wouldn't be a real big one because of the cam.
_________________________

1988 CVLX Formal Roof (Love Boat) POTM July 2019 & Aug 2020, 54K
E-code lights w/ relays, LEDs w/ switchbacks, 15x8 Ansen slots w/ 255/60 BFG's, Kenwood stereo, various hacks.
1988 CVLX (Destroyer) 1998-2001 driven to death 202K
1988 Squire (Chris Craft) 1996-1998 junkyard rescue driven to death 199K

Top
#4032344 - 09/28/19 07:55 AM Re: '90 small block ford questions [Re: sehansen]
JeffBoudah Offline

Grand Poobah

Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 10341
Loc: Holland,MI
that and sock valve springs will float at like 4500rpm even if you ran a better cam.
_________________________
1979 LTD 2-Door, 64k miles - Restomod W.I.P.
1979 LTD Wagon, 120k miles - Ratrod W.I.P.
1984 Colony Park, 155k miles - Work Truck
2005 Honda CR-V, 112k miles AWD 5-speed - Daily Driver

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#4032380 - 09/28/19 03:24 PM Re: '90 small block ford questions [Re: sehansen]
sehansen Offline
n00b

Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 30
Loc: Southern Minnesota, USA
So from the way it sounds, the options are between a 351 stroker or a mild 460 build
_________________________
1990 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX
1999 Ford Crown Victoria LX - Sold
2008 Mazda 6 Sport Value
1996 Honda Accord LX wagon

Top
#4032416 - 09/28/19 09:28 PM Re: '90 small block ford questions [Re: sehansen]
Old_Guy_Stu Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1511
Loc: Cleveland, OH
The 351 will go in a hell of a lot easier, and it's a lot lighter.
_________________________

1988 CVLX Formal Roof (Love Boat) POTM July 2019 & Aug 2020, 54K
E-code lights w/ relays, LEDs w/ switchbacks, 15x8 Ansen slots w/ 255/60 BFG's, Kenwood stereo, various hacks.
1988 CVLX (Destroyer) 1998-2001 driven to death 202K
1988 Squire (Chris Craft) 1996-1998 junkyard rescue driven to death 199K

Top
#4032478 - 09/29/19 09:41 AM Re: '90 small block ford questions [Re: Old_Guy_Stu]
BigMerc96 Offline
I know nothing
Posting Addict

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 19861
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
Originally Posted By Old_Guy_Stu
The 351 will go in a hell of a lot easier, and it's a lot lighter.
Yep. They put a 351w in the boxes at the factory so it would be a drop in. There have been at least a couple 460 swapped boxes, but for your goals a think a 351 would be a better starting point.

That said, you can make impressive power out of a 302, and your '90 block is set up for a roller cam so its a good foundation for a good build. With some good heads, cam, intake, exhaust, all matched properly, you could make a pretty streetable combination that motivates the car really well. It is not uncharted territory, there have been thousands of well built 302s put together thanks to it being such a common engine in its day.
_________________________
-Steve

2006 Audi A6 ~132k miles, stock.
1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~100k miles, slowly acquiring modifications.
1997 Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, cats deleted, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Projector retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit, holistic weight reduction as the parts fall off..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown

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#4032542 - 09/29/19 04:14 PM Re: '90 small block ford questions [Re: sehansen]
sehansen Offline
n00b

Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 30
Loc: Southern Minnesota, USA
With the 351 being a police/tow package motor, what are parts like trying to find them, specifically the stock motor mounts? I know the 351w is a extremely common motor found in trucks, but that's not really helpful when I'm trying to build one with high output.
_________________________
1990 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX
1999 Ford Crown Victoria LX - Sold
2008 Mazda 6 Sport Value
1996 Honda Accord LX wagon

Top
#4032562 - 09/29/19 06:25 PM Re: '90 small block ford questions [Re: sehansen]
GrandMarq9807 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 4420
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By sehansen
With the 351 being a police/tow package motor, what are parts like trying to find them, specifically the stock motor mounts? I know the 351w is a extremely common motor found in trucks, but that's not really helpful when I'm trying to build one with high output.
Blocks, cranks, rods are basically all same.

IF you're going to build one for HIGH output, stock parts ain't the way to do it. Scrap the asthmatic heads, intake etc and go with aftermarket pieces. The 351 HO CVPI was pathetic, rated at something like 185Hp.
_________________________
1998 Grand Marquis LS. 96K mi. .. Stock
2007 Grand Marquis GS. 90K mi. .. Stock
1996 F-150 XLT 196K mi Beater, Stock

----------My Toys---------(links are up)
1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 4-Speed
1972 Comet GT Restomod 306, C4
1988 Turbo Coupe 331 AOD & 3.73 .. Pressurized ½ Motor is History

*****************NEW TOY!!!*********************
1969 Base Fairlane 302, C4, 45K mi(really!)

Now with P/S & PDB
Gonna wake it up with a Blue Print headed 347




Top
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