Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! registry | CVN on Facebook | tech | news | email login Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure!


Welcome to CVN - Your Panther platform headquarters!


Custom Search


Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#4032504 - 09/29/19 11:59 AM Re: Alignment & Steering questions/problems [SOLVED] [Re: BigMerc96]
Oderus Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/13/19
Posts: 9
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By CrystalPistol
So, you didn't understand my post huh?

No, I got it.


Originally Posted By BigMerc96
I know what you meant, and I am pretty sure the OP did too. However, the stock arms are pathetic, yes they are made to flex, but they are just way too soft. Running aftermarket arms from the several suppliers that make them, it has been proven to improve the handling of these cars, and there have been plenty of people who have run them for years on cars that are their daily drivers and not experienced this issue. Yes, the aftermarket arms are much stiffer and won't flex, but that is what the bushings are for. With the proper bushing material they should allow for enough flex to allow proper suspension articulation. That is why I'm going to say that either CHE used the wrong/defective bushing material, or they got a bad batch, or something was out of whack with this set of arms and they were under stress when they shouldn't have been.

I do have a question for the OP. Were the CHE arms the same length as the stock ones? I know some companies make arms that are differing lengths for when a car has been lifted for big ass wheels. I could see if you had a set of those on a stock height car, the geometry could be off and put the bushings under a constant load. With the car at normal ride height on level ground, there should not be much if any load on the bushings.


They lined up sleeve to sleeve. Replaced one at a time with the rear end supported.
Stock P71 with stock wheels and stock size tires. Car drove way better for a day. No over sized wheels here. haha. I am just now coming around on 18" wheels looking ok.

Top
Links
#4032538 - 09/29/19 03:53 PM Re: Alignment & Steering questions/problems [SOLVED] [Re: Oderus]
Accumulator Offline
Climber

Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 756
CrystalPistol- While I've never had problems with Metco arms, and sure do appreciate the handling improvement over stock, I do get what you're saying, and my version of perfect RCAs would be beefy enough to not deflect so much under hard load *AND/BUT* would have harder *rubber* bushings instead of Poly.

Always some kind of trade-off when you start moving stresses around..on a Pre-'03 I'd sure check the forward RCA mounting points (actually, I'd reinforce them), though I'm not aware of issues like that in the later Whales.

Note that by the time I get a Panther handling the way I want for what I do with 'em, it's so stiff that it gets more squirrely at the kind of speeds I don't do. I'd be curious to hear what people over in Europe, who do spend time at very high speeds (~>135mph) prefer.

Top
#4032568 - 09/29/19 07:24 PM Re: Alignment & Steering questions/problems [SOLVED] [Re: Oderus]
CrystalPistol Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 3030
Loc: Shenandoah Valley
If you look closely at the good aftermarket arms, the bushings are made narrow enough to allow the stiff arms to rotate within the mount, so that when the rear wheel climbs a curb, when the rear axle has maybe 5-10 degrees angle as compared to the chassis, the bushings will allow it. The bushing in the picture allows the arm to pivot around the bolt but not crossways.

Heim joints work.

My last two CVPIs issued had reinforcements in all 4 CA mount points at chassis. My '98 got them added by Ford. I have slung the cars around in the roads, bootleg turns dropping the right side off the roadway, kicking it and turning hard left, and done it hard enough to bend rims, but never an issue with a LCA on the rear of a '98 OR newer CVPI.

I was not & am not arguing .... just pointing out that those rectangle tubular LCAs do not twist, but suspension must unless always driven at low speeds on perfectly flat surfaces. The one in the picture had a thin hard looking bushing, and while allowing the bolt to rotate ,the bolt and sleeve inside that bushing followed the axle on one end, but the chassis on the other as they twist in relation to each other. And it does so with every roadway imperfection, every parking lot entry, gas station transition into the roadway, curve taken, etc.
_________________________
Problems? Read The Book. Signed: A natural borne "neanderthal", w/s.
____________________________________ __________________
Toreador Red 2001 Mercury Grand Marquis ..... with some minor mods.

Top
#4032692 - 09/30/19 02:03 PM Re: Alignment & Steering questions/problems [SOLVED] [Re: Oderus]
Accumulator Offline
Climber

Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 756
CrystalPistol- I sure agree that for an in-service LE vehicle the no-deflection RCAs would robably be trouble (as would a lot of popular aftermarket "upgrades"). My cars are awfully pampered by comparison and see such limited use that even cumulative wear/tear isn't likely to be a problem (wan't on the last one).

I'm really curious about the reinforcements on your (last two) issue P71s. Were the pre-'03 models or later? My '08 shows no sign of needing them, although some other spots did get reinforced (both to handle my rear Addco and to correct some places where the factory could've done better).

Oh, and I notice that you apparently *like* the Goodyear RS-As! Mine are simply *AWFUL* in the wet so I find that interesting laugh

Top
#4032714 - 09/30/19 04:42 PM Re: Alignment & Steering questions/problems [SOLVED] [Re: Accumulator]
CrystalPistol Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 3030
Loc: Shenandoah Valley
Originally Posted By Accumulator
CrystalPistol- I sure agree that for an in-service LE vehicle the no-deflection RCAs would robably be trouble (as would a lot of popular aftermarket "upgrades"). My cars are awfully pampered by comparison and see such limited use that even cumulative wear/tear isn't likely to be a problem (wan't on the last one).

I'm really curious about the reinforcements on your (last two) issue P71s. Were the pre-'03 models or later? My '08 shows no sign of needing them, although some other spots did get reinforced (both to handle my rear Addco and to correct some places where the factory could've done better).

Oh, and I notice that you apparently *like* the Goodyear RS-As! Mine are simply *AWFUL* in the wet so I find that interesting laugh
Last three issued cars before my retirement in 2010 was the '98 that I ran up to about 120,xxx and was called in to be replaced over radio issues (we got some major upgrades in those years and they didn't update high miles cars),
then a "reissue" '00 that had 25,xxx miles on it when I got it which I ran up to about 130,xxx miles,
and then my last car issued in 2006, a then new'06 CVPI which was near 100,000 miles when I retired and the fellow who transferred into my slot wrecked his so they give him my car, then money got tight and they extended the miles, I think he ran it up to over 180,xxx miles.

My Mercury doesn't have any extra braces either. There wasn't a lot to the braces, just a steel strap like that extended forwards from under bolt head outboard of the CA to frame bolt to the side of frame. My '98 did not have them when new nor did it seem to need them, but I was told to take it to a Ford dealer and have them installed, so I did. As I recall, the pieces were welded at the frame side.

I don't know what to tell you about the RS-As and your dislike of them in rain. My department used them exclusively since back in the late 1980s. As far as I know, they are still using Goodyear RS-As. I drove them in all kinds of weather & conditions & speeds and I just liked them then, and still do, but I don't beat on them like I used to. I know that they wear faster than some others available, but I find them to be smooth riding, predictable, and I like the feel.

Originally Posted By BigMerc96
… etc … the stock arms are pathetic, yes they are made to flex, but they are just way too soft. Running aftermarket arms from the several suppliers that make them, it has been proven to improve the handling of these cars, and there have been plenty of people who have run them for years on cars that are their daily drivers and not experienced this issue. Yes, the aftermarket arms are much stiffer and won't flex, but that is what the bushings are for. With the proper bushing material they should allow for enough flex to allow proper suspension articulation. That is why I'm going to say that either CHE used the wrong/defective bushing material, or they got a bad batch, or something was out of whack with this set of arms and they were under stress when they shouldn't have been.
… etc …
Don't know if you meant soft or just easily flexed, but I do agree that the bushing in the picture of the rectangular tubing LCA was either ill engineered or of subpar material, (I think both conditions apply). That bushing was not designed to allow rotation of the LCA within the mounts which it must do if it's not gonna twist itself.

I've never seen a Panther OEM CA fold up or pull apart, except in a bad crash where the rear axle caught a culvert or other immovable object while the wreck was still happening. I will say the OEM LCAs are poor jacking points as I've seen some use them for. As far as making the car handle better, I don't see how, but if you say so. A good wash & detail always seems to help too.

I can recall similar issues with some GM cars like Chevelles, GTOs, etc. when owners boxed the rear LCAs in attempt to eliminate wheel hop and then added stiffer bushings too, creaking noises, rapid wear, even cracks in places. The OEM inverted U cross section allowed those bars to twist too, boxing them made them rigid.


Edited by CrystalPistol (09/30/19 05:31 PM)
_________________________
Problems? Read The Book. Signed: A natural borne "neanderthal", w/s.
____________________________________ __________________
Toreador Red 2001 Mercury Grand Marquis ..... with some minor mods.

Top
#4032802 - 10/01/19 09:32 AM Re: Alignment & Steering questions/problems [SOLVED] [Re: Oderus]
Oderus Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/13/19
Posts: 9
Loc: TX
CHE is investigating and will refund. Forgot to update yall yesterday if you're interested.

Top
#4032816 - 10/01/19 11:18 AM Re: Alignment & Steering questions/problems [SOLVED] [Re: Oderus]
RF_Overlord Offline

Poobah

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 7470
Loc: MA
Good to know they're standing behind their product and not just blaming as "improper installation" or similar.
_________________________
'03 Mercury Marauder (The Blackbird)
Trilogy Motorsports supercharged #61
Too many mods to list / Driveway Queen

'04 Grand Marquis LS Limited Edition (Spruce Green)
Daily Driver (Thanks, Adam!)

'00 Grand Marquis GS (Silver)
Rotted frame and broken transmission crossmember
Being resurrected...slowly.

Top
#4040896 - 12/26/19 12:16 PM Re: Alignment & Steering questions/problems [SOLVED] [Re: Oderus]
PB92 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 2150
Loc: Communist CT
Very interested in knowing what CHE has figured out, as of right now I would not buy the CHE arms.
_________________________
US MARINES Kilo 3/3
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world, MARINES don't have that problem" President Ronald Reagan

99 P71 Ex-Greenwich CT Det. car. New Ford crate engine. Deep Wedgewood Blue/SMD LED trunk/interior/door lights
Modified factory CAI. Big 4 upgrade, 0 gauge highstrand. High Power Cobra 29LX highly tricked out. 200 amp alt w/overdrive pulley. New body mounts. Moroso air/oil separator. Rebuilt 8.8 axle. ARA3 PCM. High power CB'er for 35 years. GMRS Operator Midland MXT400

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Who's Online
3 registered (hot__box, Old_Guy_Stu, 1 invisible), 58 Guests and 259 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
bluejay_32 161
a_d_a_m 106
Old_Guy_Stu 102
DudeAbides 54
Moby_Vic 51
CrystalPistol 48
TheCableGuy 43
RF_Overlord 43
Ponyguy 41
Rainbowpizza 36
Member Spotlight
Member Since: 11/11/01
Posts: 1288





Copyright 2000-2015 by Crownvic.net and Steve Spaulding. All Rights Reserved.
The photographs, graphics and data contained in this Web site are the properties of the contributors, or Crownvic.net and may not be used without expressed written consent.
Crownvic.net is not affiliated with the Ford motor company.

Happily consuming the fuel saved by Prius owners!