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#4041180 - 12/29/19 01:36 AM Removing comb from DBW TB gasket
CommanderCody Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/18
Posts: 196
Loc: USA
Searching around it seems a simply mod is to cut the comb vanes out of the DBW throttle body gasket/spacer. Has anyone had any issues with performing this mod? From what I have read that the main purposes for the gasket vanes is to quiet the intake noise and introduce a more gentile off-idle transition, IE make off idle sluggish to make driving easier for noobs.
_________________________
2008 P71 EX-National Park Service, throttle comb delete, Jmod, passenger airbag switch, splash guards, police trunk pack, Gamber Johnson floor plate, Havis console, and Tuffy cup holders.
1987 Buick Regal Limited with SBC V8 swap, TES headers, electronic Qjet, ZZ4 chip, THM200-4R 4 speed trans, 3.73 ratio posi rear end, and KYB shocks.
2002 Ford Ranger 4x4 4L
1946 Farmall Model A tractor with 12v alternator upgrade and electronic ignition.

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#4041192 - 12/29/19 08:41 AM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
2004_p71 Offline

no replacement for displacement
Posting Addict

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 15763
Loc: Quebec Canada
m

To each their own I guess but I dont see any benefit on doing it .
_________________________


new best time 13.079 @ 105 1.8 60'

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#4041308 - 12/30/19 12:10 AM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: 2004_p71]
CommanderCody Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/18
Posts: 196
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By 2004_p71
m

To each their own I guess but I dont see any benefit on doing it .


According to some older posts on this forum, as well as some I found on Mustang and Explorer forums, removing the vanes from the gasket is supposed to improve throttle response for DBW cars. Mainly around off idle and the first 1/3 range of throttle opening. Only issue I have seen reported is that it causes a temporary higher idle until the computer relearns the throttle. Just wondering if there was anymore info about performing this mod?
_________________________
2008 P71 EX-National Park Service, throttle comb delete, Jmod, passenger airbag switch, splash guards, police trunk pack, Gamber Johnson floor plate, Havis console, and Tuffy cup holders.
1987 Buick Regal Limited with SBC V8 swap, TES headers, electronic Qjet, ZZ4 chip, THM200-4R 4 speed trans, 3.73 ratio posi rear end, and KYB shocks.
2002 Ford Ranger 4x4 4L
1946 Farmall Model A tractor with 12v alternator upgrade and electronic ignition.

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#4041318 - 12/30/19 06:47 AM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
theperfectdrugsk Offline

Climber

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 907
Loc: Raleigh, NC
Can't say I've ever heard of it... These vanes are in the stock throttle body? Been forever since I had the zip tube off in mine, so I can't picture it.
_________________________
not old...just cranky

2007 P71 180k, fighting entropy
2015 Prius, wife's car, and i like more than i should is hot garbage but gets good mileage

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#4041330 - 12/30/19 11:02 AM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
CommanderCody Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/18
Posts: 196
Loc: USA
Its the gasket that goes between the throttle body and plenum that has the vanes.



Here is one old post about removing the vanes.

https://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3327609#Post3327609


Edited by CommanderCody (12/30/19 11:09 AM)
_________________________
2008 P71 EX-National Park Service, throttle comb delete, Jmod, passenger airbag switch, splash guards, police trunk pack, Gamber Johnson floor plate, Havis console, and Tuffy cup holders.
1987 Buick Regal Limited with SBC V8 swap, TES headers, electronic Qjet, ZZ4 chip, THM200-4R 4 speed trans, 3.73 ratio posi rear end, and KYB shocks.
2002 Ford Ranger 4x4 4L
1946 Farmall Model A tractor with 12v alternator upgrade and electronic ignition.

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#4042036 - 01/03/20 01:01 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
CommanderCody Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/18
Posts: 196
Loc: USA
Nobody knows more about this? Guess the old posters who brought this up must be MIA. Some of the old threads mention just cutting the bottom comb with the bar off. Other posts mentions removing both lower and upper combs. Anyone know which is best?
_________________________
2008 P71 EX-National Park Service, throttle comb delete, Jmod, passenger airbag switch, splash guards, police trunk pack, Gamber Johnson floor plate, Havis console, and Tuffy cup holders.
1987 Buick Regal Limited with SBC V8 swap, TES headers, electronic Qjet, ZZ4 chip, THM200-4R 4 speed trans, 3.73 ratio posi rear end, and KYB shocks.
2002 Ford Ranger 4x4 4L
1946 Farmall Model A tractor with 12v alternator upgrade and electronic ignition.

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#4042060 - 01/03/20 05:25 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
IPreferDIY Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 05/12/15
Posts: 1082
Loc: Canada
I have no idea what the combs are intended for, but the gasket itself is relatively cheap (especially if you can get a clearance one from RockAuto) and easy to replace, so being a guinea pig wouldn't cost you much. The gasket seems to be reusable, so you could presumably put the original back in if there's an issue.

In terms of air flow, there must be some restriction with all the surface area being encountered. Dunno if removing the combs would be comparable to increasing the TB size, but the latter was definitely worth it for my 2000 MGM.
_________________________
2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 180,000 km as of May 2015
mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

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#4042156 - 01/04/20 02:12 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
2004_p71 Offline

no replacement for displacement
Posting Addict

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 15763
Loc: Quebec Canada
Originally Posted By CommanderCody
Nobody knows more about this? Guess the old posters who brought this up must be MIA. Some of the old threads mention just cutting the bottom comb with the bar off. Other posts mentions removing both lower and upper combs. Anyone know which is best?


please do not take this personal but it,s only a freaking gasket on a 250 hp motor, do not expect that much of a difference on removing the comb. Every panther before 04 didnt have one and my only guess is that 05 + got them to help with the flow because the tb act like the IAC .

if you want results change the plenum for an accufab and get a 75mm tb if you can , you will see great results with that .
_________________________


new best time 13.079 @ 105 1.8 60'

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#4042194 - 01/04/20 09:37 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
dixiebandit69 Offline
5.4 Club
Member

Registered: 01/17/12
Posts: 318
Loc: Texas
From what I have read, those fins were put in place to reduce part-throttle noise that might offend the delicate sensibilities of John and Jane Q. Public.

For the record, I read about this from a Ford engineer who put those same fins on the throttle body gasket of the 5.0/ Coyote engines. That was in Hotrod Magazine, back when that magazine used to be good.
_________________________
2007 Grand Marquis LS: 5.4 swap, 9.9:1 compression ratio, Comp XE268s, NPI pistons, PI heads ported by me, Accufab upper plenum, 75mm DBW throttle body, Factory PI intake with Chinese spacers, CVPI dual exhaust, CVPI torque converter, CVPI air-box and zip tube, J-Mod, 3.55 gears, FMS Trac-Loc differential
17" Dorman CVPI steelies, BFG Comp T/A 255/45 R17s

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#4042342 - 01/06/20 12:05 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
CommanderCody Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/18
Posts: 196
Loc: USA
As I said, this mod does not provide more HP. It just helps to reduce some of the DBW lag. Lets face it, DBW generally has response lag similar to early turbo charged cars. Partly by design to make driving easier and safer for poor drivers. Car engineers view typical drivers as complete idiots and design cars with nanny features. Besides making the intake more quite, the vanes are designed to create a off idle lag to create a gentile throttle tip in.

Since the gaskets are $7 from Rockauto, I will try removing all the vanes and see what happens. Looking at some of the older posts, you should really do a computer reset after modifying the gasket to make the car idle normally sooner.

I would like to do a TB and plenum upgrade, but my hotrodding budget is allocated to my Regal this spring which needs new front suspension bushings as well as spring and brake upgrades while its apart. The gasket for my CVPI is just a stop gap until more funds are available. Plus I don't have a drill press for the modifying a Ford 75mm DBW TB. Even then, they are only good for 5 more HP according to MO tunes.


Edited by CommanderCody (01/06/20 12:07 PM)
_________________________
2008 P71 EX-National Park Service, throttle comb delete, Jmod, passenger airbag switch, splash guards, police trunk pack, Gamber Johnson floor plate, Havis console, and Tuffy cup holders.
1987 Buick Regal Limited with SBC V8 swap, TES headers, electronic Qjet, ZZ4 chip, THM200-4R 4 speed trans, 3.73 ratio posi rear end, and KYB shocks.
2002 Ford Ranger 4x4 4L
1946 Farmall Model A tractor with 12v alternator upgrade and electronic ignition.

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#4045004 - 01/27/20 03:03 AM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
2010mgm2010 Offline
Rookie

Registered: 08/30/17
Posts: 56
Loc: ss
every time when i clean the throttle body
i wonder if its a restriction or work as throttle body spacer form factory to increase and smooth airflow.

from what i read from the post i will give it a shot
and remove it
i want all the intake airflow and noise laugh
_________________________
2010 Grand Marquis Bolt ons
Obx headers with 2.5" Exhaust
75MM TB form 5.4 3v
custom intake 6" kn with 80mm maf housing to cpvi zip tube
Trickflow plenum
3.55 LCD gears

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#4045014 - 01/27/20 09:28 AM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
Raven238 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 1401
Loc: Beantown, MA
If it’s anything like hvac, they reduce turbulence and noise. I see those on newer units I install.
_________________________


97 P71 187K milesSOLD

03 TC Executive 142K.
70mm Tuberculosis, Projectors refit, LED refit, some other kind of refit, something something something....something.

03 P71 225XXX miles
Marauder Cluster Swap,Sniper Tuned, Side Blinker Mod, Headlamp Upgrade pictorial
Town Car Projector Refit

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#4045186 - 01/28/20 01:04 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
2010mgm2010 Offline
Rookie

Registered: 08/30/17
Posts: 56
Loc: ss
updated
i did it guys yesterday
it seems truly increase throttle response and sound
i feel its pull harder 1/4-3/4 throttle
but i find out why the ford engineers made it
to smooth tipin - tipout of throttle
now when i let off the throttle i feel rpm decreases faster
im OK with that
_________________________
2010 Grand Marquis Bolt ons
Obx headers with 2.5" Exhaust
75MM TB form 5.4 3v
custom intake 6" kn with 80mm maf housing to cpvi zip tube
Trickflow plenum
3.55 LCD gears

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#4045474 - 01/30/20 11:28 AM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
CommanderCody Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/18
Posts: 196
Loc: USA
Thanks for posting your results. Did you experience any idle RPM increase? Did you perform the Ford PCM throttle relearn procedure?
_________________________
2008 P71 EX-National Park Service, throttle comb delete, Jmod, passenger airbag switch, splash guards, police trunk pack, Gamber Johnson floor plate, Havis console, and Tuffy cup holders.
1987 Buick Regal Limited with SBC V8 swap, TES headers, electronic Qjet, ZZ4 chip, THM200-4R 4 speed trans, 3.73 ratio posi rear end, and KYB shocks.
2002 Ford Ranger 4x4 4L
1946 Farmall Model A tractor with 12v alternator upgrade and electronic ignition.

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#4045656 - 01/31/20 06:19 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
2010mgm2010 Offline
Rookie

Registered: 08/30/17
Posts: 56
Loc: ss
Originally Posted By CommanderCody
Thanks for posting your results. Did you experience any idle RPM increase? Did you perform the Ford PCM throttle relearn procedure?

your are welcome
no rpm still the same
*Did you perform the Ford PCM throttle relearn procedure*
no
just remove the battery terminal and do what you want to do
with the throttle body and plug battery terminal back on

some cars need throttle relearn
but our cars panther platform
no its not
i have removed a lot of throttle body's of these cars
no single one needed throttle body relearn
_________________________
2010 Grand Marquis Bolt ons
Obx headers with 2.5" Exhaust
75MM TB form 5.4 3v
custom intake 6" kn with 80mm maf housing to cpvi zip tube
Trickflow plenum
3.55 LCD gears

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#4045846 - 02/01/20 11:39 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
CommanderCody Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/18
Posts: 196
Loc: USA
Today I removed the comb from the gasket and there is a improvement in throttle response. Now it almost feels like a drive by cable throttle rather than DBW, the typical DBW lag is gone.
_________________________
2008 P71 EX-National Park Service, throttle comb delete, Jmod, passenger airbag switch, splash guards, police trunk pack, Gamber Johnson floor plate, Havis console, and Tuffy cup holders.
1987 Buick Regal Limited with SBC V8 swap, TES headers, electronic Qjet, ZZ4 chip, THM200-4R 4 speed trans, 3.73 ratio posi rear end, and KYB shocks.
2002 Ford Ranger 4x4 4L
1946 Farmall Model A tractor with 12v alternator upgrade and electronic ignition.

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#4047272 - 02/13/20 11:46 AM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
CommanderCody Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/18
Posts: 196
Loc: USA
A little update, after performing surgery on the TB gasket, the engine did idle at a higher speed. Performed a PCM relearn and the car is idling at 600 RPM in park again. Most of the DBW lag is still gone after the PCM relearn. I suspect that with larger DBW throttle body upgrades, you probably need to do at least a PCM relearn since just a higher flowing gasket upgrade benefited from it.
_________________________
2008 P71 EX-National Park Service, throttle comb delete, Jmod, passenger airbag switch, splash guards, police trunk pack, Gamber Johnson floor plate, Havis console, and Tuffy cup holders.
1987 Buick Regal Limited with SBC V8 swap, TES headers, electronic Qjet, ZZ4 chip, THM200-4R 4 speed trans, 3.73 ratio posi rear end, and KYB shocks.
2002 Ford Ranger 4x4 4L
1946 Farmall Model A tractor with 12v alternator upgrade and electronic ignition.

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#4047276 - 02/13/20 12:15 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
2011LX Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 1399
Loc: SE WI
If somebody wants to datalog and show me a postive before-and-after of MAF readings at WOT, I'll maybe buy that technically makes a difference, even if insignificant.

Until then, I still say it does zilch.
_________________________
2011 Crown Victoria LX - purchased @ 37k miles
currently @ 100k miles
Dark Toreador Red Metallic exterior
Medium Light Stone interior

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#4047328 - 02/13/20 10:46 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
2004_p71 Offline

no replacement for displacement
Posting Addict

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 15763
Loc: Quebec Canada
it does zilch
_________________________


new best time 13.079 @ 105 1.8 60'

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#4047334 - 02/13/20 11:30 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
CommanderCody Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/18
Posts: 196
Loc: USA
There is improved throttle response, mainly down low. There is at least enough difference to affect the computer anyway. My guess is that it probably does do zilch at high throttle openings like WOT. However, at low throttle openings where there is a low airflow condition, even a small change can have a noticeable affect. Its why with carbs, the idle adjustment is the most sensitive and easily knocked off of adjustment.

At low angle throttle opening, those vanes are probably restrictive. As I said, there is less tip in lag at off idle with the combs deleted. When I first performed the comb delete, the engine wanted to idle at 1K to 800 rpm until I did the relearn which knocked the idle back down to 600 rpm. This indicates that there may be higher airflow at low throttle openings which required the PCM to relearn to idle the engine correctly again.
_________________________
2008 P71 EX-National Park Service, throttle comb delete, Jmod, passenger airbag switch, splash guards, police trunk pack, Gamber Johnson floor plate, Havis console, and Tuffy cup holders.
1987 Buick Regal Limited with SBC V8 swap, TES headers, electronic Qjet, ZZ4 chip, THM200-4R 4 speed trans, 3.73 ratio posi rear end, and KYB shocks.
2002 Ford Ranger 4x4 4L
1946 Farmall Model A tractor with 12v alternator upgrade and electronic ignition.

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#4047832 - 02/18/20 07:49 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
slowlane Offline
Rookie

Registered: 01/21/16
Posts: 70
Loc: Wisconsin
I also tried this simple mod just to see if it really does anything, and on my 2005 MGM it did liven up the low end throttle response. The car is absolutely NOT faster than before but feels quicker to respond in relation to pedal position, especially starting off from a stop. I had previously done the DBW throttle relearn procedure to some effect, but the car always seemed to need a small amount of time to think about throttle inputs before finally giving in. I modified a replacement spacer and kept my original just in case, because engineers usually don't just put stuff like that in for no reason. I did perform the DBW relearn procedure again after the mod and I am happy with the results. Gas mileage is still the same 21-22 mpg I've always got.


Edited by slowlane (02/18/20 08:01 PM)
_________________________
2005 Mercury Grand Marquis GS bought at 90k currently 150k
1966 Volkswagen Beetle
1965 Buick Riviera
1985 Chevrolet G20 Van
1969 Plymouth Roadrunner

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#4049754 - 03/01/20 12:22 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
GM_Guy Offline
Posting Addict

Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18608
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
Just curious, how much tip in lag do you guys experience? My cvpi has virtually none when compared to other efi cars I drive which have painfully obvious tip in lag--which may be why I don't notice it.
_________________________
Box stuff in the Box forum!

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#4050562 - 03/06/20 08:28 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
TheCableGuy Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 04/08/19
Posts: 1034
Loc: Far Northwest AZ
So I can actually put my opinion up since I got around to doing this today. I noticed a small difference on the response in the gas pedal but enough to just notice it. It was that or the fact that my throttle body was dirty as [censored]. So.. yeah. Kinda invalid.
_________________________
2010 P7B 150K. 11K hours. 3.27, RKE, Cruise, Ported stock plenum, JMod, ADTR sway bar, KYB rear shocks. DIY Headlight harness upgrade, with projector retrofit: Mini H1’s.

Previous rides:
2011 Sierra 1500 155K, too many mods to list. (RIP 01-05-2019)
2001 Durango R/T 5.9. 230K. SOLD 5-1-19

They laugh at me because I’m different. I laugh at them because they’re all the same- Heath Ledger


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#4054308 - 03/24/20 05:36 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: 2004_p71]
Drac Offline

Cpt. Smug
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 3345
Loc: Cali
Originally Posted By 2004_p71
it does zilch


Beat me to it, Pier.
_________________________

2004 Crown Victoria finished in Dark Pearl Blue Metallic (DX) | Ported M122 powered DOHC conversion with all supporting mods. Dyno queen.
2010 BMW M5 V10 finished in Monaco Blue Metallic with 2-tone interior | Eisemann race exhaust | Lowered On Dinan coilovers. Daily Driver

BlueVic's DOHC Supercharged Build.
Bluevic's 1,000 RWHP Returnless Fuel System.
2009+ Window/Lock/Mirror Control Switches Retrofit.
Mercury Cougar Trunk Switch Retrofit.








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#4108766 - 05/12/21 03:42 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
chazmo67 Offline

Member

Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 317
Loc: North Hampton, NH
I replaced the comb gasket with one from a 2002 crownvic. A little better throttle response. Noticeable improvement in MPG (1 - 1.5) while cruising on the highway.
_________________________
Chazmo67

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#4108772 - 05/12/21 04:29 PM Re: Removing comb from DBW TB gasket [Re: CommanderCody]
2008interceptor Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 3276
Loc: Pennsylvania
One thing on the comb delete and apparent improved response. If the car ends up with lag after it's adapting. Won't it just end up learning how to do so with the increased air?
_________________________
2008 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor P71 with street appearance package.

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