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#4096152 - 02/12/21 02:00 AM Question on air suspension sequence
MCM1 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/20/21
Posts: 5
Loc: California
Hello CV brethren,

I posted this question accidentally in another thread, i think it belongs here. Apologize for the duplicate.

I'm trying to keep my 2000 CV Lx alive to see 300K miles. The driver side, Arnott air spring sprung a leak I got about 10 years out of it. What a PITA it is to replace because the solenoid impossible to remove when installed in car (now they tell me your supposed to grease the solenoid when connecting to bag).

Ok, so there is still a leak. Bags go down after 2 days. Replaced the drier (no more leak there).

If the solenoids at the springs stay closed after the car levels, the leak must be at the solenoid correct? If the solenoid only opens when the trim needs raising or lowering, then the only place to leak over night has to be the bag or at the solenoid/bag interface, right?

Otherwise, if the airbags are open to the air line back to the compressor, then that whole line is suspect, including up to the dump valve. I might as well replace the whole line and be done with it. No trouble codes, just a low rider after a couple of days.

Does this sound correct? If that is true (solenoids close after reaching trim), then both side would have leaks if both bags deflate after a couple of days of sitting (which means leaks on both sides.)

If the solenoids stay open when car is left overnight, then a leak can be anywhere along the air line and will deflate both bags.

If i can confirm, this will narrow down my search.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

thanks!!
_________________________
2000 Crown Victoria Lx Touring Package

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#4096198 - 02/12/21 08:54 AM Re: Question on air suspension sequence [Re: MCM1]
HDmech Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/15/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Saskatchewan
MCM1 I replaced air bags on an 03 marauder 3yrs ago, didn’t grease solenoid o-rings and had a slow leak as well. Lubed o-rings and been good ever since. Good chance that’s the issue. Solenoids are normally closed. I just reinstalled the air springs in the car after sitting on my bench for 2yrs all aired up with solenoids installed.
_________________________
03 marauder 4.6 4v - restoration underway 188000km- lots of mods
04 marquis 4.6 2v - in storage 267000km
08 f-150 5.4 3v - hibernation till spring 68000km
13 GMC Sierra 5.3 daily driver 48000km
10 raptor 6.2 - 324000km - new project

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#4096654 - 02/14/21 05:02 PM Re: Question on air suspension sequence [Re: MCM1]
MCM1 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/20/21
Posts: 5
Loc: California
Thank HDmech. I removed and greased both solenoids and plugged them back in. I think there is still a leak as when left overnight the compressor still runs and the rear still rises the next morning. I cant tell if the compressor runs every stop/start cycle as a default or if the drop overnight (not really perceptible). I will leave for a few days and see how far it drops.

If the valves are NC, then the only way for the suspension to drop is through the bag or the valve. It doesnt seem logical that both solenoids would be bad (stuck open) but maybe after 20 years and 275K miles they are both bad. both bags deflate when sitting.

Would the solenoids be the next part to change? I dont think its practical for me to soap it up and try to get a mirror up there to see if i can see a leak.

Thanks again for the reply.
_________________________
2000 Crown Victoria Lx Touring Package

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#4097212 - 02/17/21 10:37 AM Re: Question on air suspension sequence [Re: MCM1]
HDmech Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/15/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Saskatchewan
MCM1 I see 3 possible leak points. Air bag, solenoid o-ring and through the interior of the solenoid itself. With both dropping that’s 2 problems. I know you can remove and install them inflated because I just did it. Put it underwater and you’ll find leak pretty quick. You would have to remove both lower shock bolts and probably the air ride sensor rod to get them out. Watch brake lines also.

Simply installing new solenoids may solve your problems but it also may not.
_________________________
03 marauder 4.6 4v - restoration underway 188000km- lots of mods
04 marquis 4.6 2v - in storage 267000km
08 f-150 5.4 3v - hibernation till spring 68000km
13 GMC Sierra 5.3 daily driver 48000km
10 raptor 6.2 - 324000km - new project

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#4097858 - 02/19/21 06:34 PM Re: Question on air suspension sequence [Re: MCM1]
MCM1 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/20/21
Posts: 5
Loc: California
Thanks HDmech. I must have R&R'd each side 3 or 4 times now. Installed new solenoids. I will probably test the old ones. Drivers side now has new bag and soelnoid. Old bag had a leak. This is the 3rd bag on this side. Second one Arnot HD limo bag. I could not, for the life of me remove or install that solenoid. I had to remove the bag to get enough force to remove. The passenger side bag did not have this problem and still has the second Arnot HD spring. So passenger side has good bag and new solenoid with lube.

Now, the driver side, with the new (3rd) bag, impossible to get the solenoid to seat and turn to lock in. I bench tested the old set up (old HD bag and old solenoid/new solenoid) and can do it on the bench because i can apply enough torque with my bare hands. I always used the o-rings it came with.

I think this is the 2nd defective (out of tolerance) airbag from Arnot. that make 2/3 bags from Arnot where there has to be an appreciable mount of force to seat the solenoid into the housing. Which makes me think both OEM solenoids went bad and were bleeding back into the airlines, which probably are not intended to stay charged.

I said quite a few cusswords (some old, some new) over this project. Hopefully this puts an end to it. I will probably bucket test the OEM solenoids just to make me feel better.

One question, on start up, I heard a large pop. I think the passenger airbag reached full pressure first. The air suspension then stopped, so i started another cycle and then heard it pop again. Jacked it up trying to figure out WTF happened but everything looks good and no audible leaks.

Is there an over pressure relief valve in the system that will open if the pressure gets to high? Its hard to believe that one bag would have a different pressure than the other while both solenoids are open and filling. I just want to make sure I didnt break something else. if you have an idea what those noises were, would be great if you could point it out. Many thanks!
_________________________
2000 Crown Victoria Lx Touring Package

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#4098230 - 02/21/21 01:58 PM Re: Question on air suspension sequence [Re: MCM1]
HDmech Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/15/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Saskatchewan
About the popping noises you heard, all I can think of is if airbags were empty and not folded into themselves correctly then aired up they can definitely make a popping sound when they finally take shape 1st time aired up.
_________________________
03 marauder 4.6 4v - restoration underway 188000km- lots of mods
04 marquis 4.6 2v - in storage 267000km
08 f-150 5.4 3v - hibernation till spring 68000km
13 GMC Sierra 5.3 daily driver 48000km
10 raptor 6.2 - 324000km - new project

Top
#4098488 - 02/22/21 02:25 PM Re: Question on air suspension sequence [Re: MCM1]
MCM1 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/20/21
Posts: 5
Loc: California
You were correct, replacing the solenoids did not solve the problem. Both sides deflate at the same rate, over a couple of days.

It doesn't seem realistic to think that the controller faults and keeps a voltage on the solenoids to keep them open.

My money is on the O-rings.

I suppose i will test the new bag/solenoid combo. Air it up on the bench with a compressor. If 12 V is applied to the solenoid, it should open and allow me to inflate the bag? I will test with the old ones first. If it does leak between the solenoid and the housing, what next, just keep replacing o-rings until i find ones that work?
_________________________
2000 Crown Victoria Lx Touring Package

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#4098662 - 02/23/21 07:51 AM Re: Question on air suspension sequence [Re: MCM1]
HDmech Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/15/18
Posts: 48
Loc: Saskatchewan
I agree it should be possible to air up bags on the bench but whether its 12v that’s required I’m not sure about. I have an 03 wiring diagram manual and I see power for solenoids comes from air suspension module but can’t find any info on a specific voltage. That’s why I suggested removing bags already aired up but that’s definitely a lot more work. You could disconnect solenoid wire and check voltage right after you start it then you would know.

You should be able to eliminate any possibility of power going to solenoids by shutting off air suspension switch in trunk.
_________________________
03 marauder 4.6 4v - restoration underway 188000km- lots of mods
04 marquis 4.6 2v - in storage 267000km
08 f-150 5.4 3v - hibernation till spring 68000km
13 GMC Sierra 5.3 daily driver 48000km
10 raptor 6.2 - 324000km - new project

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