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#4095738 - 02/10/21 09:02 AM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: Dmblanch]
Huhnigan Offline

vonirkinshtine
Over the Hill

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 3722
Loc: LKN, NC
Originally Posted By Dmblanch
I don't think so. Of the five I've sold, one was to a twenty something working man who thought he was going to make a project car out of it, one was to a college kid whose mom had a MGM and pushed him to get a Vic. He didn't want the push bar, console or the lights it had on it and had me take them off for a lower price. One was to a 45 year old professional father who had heard about their robust reliability. His wife drives it now. The fourth and fifth were sold to 18 and 21 year old college girls. Since I rent my P71's to movie companies while I have them, they often have (or get added) police lights consoles and pushbars. Most of the time my buyers don't care about them and no one wants a Black and White. I have to repaint them.


That is wild.
_________________________
2004 Crown Victoria LX Sport. 3rd owner (I personally knew both previous owners).

Originally Posted By EMTSteve
I'm not with Law Inforcment

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#4095754 - 02/10/21 11:47 AM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: Tenevic_P71]
metro21 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 1091
Loc: CA
People are finally starting to realize what we all here have known for a long time- these cars are dependable, reliable, simple, cheap and easy to work on (by yourself for the most part without going to the dealer or needing a fancy scan tool) and most importantly have a transmission fluid dip stick! I also think lack of supply is helping the prices go up along with way more exposure on social media.

Some of the prices I see on Ebay just make me laugh though. There's one CVPI guy in So Cal that has your typical CVPI SAP with 120k going for almost $12k. Five years ago, it would have been half that.

What kills me about the auction stuff too is that in top of the price, the seller pays auction fees up to 20% of the sale price and some are halfway across the country so they have to fly/ drive in or arrange for truck transport. I've drooled over some nice norsea blue SAP's on the east coast but no way I'm flying there and driving it back or paying and dealing with a rig to bring it to me in CA.
_________________________
Pantherless as of Feb. 2021
Formerly Owned Panthers: Gold 00 CVPI SAP, Black 05 CVPI SAP, White 07 CVPI SAP

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#4095760 - 02/10/21 11:55 AM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: metro21]
2011LX Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 1459
Loc: SE WI
Originally Posted By metro21

Some of the prices I see on Ebay just make me laugh though. There's one CVPI guy in So Cal that has your typical CVPI SAP with 120k going for almost $12k. Five years ago, it would have been half that.



Asking price isn't the same as selling price.

But anyway, prices of new cars are up. That means prices of used cars are also up.

If you look around, you'll find that used car prices are NOT just a Crown Vic thing, right now. They're ALL through the roof. It's a bad time to be car shopping.
_________________________
2011 Crown Victoria LX - purchased @ 37k miles
currently @ 100k miles
Dark Toreador Red Metallic exterior
Medium Light Stone interior

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#4095768 - 02/10/21 12:29 PM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: 2011LX]
TheNarrator Offline
Member

Registered: 01/20/21
Posts: 298
Loc: SW Florida
Originally Posted By 2011LX
Originally Posted By metro21

Some of the prices I see on Ebay just make me laugh though. There's one CVPI guy in So Cal that has your typical CVPI SAP with 120k going for almost $12k. Five years ago, it would have been half that.



Asking price isn't the same as selling price.

But anyway, prices of new cars are up. That means prices of used cars are also up.

If you look around, you'll find that used car prices are NOT just a Crown Vic thing, right now. They're ALL through the roof. It's a bad time to be car shopping.

I'm car shopping or at least looking. oop
_________________________
Click to reveal...
Originally Posted By a_d_a_m
How To Make A Weenie Whip
1 shot Canadian Club whisky (since he's not allowed to enter Canada anymore)
1 shot Captain Morgan spiced rum (since he was going to be the captain of his own ship)
a splash of 151 (to take the wrinkles out of your pants)
RC Cola to taste (served on the rocks, just like a shipwrecked boat)
Originally Posted By Old_Guy_Stu
boxes are about as aerodynamic as a cathedral.

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#4095812 - 02/10/21 02:58 PM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: Tenevic_P71]
Dmblanch Offline
Climber

Registered: 11/13/19
Posts: 640
Loc: Utah
I agree with all the above on this last page, and have a few more thoughts.

1) I can't believe those ridiculous ask prices ever sell close to what they think they want. Around here there was a guy selling a very nice 2011 P71 with about 65K miles, blemish free. He wanted $6500 for it and I bought and sold two others, lesser cars, but very nice under 100K P71's, in the same time that his didn't budge. My old target price for one of these decent, cleaned up, mechanically solid P71's used to be about $3500. The last one I sold got over $4000. Now my target price is $4000.

2) Here's another thing about young buyers... they do NOT know how to negotiate. They are easy to talk into paying full price. Last two I've sold went for ask price, but then I'm careful to scan the retail market before I post and I always post for a couple of hundred less than its closest competitor. Then I hold firm.

3) Auction Prices -- Since I shop them all, I'm very cognizant of the additional fees. Some are outrageous, some are pretty reasonable. I've seen as low as 7% and they can vary WITHIN the forum. You always have to be aware if there is an additional credit card charge on top of auction fees and if there is you pay by bank transfer. You have to watch out for the sales tax surcharge if you're an out of state buyer. You shouldn't pay it, but some sellers tack it on to the price and won't remove it. I've seen all combinations in the cars I've bought. Some added it and I had to convince my state not to double charge me upon registration. Some added it, then refunded it later. Some took it off before close. Unpredictable.

The worst offender in my area is actually the biggest "live" auction house: TNTauction.com. With Covid, they were forced to move to an all on-line auction format, which formerly was only an option for the lazy folks... an option that came with extra fees and a $1000 credit card deposit. Now everyone pays this way and fees for these pig in a poke "live" auctions now push 20%.

And in spite of this, in spite of the fact that they disclose almost nothing about their vehicles' history or provenance, these cars frequently push retail prices. Often, when fees are calculated, these auction buyers are paying more than retail. It's absurd.
_________________________

1) 2002 White P71 - 89K miles. 2) 2003 B&W P71 - 74K. 3) & 6) & 11) 2005 White P71 - 54K, 74k, 115K. 4) 2011 Black P7B - 79K. 5) 2008 White P71 - 95k. 7) 2004 Silver P71 - 104K. 8) 2004 DT Red LX Sport - 111K. 9) & 10) 2010 White P7B SAP - 104K & 106K. 12) 2006 White P71 - scrapped. 13) 2007 Gray LX Sport - 125k. 14) 2006 White MGM LS Premium - 93k.

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#4095864 - 02/10/21 07:29 PM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: Tenevic_P71]
GM_Guy Offline
Posting Addict

Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18773
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
Too many people have "found" auctions and get carried away. Local auction place (regular stuff, not auto), always watching it, rarely get anything anymore as bidding is stupid, often going as high as retail, sometimes higher. Nobody seems to do their homework and get caught up in trying to be winning bid as if its some sort of bragging right.
_________________________
Box stuff in the Box forum!

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#4095924 - 02/10/21 11:46 PM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: GM_Guy]
metro21 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 1091
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By GM_Guy
Too many people have "found" auctions and get carried away. Local auction place (regular stuff, not auto), always watching it, rarely get anything anymore as bidding is stupid, often going as high as retail, sometimes higher. Nobody seems to do their homework and get caught up in trying to be winning bid as if its some sort of bragging right.


I agree. Pre-COVID, at in person auctions,I would see inexperienced newbs bid up to and even over retail on some vehicles. It got to where even the crowd was laughing and yelling at them that they were being stupid and paying more than what they could buy it for on CL or FB MP. Suckers galore!

I've checked out a certain major online auction house near me after looking at the posted photos on their website. You can still check the cars out in person but cannot bid on them in person. It's amazing what you don't see (and cannot smell) in those few photos that can make and usually break a bid. Cars that looked acceptable in online photos were usually not as good in person- those of you brave enough to online date know what I mean. I've noticed that online bidding seems to drive up the price more than in person bidding too for some weird reason. All the cars I've bought from auction have been in person. I have never bought a car at an online auction due to the ridiculous online rat race and ultimate selling price. Scary part is you know most of the time the buyer has not seen the car in person and is solely relying on the photos.

And yeah, I get that asking price and selling price are two different things but in the end, the selling price is usually not too far from the asking.
_________________________
Pantherless as of Feb. 2021
Formerly Owned Panthers: Gold 00 CVPI SAP, Black 05 CVPI SAP, White 07 CVPI SAP

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#4096008 - 02/11/21 02:10 PM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: Tenevic_P71]
Huhnigan Offline

vonirkinshtine
Over the Hill

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 3722
Loc: LKN, NC
And you can pretty much forget trying to get a P71 at auction in Florida. Every time Ol' Cleetus has a race he buys like 20 of those things, haha.
_________________________
2004 Crown Victoria LX Sport. 3rd owner (I personally knew both previous owners).

Originally Posted By EMTSteve
I'm not with Law Inforcment

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#4096022 - 02/11/21 03:11 PM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: Huhnigan]
TheNarrator Offline
Member

Registered: 01/20/21
Posts: 298
Loc: SW Florida
Originally Posted By Huhnigan
And you can pretty much forget trying to get a P71 at auction in Florida. Every time Ol' Cleetus has a race he buys like 20 of those things, haha.

This is why I'm looking into getting a MGM.
_________________________
Click to reveal...
Originally Posted By a_d_a_m
How To Make A Weenie Whip
1 shot Canadian Club whisky (since he's not allowed to enter Canada anymore)
1 shot Captain Morgan spiced rum (since he was going to be the captain of his own ship)
a splash of 151 (to take the wrinkles out of your pants)
RC Cola to taste (served on the rocks, just like a shipwrecked boat)
Originally Posted By Old_Guy_Stu
boxes are about as aerodynamic as a cathedral.

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#4096040 - 02/11/21 05:09 PM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: Tenevic_P71]
GRMN_CV Offline
n00b

Registered: 12/07/20
Posts: 33
Loc: Germany
Was wondering why nobody mentioned it yet.

Last summer I stumbled upon a nice Vic. Black chiefs car, tan interior, about 100k mls. Mint. 3.55 gears. Was somewhat 3000ish $.

I did not buy it. Beginning of this year this Idea came back to my mind. I was like: OK,I really need to buy a CV.

But what I find now are high milage cars for double that price.

So was this car some kind of lucky find or a fake or are prices skyrocketing at the moment?

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#4096042 - 02/11/21 05:19 PM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: metro21]
Dmblanch Offline
Climber

Registered: 11/13/19
Posts: 640
Loc: Utah

Quote:

I agree. Pre-COVID, at in person auctions,I would see inexperienced newbs bid up to and even over retail on some vehicles. It got to where even the crowd was laughing and yelling at them that they were being stupid and paying more than what they could buy it for on CL or FB MP. Suckers galore!

I've checked out a certain major online auction house near me after looking at the posted photos on their website. You can still check the cars out in person but cannot bid on them in person. It's amazing what you don't see (and cannot smell) in those few photos that can make and usually break a bid. Cars that looked acceptable in online photos were usually not as good in person- those of you brave enough to online date know what I mean. I've noticed that online bidding seems to drive up the price more than in person bidding too for some weird reason. All the cars I've bought from auction have been in person. I have never bought a car at an online auction due to the ridiculous online rat race and ultimate selling price. Scary part is you know most of the time the buyer has not seen the car in person and is solely relying on the photos.

And yeah, I get that asking price and selling price are two different things but in the end, the selling price is usually not too far from the asking.


You're talking about the GovDeals lot down in Fontana. Sadly it culls from SoCal departments, principally Orange County, and those cars are rode hard and put away wet. Plus they command too high prices because they draw bidders from a huge population center. GovDeals auctions in other states and smaller burgs act more normally.

I'm the flip side of you, I've never purchased a car from an in-person auction, all my buys (over a dozen) have been from on-line auction houses, direct from the owner/seller and except for one, I've never seen them before I picked them up. All have been driven home.

What's the reason for this? On-line auctions disclose MUCH more information about the cars than do the in-person middleman auction lots, who often post no more than three to five small, fuzzy pictures, the od read-out and whether the thing was towed in or not. They maintain arms-length isolation by saying they know nothing about the car, not even if it runs or not. When you get to the lot on auction day and actually look at the pigs that have been dumped on them, they are invariably worse than even the fuzzy photos indicate.

On-line auction cars are usually being sold BY THE OWNING AGENCY and they disclose much more about the car, along with ten to 50 better quality photos. About 50% of the time they post the complete fleet service records. It's much less a pig in a poke.

Of course, product varies tremendously based on the selling agency. Some sellers are difficult and their product isn't good. AZ DOT only sells shot out crap. Orange County will not sell any police vehicle to the public that has non-opening rear doors (which means 99% of them). Ventura County has good vehicles, but they put high reserve prices on them that are above retail, so they relist the same vehicles over and over again. You eventually learn to follow only the good sellers who offer good cars the right way. I end up buying from the same half dozen sellers over and over again.
_________________________

1) 2002 White P71 - 89K miles. 2) 2003 B&W P71 - 74K. 3) & 6) & 11) 2005 White P71 - 54K, 74k, 115K. 4) 2011 Black P7B - 79K. 5) 2008 White P71 - 95k. 7) 2004 Silver P71 - 104K. 8) 2004 DT Red LX Sport - 111K. 9) & 10) 2010 White P7B SAP - 104K & 106K. 12) 2006 White P71 - scrapped. 13) 2007 Gray LX Sport - 125k. 14) 2006 White MGM LS Premium - 93k.

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#4096104 - 02/11/21 09:31 PM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: Huhnigan]
CommanderCody Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/18
Posts: 208
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By Huhnigan
Another thing I find interesting. There is no price difference between a retired police interceptor and a loaded Grand Marquis of the same year. So I definitely think the craze is centered around the P71. I think across the entire Panther platform the the P71 is fetching top dollar (with the exception of the Marauder obviously). You can get way more car/$$$ if you shop a GMQ or TC. But the P71 is what people are after.


Way more car is somewhat subjective. Yes you get more luxury features with those models, but its also more complexity, more stuff to break,, more weight, and lessor drivetrain setups. While most P71s have had hard first lives, they do have many performance enhancements over most regular Panthers which could also be argued as being more car for the money. Ie, 11 more HP, better intake, better stall speed, better gearing, stiffer springs, etc. Also the lower number of superfluous luxury items is seen as an advantage by some. Sometimes its better and cheaper to buy a car sub model that already has the better performance options already installed rather than adding them to a base powertrain model car.

A common complaint with modern cars is that you can't get stripped down performance models. Most performance drivetrain models come prepacked with extra superfluous luxury items that drive up prices and add weight that is counterproductive to performance. Thus some of the appeal of police package cars is that they are/were a cheap way to get stripped down cars with factory performance goodies which were sometimes not even made available to normal non police models.



Edited by CommanderCody (02/11/21 09:37 PM)
_________________________
2008 P71 EX-National Park Service, throttle comb delete, Jmod, passenger airbag switch, splash guards, police trunk pack, Gamber Johnson floor plate, Havis console, and Tuffy cup holders.
1987 Buick Regal Limited with SBC V8 swap, TES headers, electronic Qjet, ZZ4 chip, THM200-4R 4 speed trans, 3.73 ratio posi rear end, and KYB shocks.
2002 Ford Ranger 4x4 4L
1946 Farmall Model A tractor with 12v alternator upgrade and electronic ignition.

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#4096236 - 02/12/21 12:50 PM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: Tenevic_P71]
DudeAbides Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 4570
Loc: California, Uber Alles
I got my P71 in 2012; it was my first car in 25 years. I previously rode motorcycles exclusively for transportation. EFI, power windows, ABS, A/C. It had things none of my previous cars had, so it was loaded!
_________________________
Originally Posted By 73vwTodd
That's a stretch to suggest he got T-boned because he didn't stay home.


2008 P71: Dual spot lamps & a Marauder spoiler; business up front, party in the back.
2005 Powell-Peralta Jay Smith Re-issue, Independent 169s, Powell Bones Mini Cubics, Bones Super 6 Bearings.

How will I laugh tomorrow, when I can't even smile today?

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#4096250 - 02/12/21 02:08 PM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: Dmblanch]
metro21 Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 1091
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By Dmblanch

Quote:

I agree. Pre-COVID, at in person auctions,I would see inexperienced newbs bid up to and even over retail on some vehicles. It got to where even the crowd was laughing and yelling at them that they were being stupid and paying more than what they could buy it for on CL or FB MP. Suckers galore!

I've checked out a certain major online auction house near me after looking at the posted photos on their website. You can still check the cars out in person but cannot bid on them in person. It's amazing what you don't see (and cannot smell) in those few photos that can make and usually break a bid. Cars that looked acceptable in online photos were usually not as good in person- those of you brave enough to online date know what I mean. I've noticed that online bidding seems to drive up the price more than in person bidding too for some weird reason. All the cars I've bought from auction have been in person. I have never bought a car at an online auction due to the ridiculous online rat race and ultimate selling price. Scary part is you know most of the time the buyer has not seen the car in person and is solely relying on the photos.

And yeah, I get that asking price and selling price are two different things but in the end, the selling price is usually not too far from the asking.


You're talking about the GovDeals lot down in Fontana. Sadly it culls from SoCal departments, principally Orange County, and those cars are rode hard and put away wet. Plus they command too high prices because they draw bidders from a huge population center. GovDeals auctions in other states and smaller burgs act more normally.

I'm the flip side of you, I've never purchased a car from an in-person auction, all my buys (over a dozen) have been from on-line auction houses, direct from the owner/seller and except for one, I've never seen them before I picked them up. All have been driven home.

What's the reason for this? On-line auctions disclose MUCH more information about the cars than do the in-person middleman auction lots, who often post no more than three to five small, fuzzy pictures, the od read-out and whether the thing was towed in or not. They maintain arms-length isolation by saying they know nothing about the car, not even if it runs or not. When you get to the lot on auction day and actually look at the pigs that have been dumped on them, they are invariably worse than even the fuzzy photos indicate.

On-line auction cars are usually being sold BY THE OWNING AGENCY and they disclose much more about the car, along with ten to 50 better quality photos. About 50% of the time they post the complete fleet service records. It's much less a pig in a poke.

Of course, product varies tremendously based on the selling agency. Some sellers are difficult and their product isn't good. AZ DOT only sells shot out crap. Orange County will not sell any police vehicle to the public that has non-opening rear doors (which means 99% of them). Ventura County has good vehicles, but they put high reserve prices on them that are above retail, so they relist the same vehicles over and over again. You eventually learn to follow only the good sellers who offer good cars the right way. I end up buying from the same half dozen sellers over and over again.


I check out GovDeals too but the good ones (like in SoCal/ Fontana/ Y Valley) are usually too far away to make it worthwhile for me or are dealer/ out of state only.

I was referring to JJ Kane as there is a physical site not too far from me where the cars are and can be inspected. After actual physically seeing the cars from the last auction and seeing how much they went for online including fees, I was astounded. I just laughed at the the thought of the winner coming to see their car for the first time in person and thinking, "OMG! WTF!?" Unless they're buying it for themselves as a keeper, I don't see how they would make much profit off it to make it worthwhile for them once you factor in all expenses.
_________________________
Pantherless as of Feb. 2021
Formerly Owned Panthers: Gold 00 CVPI SAP, Black 05 CVPI SAP, White 07 CVPI SAP

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#4096336 - 02/12/21 11:16 PM Re: Inflated P71 Auction Prices [Re: Tenevic_P71]
RipWixomAssembly Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/20
Posts: 128
Loc: Michigan
Yeah. It seems to be they're high on GovDeals. Seen quite a few Ex-CT State Police units not going for obscene prices though. They sell on PropertyRoom.
_________________________
RIP Wixom Assembly 1957-2012 CVN Discord
My Rides:
1995 Lincoln Town Car 129K miles.


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