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#4108552 - 05/11/21 02:16 AM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Dmblanch]
Dmblanch Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/19
Posts: 293
Loc: Utah
I've now stripped the entire roof and have ground off about half of the hundreds of roof pimples. They range in size from that of poppy seed to the size of a silver dollar. Oddly, they seem to have been laid down in three rough "stripes" running from windshield to rear glass, with very few spots on the six inches of each side of the car and relatively few on the front and back edges.

The three "stripes" of irregular splotches are about eight inches wide, separated by about four inch wide stripes of sparser splotching. Because I can see the three stripes when I look down the length of the car, I'm convinced that the substance (whatever it is) had to be applied mechanically to the roof panel before priming and probably before the hood and trunk panels were installed. I still don't know what it is.

As I mentioned, disc sanding doesn't take off the splotches very well, no matter the grit used. Each one has to be individually ground off either by dremel or by a reciprocating multi-tool sander (which seems to work the best). Most of the smaller splotches come right off down to bare metal in a smooth, even process. Sometimes they come off in chunks that fly off, just like you might expect if they were epoxy. And they stink of burning plastic when sanded.

However, some the larger chunks are very stubborn and when then finally come off they seem to have small pockmarks of corrosion that have etched down into the metal at their cores. The smaller splotches have no such pockmarks. These larger splotches are sometimes tinged reddish-brown around their outer edges, but for the most part they are black and decidedly not ferro-oxide in appearance.

Unquestionably I'm going to have to etch the whole thing with phosphoric acid Prep-all, but applying it in concentrated form (such as with Naval Jelly) to the splotches does nothing.
_________________________
1) 2002 White P71 - UT Training vehicle, 89K miles, sold. 2) 2003 B&W P71 - UT Patrol car, 74K miles, sold. 3) 2005 White P71 - WA Fire Chief vehicle, 54K miles, sold.
4) 2011 Black P7B - CA Sheriff vehicle, 79K miles, sold. 5) 2008 White P71 - Idaho sheriff vehicle, 95k miles, outfitted as movie prop rental. 6) 2005 White P71 - UT University police, 74k miles, sold.
7) 2004 Silver P71 - UT Fire Dept., 104K miles, sold. 8) 2004 Toreador Red LX Sport - Want ad find, 111K. 9) 2010 White P7B SAP - UT Police, 106K, sold.
10) 2010 White P7B SAP - UT Police, 104K, sister to #9, sold. 11) 2005 White P71 - ID Police, 115k. 12) $500 2006 White P71 - UT Police beater.

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#4108728 - 05/12/21 09:56 AM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Dmblanch]
AlleyG Offline
Climber

Registered: 04/28/14
Posts: 541
Loc: Raleigh, NC
If it's coming off in chunks, then it must be some sort of leveling filler. You may have to bondo those spots (or the whole roof) to get the roof level. I wonder if all these cars have it?

Do you have a spot near the windshield, just right of center by chance? Our white CVPI has peeling paint in that spot, and I saw a pic of a T-Bird with rust on that spot. My old T-Bird had discolored paint in that spot. Weird.

Al
_________________________
2004 CVPI - 85k miles
1997 T-Bird LX - 85k miles
1994 Supra Turbo - 107k miles
Previous Fords:
1988 T-Bird, 1995 T-Bird, 1996 Cougar

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#4108736 - 05/12/21 11:18 AM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Dmblanch]
Dmblanch Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/19
Posts: 293
Loc: Utah
No, there is no such typical "peelformance white" bare spot on the front roof near the windshield as is seen in so many p71's of this age. And all the spots are smaller and more irregular than you would expect with intentionally applied filler. Whatever it is, they didn't intend to put it there.
_________________________
1) 2002 White P71 - UT Training vehicle, 89K miles, sold. 2) 2003 B&W P71 - UT Patrol car, 74K miles, sold. 3) 2005 White P71 - WA Fire Chief vehicle, 54K miles, sold.
4) 2011 Black P7B - CA Sheriff vehicle, 79K miles, sold. 5) 2008 White P71 - Idaho sheriff vehicle, 95k miles, outfitted as movie prop rental. 6) 2005 White P71 - UT University police, 74k miles, sold.
7) 2004 Silver P71 - UT Fire Dept., 104K miles, sold. 8) 2004 Toreador Red LX Sport - Want ad find, 111K. 9) 2010 White P7B SAP - UT Police, 106K, sold.
10) 2010 White P7B SAP - UT Police, 104K, sister to #9, sold. 11) 2005 White P71 - ID Police, 115k. 12) $500 2006 White P71 - UT Police beater.

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#4109684 - 05/19/21 03:07 PM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Dmblanch]
Dmblanch Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/19
Posts: 293
Loc: Utah
I was just out at a police boneyard looking over their surplus vehicles and lo, off in the distance, I spotted a charcoal grey metallic P71 with EXACTLY the same roof pimples that my Sport has. Spots everywhere on the roof but NONE on the trunk, hood, or pillars. The only difference was that this unit's roof pimples had mostly broken through the top clear coat and were rusty. Not big rusty patches, no peelformance areas, just hundreds of tiny circular pimples. Very few of my roof pimples had emerged through the clear coat.

So I popped the door open to see what year this unit was... and it was a 2004, just like my Sport. Coincidence or similar root cause?
_________________________
1) 2002 White P71 - UT Training vehicle, 89K miles, sold. 2) 2003 B&W P71 - UT Patrol car, 74K miles, sold. 3) 2005 White P71 - WA Fire Chief vehicle, 54K miles, sold.
4) 2011 Black P7B - CA Sheriff vehicle, 79K miles, sold. 5) 2008 White P71 - Idaho sheriff vehicle, 95k miles, outfitted as movie prop rental. 6) 2005 White P71 - UT University police, 74k miles, sold.
7) 2004 Silver P71 - UT Fire Dept., 104K miles, sold. 8) 2004 Toreador Red LX Sport - Want ad find, 111K. 9) 2010 White P7B SAP - UT Police, 106K, sold.
10) 2010 White P7B SAP - UT Police, 104K, sister to #9, sold. 11) 2005 White P71 - ID Police, 115k. 12) $500 2006 White P71 - UT Police beater.

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#4112212 - 06/11/21 08:21 AM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Dmblanch]
JC07661 Offline
n00b

Registered: 01/18/15
Posts: 41
Loc: NJ, USA
My P71 SAP had the same type of blistering paint on roof, but it was definitely from rust - no black pimples. I sanded it down to metal, put down some rust preventative primer and skim coated the tiny cancerous craters. Not perfect, but much better than before.

Paint on these cars is piss poor. Once sun does its best on the peel away clear coat, there's little to protect the metal underneath.
_________________________
2003 CVPI SAP, former take home car for county 911 director

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#4112228 - 06/11/21 12:18 PM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Dmblanch]
Dmblanch Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/19
Posts: 293
Loc: Utah
Yeah but the clearcoat was all intact on my roof.

I have the thing completely sanded down now and I put on two coats of phosphoric acid prep wash. it was interesting to watch that stuff go to work because it tended to strip off the few remaining spots of left over primer like a paint stripper and it attacked immediately any rusty spots that got wet on the bare metal. But it did absolutely nothing to the black pimple mounds.
_________________________
1) 2002 White P71 - UT Training vehicle, 89K miles, sold. 2) 2003 B&W P71 - UT Patrol car, 74K miles, sold. 3) 2005 White P71 - WA Fire Chief vehicle, 54K miles, sold.
4) 2011 Black P7B - CA Sheriff vehicle, 79K miles, sold. 5) 2008 White P71 - Idaho sheriff vehicle, 95k miles, outfitted as movie prop rental. 6) 2005 White P71 - UT University police, 74k miles, sold.
7) 2004 Silver P71 - UT Fire Dept., 104K miles, sold. 8) 2004 Toreador Red LX Sport - Want ad find, 111K. 9) 2010 White P7B SAP - UT Police, 106K, sold.
10) 2010 White P7B SAP - UT Police, 104K, sister to #9, sold. 11) 2005 White P71 - ID Police, 115k. 12) $500 2006 White P71 - UT Police beater.

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#4112232 - 06/11/21 03:02 PM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Dmblanch]
AlleyG Offline
Climber

Registered: 04/28/14
Posts: 541
Loc: Raleigh, NC
The clearcoat on our white car is in perfect shape also. It's the only thing on the paint that is perfect, lol!

Al
_________________________
2004 CVPI - 85k miles
1997 T-Bird LX - 85k miles
1994 Supra Turbo - 107k miles
Previous Fords:
1988 T-Bird, 1995 T-Bird, 1996 Cougar

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#4112658 - 06/16/21 04:28 PM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Dmblanch]
Dmblanch Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/19
Posts: 293
Loc: Utah
So, after sanding and grinding and sanding somemore, I got my "roof rot" sport ready for priming. I decided to primer and prime-sand myself, prior to having pro's reshoot the roof with color and clearcoat.

I used the following product, can within a can 2K Primer with an adjustable spray nozzle that supposedly mimics a professional gun. I was not worried about orange peel because it was primer and would get a finish sand before color coat anyway.

Spraymax Primer

DO NOT USE THIS PRODUCT! It is completely boo-boo.

Can holds very little, does not like to be sprayed horizontally, will not spray to empty, the touted "professional" nozzle clogs, sputters and gloops constantly, and it aerosolizes the paint into the air in a foggy mist, sending overspray everywhere but where you want it. It goes on rough and powdery from when sprayed anywhere more than six inches away. Overall, a garbage product. The very worst spray can product I've ever used. This is coming from a guy who rattle cans a helluvalot of small projects. And did I mention that it is $20 a can?

I had to sand it off and gave it to the pros to reshoot with primer themselves.


Edited by Dmblanch (06/16/21 04:30 PM)
_________________________
1) 2002 White P71 - UT Training vehicle, 89K miles, sold. 2) 2003 B&W P71 - UT Patrol car, 74K miles, sold. 3) 2005 White P71 - WA Fire Chief vehicle, 54K miles, sold.
4) 2011 Black P7B - CA Sheriff vehicle, 79K miles, sold. 5) 2008 White P71 - Idaho sheriff vehicle, 95k miles, outfitted as movie prop rental. 6) 2005 White P71 - UT University police, 74k miles, sold.
7) 2004 Silver P71 - UT Fire Dept., 104K miles, sold. 8) 2004 Toreador Red LX Sport - Want ad find, 111K. 9) 2010 White P7B SAP - UT Police, 106K, sold.
10) 2010 White P7B SAP - UT Police, 104K, sister to #9, sold. 11) 2005 White P71 - ID Police, 115k. 12) $500 2006 White P71 - UT Police beater.

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#4112788 - 06/17/21 04:28 PM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Dmblanch]
GM_Guy Offline
Posting Addict

Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18548
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
Thanks for the warning, I was going to buy some of that (clearcoat) to recoat my headlights after I defog 'em as its the only 2k aerosol I can find up here.
_________________________
Box stuff in the Box forum!

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#4112820 - 06/17/21 07:25 PM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Dmblanch]
Dmblanch Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/19
Posts: 293
Loc: Utah
You really need a 2K clear coat to get best results for your kind of job so that you can buff it after you’re done, but based on my experience I cannot come close to recommend anything for the spraymax system. Primer should be the easiest thing to put down.

To tell you the truth I really like rustoleum’s new professional line primer in the tall gray cans at only six dollars a can. Shoots at any angle, drains its bigger than normal can all the way to the bottom, the spray nozzle is easy to control, very little aerosolizing and overspray, blends extremely well with itself making it hard to see the lines of where you have sprayed and where you haven’t.

I did a whole metal deck trailer with it and I loved it. But they don’t make the professional line with self etching primer in green. I think that if you combined the system with some custom spray nozzles that are made for the graffiti industry you could probably get some superb fan patterns.
_________________________
1) 2002 White P71 - UT Training vehicle, 89K miles, sold. 2) 2003 B&W P71 - UT Patrol car, 74K miles, sold. 3) 2005 White P71 - WA Fire Chief vehicle, 54K miles, sold.
4) 2011 Black P7B - CA Sheriff vehicle, 79K miles, sold. 5) 2008 White P71 - Idaho sheriff vehicle, 95k miles, outfitted as movie prop rental. 6) 2005 White P71 - UT University police, 74k miles, sold.
7) 2004 Silver P71 - UT Fire Dept., 104K miles, sold. 8) 2004 Toreador Red LX Sport - Want ad find, 111K. 9) 2010 White P7B SAP - UT Police, 106K, sold.
10) 2010 White P7B SAP - UT Police, 104K, sister to #9, sold. 11) 2005 White P71 - ID Police, 115k. 12) $500 2006 White P71 - UT Police beater.

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#4112844 - 06/17/21 09:45 PM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Dmblanch]
Old_Guy_Stu Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 2297
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Graffiti INDUSTRY? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

You want to be careful with spray-can primers. Not all are compatible with automotive base/clear paints (although they should be) and you don't find out until you shoot color and watch it wrinkle. You'll want to add a sealer over it (which should be compatible with everything) before shooting color.
_________________________

1988 CVLX Formal Roof (Love Boat) POTM July 2019 & Aug 2020, 56K
E-code lights w/ relays, LEDs w/ switchbacks, 15x8 Ansen slots w/ 255/60 BFG's, Kenwood stereo, various hacks.
1988 CVLX (Destroyer) 1998-2001 driven to death 202K
1988 Squire (Chris Craft) 1996-1998 junkyard rescue driven to death 199K

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#4112862 - 06/18/21 12:23 AM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Old_Guy_Stu]
hot__box Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 09/22/15
Posts: 1732
Loc: Bayou State
Originally Posted By Old_Guy_Stu
Graffiti INDUSTRY? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?


Not exactly. A lot of those guys make money painting sanctioned murals, selling art and the like. Not exactly always nefarious or related to property damage. The nozzles that he’s referring to have like, a 6-inch reach and cover real well. They could be used on a standard can of auto primer provided the can has a removable tip. Not sure if they could withstand the viscosity of auto primer, but I don’t see why not.
_________________________
‘94 CVLX
‘99 Cherokee XJ
‘21 F-250
‘82 Oldsmobile
‘03 Silverado
'03 Pro-Line 20'

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#4112884 - 06/18/21 10:55 AM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Dmblanch]
Dmblanch Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/19
Posts: 293
Loc: Utah
You need to read more carefully and get up with the times Stu, your moniker is betraying your out-of-the-loop age.

The graffiti paint industry is huge, with dozens of brands marketing hundreds of different types of specialty colors, cans, and more importantly, a wide range of spray nozzles. Graffiti artists are extremely fussy about their nozzles as much as a regular artist is about his paintbrushes. I was not referring to using graffiti primer only to the nozzles with their specialty spray patterns, which are frequently bought separately from the Cans Ian’s colors


Edited by Dmblanch (06/18/21 10:57 AM)
_________________________
1) 2002 White P71 - UT Training vehicle, 89K miles, sold. 2) 2003 B&W P71 - UT Patrol car, 74K miles, sold. 3) 2005 White P71 - WA Fire Chief vehicle, 54K miles, sold.
4) 2011 Black P7B - CA Sheriff vehicle, 79K miles, sold. 5) 2008 White P71 - Idaho sheriff vehicle, 95k miles, outfitted as movie prop rental. 6) 2005 White P71 - UT University police, 74k miles, sold.
7) 2004 Silver P71 - UT Fire Dept., 104K miles, sold. 8) 2004 Toreador Red LX Sport - Want ad find, 111K. 9) 2010 White P7B SAP - UT Police, 106K, sold.
10) 2010 White P7B SAP - UT Police, 104K, sister to #9, sold. 11) 2005 White P71 - ID Police, 115k. 12) $500 2006 White P71 - UT Police beater.

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#4112896 - 06/18/21 03:35 PM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Dmblanch]
Old_Guy_Stu Offline

Over the Hill

Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 2297
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Mind = blown.
_________________________

1988 CVLX Formal Roof (Love Boat) POTM July 2019 & Aug 2020, 56K
E-code lights w/ relays, LEDs w/ switchbacks, 15x8 Ansen slots w/ 255/60 BFG's, Kenwood stereo, various hacks.
1988 CVLX (Destroyer) 1998-2001 driven to death 202K
1988 Squire (Chris Craft) 1996-1998 junkyard rescue driven to death 199K

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#4112914 - 06/18/21 04:45 PM Re: What is causing this Roof Rot? [Re: Dmblanch]
GM_Guy Offline
Posting Addict

Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 18548
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
_________________________
Box stuff in the Box forum!

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