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#4092120 - 01/17/21 09:25 AM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
HDmech Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/15/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Saskatchewan
I would sure be interested in seeing another 4r70w performance oriented build up on here Fope. I have my 03 trans apart and I’m hung up on a lot of things cause don’t know what I’m doin. Only parts I’ve got so far are the sonnax forward clutch drum and direct drum kit. Long way to go
_________________________
03 marauder 4.6 4v - restoration underway 188000km- lots of mods
04 marquis 4.6 2v - in storage 267000km
08 f-150 5.4 3v - hibernation till spring 68000km
13 GMC Sierra 5.3 daily driver 48000km
10 raptor 6.2 - 324000km - new project

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#4092382 - 01/19/21 07:15 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
Fopeano Offline
n00b

Registered: 10/27/20
Posts: 23
Loc: Upstate NY
This is some great information, I'm really appreciating it.

HDmech:

The videos I used to get acquainted with this unit are on the "Transmission Bench" YouTube channel. The video series is dry and adds up to about 8 hours, but are very thorough and friendly to beginners.



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9lVw8TP7bh4_mIyEjmCq5fKrG-tb2Eml

I'm also installing the Sonnax high capacity forward and direct clutch drums, so I'll make sure to cover anything I run into with them. I'm still waiting for Global Tranmssion Parts to find me Raybestos Red Stage 1 friction modules that have been on backorder. They say they can get me Blue Plate Specials, but I think they are more for a race car that gets rebuilt on a regular basis. If I can't get Reds soon, that's probably what I'm going with.


Edited by Fopeano (01/19/21 07:19 PM)
_________________________
-Fope
Fresh October 2020 Noob with Fords and my 2005 P71
YouTube channel of my cars, VR6 track days, blown up cars from work, and interesting work I've done

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#4092388 - 01/19/21 08:17 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
Fopeano Offline
n00b

Registered: 10/27/20
Posts: 23
Loc: Upstate NY
Something I ran into already is that the high capacity forward clutch drum requires the sun gear shell that doesn't have the rivets that mine had, so I ordered the later bonded shell to accommodate it.





_________________________
-Fope
Fresh October 2020 Noob with Fords and my 2005 P71
YouTube channel of my cars, VR6 track days, blown up cars from work, and interesting work I've done

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#4092400 - 01/19/21 11:06 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
TheShadow Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 1722
Loc: SoCal High Desert
Loads of good info here, but a few chapters were not completed...

https://www.explorerforum.com/forums/threads/4r70w-transmission-rebuild-diary.128800/
_________________________
'95 P71, 5xx,xxx miles, Rebuilt tranny, 2.73. Lives as a cab, and will die as a cab. (Died-FrontEnder)
'96 P71, 640,xxx on original drivetrain. (Now parts car - T-bone & roll)(You should see the roof - A,B & C-pillars chopped on driver side)
New to list: '96 MGM (Nice! @ 35x,xxx), '97 CV P71, '98 CV P71, '00 CV P71, 01 P71 (2 of 'em) '03 CV P71 (Nice so far) (All Ford Zinc Yellow w/Black decals & trim) And the list is growing...........
Taxicab mechanic: I HATE DRIVERS!

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#4092568 - 01/21/21 12:00 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
HDmech Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/15/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Saskatchewan
Hey Fope I’m wondering if you have the correct sonnax drum. I have the 76655-01k and my trans is an 03 and yours is an 05. 76654-01k is different and I think it works with 04 and up. I know I’m a serious noob here but something seems off
_________________________
03 marauder 4.6 4v - restoration underway 188000km- lots of mods
04 marquis 4.6 2v - in storage 267000km
08 f-150 5.4 3v - hibernation till spring 68000km
13 GMC Sierra 5.3 daily driver 48000km
10 raptor 6.2 - 324000km - new project

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#4092626 - 01/21/21 06:10 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
Fopeano Offline
n00b

Registered: 10/27/20
Posts: 23
Loc: Upstate NY
The 76655-01k is the high capacity forward clutch drum, which is what I'm using. It holds a extra friction and steel in the stack and requires that rivet-less sun shell shown above to fit because it's a little taller and interferes with the rivets.

The 76654-01k is the standard capacity smart-tech drum. They both fit both of our transmissions (as long they have the smooth sun gear shell).

https://globaltransmissionparts.com/4r70...lutch-drum-kit/


Edited by Fopeano (01/21/21 06:11 PM)
_________________________
-Fope
Fresh October 2020 Noob with Fords and my 2005 P71
YouTube channel of my cars, VR6 track days, blown up cars from work, and interesting work I've done

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#4092690 - 01/21/21 10:23 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
TheShadow Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 1722
Loc: SoCal High Desert
Are you using the direct drum with "built-in" stub shaft? You gotta tell us how that goes...

I've seen a LOT of failures because of worn/beat-to-death direct drum splines...
_________________________
'95 P71, 5xx,xxx miles, Rebuilt tranny, 2.73. Lives as a cab, and will die as a cab. (Died-FrontEnder)
'96 P71, 640,xxx on original drivetrain. (Now parts car - T-bone & roll)(You should see the roof - A,B & C-pillars chopped on driver side)
New to list: '96 MGM (Nice! @ 35x,xxx), '97 CV P71, '98 CV P71, '00 CV P71, 01 P71 (2 of 'em) '03 CV P71 (Nice so far) (All Ford Zinc Yellow w/Black decals & trim) And the list is growing...........
Taxicab mechanic: I HATE DRIVERS!

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#4092730 - 01/22/21 07:30 AM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
Fopeano Offline
n00b

Registered: 10/27/20
Posts: 23
Loc: Upstate NY
Yes I am (https://www.sonnax.com/parts/4646-smart-tech-direct-clutch-drum-shaft-kit), but it will be quite a bit of time before I can report in on long term field testing...

I love the idea of getting rid of that dinky little direct drive stub shaft. When I got the trans apart and saw that, the first thing I thought:

Failure
Of
Rational
Design
_________________________
-Fope
Fresh October 2020 Noob with Fords and my 2005 P71
YouTube channel of my cars, VR6 track days, blown up cars from work, and interesting work I've done

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#4094668 - 02/04/21 06:59 AM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
Fopeano Offline
n00b

Registered: 10/27/20
Posts: 23
Loc: Upstate NY
Quick update:

I've been having a lot of trouble getting the Raybestos Reds frictions, and every part supplier I've been dealing with is offering the same terrible customer service I've come to know very well in the world of aftermarket/modified auto parts.
_________________________
-Fope
Fresh October 2020 Noob with Fords and my 2005 P71
YouTube channel of my cars, VR6 track days, blown up cars from work, and interesting work I've done

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#4094872 - 02/04/21 11:09 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
TheShadow Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 1722
Loc: SoCal High Desert
Global Transmission claims to have them in stock:

https://globaltransmissionparts.com/aod-...-red-frictions/

Oh, wait, my bad...after rereading your prior posts...sorry for the false hope and sarcastic snicker...


Edited by TheShadow (02/04/21 11:15 PM)
_________________________
'95 P71, 5xx,xxx miles, Rebuilt tranny, 2.73. Lives as a cab, and will die as a cab. (Died-FrontEnder)
'96 P71, 640,xxx on original drivetrain. (Now parts car - T-bone & roll)(You should see the roof - A,B & C-pillars chopped on driver side)
New to list: '96 MGM (Nice! @ 35x,xxx), '97 CV P71, '98 CV P71, '00 CV P71, 01 P71 (2 of 'em) '03 CV P71 (Nice so far) (All Ford Zinc Yellow w/Black decals & trim) And the list is growing...........
Taxicab mechanic: I HATE DRIVERS!

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#4095044 - 02/06/21 07:51 AM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
Fopeano Offline
n00b

Registered: 10/27/20
Posts: 23
Loc: Upstate NY
No harm, I at least appreciate you being curious enough to be looking.

I'm a month into this and the first thing I can tell anybody is GTM, PATC, WITT, eBay, Amazon, and others all claim to have this stuff falling off their shelves until you put money down and/or manage to actually get someone on the phone.

All told, right now I have money down on multiple orders for the same parts from multiple suppliers that I can't get a hold of, and I just need to see what happens...


Edited by Fopeano (02/06/21 07:57 AM)
_________________________
-Fope
Fresh October 2020 Noob with Fords and my 2005 P71
YouTube channel of my cars, VR6 track days, blown up cars from work, and interesting work I've done

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#4096606 - 02/14/21 01:49 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
88grandmarq Offline

4R70W rebuilder
Poobah

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 6832
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By Fopeano
Quick update:

I've been having a lot of trouble getting the Raybestos Reds frictions, and every part supplier I've been dealing with is offering the same terrible customer service I've come to know very well in the world of aftermarket/modified auto parts.


why do you think you need the RED frictions?

The Factory "green" Dynax forward frictions used in 2011-2014 transmissions is far superior to any of the aftermarket "Red" frictions.
_________________________
2011 P7B - retired Jay county Indiana Sheriffs car
2003 Lincoln Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 09/2011
89 Crown Victoria LX- HPP Box - SOLD 09/2010
88 Grand Marquis LS - The original - Totaled 5/2006

I rebuild AODE/4R70W/4R75E Transmissions, check out my Facebook page for my latest project; https://www.facebook.com/Ford-transmission-repairs-Jmod-348414635312478/

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#4096714 - 02/14/21 10:47 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
Fopeano Offline
n00b

Registered: 10/27/20
Posts: 23
Loc: Upstate NY
I'll first say that I now supposedly have the Reds and GPZ direct frictions on the way from 2 different companies, and I'll see what happens.I'll bullet point the complex answer to this question from 88, which I appreciate being brought to my attention:

-This is the first I've heard of greens or Dynax.

-These suppliers I've looked at all show the same options for all years of AOD/AODE/4R70, and seem to show options for all years the trans was produced.

-The normal options seem to be the tan frictions or the High Energy.

-Stage 1 is made out to be more durable and better holding than stock, without having a blue plate level race engagement.

-The GPZ seems like the only middle ground for towing that is available, and is only available for the direct clutch.

-The 2 suppliers I have talked to agreed that the tan or HE clutches would have and issue towing 5000lbs up and down a mountain (I don't know, I'm inexperienced in towing).

-Actually I remember seeing a green friction module on wittrans, but I didn't think much of it because it had no description and I was so bent on on trying to find the reds. They have strictly factual listings of parts, that are not meant for my underinformed 'consumer level'.

I wouldn't mind paying you for a 30m phone call some evening to discuss this issue and shift kits. I have a zip kit and some superior kits (a shift kit with springs and drill bits, another with a 2-3 piston, a super servo, and sure-cool valve). I don't have any aftermarket plates yet. I'm best reached at [email protected] if you're interested.


Edited by Fopeano (02/14/21 11:12 PM)
_________________________
-Fope
Fresh October 2020 Noob with Fords and my 2005 P71
YouTube channel of my cars, VR6 track days, blown up cars from work, and interesting work I've done

Top
#4097262 - 02/17/21 02:26 PM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
HDmech Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/15/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Saskatchewan
I’m hung up on friction materials and glad you guys are talking about it. So many choices it does get confusing. Then throw in holding clutch or slipping clutch and waffled or smooth frictions for some more variables. That was very nice of 88grandmarq to suggest the factory frictions for the forward clutch. That works for me. Would be so easy to just go to ford and order frictions and steels for everything. Expensive but easy. Looking forward to next update Fope.
_________________________
03 marauder 4.6 4v - restoration underway 188000km- lots of mods
04 marquis 4.6 2v - in storage 267000km
08 f-150 5.4 3v - hibernation till spring 68000km
13 GMC Sierra 5.3 daily driver 48000km
10 raptor 6.2 - 324000km - new project

Top
#4098198 - 02/21/21 11:54 AM Re: 2005 P71 Transmission Towing Build [Re: Fopeano]
Fopeano Offline
n00b

Registered: 10/27/20
Posts: 23
Loc: Upstate NY
I've had such a terrible experience with parts for this project. It's par for the course even with the German cars I'm used to dealing with, but this is almost worthy of a Vinwiki car story at this point. The short version is that all of the suppliers I spent my money with, and some I didn't, did a bad job. It's only starting to come together now after 6 weeks, and get ready for a stupid read...

First I order all my rebuild parts from Global Transmission, with Raybestos Red Stage 1 frictions and Kolene steels. I asked for a matching add-on for for the extra friction and steel I need for both of the Sonnax high capacity direct and forward clutch drums I ordered from them.

Then I need a torque converter. I wanted one with a low stall speed like stock for towing, which only Monster Transmission sells, and it's upgraded. I get in touch with them and they offer me 2 bolt circles for attaching to the flex plate, 10.6" and 11.375".

Measurements for flex plate bolt circles are generally listed as 10.5" or 11.5", but that turned into a problem. To make a long story short, the real world measurements are 270mm/10.62x" or 290mm/11.38x". The Monster numbers are the closest to accurate on the market, but it ironically is a metric measurement down to the mm. Every advertised measurement is wrong, just an approximation for a truly metric number.

I contacted ADTR.net about this because they list a 10.5"/11.5" flex plate (like most other dealers) and a TCI deep trans pan I wanted (and they are a forum sponsor). Someone there texted me briefly about asking for a real measurement of the bolt circle on the flex plate they list. I was asked a few questions about my build and when I asked to get back to the point of getting accurate bolt-circle measurements, I was ghosted. Because of that, I bought the same TCI pan and a different flex plate from JEGS based on a 11.4" bolt circle in the listing. When I got the flex plate, it measured 290mm (very close to 11.4"). At that point, I pulled the trigger with Monster Transmission on the 11.375" TC and it turned out to fit exactly when I got them both together. I plan to do business with ADTR in the future because of the parts they list, but I now know better than to expect help with anything as a customer.

Then comes the problem with the clutch/steel availability...

GlobalTrans contacted me quickly to tell me the Reds are on backorder and they could only do factory Tans for now. I told them I can wait a month for them to sort out how to get me Reds, which they said they appreciated and would get it worked out. Last week (5 weeks later) I asked what was going on and said that PATC and WITtrans claimed to have these frictions and maybe they could get them there. Without responding, they finally sent my parts a few days later. The Reds came in a factory Raybestos blister pack, and the Kolene steels came in separately drop-shipped sealed-but-broken bags with rust colored blotches on the friction surfaces.

As stated, I needed an extra matching friction and steel for both of the aftermarket Sonnax forward and direct clutch baskets. Global had a single friction and steel drop-shipped for from a nearby Transtar dealer, but only for the direct clutch. I had been very clear that I had bought 2 high capacity clutch drums from them and needed additionals for both of them, but I only got parts for the direct clutch. The extra direct clutch disc that showed up was a Alto disc that did not match the Raybestos discs either in appearance or feel.

I had tried to ordered another set of Reds/Kolenes with the extras from PATC in the meantime, but that was a disaster. I first contacted them on 1/25 through web chat that was ignored, then email that was ignored, then several phone calls that were never answered. Then I just placed an order anyway on 2/14 because I'm getting desperate. I emailed them the other day about my order # and surprisingly got a response. Not that they knew what the order was, just that they were delayed by the TX/LA weather there and were sorry. Apparently that excused the 3 weeks of being ignored prior to that serious problem.

At that point, I ordered a whole 2nd set of Reds and Kolenes off Amazon.com (sold by Raybestos) for a higher cost than that any of the trans suppliers listed them just to get the issue put to bed. I could email Global and ask for the extras to be complete and correct, but their communication has been terrible despite being better than all the rest. The Amazon order shipped yesterday and I'm waiting for them to show up this week to make sure I'm good with all this crap.

I really wonder how people who are 2x/3x/4x deeper into aftermarket parts needs than I am can stand it. 20 years ago, parts suppliers I spent money with cared about their customers. These days, customer service has gotten so bad that I'm thinking of just throwing my whole car hobby away...
_________________________
-Fope
Fresh October 2020 Noob with Fords and my 2005 P71
YouTube channel of my cars, VR6 track days, blown up cars from work, and interesting work I've done

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