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#4121112 - 09/16/21 08:16 PM 04 LX No start...ugh
DKH Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/26/21
Posts: 13
Loc: WA
So, my car is dead in the water.
Here is the situation:
- Car turns over fine; starter and battery both good
- New fuel pump and new fuel filter
- fuel pump starts with key on (I can clearly hear it starting in the tank)
- no pressure at all at fuel rail
- there is a spark
- replaced fuel pump and PCM relay and checked all fuses, relays, and diodes related to fuel pump and PCM
- No codes being thrown; no check engine light
- Wires to PCM look fine

I'm thinking it could be the camshaft position sensor, but wouldn't that throw a code?

Thanks for any assistance you can offer!

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#4121118 - 09/16/21 08:45 PM Re: 04 LX No start...ugh [Re: DKH]
hkerekes Offline
Member

Registered: 09/19/20
Posts: 155
Loc: NC
unplug the line coming from the fuel filter and turn the key

does fuel come out?

You need to diagnose why you have no fuel pressure first.

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#4121124 - 09/16/21 09:44 PM Re: 04 LX No start...ugh [Re: DKH]
DKH Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/26/21
Posts: 13
Loc: WA
Right. Will do. Thanks!

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#4121128 - 09/16/21 10:12 PM Re: 04 LX No start...ugh [Re: DKH]
SocalSam Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 3030
Loc: SFV, Calif.
Agreed. Take a look at the work you did around the fuel lines. Could be the line is restricted at the filter or pump. More of a longshot, did you splice the fuel pump wires when replacing? If so, check your work.
_________________________
2004 CV LX Sport #2, 121,000 miles -- Current
2008 CVPI Arizona Beige, 121,000 miles, 677 idle hours -- Current
Option Adds: Message Center Instrument Cluster , Re-Key Locks , Passenger Door Lock , Autolamps , Ballistic Panels


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#4121138 - 09/16/21 11:24 PM Re: 04 LX No start...ugh [Re: DKH]
fordoldfart Offline
Climber

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 776
Loc: kansas
Just work backwards until you find fuel. Maybe new pump not good.
You do have fuel in the tank.

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#4121386 - 09/18/21 01:34 PM Re: 04 LX No start...ugh [Re: DKH]
DKH Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/26/21
Posts: 13
Loc: WA
Thanks, SoCalSam and fordoldfart, for the suggestions.
Yes, unfortunately, I did have to splice the pump wires. I have rechecked those but will have another look.

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#4121408 - 09/18/21 04:10 PM Re: 04 LX No start...ugh [Re: DKH]
RF_Overlord Offline

Poobah

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 7769
Loc: MA
Originally Posted By DKH
- no pressure at all at fuel rail
How did you determine this?

Did you replace the fuel pump because of the no-start condition or did the no-start only occur after it was replaced?
_________________________
'03 Mercury Marauder (The Blackbird)
Trilogy Motorsports supercharged #61
Too many mods to list / Driveway Queen

'04 Grand Marquis LS Limited Edition (Spruce Green)
Daily Driver (Thanks, Adam!)

'00 Grand Marquis GS (Silver)
Rotted frame and broken transmission crossmember
Being resurrected...slowly.

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#4121504 - 09/19/21 11:00 AM Re: 04 LX No start...ugh [Re: DKH]
Davidzq Online   happy
Climber

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 636
Loc: Seattle, WA
Agree with all of the above.
Especially the quick test of disconnecting fuel line at filter.

I will also add that the starter engaging proves this is not a PATS issue, as PATS would disable the starter and fuel injectors.


To add to the suggestion of checking relays, you should also check the PCM diode, which supplies power to those relays. Though pump priming indicates it is receiving power, thus relays are operating.

Have you scanned for codes with a high quality scanner capable of reading non-emissions and manufacturer specific codes? There are many codes which generic scanners can not read.


Edited by Davidzq (09/19/21 11:01 AM)
_________________________
David Hensley
Member of Northwest Panthers Car Club

2008 P71, Norsea Blue SAP
-Message Center cluster retrofit
-Towncar Signature L heated power seats
-Long overhead console
-Compustar remote start/security

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#4121580 - 09/20/21 08:17 AM Re: 04 LX No start...ugh [Re: DKH]
Mick73 Offline
n00b

Registered: 02/17/21
Posts: 10
Loc: Lesser Poland
Check injectors fuse (n.19 in box) if one is bad, then you have problem with fuel injector...
I had similar problem, I changed broken injector and OK
_________________________
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2011 CVPI
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#4127600 - 11/12/21 11:31 AM Re: 04 LX No start...ugh [Re: Mick73]
DKH Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/26/21
Posts: 13
Loc: WA
Thanks, but the injectors are new as well. And thanks to ALL of you who have offered advice.

Update: So, after about two months of procrastinating, I finally tested the pump with the fuel hose disconnected from the fuel filter. No fuel came out when cranking.

I pulled the new Bosch pump only to find that the the plastic upper part of the pump that couples to the rubber hose through which the fuel is pumped was completely broken off. So, therein lies the problem! (I hope...)

I ordered a Motorcraft direct replacement pump/sender assembly and I am praying this does the job once and for all. I decided to go with original equipment after seeing the construction of this Bosch pump which was VERY sketchy - cheap parts, thin wiring, very flimsy. Bosch is normally a trustworthy brand. But this pump was really poorly made.

I will get back to you once the new pump is installed. Fingers crossed....

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#4127608 - 11/12/21 12:18 PM Re: 04 LX No start...ugh [Re: Mick73]
DKH Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/26/21
Posts: 13
Loc: WA
Originally Posted By Mick73
Check injectors fuse (n.19 in box) if one is bad, then you have problem with fuel injector...
I had similar problem, I changed broken injector and OK


Sorry, I misread this the first time. Yes, I also checked this fuse and all fuses and relays remotely related to fuel and ignition.

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#4127634 - 11/12/21 06:20 PM Re: 04 LX No start...ugh [Re: DKH]
SocalSam Offline
Over the Hill

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 3030
Loc: SFV, Calif.
Waiting for the good news...
_________________________
2004 CV LX Sport #2, 121,000 miles -- Current
2008 CVPI Arizona Beige, 121,000 miles, 677 idle hours -- Current
Option Adds: Message Center Instrument Cluster , Re-Key Locks , Passenger Door Lock , Autolamps , Ballistic Panels


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#4128596 - 11/23/21 06:59 PM Re: 04 LX No start...ugh [Re: DKH]
DKH Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/26/21
Posts: 13
Loc: WA
Update: Success! The Motorcraft pump sender assembly works great. The car is peppier than ever. Thanks again to all those who offered advice!

Lessons learned:
- I would avoid both the Delphi and the Bosch replacement pumps (links below). The Delphi died after 20K miles and the Bosch was built very, very poorly (not to mention that it had a broken part). In comparison, the Motorcraft OEM assembly is clearly sturdier, thicker wiring, thicker metal and plastic parts. The Bosch, pump, by the way, does not even fit my car properly, contrary to what the Amazon search filter says.

- When trouble shooting a pump, take the advice of hkerekes and detach the fuel line at the filter to confirm gas is being pumped. This led me to the source of my problem…which was a defective *new* pump!

<<<AVOID>>>

Bosch: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0027Z7KT0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Delphi (used to make good parts, perhaps quality is slipping?):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MK8X3UO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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