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#4091378 - 01/12/21 12:08 PM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: Danger2manifold]
ford05 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 5911
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By Danger2manifold
Honestly, I'd try swapping in the replacement that you have lying around regardless of your bench test results. It may hold vacuum and open and close properly at room temp but not after driving and heating up a bit


Those are my plans as soon as I get home this afternoon. They both tested the same. Man I hope this solves my issue. I mean, its obvious that the valve has something to do with this as when I unplugged the electrical connecter everything settled.
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#4091386 - 01/12/21 02:13 PM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: ford05]
MIHAYLA Offline
Rookie

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 53
Loc: UA


Opening the canister purge valve allows more air flow than necessary. There is probably a leak in front of the valve.
Now you need to look for the answer under the green cap.

http://ibb.co.com/image/af5ou
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MGM92
LTC05

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#4091432 - 01/12/21 07:49 PM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: MIHAYLA]
ford05 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 5911
Loc: New Jersey
Update with a big headach......

So got home today and installed the used replacement Vapor Canister Purge Valve. Took car out for an hour drive. Car ran great like always. I get home and park car. Let the car idle for about 10 mins and car starts to act up. Rpms start reving up from its normal 900-950. Gets to 1300s and just stays there acting all funky. I go back to underhood and disconnect the electrical connector from valve and car settles and idles normal.

Boy this is giving me the biggest headcach.

I went to amazon. Picked up a new valve and installed it. Drove car for a few mins and drove fine. Got home, parked and idled for about 5 mins and there we have it. I hear the car reving itself and rpm rising. Makes its way up to 1300-1350 and its just sitting there. I unplug the connector from the NEW valve and rpm settles. WTF!!!!.........

Slap the old one back and return new unit to autozone for my full refund.

Originally Posted By MIHAYLA


Opening the canister purge valve allows more air flow than necessary. There is probably a leak in front of the valve.
Now you need to look for the answer under the green cap.

http://ibb.co.com/image/af5ou


So your saving that i might have a leak somewhere in my evap system?
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#4091440 - 01/12/21 09:08 PM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: ford05]
85GT Offline
Member

Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 359
Loc: NYC
Well... you need to go and find someone that understands the strategy of your PCM. Then find out what conditions enable that valve. That will clue you into what's making the condition valid, eg. Things like #4, for example, tells me that it should never open at closed throttle. That BAFX OBD reader could tell you if when it happens, the PCM thinks you're at part throttle and not idle.

Here is the first page extract for the GUFB strategy used in fox mustangs. There are a few more that explain the terms and the the flow diagram to enable the valve:

Canister Purge refers to the solenoid and valve combination that is located in the line between the intake manifold and the carbon canister. When the solenoid is energized the valve opens, allowing the flow of vapors from the canister to the intake manifold.

The strategy enables canister purge during various engine operating modes.
These modes are calibration items. Typical calibrations will enable purge
when these conditions are met:

1) Fuel control is in the desired mode. The calibrator can choose
between purging during closed loop only or during both open loop and
closed loop.
2) The engine has warmed up.
3) The engine has not overheated.
4) The 'Not at Closed Throttle' delay has been met.
The strategy includes a feature to prevent the rich surge that may occur
on purge turn on. When the purge is enabled the output is cycled on and
off at a 10Hz frequency with a variable duty cycle. The duty cycle ramps
up to slowly introduce the canister vapors. The duty cycle ramp is
determined from FN600 * FN602 * FN605A.


Edited by 85GT (01/12/21 09:15 PM)
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08 CVPI
85 Mustang GT w/4R70W
91 Caprice
95 Caprice

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#4091454 - 01/12/21 11:57 PM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: ford05]
85GT Offline
Member

Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 359
Loc: NYC
Other possibility is that it is normal to enable at idle for a CV, but there might be a missing upstream restriction that is letting in more air then designed. Was any of the vapor canister hoses and connections changed?
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08 CVPI
85 Mustang GT w/4R70W
91 Caprice
95 Caprice

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#4091462 - 01/13/21 12:46 AM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: ford05]
RF_Overlord Offline

Poobah

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 7351
Loc: MA
I find it unusual that, irrespective of the status of the Vapor Management Valve (AKA the purge valve), opening the hood will cause the issue to abate and closing the hood causes the issue to return.

There is nothing about the engine that should be aware of whether the hood is open or closed.
_________________________
'03 Mercury Marauder (The Blackbird)
Trilogy Motorsports supercharged #61
Too many mods to list / Driveway Queen

'04 Grand Marquis LS Limited Edition (Spruce Green)
Daily Driver (Thanks, Adam!)

'00 Grand Marquis GS (Silver)
Rotted frame and broken transmission crossmember
Being resurrected...slowly.

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#4091482 - 01/13/21 07:16 AM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: 85GT]
ford05 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 5911
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By RF_Overlord
I find it unusual that, irrespective of the status of the Vapor Management Valve (AKA the purge valve), opening the hood will cause the issue to abate and closing the hood causes the issue to return.

There is nothing about the engine that should be aware of whether the hood is open or closed.


Openning the hood makes the issue worst. The issue is already present. Something is going on where by opening the hood allows more direct air/wind into engine bay causing the car to act up more then what its already is.

The fact that unplugging the purge valve makes car idle back down to normal is my issue. Its not the actual valve as I replaced with a spare used one and a new one.

Originally Posted By 85GT
Other possibility is that it is normal to enable at idle for a CV, but there might be a missing upstream restriction that is letting in more air then designed. Was any of the vapor canister hoses and connections changed?


no vapor canister hoses nor connections changed.
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#4091484 - 01/13/21 07:27 AM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: RF_Overlord]
Old_Guy_Stu Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1838
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Originally Posted By RF_Overlord
I find it unusual that, irrespective of the status of the Vapor Management Valve (AKA the purge valve), opening the hood will cause the issue to abate and closing the hood causes the issue to return.

There is nothing about the engine that should be aware of whether the hood is open or closed.


That's normal for any car. Just ask a professional mechanic. We used to refer to the shop fluorescents as the Healing Lights.
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1988 CVLX Formal Roof (Love Boat) POTM July 2019 & Aug 2020, 54K
E-code lights w/ relays, LEDs w/ switchbacks, 15x8 Ansen slots w/ 255/60 BFG's, Kenwood stereo, various hacks.
1988 CVLX (Destroyer) 1998-2001 driven to death 202K
1988 Squire (Chris Craft) 1996-1998 junkyard rescue driven to death 199K

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#4091494 - 01/13/21 08:16 AM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: ford05]
2011LX Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 1351
Loc: SE WI
You should be able to identify purge valve operation by plugging the vent and watching the fuel tank pressure sensor on your scanner.

If the purge valve is stuck or is incorrectly being commanded open, you'll see it pull a vacuum on the tank.

Frankly, I don't think the purge valve has anything to do with it.
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2011 Crown Victoria LX - purchased @ 37k miles
currently @ 100k miles
Dark Toreador Red Metallic exterior
Medium Light Stone interior

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#4091502 - 01/13/21 08:45 AM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: Old_Guy_Stu]
MIHAYLA Offline
Rookie

Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 53
Loc: UA
Your EVAP valve is located above the original position. If I'm not mistaken. In such a case the hood can cover the hole in the valve cap.
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MGM92
LTC05

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#4091538 - 01/13/21 01:45 PM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: Old_Guy_Stu]
RF_Overlord Offline

Poobah

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 7351
Loc: MA
Originally Posted By Old_Guy_Stu
That's normal for any car.
Seriously? I'm 64 and have been working on cars since high school and I've never seen that happen.
_________________________
'03 Mercury Marauder (The Blackbird)
Trilogy Motorsports supercharged #61
Too many mods to list / Driveway Queen

'04 Grand Marquis LS Limited Edition (Spruce Green)
Daily Driver (Thanks, Adam!)

'00 Grand Marquis GS (Silver)
Rotted frame and broken transmission crossmember
Being resurrected...slowly.

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#4091786 - 01/14/21 08:10 PM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: ford05]
ford05 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 5911
Loc: New Jersey
Update.........

So after looking and touching and sniffing under the hood i found 2 things. I smell fuel vapor by the back part of the intake manifold. I have the edlebrock intake with edelbrock fuelrails. I have a braided fuel hose connecting rails being intake and also by the front of intake(dual fuel lines).

I also found 5 lose intake manifold bolts. 2 on bank1 and 3 on bank 2. I beleive this could had been causing my issues. I have not taken care of these issues yet as the engine is hot and i dont want to torque down the bolts.

My question is, how and why did this happen and is the solution as simple as just re torqueing them all or should i pull the intake manifold, change the gaskets and check for demageings?

As per the fuel line behind the intake manifold, i beleive i dont need that line and the one up front should be enough. I guess i can just remove that and cap off the ends of the rails.
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#4091878 - 01/15/21 01:00 PM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: ford05]
Danger2manifold Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/19
Posts: 123
Loc: Connecticut
Try re-torquing before tearing things off the motor. Makes more sense to do that first, especially if it fixes your problem!
_________________________
Current Panther:
1999 Crown Victoria LX - 66k miles, Toreador red, factory 20 spoke Chrome wheel covers, AEM Dryflow panel filter, custom 2.25" dual exhaust with H-pipe, Magnaflow XL mufflers, Heartthrob Exhaust 18" chrome resonated tips, Kenwood KMM-BT225U head unit, PPI A600/4 4-channel amplifier, PPI i650.1 monoblock amplifier, Pioneer 6x8 2-way speakers, two 12" JBL subs in sealed enclosures, 2/2019 to present

Past Rides:
2003 Buick Regal GS Joseph Abboud edition - as close to a Grand National as I'll probably get, traded in 2/2019
1996 Lincoln Town Car Signature - 1st car ever bought, dubbed "The Emancipator" by friends, rear ended and totalled in 5/2016
2002 Buick Rendezvous CXL - passed to me by the folks, handed down to younger brother in 2/2015

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#4091898 - 01/15/21 03:25 PM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: ford05]
RF_Overlord Offline

Poobah

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 7351
Loc: MA
Agree with Danger2manifold.
_________________________
'03 Mercury Marauder (The Blackbird)
Trilogy Motorsports supercharged #61
Too many mods to list / Driveway Queen

'04 Grand Marquis LS Limited Edition (Spruce Green)
Daily Driver (Thanks, Adam!)

'00 Grand Marquis GS (Silver)
Rotted frame and broken transmission crossmember
Being resurrected...slowly.

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#4091910 - 01/15/21 06:00 PM Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! bank 2 lean [Re: ford05]
ford05 Offline
Poobah

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 5911
Loc: New Jersey
Update........

Funny how everytime i find something, then go to resolve it, i then find something esle. So i retorqued all bolts for the intake manifold.

I then removed the coils on bank 2 being thats that the bank causing me issues. Everything is dry. I then went ahead and removed spark plug #5 and to my surprise a smell of fuel hit me when i removed the spark plug. Plug has carbon deposit. Went ahead to remove 6-7-8 and they all smelled heavly like fuel and looked all the same. Checked the gaps. When installed about a 8 months ago they were gapped at .45. They are now at .50. I went ahead and regapped them back to .45 and installed them. Went to start car and the exhaust was heavy fuel smell and trimes read as followed.

Cold start:
Stft b1 1.07% ltft b1 0.91%
Stft b2 1.34% ltft b2 1.15%

So, seems like we getting closer and closer to atleast finding the issue.

Any suggestions?
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