Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! registry | CVN on Facebook | tech | news | email login Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure!


Welcome to CVN - Your Panther platform headquarters!


Custom Search


Topic Options
#4084610 - 11/16/20 05:38 PM 2004 GM, crank no start.
PatrickBateman Offline
n00b

Registered: 03/31/18
Posts: 49
Loc: NH
Hello, my 2004 GM was sitting for a while, over 6 months because I was busy with other things. I needed a new alternator because I had issues charging. I got around to putting the battery and alternator in a few days ago and could crank but it wouldn't start. I tried jumping it as well and that did not seem to work. I did a second burst of starter fluid in the air box prior to trying to day and it seemed like it wanted to go, but it wasn't enough. Perhaps a fuel issue rather than electrical? I checked all the fuses and none were blown, the relay for the fuel pump was good as I swapped it with others that were working.
I can't find the spot on the fuel rail with the fitting to test for fuel pressure though.
I did find the f57b-14a604-a diode blown though. I tested it for continuity and did not give me the buzz it should on the meter at either connection point. Could that diode be part of the issue? Thanks.
_________________________
Do you like Huey Lewis and the News?

Anything can be a prybar if you are brave enough.

Top
Links
#4084616 - 11/16/20 07:38 PM Re: 2004 GM, crank no start. [Re: PatrickBateman]
TheShadow Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 1646
Loc: SoCal High Desert
Originally Posted By PatrickBateman
Hello, my 2004 GM was sitting for a while, over 6 months because I was busy with other things. I needed a new alternator because I had issues charging. I got around to putting the battery and alternator in a few days ago and could crank but it wouldn't start. I tried jumping it as well and that did not seem to work. I did a second burst of starter fluid in the air box prior to trying to day and it seemed like it wanted to go, but it wasn't enough. Perhaps a fuel issue rather than electrical? I checked all the fuses and none were blown, the relay for the fuel pump was good as I swapped it with others that were working.
I can't find the spot on the fuel rail with the fitting to test for fuel pressure though.
There is no Schrader valve on the later models. Pressure can easily be read with a scan tool, if you have one.

I did find the f57b-14a604-a diode blown though. I tested it for continuity and did not give me the buzz it should on the meter at either connection point. Could that diode be part of the issue? Thanks.
What were you testing for with the meter? Don't forget that diodes will read a lower resistance (but not zero, unlike a fuse) when forward-biased. Easier would be to check both sides for Battery voltage with key ON.

You should also check all the fuses in the Battery Junction Box behind the battery.

Edit: ...and to answer your question re. the diode, if that were blown or not installed, both the PCM and Fuel Pump relays would not turn on.


Edited by TheShadow (11/16/20 07:47 PM)
_________________________
'95 P71, 5xx,xxx miles, Rebuilt tranny, 2.73. Lives as a cab, and will die as a cab. (Died-FrontEnder)
'96 P71, 640,xxx on original drivetrain. (Now parts car - T-bone & roll)(You should see the roof - A,B & C-pillars chopped on driver side)
New to list: '96 MGM (Nice! @ 35x,xxx), '97 CV P71, '98 CV P71, '00 CV P71, 01 P71 (2 of 'em) '03 CV P71 (Nice so far) (All Ford Zinc Yellow w/Black decals & trim) And the list is growing...........
Taxicab mechanic: I HATE DRIVERS!

Top
#4084628 - 11/16/20 08:18 PM Re: 2004 GM, crank no start. [Re: PatrickBateman]
PatrickBateman Offline
n00b

Registered: 03/31/18
Posts: 49
Loc: NH
I checked both the under dash and battery boxes for continuity with the setting on my multimeter. It just makes a tone if the circuit is unbroken, I didn't know it was a diode when I checked it, it looked like a fuse so I did the same test and had no tone.
I couldn't any indication of fuel pressure on my scanner when the car isn't running (its a cheap one). If the PCM wasn't on would it still allow the scanner to try and scan for codes,or would the scanner get an error? Because I read about some crank no start conditions being not able to communicate with the PCM but since I could scan I thought it couldn't be that.


Edited by PatrickBateman (11/16/20 08:18 PM)
_________________________
Do you like Huey Lewis and the News?

Anything can be a prybar if you are brave enough.

Top
#4084636 - 11/16/20 09:22 PM Re: 2004 GM, crank no start. [Re: PatrickBateman]
TheShadow Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 1646
Loc: SoCal High Desert
PCM needs to have power to communicate with a scanner, so the scanner would get a failure to communicate...

If you check the diode in a resistance mode, not the continuity mode, you should see a low(er) value with the probes connected in one direction, and a very high value when the probes' polarity is reversed. You might have to change the resistance scale to get a good lower reading...

Edit: If F20 in the battery box has B+ with Key On, then the diode is working properly and the PCM has power applied to it.

Can you hear the fuel pump work for a second or two when you turn the Key On? If not, jumper the fuel pump relay and see if the pump comes on then.

Uh, a couple stupid questions: Did you check the cutoff switch to make sure it hadn't popped? There is some newer gas in the tank, right?


Edited by TheShadow (11/16/20 09:32 PM)
_________________________
'95 P71, 5xx,xxx miles, Rebuilt tranny, 2.73. Lives as a cab, and will die as a cab. (Died-FrontEnder)
'96 P71, 640,xxx on original drivetrain. (Now parts car - T-bone & roll)(You should see the roof - A,B & C-pillars chopped on driver side)
New to list: '96 MGM (Nice! @ 35x,xxx), '97 CV P71, '98 CV P71, '00 CV P71, 01 P71 (2 of 'em) '03 CV P71 (Nice so far) (All Ford Zinc Yellow w/Black decals & trim) And the list is growing...........
Taxicab mechanic: I HATE DRIVERS!

Top
#4084642 - 11/16/20 10:00 PM Re: 2004 GM, crank no start. [Re: TheShadow]
f00barbob Offline
n00b

Registered: 09/11/12
Posts: 27
Loc: near Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By TheShadow
Did you check the cutoff switch to make sure it hadn't popped?
Got myself with this by throwing the spare tire back in the trunk. Car would start and idle (how, I don't know), but sputter and die the second I applied throttle.

Originally Posted By PatrickBateman

I can't find the spot on the fuel rail with the fitting to test for fuel pressure though.

I went out and checked my '04, and found it likewise lacks a pressure check fitting - after consulting the service manual, it appears that the procedure requires a special coupling (which has the valve) to be installed inline with the fuel line.

"Adapter Spring Lock Coupling 310-100"

Surely one can be found for a lower price, but it looks like this:

https://www.toolsource.com/injector-tools-c-1321_182_191/spring-lock-coupling-adapter-p-108910.html
_________________________
'04 P74; purchased in Summer '12 with 12K miles. Dual exhaust and stabilizer bars from a Marauder. Paint scheme is white-primer-rust. ~111,000K miles. I intend to keep this car for a very long time smile

Top
#4084998 - 11/19/20 04:32 PM Re: 2004 GM, crank no start. [Re: PatrickBateman]
PatrickBateman Offline
n00b

Registered: 03/31/18
Posts: 49
Loc: NH
The cut off is fine, the new gas bit is the hard part to test given there's probably 3/4 of a tank in it right now bawl .


Edited by PatrickBateman (11/19/20 04:33 PM)
_________________________
Do you like Huey Lewis and the News?

Anything can be a prybar if you are brave enough.

Top
#4085004 - 11/19/20 05:03 PM Re: 2004 GM, crank no start. [Re: PatrickBateman]
TheShadow Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 1646
Loc: SoCal High Desert
There is always the possibility of bad gas causing all this...maybe some condensation inside the tank watering it down, maybe just 'normal' deterioration... But, with 3/4 tank, it's most likely still OK.

So can you hear the fuel pump cycling on when you turn the key to On?
_________________________
'95 P71, 5xx,xxx miles, Rebuilt tranny, 2.73. Lives as a cab, and will die as a cab. (Died-FrontEnder)
'96 P71, 640,xxx on original drivetrain. (Now parts car - T-bone & roll)(You should see the roof - A,B & C-pillars chopped on driver side)
New to list: '96 MGM (Nice! @ 35x,xxx), '97 CV P71, '98 CV P71, '00 CV P71, 01 P71 (2 of 'em) '03 CV P71 (Nice so far) (All Ford Zinc Yellow w/Black decals & trim) And the list is growing...........
Taxicab mechanic: I HATE DRIVERS!

Top
#4085006 - 11/19/20 05:05 PM Re: 2004 GM, crank no start. [Re: PatrickBateman]
RF_Overlord Offline

Poobah

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 7259
Loc: MA
There is no fuel pressure Schrader valve on '03+ cars. It was eliminated when they went returnless. You need a scan tool. (I'm pretty sure FORScan will read it, and for Android fanbois so should Torque)
_________________________
'03 Mercury Marauder (The Blackbird)
Trilogy Motorsports supercharged #61
Too many mods to list / Driveway Queen

'04 Grand Marquis LS Limited Edition (Spruce Green)
Daily Driver (Thanks, Adam!)

'00 Grand Marquis GS (Silver)
Rotted frame and broken transmission crossmember
Being resurrected...slowly.

Top
#4086022 - 11/28/20 08:54 PM Re: 2004 GM, crank no start. [Re: PatrickBateman]
Site66 Offline
n00b

Registered: 11/03/17
Posts: 46
Loc: Florida
Time to divide and conquer!

I suspect a bad fuel pump only becasue I have had to replace 2 on my CV's cars so far lol.

Here's what I would do go buy a new fuel filter take your fuel filter off its by the pass side rear tire on the frame you will need the removal tool and point the input hose into a bucket.
have someone watch while you crank the car over fuel should fly out of that hose into the bucket so secure the hose.
Fuel coming out thats good check out the fuel condition is it dirty bad etc.

If you have good fuel flow install the new fuel filter the proper direction and try to start again. Still no start you now know its not fuel its spark.
_________________________
2004 Mercury Grand Marquis Ultimate Pearl White
Bought in 2017 w 55,000 miles on it. New Ford racing intake mani and it runs really strong. Duals coming and new gears in the back. Looking for J Mod.

Top
#4086074 - 11/29/20 06:34 AM Re: 2004 GM, crank no start. [Re: PatrickBateman]
Old_Guy_Stu Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1644
Loc: Cleveland, OH
If it won't fire when you spray ether in the TB, I'd be looking at spark rather than fuel.
_________________________

1988 CVLX Formal Roof (Love Boat) POTM July 2019 & Aug 2020, 54K
E-code lights w/ relays, LEDs w/ switchbacks, 15x8 Ansen slots w/ 255/60 BFG's, Kenwood stereo, various hacks.
1988 CVLX (Destroyer) 1998-2001 driven to death 202K
1988 Squire (Chris Craft) 1996-1998 junkyard rescue driven to death 199K

Top
#4086120 - 11/29/20 05:28 PM Re: 2004 GM, crank no start. [Re: PatrickBateman]
PatrickBateman Offline
n00b

Registered: 03/31/18
Posts: 49
Loc: NH
My apologies for the delay. I tested and made sure there was no communication error, so the diode was not an issue, pulled the fuel pump relay and see if it would pull a code to make sure that was working.
I went through the settings of the meter and found the fuel pressure, I didn't see it at first because it was an abbreviation for fuel rail pressure or something alike and was in pascals. I was reading 2 PSI, I tested another unrelated vehicle and in the same key position it was 43, so it does seem to be something fuel related.
When I previously attempted to start with starter fluid, I only did maybe 1 or 2 seconds into the airbox past the filter and shut it and tried to crank, because I heard it could cause a problem if I did more.

I will get a new fuel filter since they are cheap and watch the fuel directly from the line going into the filter to make sure. What would cause a fuel pump to go bad from sitting immersed in gasoline? The fuel could deteriorate I suppose as it does, but it hasn't been that long and it is mostly full.
_________________________
Do you like Huey Lewis and the News?

Anything can be a prybar if you are brave enough.

Top

Who's Online
2 registered (Clark, 1 invisible), 47 Guests and 239 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Email Login
EMail Login Name
Password
 New users, sign up!
Top Posters (30 Days)
bluejay_32 185
a_d_a_m 147
Old_Guy_Stu 129
DudeAbides 87
Ponyguy 66
CrystalPistol 48
Moby_Vic 42
LTC_Dave 42
Bangster 38
Davidzq 38
Member Spotlight
Member Since: 07/16/13
Posts: 2836





Copyright 2000-2015 by Crownvic.net and Steve Spaulding. All Rights Reserved.
The photographs, graphics and data contained in this Web site are the properties of the contributors, or Crownvic.net and may not be used without expressed written consent.
Crownvic.net is not affiliated with the Ford motor company.

Happily consuming the fuel saved by Prius owners!