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#4047046 - 02/11/20 08:50 AM Rear axle and motor questions
Vellu Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/10/20
Posts: 2
Loc: Finland
I live in Europe and parts are way harder to come by. That's why I have to order almost everything from Usa. And because of that, everything costs me about twice as much for what you could buy it. So that's why I need to try buy my parts in bigger "groups".

So, that's why I'm here to ask some dummy questions. Just that I'm not buying a wrong car for my projects.

I'm looking for replace my rear axle in my -69 Mustang. I'm making about 700 whp. 9" surely would be most popular choice, but I'm thinking to do Crown Vic front end swap also to my truck. Because of that easiest thing to me is buying complete CW and ship it to Finland.

- All CW have 8.8 axle? I know that axle is way too wide but I assume that I can narrow it down just like any other 8.8 axles?

-Is there any c-clip eliminator kits for CW axle or is it better to use 9" ends?

- Is front end same design in all years (2005-2011)? (wrong forum section but maybe this goes with all other questions)

- Is there any differences in engines in years 2005-2011? I'm thinking to use engine as well when doing CW front end swap so maybe some aftermarket ecu is easiest way to go?

I have read that 2005+ cars have better rear axle (31 spline?) and earlier models had some problems with soft materials in axle? That's why I'm looking CW 2005-2011. Is there any year that I should look or are they all same?

Thanks!

Vellu

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#4047056 - 02/11/20 11:21 AM Re: Rear axle and motor questions [Re: Vellu]
AlleyG Offline
Climber

Registered: 04/28/14
Posts: 509
Loc: Raleigh, NC
Your 69 Mustang doesn't already have a 9" rear?

They used them in T-Birds of the day.

I would buy something pre-made to fit the Mustang - not buy a Crown Vic rear and cut it. A 9" is mandatory for 700 WHP anyway, IMO.

Al
_________________________
2004 CVPI - 85k miles
1997 T-Bird LX - 85k miles
1994 Supra Turbo - 107k miles
Previous Fords:
1988 T-Bird, 1995 T-Bird, 1996 Cougar

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#4047060 - 02/11/20 11:44 AM Re: Rear axle and motor questions [Re: Vellu]
2011LX Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 1298
Loc: Oak Creek, WI
I don't think 9" was common in Mustang.

Mustang was made to be a small/light car, and most didn't come with much HP under the hood. A 9" would be unnecessarily big and heavy.

A typical V8 car probably would have come with a 8". 6 cyl maybe 7.25.
_________________________
2011 Crown Victoria LX - purchased @ 37k miles
currently @ 92k miles
Dark Toreador Red Metallic exterior
Medium Light Stone interior

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#4047070 - 02/11/20 01:45 PM Re: Rear axle and motor questions [Re: Vellu]
Old_Guy_Stu Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1273
Loc: Cleveland, OH
If you're going to swap the engine and front suspension into your truck, you might think about using the whole CV chassis. Apparently it's pretty common.

The CV's 8.8 axle might take 700 HP, but a 9-inch would for sure. If you're going to do all the work needed to change it, start with the right axle.
_________________________

1988 CVLX Formal Roof (Love Boat) POTM July 2019 & Aug 2020, 53K
E-code lights w/ relays, LEDs w/ switchbacks, 15x8 Ansen slots w/ 255/60 BFG's, Kenwood stereo, various hacks.
1988 CVLX (Destroyer) 1998-2001 driven to death 202K
1988 Squire (Chris Craft) 1996-1998 junkyard rescue driven to death 199K

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#4047086 - 02/11/20 05:53 PM Re: Rear axle and motor questions [Re: Vellu]
BigMerc96 Offline

I know nothing
Posting Addict

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 19770
Loc: I can see Detroit from here!
The 8.8 is fairly stout, depending what the car weighs, it could probably take 700hp without breaking, but I'd be more confident with aftermarket axle shafts in it, probably need those anyway if you're narrowing it. I don't no if they make c-clip eliminators for the 8.8, but given how common they are I would almost be surprised if they don't. Afterall, using a Explorer rear axle in Jeeps is fairly common, gives them rear disk brakes and apparently they're nearly the same width.

As far as differences between '05-'11, there are a few but nothing too major after '06. '05s are a weird mix with many mid-year changes and one-year-only parts. The switch to 31-spline axles happened mid '05, I want to say the changeover was in December 2004. However, early '05s had aluminum front control arms vs. stamped steel on the later ones. The change in control arms shouldn't matter as far as using the front end for a swap because they still mount to the same points and the main aluminum crossmember didn't change.
_________________________
-Steve

2006 Audi A6 ~132k miles, stock.
1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~100k miles, slowly acquiring modifications.
1997 Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust with Magnaflows, cats deleted, MSD Ignition, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front bar, air ride reinstated, Projector retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit, holistic weight reduction as the parts fall off..
1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12 frown

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#4047094 - 02/11/20 06:54 PM Re: Rear axle and motor questions [Re: AlleyG]
ClayBelt Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/03/18
Posts: 1397
Loc: Leon County
Originally Posted By AlleyG
Your 69 Mustang doesn't already have a 9" rear?

They used them in T-Birds of the day.

I would buy something pre-made to fit the Mustang - not buy a Crown Vic rear and cut it. A 9" is mandatory for 700 WHP anyway, IMO.

Al


Tbirds did not, they used this weird ass like 10” rear diff that’s tbird unique and impossible to find aftermarket rear gears for
_________________________
There’s a right way, a wrong way, and a janky way to fix something; I don’t usually have the brains or the money to pick the right way.

2001 Chevrolet Tracker LT “Featherbrick” - 6/2016-10/2016 - SOLD
2005 Toyota 4Runner SR5 “Panzer” - 8/2016-4/2018 - SOLD
1966 Ford Thunderbird “Fordy McFordface” - 11/2016-2/2020 - SOLD
2005 Buick LaCrosse CXS “Jumba” - 2/2017-2/2018 - 2010 Camaro V6, Flowmaster Super 44’s - SOLD
2010 Mercury Grand Marquis LS “Touge Sofa” - 4/2018-? - lotta mods
1990 Mazda Miata “Little Boy” - 5/2019-10/2019 - pile of [censored] - SOLD
1986 Ford Mustang SVO “Touge Fox” - 2/2020-? - big brakes, FMIC, bigger radiator

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#4047096 - 02/11/20 07:51 PM Re: Rear axle and motor questions [Re: Vellu]
RF_Overlord Offline

Poobah

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 7121
Loc: MA
My 1994 Thunderbird SuperCoupe had IRS in the back.
_________________________
'03 Mercury Marauder (The Blackbird)
Trilogy Motorsports supercharged #61
Too many mods to list / Driveway Queen

'04 Grand Marquis LS Limited Edition (Spruce Green)
Daily Driver (Thanks, Adam!)

'00 Grand Marquis GS (Silver)
Rotted frame and broken transmission crossmember
Being resurrected...slowly.

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#4047098 - 02/11/20 07:57 PM Re: Rear axle and motor questions [Re: Vellu]
Davidzq Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 136
Loc: Seattle, WA
1. Yes, all crown vics, grand Marquis, and towncars had 8.8" rear ends. Available ratios were 2.73, 3.08, 3.27 and 3.55
02 and older are 3" narrower than 03 and newer, but you're limited to 28 spline (unless you get custom shafts made).

2. Don't know.

3. 03-11 are the same, rack and pinion steering. The variable assist power steering electrical changed in 08 though.

4. 05-11 engines are identical, except 09+ p71s have a different oil cooler adapter, which holds a smaller fl910 filter (vs the fl820)
03-04 are also identical, except for having a cable throttle body (05+ is electronic).
01-02 have different oil pan, exhaust manifolds, and valve covers.

5. Switched from 28 spline to 31 spline in the middle of the 05 model year (12/14/04).
There was a recall for a bad batch of axle shafts, in 03 I believe. But those should be long gone by now.
_________________________
David Hensley
Member of Northwest Panthers Car Club

2007 P71, Norsea Blue SAP
-Jmod
-Message Center cluster retrofit
-All interior lighting converted to blue
-Lincoln towncar seats, heated and power passenger
-Self installed Compustar remote start/security
-Full dynamat install
-Full interior swap from tan to charcoal
-Trailer hitch/light controller/AirLift assist bags
-Headlight relay mod

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#4047172 - 02/12/20 05:04 PM Re: Rear axle and motor questions [Re: Vellu]
Vellu Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/10/20
Posts: 2
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By Old_Guy_Stu
If you're going to swap the engine and front suspension into your truck, you might think about using the whole CV chassis. Apparently it's pretty common.

Sadly that's illegal here. We have yearly car inspections so that's not an opinion.



Originally Posted By BigMerc96
The 8.8 is fairly stout, depending what the car weighs, it could probably take 700hp without breaking, but I'd be more confident with aftermarket axle shafts in it, probably need those anyway if you're narrowing it. I don't no if they make c-clip eliminators for the 8.8, but given how common they are I would almost be surprised if they don't. Afterall, using a Explorer rear axle in Jeeps is fairly common, gives them rear disk brakes and apparently they're nearly the same width.

I have read that 8.8" can take some serious power. Another choice for me would buy that Explorer axle, because that have right width. But on the other hand we don't have that many spare Explorer rear ends here so I would have to buy the whole car and just take the rear.

Originally Posted By BigMerc96
As far as differences between '05-'11, there are a few but nothing too major after '06. '05s are a weird mix with many mid-year changes and one-year-only parts. The switch to 31-spline axles happened mid '05, I want to say the changeover was in December 2004. However, early '05s had aluminum front control arms vs. stamped steel on the later ones. The change in control arms shouldn't matter as far as using the front end for a swap because they still mount to the same points and the main aluminum crossmember didn't change.


Originally Posted By Davidzq
1. Yes, all crown vics, grand Marquis, and towncars had 8.8" rear ends. Available ratios were 2.73, 3.08, 3.27 and 3.55
02 and older are 3" narrower than 03 and newer, but you're limited to 28 spline (unless you get custom shafts made).

2. Don't know.

3. 03-11 are the same, rack and pinion steering. The variable assist power steering electrical changed in 08 though.

4. 05-11 engines are identical, except 09+ p71s have a different oil cooler adapter, which holds a smaller fl910 filter (vs the fl820)
03-04 are also identical, except for having a cable throttle body (05+ is electronic).
01-02 have different oil pan, exhaust manifolds, and valve covers.

5. Switched from 28 spline to 31 spline in the middle of the 05 model year (12/14/04).
There was a recall for a bad batch of axle shafts, in 03 I believe. But those should be long gone by now.

Thanks for these infos. I'm pretty sure that I'll buy a car from Copart. I think that I can get car little cheaper from there.

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#4047194 - 02/12/20 09:31 PM Re: Rear axle and motor questions [Re: Vellu]
RF_Overlord Offline

Poobah

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 7121
Loc: MA
Originally Posted By Vellu
Sadly that's illegal here. We have yearly car inspections so that's not an opinion.
Shame. I thought the Finns were more progressive than we here in the US.
_________________________
'03 Mercury Marauder (The Blackbird)
Trilogy Motorsports supercharged #61
Too many mods to list / Driveway Queen

'04 Grand Marquis LS Limited Edition (Spruce Green)
Daily Driver (Thanks, Adam!)

'00 Grand Marquis GS (Silver)
Rotted frame and broken transmission crossmember
Being resurrected...slowly.

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#4047220 - 02/13/20 12:07 AM Re: Rear axle and motor questions [Re: RF_Overlord]
Rjay Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 14
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia, United State...
Oh, for sure not. They are way more controlling when it comes to vehicles over there than in the U.S., depending on where you are from.
_________________________
2011 Ford Crown Victoria P7B 4.6 -- 226,106 mi
2001 Ford Expedition XLT 5.4 -- 292,041 mi
2000 Ford F-350 EXT 7.3 (sold) -- was aprox. 109,900 mi
1993 Ford Taurus (inoperable) -- 187,041 mi

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#4047278 - 02/13/20 12:35 PM Re: Rear axle and motor questions [Re: Vellu]
CrystalPistol Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2164
Loc: The Shenandoah Valley of Va.
a base '69 Mustang had a 8" rear, if it was a 351Cleveland 4 spd car … it had a 9".

8.8s weren't in the mix in 1969.
_________________________

2001 MercGM since 2001, 93K miles, Addco F&R, Bilstein HDs, J-mod, factory duals, Reese Hidden Hitch, AirLifts, Weathertech, XM, easy on gas, 17x7s with Goodyear RS-As make a smooth ride. All as of January 2020




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#4054870 - 03/27/20 11:33 AM Re: Rear axle and motor questions [Re: Davidzq]
rsierra Offline
n00b

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 31
Loc: Iowa
Davidzq - thanks for this info. I have been wondering if I could swap the rear from a 2002 LSE into a newer car. Valuable info to find out its narrower. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
_________________________
Sig removed for excessive length.
Read the rules.

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#4055090 - 03/28/20 04:02 PM Re: Rear axle and motor questions [Re: rsierra]
Davidzq Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By rsierra
Davidzq - thanks for this info. I have been wondering if I could swap the rear from a 2002 LSE into a newer car. Valuable info to find out its narrower. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Yes, you can put a 98-02 rear end into an 03-11 car. The older shock mounts are still present on the newer bodies.
No idea why you would though 😛
_________________________
David Hensley
Member of Northwest Panthers Car Club

2007 P71, Norsea Blue SAP
-Jmod
-Message Center cluster retrofit
-All interior lighting converted to blue
-Lincoln towncar seats, heated and power passenger
-Self installed Compustar remote start/security
-Full dynamat install
-Full interior swap from tan to charcoal
-Trailer hitch/light controller/AirLift assist bags
-Headlight relay mod

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#4055152 - 03/29/20 12:28 AM Re: Rear axle and motor questions [Re: RF_Overlord]
JordanA Offline
Member

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 117
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By RF_Overlord
Originally Posted By Vellu
Sadly that's illegal here. We have yearly car inspections so that's not an opinion.
Shame. I thought the Finns were more progressive than we here in the US.


They are. That's what being progressive means. Lots of regulations; government involved in everything. Have you seen gas prices in Western Europe? And being progressive means being anti-car.

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