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#4112952 - 06/18/21 08:40 PM Transmission - Overdrive went out :(
triplej057 Offline
Rookie

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 67
Loc: California
Hi all,
The fun continues, haha!

On the 2009 P71 the overdrive gear has gone out completely as far as I can tell. Checked fluid running hot on level payment after cycling gears - it's full and clean.

If I use the overdrive cancel button the car is drivable because it doesn't try to go into 4th, but it definitely jerks into third and doesn't seem super happy.

I've searched the other posts and the knowledge base and most posts talk about 3rd and 4th going out at the same time - or they are very simple suggestions like checking fluid or very complex like how to rebuild the entire tranny. Before getting too crazy or causing too much anger I figured it usually doesn't hurt to ask on the interwebs.

I'll probably not take this one on myself, and I'll just go to a professional, but I was just wondering if anyone had heard of just the overdrive gear going out, or had some basic opinions on the situation before I start paying through the nose, haha. It's got 140k miles, nothing about rebuilds in the service records although I don't have them all, but I'd imagine it's totally original, and although it doesn't seem totally abused yes it was a cruiser and probably took some hard wear and tear. Also there are no codes on the dash or with a basic code scanner, maybe there would be with a more advanced one but that's where I'm at right now

Thank you, as always,
Dave


Edited by triplej057 (06/18/21 08:44 PM)

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#4112954 - 06/18/21 08:51 PM Re: Transmission - Overdrive went out :( [Re: triplej057]
triplej057 Offline
Rookie

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 67
Loc: California
To add,
Once 4th gear comes around at about 40 mph it just shifts into neutral and the revs go through the roof, as in: nothing is engaged anymore.

At this point using the overdrive cancel button works, and then it'll just jerk back down into 3rd. frown

Thanks!

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#4112968 - 06/18/21 09:28 PM Re: Transmission - Overdrive went out :( [Re: triplej057]
Lance01 Offline
Climber

Registered: 04/02/18
Posts: 520
Loc: Pa
Yes, overdrive has been known to go out on panther cars as well as the trucks who have 4r70w's.

Hopefully what happened is the snap ring that holds the overdrive piston broke which will cause the overdrive band to disengage from the overdrive pin.

There's another retainer that also holds the OD pin inside the piston and that also can break.

If either of these two situations happened it's fixable but you're going to have to drop the valve body.

It's worth a shot. Just buy a new overdrive piston and pin and a new overdrive snap ring. You're also going to need about a case of transmission fluid

A new OD piston is about 13$. A OD snap ring about 3$ and a case of fluid is about 70$ if it's Motorcraft.

The only difficulty once you drop the valve body is aligning the OD pin with the OD band. I will leave a link below on how it's done. It took me about 15 tries to get it when I installed a new OD Sonnax pin and piston to avoid going what you're going through. My transmission only had 55k miles on it and the overdrive pin was already worn.

Anyway if you supply your own parts I would guess a transmission shop would charge probably $200/$300 to fix your OD band if that truly is the only issue.

https://www.raybestospowertrain.com/blog/4r70w-neutrals-on-3-4-shift-overdrive-band-not-applying

https://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=1460017


https://www.f150online.com/forums/transm...broke-pics.html


Edited by Lance01 (06/18/21 09:30 PM)

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#4112972 - 06/18/21 09:43 PM Re: Transmission - Overdrive went out :( [Re: triplej057]
triplej057 Offline
Rookie

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 67
Loc: California
Wow, thanks, that does not look at all intimidating to fix, haha, just kidding!

Forgive my ignorance, I'm sure this has been answered somewhere, but sometimes it's easier to just ask - does the crossmember or the drive shaft have to come out to drop the valve body? I wouldn't think so but clarification never hurts.

It would be great if that's all it was but then working with the local mechanic might be another story, haha - and rightfully so of course there's a liability there, to fix it right, I understand that.

I just don't think I have the equipment to get underneath it like that and have any good chance, it seems like you'd really need a lift.

The "jerking back down into 3rd" seems like maybe it's something else or additional wear, but it does seem fairly drivable besides the OD problem.

Of course most mechanics will want to just swap out the tranny or totally rebuild it, but I will definitely investigate this.

Thank you! Much appreciated,
Dave

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#4112986 - 06/18/21 11:40 PM Re: Transmission - Overdrive went out :( [Re: triplej057]
TheCableGuy Online   content
Over the Hill

Registered: 04/08/19
Posts: 1044
Loc: Far Northwest AZ
Valve body removal is pretty easy. Just drop the pan and you’re already half way there. No need to mess with the crossmember or drive shaft to get to the valve body. Just be careful, take your time, don’t rush, and go get a torque wrench.. those VB bolts are sensitive.
_________________________
2010 P7B 150K. 11K hours. 3.27, RKE, Cruise, Ported stock plenum, JMod, ADTR sway bar, KYB rear shocks. DIY Headlight harness upgrade, with projector retrofit: Mini H1’s.

Previous rides:
2011 Sierra 1500 155K, too many mods to list. (RIP 01-05-2019)
2001 Durango R/T 5.9. 230K. SOLD 5-1-19

They laugh at me because I’m different. I laugh at them because they’re all the same- Heath Ledger


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#4112988 - 06/18/21 11:59 PM Re: Transmission - Overdrive went out :( [Re: triplej057]
TheCableGuy Online   content
Over the Hill

Registered: 04/08/19
Posts: 1044
Loc: Far Northwest AZ
Also, no need for a lift.. Jack stands will work, many people have used them to even pull a trans out. I did the JMod(requires removal of VB) on jack stands. I had a foam pad underneath to help my back and muscles.
_________________________
2010 P7B 150K. 11K hours. 3.27, RKE, Cruise, Ported stock plenum, JMod, ADTR sway bar, KYB rear shocks. DIY Headlight harness upgrade, with projector retrofit: Mini H1’s.

Previous rides:
2011 Sierra 1500 155K, too many mods to list. (RIP 01-05-2019)
2001 Durango R/T 5.9. 230K. SOLD 5-1-19

They laugh at me because I’m different. I laugh at them because they’re all the same- Heath Ledger


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#4112990 - 06/19/21 12:17 AM Re: Transmission - Overdrive went out :( [Re: TheCableGuy]
triplej057 Offline
Rookie

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 67
Loc: California
I really appreciate the replies, from all, even if I have to go to the professionals.

I have ramps but currently no jack stands because we lost our house in a fire last year and I lost all tools and everything frown California!

Of course with anything like that though, maybe you could give me some advice on the difficulty of looking up into the valve body and changing these small parts? That's the worrying part, even if you can get underneath it, that it's so hard to tell what you're looking at, doing anything with it, changing parts out, etc.

It was possible to work with the valve body and tiny transmission parts underneath the car on jack stands? Haha

Thank you,
David

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#4113010 - 06/19/21 12:49 PM Re: Transmission - Overdrive went out :( [Re: triplej057]
Lance01 Offline
Climber

Registered: 04/02/18
Posts: 520
Loc: Pa
I failed to mention you're also going to need 2 gaskets. I say 2 because you might have to open up the valve body to retrieve any broken snap ring fragments.


Anyhow, after reading your post I'm going to recommend 2 options:



1. Take the car to a good transmission shop.


2. Find a group of guys who are familiar with the Jmod and have done it already to help you fix your overdrive servo. Maybe someone on here can help. I'm no longer in California otherwise I wouldn't mind helping.




Lastly, I don't use ramps and never would as they have been known to just collapse. These crown Victoria's are very heavy cars! Get yourself some good jackstands that can handle the weight of a truck. Get at least 6 ton jack stands if you plan on working under your car.


Edited by Lance01 (06/19/21 12:54 PM)

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#4113034 - 06/19/21 04:33 PM Re: Transmission - Overdrive went out :( [Re: triplej057]
triplej057 Offline
Rookie

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 67
Loc: California
Thanks for the replies,
To clarify, if you buy a whole new OD servo you don't need another pin, correct? As in, it comes with it? Below is the one I was looking at, my vehicle is 4R75E 2009 P71 if that matters.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AODE-4R70W-Tran...4.m46890.l49286

Thanks!

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#4113048 - 06/19/21 08:29 PM Re: Transmission - Overdrive went out :( [Re: triplej057]
Lance01 Offline
Climber

Registered: 04/02/18
Posts: 520
Loc: Pa
Yea that's it.

I get my transmission parts from here:

http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/AODE_4R70W_transmission_servo_accumulator_pistons_s/12299.htm



You will need a new snap ring and gaskets as well.

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#4113052 - 06/19/21 09:57 PM Re: Transmission - Overdrive went out :( [Re: triplej057]
triplej057 Offline
Rookie

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 67
Loc: California
One problem I'm finding is that mine is 4R75E - I know there are differences, but are these overdrive parts interchangeable?

Because if I do swap out the entire transmission it seems that you need an '09+ 4R75E, is that correct?

Thanks


Edited by triplej057 (06/19/21 10:01 PM)

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#4113056 - 06/19/21 10:15 PM Re: Transmission - Overdrive went out :( [Re: triplej057]
88grandmarq Offline

4R70W rebuilder
Poobah

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 6846
Loc: Indiana
did OD suddenly stop working? or did it start slipping then eventually stop working?

If OD suddenly stopped working, most likely there is debris in the OD servo regulator valve. Read here - https://www.f150online.com/forums/transm...broke-pics.html
_________________________
2011 P7B - retired Jay county Indiana Sheriffs car
2003 Lincoln Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 09/2011
89 Crown Victoria LX- HPP Box - SOLD 09/2010
88 Grand Marquis LS - The original - Totaled 5/2006

I rebuild AODE/4R70W/4R75E Transmissions, check out my Facebook page for my latest project; https://www.facebook.com/Ford-transmission-repairs-Jmod-348414635312478/

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#4113076 - 06/20/21 10:40 AM Re: Transmission - Overdrive went out :( [Re: 88grandmarq]
triplej057 Offline
Rookie

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 67
Loc: California
It slipped, then stopped working - hard to say when it started but over the course of 2 or 3 days maybe.

Thanks for the reply.

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#4113138 - 06/21/21 12:05 PM Re: Transmission - Overdrive went out :( [Re: triplej057]
88grandmarq Offline

4R70W rebuilder
Poobah

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 6846
Loc: Indiana
Slipping almost always means the OD band had failed. you need to rebuild or replace the transmission.
_________________________
2011 P7B - retired Jay county Indiana Sheriffs car
2003 Lincoln Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 09/2011
89 Crown Victoria LX- HPP Box - SOLD 09/2010
88 Grand Marquis LS - The original - Totaled 5/2006

I rebuild AODE/4R70W/4R75E Transmissions, check out my Facebook page for my latest project; https://www.facebook.com/Ford-transmission-repairs-Jmod-348414635312478/

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#4113164 - 06/21/21 01:15 PM Re: Transmission - Overdrive went out :( [Re: triplej057]
triplej057 Offline
Rookie

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 67
Loc: California
Thanks for the reply,
By "OD band failed" and "rebuild" you are referring to the OD servo and snap ring fix described above in this thread, correct?

Just clarifying, because if it's just that although I would still probably pay a pro to do it, it's not as bad as a true rebuild where you have to drop the whole tranny out.

Thanks

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