Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! registry | CVN on Facebook | tech | news | email login Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure!


Welcome to CVN - Your Panther platform headquarters!


Custom Search


Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#4113864 - 07/01/21 11:54 AM Re: 2011 P71 4.6L 3V swap [Re: Florida]
2004_p71 Offline

no replacement for displacement
Posting Addict

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 15763
Loc: Quebec Canada
I hope so
_________________________


new best time 13.079 @ 105 1.8 60'

Top
Links
#4114068 - 07/03/21 06:23 AM Re: 2011 P71 4.6L 3V swap [Re: 2004_p71]
GoldPanther Offline
BOK contributor
Over the Hill

Registered: 07/16/13
Posts: 2908
Loc: Chitcagoland!
Originally Posted By 2004_p71
Originally Posted By GoldPanther
so if they are canceling the variable timing it will make less than 300 hp, the variable timing is the key to make 300 hp .


variable cam timming gives a broad power band but when you lock the phaser out you still get the top end power as the cam is locked in a retared position.

Yes you are correct, however the car will idle ruff and will be slag at take offs. I wouldn't recommend this for a daily car. the ideal way would be bolting it in the middle but then it will lose performance.
_________________________
03 mgm ultimate edition.
June 2015 Panther of the Month
December 2018 Panther of the Month
Originally Posted By Black_Chrome
Black_Chrome: If only I had a merc...Oh wait, its still sitting out at the farm frown "This holiday season give that special woman in your life something she deserves. Dans External Relay Harness."


Top
#4114162 - 07/04/21 08:24 AM Re: 2011 P71 4.6L 3V swap [Re: Florida]
2004_p71 Offline

no replacement for displacement
Posting Addict

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 15763
Loc: Quebec Canada
totaly agree with you sir smile
_________________________


new best time 13.079 @ 105 1.8 60'

Top
#4114260 - 07/05/21 03:14 PM Re: 2011 P71 4.6L 3V swap [Re: GoldPanther]
dixiebandit69 Offline
5.4 Club
Member

Registered: 01/17/12
Posts: 318
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By GoldPanther
Originally Posted By 2004_p71
Originally Posted By GoldPanther
so if they are canceling the variable timing it will make less than 300 hp, the variable timing is the key to make 300 hp .


variable cam timming gives a broad power band but when you lock the phaser out you still get the top end power as the cam is locked in a retared position.

Yes you are correct, however the car will idle ruff and will be slag at take offs. I wouldn't recommend this for a daily car. the ideal way would be bolting it in the middle but then it will lose performance.


Uh, guys, the phasers can only retard timing, not advance it. When you lock them out, the cams are fully advanced.
_________________________
2007 Grand Marquis LS: 5.4 swap, 9.9:1 compression ratio, Comp XE268s, NPI pistons, PI heads ported by me, Accufab upper plenum, 75mm DBW throttle body, Factory PI intake with Chinese spacers, CVPI dual exhaust, CVPI torque converter, CVPI air-box and zip tube, J-Mod, 3.55 gears, FMS Trac-Loc differential
17" Dorman CVPI steelies, BFG Comp T/A 255/45 R17s

Top
#4114288 - 07/05/21 09:56 PM Re: 2011 P71 4.6L 3V swap [Re: dixiebandit69]
2004_p71 Offline

no replacement for displacement
Posting Addict

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 15763
Loc: Quebec Canada
Originally Posted By dixiebandit69

Uh, guys, the phasers can only retard timing, not advance it. When you lock them out, the cams are fully advanced.



meh fan

My bad , I thought it was the opposite. Still lerning that 3v stuff since I got a 2010 f150 with a 5.4 3V a few month ago.
_________________________


new best time 13.079 @ 105 1.8 60'

Top
#4114538 - 07/07/21 07:25 PM Re: 2011 P71 4.6L 3V swap [Re: Florida]
dixiebandit69 Offline
5.4 Club
Member

Registered: 01/17/12
Posts: 318
Loc: Texas
Oh, I forgot to mention one thing about locking out phasers:

You could lock-out the phasers in the retarded position, but the engine is going to run like cold dog-[censored].

Perhaps you saw someone who did it the wrong way. I think they're made to only go in one way (eliminating the chance of retarding the cam), but I've seen people force things where they don't go many times.
_________________________
2007 Grand Marquis LS: 5.4 swap, 9.9:1 compression ratio, Comp XE268s, NPI pistons, PI heads ported by me, Accufab upper plenum, 75mm DBW throttle body, Factory PI intake with Chinese spacers, CVPI dual exhaust, CVPI torque converter, CVPI air-box and zip tube, J-Mod, 3.55 gears, FMS Trac-Loc differential
17" Dorman CVPI steelies, BFG Comp T/A 255/45 R17s

Top
#4116710 - 07/30/21 09:57 AM Re: 2011 P71 4.6L 3V swap [Re: dixiebandit69]
Florida Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/18/21
Posts: 8
Loc: FL
Originally Posted By dixiebandit69
Oh, I forgot to mention one thing about locking out phasers:

You could lock-out the phasers in the retarded position, but the engine is going to run like cold dog-[censored].

Perhaps you saw someone who did it the wrong way. I think they're made to only go in one way (eliminating the chance of retarding the cam), but I've seen people force things where they don't go many times.


Speaking of cam phasers...
The shop gave up on trying to make the 2V heads fit the 3V block. The compression ratio would be too high for a daily driver, they don't exactly match up, more pain than it's worth.

Now they're using the original 3V heads with VCT, and coming up with a way to wire it to the Crown Vic's computer. Odds are they will end up using "cam adjusters" to lock the cam out, I have heard of Mustang guys using these, presumably they don't just go full retard or advance. As long as the motor makes close to 300 HP as advertised, I will be happy.

A fab shop is getting involved because the motor does not just "drop in" - the front accessories are too close to the radiator. Some custom fitment will be needed. I definitely gave this shop some fun work to deal with, lol.

In other news they discovered this 3V F-150 engine has upgraded pistons and internals when they took it apart. Already doing great considering they're giving me the engine for free. Perhaps down the line a supercharger is in order... bow

Top
#4116736 - 07/30/21 01:30 PM Re: 2011 P71 4.6L 3V swap [Re: Florida]
Danger2manifold Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/19
Posts: 238
Loc: Little Poland, CT
Originally Posted By Florida

Now they're using the original 3V heads with VCT, and coming up with a way to wire it to the Crown Vic's computer. Odds are they will end up using "cam adjusters" to lock the cam out, I have heard of Mustang guys using these, presumably they don't just go full retard or advance. As long as the motor makes close to 300 HP as advertised, I will be happy.



In the immortal words of Robert Downey Jr, "You never go full retard"
_________________________
Current Panther:
1999 Crown Victoria LX - 69,420 miles (nice) as of 1/27/21, Toreador red, 18x8 Anthracite Torq Thrust M's, AEM Dryflow panel filter, custom 2.25" dual exhaust with H-pipe, Magnaflow XL mufflers, Jones 22" long 4" slash cut tips, Kenwood KMM-BT225U head unit, PPI A600/4 4-channel amplifier, PPI i650.1 monoblock amplifier, Pioneer 6x8 2-way speakers, two 12" JBL subs in sealed enclosures, 2/2019 to present

Past Rides:
2003 Buick Regal GS Joseph Abboud edition - as close to a Grand National as I'll probably get, traded in 2/2019
1996 Lincoln Town Car Signature - 1st car ever bought, dubbed "The Emancipator" by friends, rear ended and totalled in 5/2016
2002 Buick Rendezvous CXL - passed to me by the folks, handed down to younger brother in 2/2015

Top
#4116756 - 07/30/21 08:04 PM Re: 2011 P71 4.6L 3V swap [Re: Florida]
dixiebandit69 Offline
5.4 Club
Member

Registered: 01/17/12
Posts: 318
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By Florida

Speaking of cam phasers...
The shop gave up on trying to make the 2V heads fit the 3V block. The compression ratio would be too high for a daily driver, they don't exactly match up, more pain than it's worth.

Now they're using the original 3V heads with VCT, and coming up with a way to wire it to the Crown Vic's computer. Odds are they will end up using "cam adjusters" to lock the cam out, I have heard of Mustang guys using these, presumably they don't just go full retard or advance. As long as the motor makes close to 300 HP as advertised, I will be happy.

A fab shop is getting involved because the motor does not just "drop in" - the front accessories are too close to the radiator. Some custom fitment will be needed. I definitely gave this shop some fun work to deal with, lol.

In other news they discovered this 3V F-150 engine has upgraded pistons and internals when they took it apart. Already doing great considering they're giving me the engine for free. Perhaps down the line a supercharger is in order... bow


I think you will probably be the first person ever to swap a 3V engine into one of these cars.
I can tell you for a fact that some of the stuff on the 3V engine will not work with your factory PCM.

The cams on the 3V are read differently than they are on the 2V engines, but I'm sure it's possible to find a way to make it work (3V engines read from both cams due to the VVT; 2V and even the old 4V engines only read one cam.).
You'd probably have to cut some of the teeth off of one of the cam phasers, leaving only one tooth. And it would have to be in the right position.
_________________________
2007 Grand Marquis LS: 5.4 swap, 9.9:1 compression ratio, Comp XE268s, NPI pistons, PI heads ported by me, Accufab upper plenum, 75mm DBW throttle body, Factory PI intake with Chinese spacers, CVPI dual exhaust, CVPI torque converter, CVPI air-box and zip tube, J-Mod, 3.55 gears, FMS Trac-Loc differential
17" Dorman CVPI steelies, BFG Comp T/A 255/45 R17s

Top
#4116762 - 07/30/21 09:28 PM Re: 2011 P71 4.6L 3V swap [Re: dixiebandit69]
Florida Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/18/21
Posts: 8
Loc: FL
Originally Posted By dixiebandit69
Originally Posted By Florida

Speaking of cam phasers...
The shop gave up on trying to make the 2V heads fit the 3V block. The compression ratio would be too high for a daily driver, they don't exactly match up, more pain than it's worth.

Now they're using the original 3V heads with VCT, and coming up with a way to wire it to the Crown Vic's computer. Odds are they will end up using "cam adjusters" to lock the cam out, I have heard of Mustang guys using these, presumably they don't just go full retard or advance. As long as the motor makes close to 300 HP as advertised, I will be happy.

A fab shop is getting involved because the motor does not just "drop in" - the front accessories are too close to the radiator. Some custom fitment will be needed. I definitely gave this shop some fun work to deal with, lol.

In other news they discovered this 3V F-150 engine has upgraded pistons and internals when they took it apart. Already doing great considering they're giving me the engine for free. Perhaps down the line a supercharger is in order... bow


I think you will probably be the first person ever to swap a 3V engine into one of these cars.
I can tell you for a fact that some of the stuff on the 3V engine will not work with your factory PCM.

The cams on the 3V are read differently than they are on the 2V engines, but I'm sure it's possible to find a way to make it work (3V engines read from both cams due to the VVT; 2V and even the old 4V engines only read one cam.).
You'd probably have to cut some of the teeth off of one of the cam phasers, leaving only one tooth. And it would have to be in the right position.


I think so too, re: being the first idiot to do this swap. I know for certain this shop is wishing they had a 5.4L 2V on hand right now. Either way - it is happening! God speed to them. What simultaneously gives me confidence and anxiety is the shop manager's assurance that he can handle this. "This is no big deal! We'll figure it out". Famous last words...

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Who's Online
2 registered (Armada Master, 1 invisible), 50 Guests and 86 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
bluejay_32 108
Old_Guy_Stu 92
Dmblanch 76
a_d_a_m 52
RF_Overlord 47
GM_Guy 44
Moby_Vic 38
SocalSam 35
Ponyguy 31
Tenevic_P71 31
Member Spotlight
Member Since: 11/13/19
Posts: 377





Copyright 2000-2015 by Crownvic.net and Steve Spaulding. All Rights Reserved.
The photographs, graphics and data contained in this Web site are the properties of the contributors, or Crownvic.net and may not be used without expressed written consent.
Crownvic.net is not affiliated with the Ford motor company.

Happily consuming the fuel saved by Prius owners!