Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! registry | CVN on Facebook | tech | news | email login Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure!


Welcome to CVN - Your Panther platform headquarters!


Custom Search


Page 95 of 96 < 1 2 93 94 95 96 >
Topic Options
#4105166 - 04/14/21 12:55 PM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: av8or1]
astrae Offline
n00b

Registered: 04/12/21
Posts: 12
Loc: CA
this is a fun read. I'm impressed with your knowledge and dedication smile

Top
#4105520 - 04/19/21 12:16 AM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: astrae]
av8or1 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 1423
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By Old_Guy_Stu
Skip the stability control unless you drive in snow all the time and don't know how. ABS is all you need, and honestly you don't even need that unless you drive like a gorilla.

Yeah, I tend to agree with you on this one. I'd likely go in that direction if I was the intended recipient of this franken-creation. 'Cept I am not. It's for the wife-eee. Thus anything I can do to increase safety for a relatively lesser-experienced driver is of prime importance in this particular build. This is the reason for the cornering lights, the fog lights, the upgraded brakes and suspension components, etc. And now the TCS. Ol' Blue came with it, sans AdvanceTrac, and so I plan to reinstate it for the wife-eee (and son). Speaking of that, I made a decision WRT the ABS/HCU unit: I will go with the one from the 2008 GMQ, since both it and Ol' Blue were birds of the same feather in this regard on their respective build sheets. I began cleaning the GMQ unit tonight but had to end things there as family duties called.

Originally Posted By astrae
this is a fun read. I'm impressed with your knowledge and dedication smile

Thank you, 'preciate the sentiment.

So the past few days has seen some activity with the project. The usual work-n-family stuff being the customary obstacles as always. And as always, no complaints, just sayin'. First thing's first though: in a separate thread I commented regarding an upcoming repair that TheCableGuy has on his radar. It involves the removal of the power steering rack. In my reply I mentioned that, although the overall process to do this in a Panther is relatively straightforward, it isn't as simple as freeing the tie rods, unthreading the nuts on the steering rack studs and then pulling the rack off of those studs. There is a clearance issue on the driver's side that you'll need to contend with. Specifically the pressure and return lines collide with the oil cooler portion of that housing that is mounted to the block. Thus you need to remove the studs in order to remove the rack. And actually if you were being lazy you might could get away with removing only the driver's side stud. I did both when removing the rack at a yard in order to get to someething else, but neither here nor there. And of course I removed the engine on Ol' Blue prior to removing the steering rack so no clearance issue there. laugh

Anyway here is a quick video regarding that:
Power Steering Rack Removal

As a FWIW. Note that if the oil filter adapter doesn't have the oil cooler section, then you might not have this clearance problem. However I've only attempted the removal of the power steering rack on a CVPI, which does have the oil cooler (on these year models at least). Thus I wouldn't know. I could have discovered more regarding this phenomenon when I removed the rack from Ol' Blue, but as mentioned I had already removed the engine by that point. My suspicion is that without the oil cooler, you could just slide the rack off of the studs. However I don't like speaking about stuff I haven't personally done or witnessed, so I'll leave it at that.

Ok onto the build. Next on the agenda was to take a closer look at the spindles. The purpose was to assess their condition, as well as that of the hubs. Spindle-wise, apart from some small nibbles on the pax side, they were in good condition. Backing plates were undamaged. Both hubs though ... well they were showing all of the ~130K+ miles that had (presumably) been put on them. Sounded like gravel turning in a bin on the driver's side. Neither was horrible and you could have re-used them if on a budget. However I decided to go-new. And so out they came:


The hubs went into the metal scrap container for the son while the spindles received the usual treatment of cleaning, scrubbing, cleaning, primer:


And paint:


'Went with aluminum again. Thought it might match the crossmember well. Alright so if you'll pardon the preachy aspect of the following, you'll be in the ballpark of my intent in conveying it.

[CLIMBS UP ON SOAPBOX]
I've decided to give up the ghost with RockAuto. I've used them over the years and even in this build. However as I have mentioned I have never been a fan of their customer service model. Nor their return policies. Case in point were these SKF hubs:


I chose them because the Motorcraft variants were ~$60 more expensive, the SKFs had good reviews and I haven't experienced an issue with SKF parts that I've sourced in the past. Relatively small number therein, I'll give ya that, but still, it seemed worthy of a punt. However in the end I was having buyer's remorse. I shoulda shelled out for the Motorcrafts. Nothing stuck out as odd with these SKF hubs, 'cept for the speed sensor harness that comes with them:


That said, even the Motorcraft hubs appeared to have a different harness from what I see from-the-factory on these Panthers. So that wasn't it. Call it a sixth sense, just thought better of it. So I looked into a return. Yikes. I would need to pay return shipping + a restocking fee. Never mind that one of the ones that they sent to me had been previously opened by someone else (thus the differently sized boxes in the above picture - a scenario that didn't sit well with me I might add). And so my experience with RockAuto will come to an end on that note. I've already sourced parts in this build with equivalents through Amazon. So I think I'll head in that direction due to the better return policy and faster shipping, not to mention the free-with-prime-membership initial shipping.
[AND WE'RE BACK OFF OF THE SOAPBOX]

The choice of aluminum for the spindles was a good one, as it does indeed go-well with the crossmember:


So those are installed. I then torqued everything down up front (save the front stabilizer bar of course). Values were:

Upper control arm = 111 ft-lbs
Upper and lower ball joints = 111 ft-lbs
Shock absorber to lower control arm = 166 ft-lbs
Hub to spindle = 74 ft-lbs

And speaking of the front stabilizer bar, I cleaned, scrubbed, cleaned-n-prepped, primed and painted the one from the 2007 CVPI (which BTW was the subject vehicle in the above video) as well:


Decided to source new bushings for it too, as the old ones were in just-ok condition. So why not? I'm here. Funny, but the blue color is in the ballpark-ish-ish of Dark Blue Pearl, so that's kinda interesting. I digress. Finally, we installed the rear stabilizer bar and drop links tonight:


And David even remembered where it was 2 days after being told about it - hah! Stu, perhaps you were onto something there! laugh

So that's where things are at the moment. Gotta finish the ABS/HCU and install that tomorrow after work, then we'll see what follows. I'd like to finish off the caliper rebuilds and install those next if possible. The shipment from RockAuto has been delayed, yet another reason I'll pulling the plug, but I digress.

Hope all is well!


Edited by av8or1 (04/19/21 12:31 AM)
_________________________
2010 CVPI (Former TEXAS Highway Patrol vehicle) POTM April 2020 double thumbs
2006 LX Sport air ride delete (2)
2006 F450 SD 6.0L PSD CC LWB flatbed 4x4
1985 Mazda RX7 GSL-SE
1970 Plymouth Road Runner A383 pistol grip tick-tock buckets

Top
#4106156 - 04/24/21 12:07 AM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: av8or1]
av8or1 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 1423
Loc: TX
Well fellas I've been making progress little-by-little during the past week. The ABS/HCU from the 2008 GMQ was first up; I decided to give it just a touch of sprucing. So it was taped:


And given the usual treatment. Came out better than it went it, so no complaints:


Not show car worthy, but most certainly improved. The best part, as always, was how the lil 'un wanted to help with it.
With most everything really. Anyway I showed him how to reconnect the brake lines and then turned him loose on those:


The last shipment from RockAuto arrived (finally). It contained the seals for the new pistons. And so I revisited the calipers, freshening the DX paint where necessary:


Then installed the new seals and pistons:


I decided that since the parts were cheap enough, that I'd just replace all of the sliding pin stuff. I went with Motorcraft in the front and some Raybestos offering in the rear. The latter was made in China and felt cheap, so I can't really recommend it. Bleeech. I retained the old boots with the purpose of reinstating them into service when these go; TBD. Anyway here is the part number for the front kit, in case you're interested:


Small investment expense-wise, so it was worth it. Reassembled and ready for installation:


At random, I began with the rear brakes. I noticed that the driver's side brake line was looking just a smidge tired:


So I decided to replace it with the one that came with the rear axle from the CVPI. In the end the rear brakes came out looking not-so-shabby I'd say:


Next was the front stabilizer bar and drop links. The latter was definitely in need of replacement:


And that dropped in rather easily. Kinda fiddly when connecting the links to the bar, but it always is. No worries though, easy enough.

I then turned my attention to the front brakes. However I decided to begin with a re-working of the new wheel speed sensor harness that came with those SKF hubs. To speak openly I wasn't a fan of how they designed it. The locations for the attachment points were incorrect and it was missing loom (protection) in several places, as I illustrated in a previous post. And what wiring loom was there was as low in quality as the crap that I (shouldn't have) bought off of Amazon. I'm tellin' ya, it's difficult to come by good, new loom these days. If you can find some in a salvage yard that is OEM and still in good shape, grab it. I've begun bringing home what I can reasonably harvest during each run that I make. I digress. So. I decided to begin by adding some of the crap Amazon harness ('cause it's all I had of that diameter - and I need to use it, since I bought it 'n all dontchaknow):


However I would cover all of this cheap loom, regardless of origin, with some of the new-fangled, fancy electrical tape:


I figure that if you cover even the cheap loom with enough of this stuff, it's bound to wear well over time. Or so the hope/thought goes. We'll see. Anyway it came out looking halfway decent. For the attachment of this harness to the upper control arm and the frame, I 86th'd the fasteners that came with it and installed ones that I picked up off of the same harnesses during a recent salvage yard run. Worked well I thought. In the end, the only bit of loom that I didn't cover with electrical tape was OEM loom from the old harness that I removed to install this new one. Hah! Even that got just a tad of tape, although it wasn't necessary. 'Did it anyway.

Alright so that done, I proceeded with the preparation of the actual brakes. First was the unpacking, brakekleen-ing and installation of the new "police package" front rotors:


Then on went the calipers:


And with that fellas, we have crossed a bit of a milestone here: we now have a rolling chassis!


That is great news. Being able to move it around again will be a good benefit during the upcoming work. And that is where I had to leave things for the night. I need a new driver's side brake line and other misc parts, so I plan on heading out to a salvage yard tomorrow if all goes to plan. TBD.

Hope all is well!


Edited by av8or1 (04/24/21 12:15 AM)
_________________________
2010 CVPI (Former TEXAS Highway Patrol vehicle) POTM April 2020 double thumbs
2006 LX Sport air ride delete (2)
2006 F450 SD 6.0L PSD CC LWB flatbed 4x4
1985 Mazda RX7 GSL-SE
1970 Plymouth Road Runner A383 pistol grip tick-tock buckets

Top
#4106190 - 04/24/21 06:36 AM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: av8or1]
Old_Guy_Stu Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 2160
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Progress! Nice and clean, too.

Next time I do a thermostat, I may have to borrow your little guy's small hands.
_________________________

1988 CVLX Formal Roof (Love Boat) POTM July 2019 & Aug 2020, 55K
E-code lights w/ relays, LEDs w/ switchbacks, 15x8 Ansen slots w/ 255/60 BFG's, Kenwood stereo, various hacks.
1988 CVLX (Destroyer) 1998-2001 driven to death 202K
1988 Squire (Chris Craft) 1996-1998 junkyard rescue driven to death 199K

Top
#4106384 - 04/26/21 12:52 AM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: av8or1]
av8or1 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 1423
Loc: TX
Not too much to report from this weekend's activity, but some developments may be of slight interest. And so this is the latest. I did find time to get to a salvage yard yesterday. That was to-the-good. I had the driver's side front brake line cut-n-zipped off within a few minutes. And it was that particular component that I primarily came to retrieve, so in essence I was done at that point. However that would have been a long way to travel for that alone. I had time remaining prior to needing to return to the homestead and with that time I went on the hunt to see what could be had. I happened along this 2006 CVPI:


Since the engine installation and final work is just around the corner, I decided that I was a-gonna get the oil filter adapter *with* the oil cooler from this Panther. Same year model and so it was a good candidate. Most of the ones I've seen in previous CVPIs at the various yards were oily messes; this one however was clean. No leaks. Thus I wasn't leaving without it. And so I set about doing just that. There is a fair bit of removal that you must perform just to get to this critter. This 2006 CVPI didn't help much in that it was relatively new to the yard and hadn't really been touched yet. Thus everything was in its proper place from the air cleaner, MAF, ABS/HCU, inner fender, just everything. No problem. With a little time and elbow grease I had removed all of that stuff and then some. That effort bore fruit when I climbed under the vehicle with a 13 mm socket (the size of the bolt heads that secure the adapter to the block) and my impact. With the removal of all of the aforementioned stuff-n-stuff, I zipped off 3 of the 4 adapter bolts rather easily. This is what you will (or at least can) see at that point:


That fourth bolt though ... that is the one that is difficult to access. I didn't bother to test the waters in some effort to see how little I could remove and yet still pop out this adapter. Nope, I went about it in the opposite direction: I removed anything in its ballpark, to include the power steering rack, pump and pulley. Even the oil pressure switch. All of which I'd like to make clear were in great shape. There were no leaks and no signs of abuse. I was a tad surprised by that observation, as most CVPIs that I see come into the yard are as I stated earlier just a complete-n-total oily mess in this area. Granted, I managed to get a fair amount of schmutz on those components when I undid everything; however because they were initially so clean, I ended up bringing both the pump/pulley and the rack home:


Again, the greasy/oily stuff here was a biproduct of removal. While I had some time available, I didn't have so much of it that I could be bothered with the avoidance of such dirty-ness. In case I haven't announced this already, in regard to the rack-n-pinion that I had planned to reinstall on Ol' Blue ... well I was thinking that I would source a remanned steering rack ('cause the dealership told me that you can't buy new OEM racks any longer), but I dunno fellas. I may just take the best bits-n-pieces from the two racks that I have, build one really good-but-used rack and run that. I haven't looked to see if rebuild kits for these critters still exist. Anyone know? I may take a quick look-see after I finish this post. TBD. I digress. So here is the oil filter adapter *with* oil cooler after I ran it through the parts washer:


If you own or have ever owned a CVPI you are likely familiar with these. I attempted to see if they could be purchased online, but only found them on dealership websites and the price was over $300. Gheez, no thanks. I'll pull my own for that much. As an interesting side note, I discovered that Ford changed the style of oil cooler that it put on the CVPIs in 2009. They switched from this adapter-with-hoses-that-run-to-a-housing-in-the-cooling-system's-return-hose configuration to a sandwich style cooler. The latter is sandwiched in-between the oil filter adapter and the oil filter. Interesting. Although I may have discussed this already, my plan with the oil cooling business for Ol' Blue is to fabricate a custom system, though with off-the-shelf components. I plan to introduce an additional cooler, much like the power steering one as the worker-bee of this system. I'll locate this new cooler in front of the radiator (possibly, dunno yet) and have custom hoses made for it. Hoses that are akin to the ones that the pre-2009 CVPIs had installed in them. 'Cept the ones for Ol' Blue will need to be longer (of course) and likely have different fittings on the cooler end. There is a shop in the area that will make custom hydraulic hoses for you in whatever configuration and length you specify. And yes, I realize that you don't need to do this, but like many things with this build, I'm here, I've been down this road in the past, so why not? laugh

Alright so all of the above is what I would consider "the good news." Now for the other half. I have just a touch of that to convey today, which I will do in an effort to retain a sense of "being grounded" to the thread. As I have done in the past. I mean things go South in any build. You do what you can to prevent that, but it happens. As I would discover today I made a boo-boo and one it-happens also came my way with it. Not a major ouchie-boo-boo, but still ... it is in regard to the motor mounts. I seem to recall discussing those at some point way-way-way-back in this thread. Dunno if that is accurate or not, but anyway. My mistake with the mounts was that I either didn't take a close-enough look at them upon removal or else I forgot to do something about what I saw. Either way, one of them has some separation in the bushing (rubber) and shouldn't be re-used. The other is in good condition. I don't see the sense in running one new and one old one, so I'm on the hunt for two new motor mounts. I let the lil 'un add the old ones to his scrap-metal pile. Thus they are already dust. laugh

I found a few offerings online, but I dunno fellas. 'Just not as pleased with what I found as I thought I would be. I may call the dealership to determine what they can offer tomorrow, then take it from there. Regardless I need to get a set on-site ASAP. Note that for whatever reason, I had it in my cabbage-upstairs that the mounts were in reusable shape. Operating on that notion, I pushed the gantry into position and rolled out the engine; fully prepared to plop it onto the crossmember today:


That is no easy feat to do by yourself, even with the thing being on tires like it is. Mostly because it's slightly uphill towards the workshop, but I digress. That would need to be done regardless and I was seeking a workout, so no complaints. Just sayin'. Anyway the point being that a better approach would have been to pull the mounts out of their frozen food baggies and examine them *prior* to doing all of that. laugh

Finally, the it-happens half of the not-so-good. Well, unfortunately one of the aforementioned frozen food baggies in which I had placed the mounts developed a hole that I was unaware of. And with that development, two of the three bolts for the driver's side mount grew legs:


And cannot be found. laugh

So there's another trip to the salvage yard in the near future for yours truly. Oh well. I may pair it with a visit to the tranny guy, who lives kinda-sorta near one of the yards. I say that because I've also decided to switch horses in regard to the driveshaft. You might recall the one I yanked out of Ol' Blue forever-n-ever ago:


Well during the time away from the forum last summer, I did visit a salvage yard once. While there I snatched an aluminum drive shaft from a 2007 CVPI. I decided that I'd "upgrade" the rusty, crusty, dusty steel one to the CVPI variant. And sure, I realize that there isn't a ton of performance to be gained by so doing. However after reading the BOK article regarding the subject by BigNSlow (thank you BigNSlow for that, BTW, I appreciate the effort you expended) I decided that the process would pose just enough of a challenge that it would be interesting to work on that "upgrade". It's not that much of a challenge really, mind you, but ... well I dunno it was just something that I decided I wanted to do. And so I'm gonna. I had planned on replacing the clips on the yoke anyway, so why not? Again, I'm here! laugh

So. Back to the tranny guy. I called him yesterday to see if he had any police transmission tail cones, as those are slightly longer than the civilian ones. You need to make this switch in order to have a decent contact area between the yoke and the output shaft. You also need to swap in the civilian yoke, as it has longer splines than the police variant. Finally, in order to achieve maximum contact area, a pinion spacer is recommended. I dunno where my implementation is a-gonna end up, frankly speaking. However depending on what the tranny guy has lying around, that'll at least provide some direction regarding what I need to source first WRT this side-build if you will. I'd rather just purchase a tail cone from him than roll around under a CVPI at a salvage yard, removing the drive shaft and then the tail cone. Though that seems probable, so I have it on the radar for the next trip. Hopefully the tranny guy will preempt. TBD.

I digress. Gonna stop rambling now. Hope all is well!

EDIT/UPDATE: Shortly after posting, I found a rack-n-pinion rebuild kit online. Relatively expensive to boot. Since the plan is to utilize the best components from each respective rack in order to build a "really good" one, I decided to just rebuild the whole thing while I'm there. Why not?


Edited by av8or1 (04/26/21 01:49 AM)
_________________________
2010 CVPI (Former TEXAS Highway Patrol vehicle) POTM April 2020 double thumbs
2006 LX Sport air ride delete (2)
2006 F450 SD 6.0L PSD CC LWB flatbed 4x4
1985 Mazda RX7 GSL-SE
1970 Plymouth Road Runner A383 pistol grip tick-tock buckets

Top
#4106424 - 04/26/21 02:38 PM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: av8or1]
av8or1 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 1423
Loc: TX
Alright, a quick update. Regarding the motor mounts. One dealership's parts dept told me that they were on backorder and it was unknown when they could be ordered. Another dealership's part dept told me that I could purchase the pax side engine mount and the tranny mount and have them in 3 days. However the driver's side engine mount was on backorder with "no release date." If you summed the cost of the three OEM mounts you came up with approximately $250. I found a decent set of aftermarket mounts (all 3) for $125 on Ebay. Mostly for reasons of availability, I've decided to give these aftermarket offerings a punt. We'll see what happens...

Then there is the matter of the tranny and the driveshaft conversion. For whatever reason I find this to be an interesting problem. I tend to work on those more than the routine stuff, if you haven't noticed. That is, it's difficult for me to get motivated to change the brake pads; that's something I'd rather just push off on a shop. But install fog lights or cornering lights when those didn't previously exist, or a moon roof ... that will garner my interest. laugh

Anyway the tranny guy told me that he had a CVPI tail cone, no problem. However he didn't recommend installing it without the accompanying CVPI output shaft. To speak openly I am not a fan of pinion spacers in the abstract. And so the current thought is to just have the tranny guy install the longer output shaft. If I go that route, I wouldn't need to do anything WRT the driveshaft itself. 'Just install the aluminum one. I'd still replace the clips/u-joint regardless. And I dunno. In looking at the diagrams from BigNSlow it would appear that you could switch over the yoke from the civilian tranny, which has longer splines, and run that, even with the longer output shaft. That would yield a longer contact area than any other configuration. Meh, I don't know that there is much benefit to that really. 'Just rambling on at this point... I also inquired regarding a J-mod to this transmission. He didn't recognize the term but when I explained it to him he understood the objective. So I dunno, depending on how much he quotes me I may have that done too while he has the transmission. TBD.

That's the latest-n-greatest.
_________________________
2010 CVPI (Former TEXAS Highway Patrol vehicle) POTM April 2020 double thumbs
2006 LX Sport air ride delete (2)
2006 F450 SD 6.0L PSD CC LWB flatbed 4x4
1985 Mazda RX7 GSL-SE
1970 Plymouth Road Runner A383 pistol grip tick-tock buckets

Top
#4106426 - 04/26/21 03:13 PM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: av8or1]
TheCableGuy Offline
Climber

Registered: 04/08/19
Posts: 998
Loc: Far Northwest AZ
Question: Why not just get the engine and trans mount off RockAuto? I paid no more than $50 for both of my mounts(only ended up replacing 1 of those).
_________________________
2010 P7B 150K. 11K hours. 3.27, RKE, Cruise, Ported stock plenum, JMod, ADTR sway bar, KYB rear shocks.
2011 Sierra 1500 155K, too many mods to list. (RIP 01-05-2019)
2001 Durango R/T 5.9. 230K. SOLD 5-1-19

I’m a classical textbook over-thinker.


Top
#4106720 - 04/29/21 12:43 AM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: TheCableGuy]
av8or1 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 1423
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By TheCableGuy
Question: Why not just get the engine and trans mount off RockAuto? I paid no more than $50 for both of my mounts(only ended up replacing 1 of those).

Good call, thank you for the feedback. How long ago did you do that? Did you experience the usual symptoms which led you to take a look at them and then replace the one?

Progress this week. I have the oil cooler/filter adapter painted:


And am allowing it to dry prior to installing it on the engine. Good.

Ok let's talk fuel for a bit. One of the (way-way-too-many) issues with Ol' Blue was the somewhat faint odor of fuel in the cabin. This combined with the waft of Don Juan type cologne made the experience of sitting in the bloomin' thing an challenging endeavor. I digress. In regard to the fuel odor though I couldn't pinpoint the source; however it seemed to be stemming from the front of the vehicle. Thus just prior to pulling the engine I took a closer look (with both the eyes and nose). I determined that there was a small leak at the point in the fuel line where the rubber-ish sleeve surrounds the hard fuel line. This occurs on the pax side of the engine in the bay, just prior to the point at which the line runs to the rail. Basically, it's the point at which the hard line transitions to a flexible one. I took a not-so-good picture to give you a rough idea of the location of the leak:


That seemed like an odd place for a leak to develop, but there it was. You could put your finger on it and feel that it was wet. If you then gave it the "sniff test", you'd recognize that it was fuel. Not water or other liquid. And so there it was. Why I couldn't tell you, but there it was. Now what to do about it?

Hmmmmmmm....

Before I go any further however I am complled to explain the reason why this sleeve is so extended (ergo "long") as you see in the picture. Normally it is about 3" or 4" in length. The reason it's much longer than that on this particular fuel line is because, after discovering the problem, I was none-too-happy and began removing the engine with the flexible fuel line still attached. The thought was that it'd break apart on its own. Yeah ok, I didn't actually believe that but I was displeased enough to "let it have it" for a minute or two. This streched the sleeve quite a bit. Of course the sleeve didn't actually come apart, as we all would suspect. And so I needed to separate it manually. I was fine with that, ready to unleash a little more grief. To do that I busted the reciprocating saw out of the tool box and cut the hard fuel line just South of this juncture. Then proceeded with the engine removal. Not one of my best moments, but after all of the kruft I was seeing, I gotta admit it felt good to see that sleeve s-t-r-e-t-c-h itself just a tad. laugh Little did I know at the time of course just how awful the discovery-of-crap would become.

Back to the fuel thing. Ok so the rough plan was to bring that same reciprocating saw to a salvage yard to cut off the fuel line from a donor. However I'd make the cut such that the piece I'd bring home was just-a-smidge longer than what I hacked off when I pulled the engine. Give yourself a little "to play with" dontchaknow. And several salvage yard trips ago (from present day) I did just that. The repair plan was to flare each end of the hard line and join them with an A-N fitting. In my experience this works just fine, provided that you make the flares properly and secure the A-N fitting well. And then time passed. And more time. With that passage, I grew less-n-less fond of this plan. Sure, it'd work, but heck I have the friggin' body off of the frame. I mean I *could* do better than that now that I am here, right?

Well I called a few dealerships. They all spewed out the same story: the part is on backorder, but could be had within a month or two. And it would cost North os $200. Uuuuugggghhhhh. You gotta be kidding me! Uh no. So what to do fellas? If you weren't aware, the fuel line in your Panther runs from a flexible tube at the tank to a hard line that lives on top of the rear "crossmember". That hard line then runs to the pax side of that "crossmember", down the frame rail and to the fuel filter, which lives on the inner side of the frame approximately underneath the pax side rear seat. From the filter, the hard line progresses along the pax inner side of the frame, above the tranny crossmember and then up along the frame rail near the firewall. At that point is the last (or forward-most) bolt-on-a-bracket that holds the hard line to the frame. The hard line continues to the aforementioned juncture at which it becomes a flexible line again. It connects to the fuel rail on the engine via a Ford quick connect (and a clip). So with that description in mind, you can likely imagine that removing such a critter from a donor car is a little more involved than merely unthreading those bolts-on-a-bracket and fishing it out. Uh no. That won't work. To remove it, you need to raise the body off of the frame. Perhaps not remove it entirely, but lift it.

That is not a trivial endeavor to perform solo at a salvage yard. 'Seems like most every trip I make sees the cranes that they have on-site in use by someone else, removing an engine from a Corolla or whatever else. So. What to do? Stick with the plan? Nah. I can do better. Surely. So I called the retired fella from whom I purchased The 5-O. He retains a stable of CVPIs and I have gotten lots of parts from him over the years. Perhaps I can get one from him; he has tractors and those can obviously remove the body with ease. So ... I prepared for the trip by removing the fuel line from Ol' Blue. The son and I drove out to his property last night. I showed him what I was after. He exhaled rather deeply, then admitted that he'd never removed the body from the frame. "No problem" I replied. "I can do that, you just provide the muscle with a tractor." He agreed. I brought my tools and had the 7-per-side frame bolts zipped out in no time. The candidate was a 2010 CVPI, former TEXAS highway patrol vehicle. Soon enough the body was off; I crawled around again and removed the 6 or 7 bolts that hold the fuel line to the frame and then pulled the line out. He set the body back and just like that, the task was complete. Wooo-hoooo! I had a complete fuel line from tank to rail, no leaks and I didn't spend > $200! double thumbs

As an aside, you might recall that I pulled the fuel tank when I removed the body from the frame a short while ago. I did that "for completion" you might say. I mean sure, I believe that I found the source of the smell, but hey, let's be certain of that. And so out the tank came for the purpose of receiving a thorough inspection. And as it so-happens, the tank was in good shape. So that much is to-the-good. 'Course now I will have the opportunity of sorting through the wiring once I mate the tank back to the body. Oh well, it's an opportunity, right? laugh I digress.

Here are the two fuel lines for comparison:


The one from Ol' Blue is on the right. The line from the 2010 CVPI is on the left. I make mention of the year and model difference because I noticed something almost immediately after we had removed the line: the rear end of these fuel lines differ. You can readily see the difference in the following picture:


Ol' Blue = 1. 2010 CVPI = 2. This had me scratching my head. Why were these lines different? Because Ol' Blue was an LX and the 2010 was a CVPI? Meh. Was it simply due to the year differential? Meh. Was it possibly because Ol' Blue originally had the air suspension in the rear and thus the fuel line needed to be routed in a slightly different manner? Eh. Seemed more probable than the first two but ... I dunno. I did a little research late last night but couldn't find a conclusive answer. If anyone knows, chime in. I'm curious. To discover if this difference in routing amounted to much, I put both hard lines on the frame of Ol' Blue for comparison. As it turns out, the original one (2006 LX Sport) runs along the front of the rear "crossmember", then aft, then back along back of that rear "crossmember" towards the pax side. In contrast, the hard line from the 2010 CVPI merely runs to the aft side of the rear "crossmember" and then across towards the driver's side. Ergo no "u-turn" involved with it. Interestingly they both terminate at roughly the same point, which is an opening in that rear "crossmember", through which the flexible line is fed so that it can be attached to the fuel pump. Thus:


Huh, interesting. Well with that development we're good since we will run springs in the rear instead of the original air suspension. And so in the final analysis, yes, I will clean, scrub, clean and paint this hard fuel line, then install and run it on Ol' Blue. The previous one will be scrapped, as will the plan for the flaring and the A-N fitting. I much prefer this solution. Granted, at the time I developed and began executing that plan I did not have full-body-removal on my radar. However since I'm here, by all means, let's implement the best approach possible. And for me/us, it is the full replacement of the hard fuel line.

Also interesting was what I found on the other end of this line. It appears that the canister purge solenoid hard-line-to-flex-line juncture is reversed between the two configurations. Thus:


And so that will require some attention once I put re-marry the body to the frame. Did the location of the canister purge solenoid change between 2006 and 2010? Dunno, but this will be at the top of the list when the body is reinstated. TBD.

Ok so enough fuel talk for now.

Moving on, the Ebay-sourced engine and transmission mounts arrived today. And after an hour of scrounging around in the workshop, I found the two missing bolts too! The mounts were in good condition:


I had the engine mounts installed on the block in short order. 52 ft-lbs is the torque value IIRC. With that result, today was a-gonna be the day that I managed to put the heart of Ol' Blue back into position. So up on the gantry chain it went:


And then back onto the crossmember:


So it's in fellas! It's in! laugh

I gotta tell ya too ... what with the gantry (no engine lift getting in the way of everything) and the body having been removed from the frame, this was by far the *easiest* engine installation I have ever completed! biggrin I realize that such an assertion is more of a "duh" than anything else. That said, it was *such* folly that I spent more time crawling underneath the frame to torque the mount nuts than I did installing the engine itself! That torque value is 66 ft-lbs, BTW.

Anyway. I had to end things there for the night, as family duties beckoned. We're supposed to receive rain tonght; several days of it in fact. I dunno what I can get done during that time but I'll find something!

Hope all is well!


Edited by av8or1 (04/29/21 01:10 AM)
_________________________
2010 CVPI (Former TEXAS Highway Patrol vehicle) POTM April 2020 double thumbs
2006 LX Sport air ride delete (2)
2006 F450 SD 6.0L PSD CC LWB flatbed 4x4
1985 Mazda RX7 GSL-SE
1970 Plymouth Road Runner A383 pistol grip tick-tock buckets

Top
#4106742 - 04/29/21 10:18 AM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: av8or1]
TheCableGuy Offline
Climber

Registered: 04/08/19
Posts: 998
Loc: Far Northwest AZ
I replaced the drivers side because it was literally crumbling. I had the symptoms of a very hard ‘lurch” when shifting into drive or reverse. Intermittent clunk when it would down shift. Replacing the mount without an engine hoist was something fun. Jack under the oil pan made it work, barely, but it worked. All of those issues listed above are gone.
_________________________
2010 P7B 150K. 11K hours. 3.27, RKE, Cruise, Ported stock plenum, JMod, ADTR sway bar, KYB rear shocks.
2011 Sierra 1500 155K, too many mods to list. (RIP 01-05-2019)
2001 Durango R/T 5.9. 230K. SOLD 5-1-19

I’m a classical textbook over-thinker.


Top
#4106848 - 04/30/21 09:33 AM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: av8or1]
Packman Offline
Climber

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 840
Loc: Joisey
I think if I were to do a Panther (box) engine swap again; I would endeavor to raise the body before dropping the engine and trans in place. Then slowly lower the body to see what hits (if swapping anything larger than stock) what. I'd still have a functioning wiper motor if I had done that.
_________________________
Bop Your head and stomp your feet!
Droppin' it nicely, droppin' it neat!

Top
#4107124 - 05/01/21 12:57 PM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: av8or1]
av8or1 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 1423
Loc: TX
TheCableGuy- All's well that ends well. Good to hear that you were able to install the mount however you went about so doing. And that it resolved your issue.

Packman- Yeah, if you are able to lift the body when doing this sort of thing that approach definitely has my thumbs up! laugh Hope you sorted out the wiper motor ... is there a humorous story behind how that was damaged? lol

Alright fellas, this post is relatively short. Due to the poor weather that we've been experiencing, I don't have much to offer. I did manage to squeeze in a refurbishing of the new fuel lines from the 2010 CVPI. Gave those the usual treatment of cleaning and scrubbing:


And then paint:


I have a bit of Navy Blue outstanding and so I used that to paint the already-blue-but-faded-blue plastic flexible hose covering at the rear of the lines.

I am currently working on the power steering rack rebuild. However due to the type of nut that Ford installs at the bottom of the pinion, I was forced to search for a special tool to remove it. I eventually found one that is used on motorcycle clutches; TBD if it will work. 'Supposed to arrive this afternoon so we'll see. I'll post when I have more regarding the rebuild.

That said, I am posting now as part of an effort to attempt to do a better job of staying ahead of the power curve WRT sourcing parts in this build. I've found myself waiting on various parts to arrive more times than I care to remember. And so I have ordered a few things, but some are outstanding. I see a number of options and have read a few posts but would like to inquire with you regarding parts options.

First is the fuel pump. I have a filter on the way, I went with Motorcraft. $12 on Amazon, free shipping, done. However the pumps. Yikes. I found a couple of possibles on carparts.com. However the one flex fuel pump that they have listed shows that it is compatible for a 2006-2008 Crown Victoria LX but not the LX Sport. Wha-? Insofar as I am aware there is no diff in the fuel systems between the two. Is anyone aware of a diff that I should know about? I inquired with their website and was told that it indeed does NOT fit an LX Sport. I was then referred to a different pump that does fit an LX Spot, but is shown to be gas and not flex fuel. Wha-? They told me that you could run this gas one in a flex fuel system. Uh yeah, but ... why the diff? Why are you recommending a different pump for the Sport versus the LX? I dunno fellas, it didn't make much sense.

Then there is the Walbro GSS340. BigNSlow has a thread in the BOK regarding the installation of this pump. He says that it is "quite loud". Given the use case scenario for Ol' Blue (the wife-eee driving it primarily) I don't know that this is a good fit. Depending on how loud we're talking about WRT this option. I have little doubt that she would not be a fan of a high performance pump whaling away in the rear of the vehicle. laugh

So. Any recommendations?

Next are the tie rods. Since I am rebuilding the thing, I decided to go-new with the entire bit ... I purchased a seal kit and am a-gonna replace both the inners and outers. I found these on 1AAuto:

1AAuto tie rod replacement option

However the price seems a bit cheap for all 4 components. So does anyone have recommendations here?

Thanks in advance!


Edited by av8or1 (05/01/21 12:58 PM)
_________________________
2010 CVPI (Former TEXAS Highway Patrol vehicle) POTM April 2020 double thumbs
2006 LX Sport air ride delete (2)
2006 F450 SD 6.0L PSD CC LWB flatbed 4x4
1985 Mazda RX7 GSL-SE
1970 Plymouth Road Runner A383 pistol grip tick-tock buckets

Top
#4107158 - 05/01/21 09:48 PM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: av8or1]
Old_Guy_Stu Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 2160
Loc: Cleveland, OH
FWIW, I've had good luck with Spectra for fuel system parts. They're an OEM supplier. Don't know if they make your specific pump, but it seems likely.
_________________________

1988 CVLX Formal Roof (Love Boat) POTM July 2019 & Aug 2020, 55K
E-code lights w/ relays, LEDs w/ switchbacks, 15x8 Ansen slots w/ 255/60 BFG's, Kenwood stereo, various hacks.
1988 CVLX (Destroyer) 1998-2001 driven to death 202K
1988 Squire (Chris Craft) 1996-1998 junkyard rescue driven to death 199K

Top
#4107352 - 05/03/21 03:49 PM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: av8or1]
Packman Offline
Climber

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 840
Loc: Joisey
Not so much "how" the wiper motor got damaged; but "why" it got damaged. Long story short; I made an agreement with my Mom 15 years ago to hot rod her car a little (another story in and of itself); which inevitably lead to swapping an engine in there. First idea was building a Lightning engine; which my Dad shot down right away; and said keep it simple and just rebuild the lopo. Few years later, I bring F4TE 5.8L home from the junkyard. "Friends" convinced me to rebuild it with good parts; which I bought years before pulling the pretty-much dead lopo out of the car. IMO, the 2 parts that killed the wiper motor are the aftermarket heads and the Ford Racing valve covers for carb'd engines. When it came time to sling the new engine in; it laid up against the wiper motor and broke the mounts off of the wiper motor body (aluminum). Dad hears a little commotion and comes out to see what's going on. Only to find the 5.8L back in the garage; and back in his way. Mind you; my Dad had a major stroke in 2010; so his memory is shot. So he asked why a shined up lopo (5.0L) wouldn't just drop in. I told him why (5.8L now) and his memory suddenly came back. "I thought I told you......" Same speech I got from him when I was a hard-headed kid. Now my Mom comes out to see what the commotion is about. When she hears the lecture; she tells him that it's her engine and she likes it. And she doesn't plan on driving in the rain with that car anyways. That's where we are with that. I did get the engine and trans in eventually; had to cut a slot into the wiper motor box to fit the valve covers. Maybe one day, I will figure out what to do about the wipers. LOL


Edited by Packman (05/03/21 03:54 PM)
_________________________
Bop Your head and stomp your feet!
Droppin' it nicely, droppin' it neat!

Top
#4107550 - 05/04/21 05:44 PM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: av8or1]
av8or1 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 1423
Loc: TX
Stu- Alright thank you for the feedback. Fuel pump remains TBD. Kinda leaning towards the Walbro unit and accepting the risk of its loudness being an issue. I plan on doing a fair amount of insulating, so ... anyway I have other issues to contend with at present.

Packman- Interesting story. Hope you sort the wiper motor thing out oneday.

So fellas I am posting in the middle of the afternoon for a reason. You might recall that my plan was to swap in a "police" tailcone and output shaft on my existing, already-rebuilt transmission. The purpose of which was to be able to run an aluminum drive shaft. Last Friday I managed to meet with the fella who rebuilt it and hand it off to him with instructions. And now bunk. He sent me a text today telling me that the tailcone and output shaft that are on my transmission are the same length as the 4 CVPI tailcones and output shafts that he has on-hand. Wha-? He stated further that he called a dealership and a transmission tech service, both of which hadn't heard of a difference between the "police" and civilian transmission tailcones and output shafts. Granted that is only two data points, but I dunno ... it was enough to give me pause. I have no reason to doubt the BOK article, so there had to be an explanation. To find one I began digging. To do that I revisited the work at the outset of the project.

As shown just a couple of posts ago, I pulled a steel shaft out of Ol' Blue:


That said, I have always had reservations regarding this transmission, as I have expressed in the past. You might recall this picture:


I took it when I first removed the drivetrain. Those marks are the marks of salvage yards in my experience. There is no way of knowing that for certain obviously but it sure has that resemblence. With that in mind, the possibility that someone replaced the original transmission with one from a CVPI (a "police" transmission) and then simply reinstalled the steel drive shaft is one explanation. In fact it is the only plausible one that I am able to conjure up actually.

And so I have a few questions for the more experienced Panther types:

1) Is it possible to run a steel drive shaft with a "police" transmission (which has the longer tailcone and output shaft)?
2) Have you seen that done in the past?
3) Is this a plausible explanation?
4) How much longer is the "police" tailcone and output shaft than the civilian counterparts anyway? 1"? 3"?

To speak openly I have had my doubts regarding whether or not this was a civilian transmission for a while now. After reading the BOK article that states that there is a difference, I recall looking at this one and thinking to myself that if the "police" transmission has a longer one, then it must appear to be *really* long because the one that was on the transmission that I pulled from Ol' Blue was plenty long as it was.

The plan at this point is to head to a salvage yard this weekend, one that has both CVPIs and civilian models on hand. Then do a comparison of the lengths of the transmission tailcones. The one on Ol' Blue was approximately 10.5", so we'll see what I can discover. TBD.

Minor progress since the last update. The filter arrived, part number:


I removed the bracket, cleaned and painted all of it (including the portion of the frame that was buried underneath the bracket) and then reinstalled:


I've since began the process of installing the fuel line and have connected that to this filter. However, do you recall the slightly different path that the original fuel line from Ol' Blue took versus the path that the fuel line from the 2010 CVPI takes? Well as it turns out, the latter - once installed - will contact the rear brake line that runs to the pax rear wheel. I didn't like seeing that, so I went to take a look at The 5-O. The fuel line and rear brake line do indeed contact each other in that area; it was that way on The 5-O too. I must confess to preferring the fuel line that Ol' Blue had, where the routing took it around the front side of the rear "crossmember" and then back to the opening for the fuel tank. I don't like this collision-in-the-rear thing. Not sure why Ford did that, but they obviously didn't consider it an issue. Thus I'll live with it. I'll take a few pictures of this and post them next time.

And speaking of that rear brake line ... gheez. This contact issue made me take a closer look at it. And I noticed an issue with the brake line right at the point where it contacts the fuel line. You see, the rear brake line runs along the backside of this rear "crossmember" and is held in place by clips. This line is a hard brake line, obviously. However there is a union on each side of the rear "crossmember" where this section of line connects. That's all to-the-good. The point being that the section of line that runs along the backside is sectioned off and is thus its own entity. Bringing the discussion back 'round to the problem with the brake line. Well, I noticed that it has a kink in it. A somewhat pronounced kink. Sigh. I musta missed it somehow, but then again I don't recall being "on the hunt" for that kind of damage because you so rarely see it. How in the heck did that happen anyway? The body removal was smooth, there was no contact between it and the frame as the gantry lifted it. Eh I dunno, but it's there. The silver lining is that this section of line being its own entity is convenient for me because I can simply undo the line at the two unions and replace it. I plan on heading back out to the fella who sold me The 5-O in the next couple of days to pick that off of the 2010 CVPI donor.

I digress. I'll post pictures in upcoming updates. Any feedback regarding the tranny thing is appreciated.


Edited by av8or1 (05/04/21 06:03 PM)
_________________________
2010 CVPI (Former TEXAS Highway Patrol vehicle) POTM April 2020 double thumbs
2006 LX Sport air ride delete (2)
2006 F450 SD 6.0L PSD CC LWB flatbed 4x4
1985 Mazda RX7 GSL-SE
1970 Plymouth Road Runner A383 pistol grip tick-tock buckets

Top
#4107606 - Yesterday at 12:10 AM Re: Jerry's Crown Victorias [Re: av8or1]
av8or1 Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 1423
Loc: TX
Alright, quick update. I found reference online regarding the lengths of the transmission tailcone variants for the AOD, AOD/E, 4R70W/E and 4R75W/E. Apparently on all of those models there was a short and a long tailcone. The short one measured 10 1/4" while the longer was 11 1/4". Thus it's only a 1" difference.

I recall measuring the tailcone on the tranny that came out of Ol' Blue. It appeared to be approximately 10.5", but I didn't remove it from the trans body. Thus I was kinda eyeballing it. Thus I'd have to say that this tranny does indeed have the "civilian" tailcone and output shaft on it. So I dunno ... perhaps the transmission fella ... well I dunno and won't speculate. I texted him with the information. The other fella who sold me The 5-O wasn't available tonight so I'll head out there tomorrow for the brake line. He has a couple of 2011 transmissions sitting around. He told me that those were 11 1/4". That's kinda confirmation of the information that I found online earlier. Those transmissions that he has are just cores, so I may buy one for a few bucks in order to swap in the longer output shaft and tailcone. With the difference being only 1" I don't see why you couldn't do that on the late-2005 transmission that I found in Ol' Blue.

Feedback welcomed.

Thanks!
Jerry
_________________________
2010 CVPI (Former TEXAS Highway Patrol vehicle) POTM April 2020 double thumbs
2006 LX Sport air ride delete (2)
2006 F450 SD 6.0L PSD CC LWB flatbed 4x4
1985 Mazda RX7 GSL-SE
1970 Plymouth Road Runner A383 pistol grip tick-tock buckets

Top
Page 95 of 96 < 1 2 93 94 95 96 >

Moderator:  BigMerc96 
Who's Online
2 registered (bobb, 1 invisible), 73 Guests and 226 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
CrystalPistol 183
bluejay_32 176
Old_Guy_Stu 105
Ponyguy 59
Dmblanch 55
a_d_a_m 53
Moby_Vic 53
JeffBoudah 50
DudeAbides 47
Bangster 44
Member Spotlight
Member Since: 05/23/15
Posts: 56





Copyright 2000-2015 by Crownvic.net and Steve Spaulding. All Rights Reserved.
The photographs, graphics and data contained in this Web site are the properties of the contributors, or Crownvic.net and may not be used without expressed written consent.
Crownvic.net is not affiliated with the Ford motor company.

Happily consuming the fuel saved by Prius owners!