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#4074876 - 08/20/20 11:16 AM Antifreeze
ford05 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 5837
Loc: New Jersey
2005 crown vic sport

So I been flushing out the coolant system for a few weeks now. I drain via radiator drain plug and refill with distilled water. I did this like 10 times. That flush was pure clear water. Car was actually running so well temp wise with just water. I had 2 gallons of prestone green concentrate antifreeze/coolant laying around in garage so I figure I use that. So I went ahead and drained the radiator via plug and then filled up with the prestone green concentrate antifreeze/coolant. Took roughly in between 1.5-2 gallons to fill which gets me close to a 50/50 mix. So after letting car run with reservoir cap off and heat on high for a good 10-15, replaced cap and let car cool down for a few hours. Then went back to top off with antifreeze. Drove the car for a few days and I started noticing that my temp was going over 200F. At one point it actually hit 216F. I did not like this at all. So I kept driving this way for a few more days thinking that maybe it just need to mix. No changes at all. Temp was climbing above 200F. Checked the reservoir and it was in range.

Being that I then realized that the best coolant for my 05 is g-05 I went ahead and gave my system another flush. Once again I drained the system like 8 times via radiator drain plug and then filled with distilled water. So, I am now running close to distilled water. 2 more drains will give me that clean clear water. Car is running way better now temp wise. It has not exceeded 198F.

So can someone here explain whats happening? Once I do the last 2 fill with distilled water, then I will be adding the g-05 pure antifreeze and try to get my 50/50 mix or atleast close.
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#4074878 - 08/20/20 11:38 AM Re: Antifreeze [Re: ford05]
Davidzq Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 286
Loc: Seattle, WA
How old was that green coolant? It has a shelf life, which is why you need to do coolant flushes every once in awhile (and to remove any contaminants).
You can use any color you want, actually. They all work. Ford changed colors many times over the years of production. Just note that some last longer than others, and mixing colors is bad.

I would recommend replacing the tstat, stock is 195°. Colder will get you a little more HP, but at the cost of some MPG.

When was it overheating? If it was mostly at idle, I would suspect the cooling fan (or it's module) is failing, which is a common issue. But a worn water pump, failing temp sensor (tells PCM to turn fan on), debris on radiator, or clogged/collapsed hoses could also cause this.

Also there's no need to run the heater during the flush, these cars do not have a valve on the heater core, coolant flows through at all times.
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2007 P71, Norsea Blue SAP
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-Message Center cluster retrofit
-All interior lighting converted to blue
-Lincoln towncar seats, heated and power passenger
-Self installed Compustar remote start/security
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-Full interior swap from tan to charcoal
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#4074884 - 08/20/20 12:04 PM Re: Antifreeze [Re: ford05]
ford05 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 5837
Loc: New Jersey
I should had been more specific. I have 180 stat in there already with new OEM water pump and edelbrock victor JR manifold, long tube headers colder plugs, 24lb injectors, ADTR intake tube with marauder maf sensor, MHS heads with stage 2 cams and a few other goodies. I understand that some of these goodies make more heat like the actually intake it self but with everything else pretty much brand new, I shouldn't be having this problem. Now, lets remember that when running just on distilled water, car was running great temp wise. This started happening after the 2 gallons of antifreeze was put in. The gallons were actually purchased less then a year ago. So I believe date wasn't the issue.
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#4075000 - 08/21/20 09:53 AM Re: Antifreeze [Re: ford05]
ford05 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 5837
Loc: New Jersey
Ok so im starting to notice something here. So when driving down road, temp stays at its reading or it goes down. When at a stop light or idleing, temp would start to go up slowly but it goes up. Once i start moving, it starts dropping.

So is this a fan issue? Fan is working . I see fan turn on at 192 degrees. Also it turns on when AC is on. Im just not able to tell if it turns on on full speed or what. Hard to tell and listen when car exhaust is so loud. How to test fan?


Edited by ford05 (08/21/20 10:38 AM)
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#4075008 - 08/21/20 11:25 AM Re: Antifreeze [Re: ford05]
Davidzq Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 286
Loc: Seattle, WA
idle only does make it sound like a fan issue, but your description makes it sound like fan is functioning properly.
The fan is speed controlled by the PCM.
You can test the fan by jumping power and ground directly to it (the fan itself, not the fan module). Also check the blades for damage.
_________________________
David Hensley
Member of Northwest Panthers Car Club

2007 P71, Norsea Blue SAP
-Jmod
-Message Center cluster retrofit
-All interior lighting converted to blue
-Lincoln towncar seats, heated and power passenger
-Self installed Compustar remote start/security
-Full dynamat install
-Full interior swap from tan to charcoal
-Trailer hitch/light controller/AirLift assist bags
-Headlight relay mod

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#4075020 - 08/21/20 11:52 AM Re: Antifreeze [Re: Davidzq]
ford05 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 5837
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By Davidzq
idle only does make it sound like a fan issue, but your description makes it sound like fan is functioning properly.
The fan is speed controlled by the PCM.
You can test the fan by jumping power and ground directly to it (the fan itself, not the fan module). Also check the blades for damage.


So jumping power and ground from fan would tell me what exactly?

because I do know for a fact that fan is coming on. Question is is it coming on with the right speed?
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#4075026 - 08/21/20 12:26 PM Re: Antifreeze [Re: ford05]
gDMJoe Offline


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Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 7705
Loc: Timbuk3, MI
*HEADS-UP* Running with just water and no antifreeze is not a good thing.

Reasons: Antifreeze ...
  • raises the boiling point.
  • contains corrosion inhibitors.
  • lubricates the water pump.
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#4075030 - 08/21/20 01:20 PM Re: Antifreeze [Re: gDMJoe]
ford05 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 5837
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By gDMJoe
*HEADS-UP* Running with just water and no antifreeze is not a good thing.

Reasons: Antifreeze ...
  • raises the boiling point.
  • contains corrosion inhibitors.
  • lubricates the water pump.





Im just trying to flush out old coolant to add new.

So with car idleing, at 192 degree the fan is blowing. I turn on the ac and i can actually feel and hear a difference in speed so this is telling me that the fan is working fine. I guess that at 192F the fan turns on at its lowest setting which is normal?



Edited by ford05 (08/21/20 01:23 PM)
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#4075034 - 08/21/20 02:15 PM Re: Antifreeze [Re: ford05]
hot__box Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 09/22/15
Posts: 1703
Loc: Bayou State
Originally Posted By ford05
Ok so im starting to notice something here. So when driving down road, temp stays at its reading or it goes down. When at a stop light or idleing, temp would start to go up slowly but it goes up. Once i start moving, it starts dropping.

So is this a fan issue? Fan is working . I see fan turn on at 192 degrees. Also it turns on when AC is on. Im just not able to tell if it turns on on full speed or what. Hard to tell and listen when car exhaust is so loud. How to test fan?


Totally different vehicle but on my 13 Silverado I had a similar issue. Basically, when driving around there were no temp issues. But if I stopped at a red light or let the truck idle for an extended period of time, the temperature would begin to creep up to about 3/4 on the temp gauge until the (secondary) fan kicked on and brought the temp back to normal. If I started moving it would immediately go back down to normal.

GM trucks use an electric fan system I think it's two fans, a main and and auxiliary. As it turns out, the computer readings have to reach a specific temperature, [[[don't remember what it was, but someone on the Silverado forums did tell me the number, I feel like it was well over 200F but don't quote that]]] which is pretty hot before the aux fan kicks on, meaning the temp gauge can rise up quite high before the computer deems it hot enough to turn the extra fan on. This had a lot to do with the ambient temperature outside -- I only had these problems in the spring, when it was hot enough to warrant both fans, but just not quite hot enough to need both of them when the vehicle first started idling. In the summer I never have that issue, because it's always so hot both fans are constantly working.

I know it's a whole different vehicle manufacturer, and a completely different cooling system design .. but the symptomatic problem is exactly the same from what I've experienced.. so maybe this bit of information can help you perhaps.



Also, like gdm said, you may just be trying to flush the system but the water boils faster than antifreeze. Perhaps once you refill with antifreeze the issue will resolve itself?
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#4075046 - 08/21/20 03:44 PM Re: Antifreeze [Re: ford05]
Old_Guy_Stu Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1633
Loc: Cleveland, OH
I think you've got a couple different issues.

Creeping temp at idle is pretty normal. The cooling system is sized so that it works optimally with the car in motion. Possibly with your mods you could benefit from a police radiator (I'm assuming they're bigger than the civi model because police cars idle all day).

Straight water conducts heat better than antifreeze mix, so the temp will be higher with antifreeze. You can add Water Wetter to the mix, which reduces its surface tension to improve heat transfer.
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#4075056 - 08/21/20 05:52 PM Re: Antifreeze [Re: ford05]
RF_Overlord Offline

Poobah

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 7258
Loc: MA
^^^what Old Guy Stu said^^^

However:

I would assume the radiator, water pump flow rate. thermostat selection, etc. should be sized assuming a 50/50 mix and shouldn't be right on the edge of overheating, unless you're in Death Valley this summer (hottest place on Earth - 128°).

ford05, what are you using to measure the temp?
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#4075068 - 08/21/20 06:52 PM Re: Antifreeze [Re: ford05]
ford05 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 5837
Loc: New Jersey
I am using my sctx4
Right now i am running pure distilled water as i was flushing out the green coolant. I am ready to add the g05 antifreeze to try and acheive the 50/50 mix.

Ive read that running pure water helps reduce heat better but that doesnt seem to be working for me.
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#4075076 - 08/21/20 07:30 PM Re: Antifreeze [Re: ford05]
Davidzq Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 286
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By ford05
Originally Posted By Davidzq
idle only does make it sound like a fan issue, but your description makes it sound like fan is functioning properly.
The fan is speed controlled by the PCM.
You can test the fan by jumping power and ground directly to it (the fan itself, not the fan module). Also check the blades for damage.


So jumping power and ground from fan would tell me what exactly?

because I do know for a fact that fan is coming on. Question is is it coming on with the right speed?


That the fan itself functions properly. With straight 12v, the fan should be running at high speed. If it's running a little slow, it would mean you have a weak fan motor.
I don't think it's likely, but its another thing that can be ruled out.
_________________________
David Hensley
Member of Northwest Panthers Car Club

2007 P71, Norsea Blue SAP
-Jmod
-Message Center cluster retrofit
-All interior lighting converted to blue
-Lincoln towncar seats, heated and power passenger
-Self installed Compustar remote start/security
-Full dynamat install
-Full interior swap from tan to charcoal
-Trailer hitch/light controller/AirLift assist bags
-Headlight relay mod

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#4075082 - 08/21/20 07:46 PM Re: Antifreeze [Re: ford05]
2007CrownVic Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 3040
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By ford05
I am using my sctx4
Right now i am running pure distilled water as i was flushing out the green coolant. I am ready to add the g05 antifreeze to try and acheive the 50/50 mix.

Ive read that running pure water helps reduce heat better but that doesnt seem to be working for me.


Using antifreeze cools better then straight water. Not having the right mix is probably what's causing your noticeable temperature rise at idle.

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#4075154 - 08/22/20 10:52 AM Re: Antifreeze [Re: 2007CrownVic]
124neta Offline
don't get riled, sugar!
Poobah

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 6099
Loc: Il
Originally Posted By 2007CrownVic

Using antifreeze cools better then straight water. Not having the right mix is probably what's causing your noticeable temperature rise at idle.


Antifreeze reduces boiling point, it doesn't "improve" cooling aspects of the fluid in the system on any other level. As pointed out by someone else already in the thread, water alone transfers heat better.

That said, I think most people are getting blinded by this coincidence of cooling flush.

I think the car has been doing this for some time, you just noticed now because you are monitoring temps.

I also think that the easiest and most probable point of failure here is the thermostat.
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