Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! registry | CVN on Facebook | tech | news | email login Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure!


Welcome to CVN - Your Panther platform headquarters!


Custom Search


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#4091592 - 01/13/21 08:30 PM 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build
Fopeano Offline
n00b

Registered: 10/27/20
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate NY
I'm doing the most aggressive possible transmission rebuild on my new P71. My intention is to use it to tow my other cars to the track for HPDE events. Is this the right place to document such a project? Is technical coverage of internal transmission work something that would be of value here?

I'm in the parts ordering process and the transmission is still apart. I'm hoping to be ready to assemble in a few weeks.

-Fope





_________________________
-Fope
Fresh October 2020 Noob with Fords and my 2005 P71
YouTube channel of my cars, VR6 track days, blown up cars from work, and interesting work I've done

Top
Links
#4091698 - 01/14/21 09:15 AM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
2010mgmUltimate Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/06/21
Posts: 12
Loc: The Desert
What are you doing to the rear susp and axle? They're only rated for 1500 lbs because of the rear axle.

Top
#4091720 - 01/14/21 11:01 AM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
Bangster Offline

Poobah

Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 9397
Loc: Tucson Az
So other vehicles that use the 8.8 that are rated at 5k or more tow rating? I call bs on that. Even 8.8 IRS.

The uneven control arms, the very long rear overhang, those are to the detriment to towing, and putting a 2000lb cap on it is a good thing.

When a CUV with a 4 banger FWD is rated at more than twice, you know it isn't one mechanical thing.

My Escape with 180hp is so much more comfortable towing than a Panther.
_________________________
00 Grand Marquis LS Premium - 97 Cougar 4.6 Sport - 89 Cougar LS - 63 Falcon 302 - 82 F-150 - 97 Mark VIII LSC - 2017 Escape SE - 2012 Fusion Sport AWD

Top
#4091724 - 01/14/21 11:12 AM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
Bangster Offline

Poobah

Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 9397
Loc: Tucson Az
I would love to see disassembly, assembly, updates, etc thread. Bulletproofing a 4R seems interesting (I never blew one up with stock power and just doing dumb stuff, which amazes me).
_________________________
00 Grand Marquis LS Premium - 97 Cougar 4.6 Sport - 89 Cougar LS - 63 Falcon 302 - 82 F-150 - 97 Mark VIII LSC - 2017 Escape SE - 2012 Fusion Sport AWD

Top
#4091768 - 01/14/21 05:46 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: 2010mgmUltimate]
Fopeano Offline
n00b

Registered: 10/27/20
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By 2010mgmUltimate
What are you doing to the rear susp and axle


I don't know exactly. There are billet trailing arms, upgraded bushings, tow-assist air bags that fit inside the springs, aftermarket springs, aftermarket differentials and gearsets, and probably more available.

I've souped up a bunch of cars before, always with success, but never done a towing build or anything domestic or a truck.
_________________________
-Fope
Fresh October 2020 Noob with Fords and my 2005 P71
YouTube channel of my cars, VR6 track days, blown up cars from work, and interesting work I've done

Top
#4091848 - 01/15/21 10:30 AM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Bangster]
2010mgmUltimate Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/06/21
Posts: 12
Loc: The Desert
Originally Posted By Bangster
So other vehicles that use the 8.8 that are rated at 5k or more tow rating? I call bs on that. Even 8.8 IRS.

The uneven control arms, the very long rear overhang, those are to the detriment to towing, and putting a 2000lb cap on it is a good thing.

When a CUV with a 4 banger FWD is rated at more than twice, you know it isn't one mechanical thing.

My Escape with 180hp is so much more comfortable towing than a Panther.



I suppose that my post was pretty poorly worded, my bad. I just meant that, to my knowledge, the rear end of the car and suspension setup is the bigger limitation than the engine/trans. I'm looking forward to seeing how it comes out though.


Edited by 2010mgmUltimate (01/15/21 10:33 AM)

Top
#4091854 - 01/15/21 10:39 AM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
2011LX Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 1391
Loc: SE WI
Engine/trans has little to do with it.

A 150hp truck from the '70's-'80's can handle a tow load better than this car.

You don't need a ton of powertrain strength to pull.

The limitations are the weak chassis/suspension and the brakes. These cars just plain can't handle a heavy load safely.

That said, keep as much off of the car as you can. Get yourself a nice aluminum tandem axle with a good electric brake controller for the best chance of doing this.

If I was pulling with one of these, I'd first change the rear axle gearset so I at least stand a chance of merging onto the highway safely.
_________________________
2011 Crown Victoria LX - purchased @ 37k miles
currently @ 100k miles
Dark Toreador Red Metallic exterior
Medium Light Stone interior

Top
#4091912 - 01/15/21 06:05 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
Lance01 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/18
Posts: 410
Loc: Pa
Good luck on your build. Not sure if you're looking for advice but if you're just using this car for towing purposes there is no need to go aggressive on the rebuild at all. A stock rebuild will be just fine, but where you need to go aggressive is the transmission cooler.

Anyway, good luck!

Top
#4091920 - 01/15/21 07:11 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
Fopeano Offline
n00b

Registered: 10/27/20
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate NY
I'm always looking for advice and gladly factoring all of this in. One of the aftermarket parts I got for the transmissiom is a Superior/Translab replacement spool valve that flows fluid to the trans cooler full time.

Thank you all for the replies, and I'll post more information on this build soon.
_________________________
-Fope
Fresh October 2020 Noob with Fords and my 2005 P71
YouTube channel of my cars, VR6 track days, blown up cars from work, and interesting work I've done

Top
#4091926 - 01/15/21 07:32 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
2007CrownVic Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 3135
Loc: Canada
What other cars are you towing? Unless it's something like a go cart on a small trailer proving to law enforcement that a Crown vic can safely tow a weight a lot more then it was designed for is going to be more of a problem then building the car to do it. A crown vic towing a car trailer is going to be screaming for bad attention.

Top
#4092030 - 01/16/21 06:48 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
Fopeano Offline
n00b

Registered: 10/27/20
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate NY
Right now the track cars are VW Jettas, much smaller and lighter than the P71. I had not thought about the possibility of being pulled over for towing something that looks absurd. Honestly, I've thought more about how badass I'll feel pulling into the paddock at the track this year.

I appreciate all the commentary, and I want to clarify a couple of things:

I've found all the comments about the chassis/axle limitations very interesting, and I'm looking into this quite a bit starting from a broad theoretical level.

I have not committed to towing with the car, only fixing it because it will be my daily when my current one fails catastrophically. I will be studying, and I'll be able to justify the towing if I follow through with that role for the vehicle.

The transmission needs a rebuild, I'm very hard on cars, I can afford to overbuild it, and it's a new learning experience for me that I'm having fun with.

The initial fixing up of the car I'm also doing includes repairing every loose suspension/steering component, and new pads/rotors/calipers all around. Big brake upgrades and suspension/axle modifications are not out of the question. As usual, any advice/criticism on this issue is appreciated.

I may also be pulling the engine out to re-gasket the whole thing and deal with the broken exhaust manifold fasteners. I have not yet decided if I'm going to do it as part of this project or have it be the next one.


Edited by Fopeano (01/16/21 07:17 PM)
_________________________
-Fope
Fresh October 2020 Noob with Fords and my 2005 P71
YouTube channel of my cars, VR6 track days, blown up cars from work, and interesting work I've done

Top
#4092040 - 01/16/21 07:22 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Bangster]
Fopeano Offline
n00b

Registered: 10/27/20
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By Bangster
The uneven control arms, the very long rear overhang, those are to the detriment to towing...


I'd appreciate if you can link to any technical information about this.
_________________________
-Fope
Fresh October 2020 Noob with Fords and my 2005 P71
YouTube channel of my cars, VR6 track days, blown up cars from work, and interesting work I've done

Top
#4092052 - 01/16/21 08:28 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
RF_Overlord Offline

Poobah

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 7470
Loc: MA
I agree with 2007CrownVic...if you're towing anything heavier than a garden trailer filled with mulched leaves I would recommend a brake upgrade. With the Zack and Jerry DIY brakes or something like Wilwoods, (which I have on my Marauder...all I have to do is LOOK at the brake pedal and the car stops.
_________________________
'03 Mercury Marauder (The Blackbird)
Trilogy Motorsports supercharged #61
Too many mods to list / Driveway Queen

'04 Grand Marquis LS Limited Edition (Spruce Green)
Daily Driver (Thanks, Adam!)

'00 Grand Marquis GS (Silver)
Rotted frame and broken transmission crossmember
Being resurrected...slowly.

Top
#4092100 - 01/17/21 02:34 AM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: RF_Overlord]
CrystalPistol Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 3030
Loc: Shenandoah Valley
I think the 2005 CV with Watt's link rear, the bags in the coils, maybe 4.10 gearing would do OK. Many F-150s use 8.8s, might look close at the axles if high mileage. I and my wife road down through SW Virginia, parts of NC, Tenn too in 1982 with another couple , visited the Knoxville World's Fair, the friend whose car we were in, was pulling his heavy old style Layton Travel Trailer with his 1966 Buick station wagon, 300 cu in V8 with a 2 barrel carb, 2 speed Buick Dynaflow transmission, it worked hard on a level road. Drove it UP to Chimney Rock pulling that heavy trailer, plus we had a bunch of stuff packed. I had put a cooler on it before the trip and he only used the AC on level or down grades as I recall. Of course, he had electric brakes and an equalizer hitch. That Layton was so heavy, we used a bumper jack to pick the rear of the wagon up with the trailer hooked so we could tension the spring bars tighter, and he had Delco air shocks.

Slow & Steady.
Originally Posted By RF_Overlord
I agree with 2007CrownVic...if you're towing anything heavier than a garden trailer filled with mulched leaves I would recommend a brake upgrade. With the Zack and Jerry DIY brakes or something like Wilwoods, (which I have on my Marauder...all I have to do is LOOK at the brake pedal and the car stops.
Back in about 1968, maybe 69 or '70?, Road Test Magazine did a road test comparison of several cars, the GTXD with the 440, a Impalala SS with the 427 (could have been 454?), and a Ford Galaxie with a 429 (or 460?). I know the GTX had the 440. The cars were all automatics with HD brakes, etc. They compared top speed, 1/4 mile times, and stopping from 60 or 70 mph. The thing was, all testing was with and without the same tandem axle Air Stream trailer. They used those strap on the front fender extended mirrors too. All three broke the ton on top speed, I think it was the GTX was fastest overall. In the braking, they found the cars stopped in shorter distances with the trailer which had it's own brakes and the ratio pounds to brake surface was better with the trailer. The cars were all set up with load distributing hitches and brake controllers. Wild testing.

I don't know why I posted this, just reminded me I guess.


Edited by CrystalPistol (01/17/21 02:53 AM)
_________________________
Problems? Read The Book. Signed: A natural borne "neanderthal", w/s.
____________________________________ __________________
Toreador Red 2001 Mercury Grand Marquis ..... with some minor mods.

Top
#4092106 - 01/17/21 07:32 AM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
Old_Guy_Stu Online   drunk

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 2068
Loc: Cleveland, OH
I dunno, I never had any problems towing small cars with my Squire. This was 20+ years ago, with an old angle-iron single-axle trailer that weighed 1100 lbs empty, with no brakes. Never had to do an emergency stop, though. The brakes weren't really up to the task, but that's box brakes for ya. Positioning the load properly to manage tongue weight was the biggest factor.

Then again, I was young & dumb, God looks out for fools and drunks and I qualify on both counts.

Tow rating was 5,000 pounds in the 1988 sales literature.



Don't know what that Prowler camper weighs, but I bet it's heavier than a Jetta on a flatbed. And your brakes are a hell of a lot better.


Edited by Old_Guy_Stu (01/17/21 07:47 AM)
_________________________

1988 CVLX Formal Roof (Love Boat) POTM July 2019 & Aug 2020, 55K
E-code lights w/ relays, LEDs w/ switchbacks, 15x8 Ansen slots w/ 255/60 BFG's, Kenwood stereo, various hacks.
1988 CVLX (Destroyer) 1998-2001 driven to death 202K
1988 Squire (Chris Craft) 1996-1998 junkyard rescue driven to death 199K

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Who's Online
5 registered (stalag, ismann, professorP7B, hot__box, 1 invisible), 63 Guests and 247 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
bluejay_32 161
a_d_a_m 106
Old_Guy_Stu 102
DudeAbides 54
Moby_Vic 51
CrystalPistol 48
TheCableGuy 43
RF_Overlord 43
Ponyguy 41
Rainbowpizza 36
Member Spotlight
Member Since: 12/14/02
Posts: 1734





Copyright 2000-2015 by Crownvic.net and Steve Spaulding. All Rights Reserved.
The photographs, graphics and data contained in this Web site are the properties of the contributors, or Crownvic.net and may not be used without expressed written consent.
Crownvic.net is not affiliated with the Ford motor company.

Happily consuming the fuel saved by Prius owners!